00:00:00.000 - 00:00:27.440

[no audio] [INAUDIBLE] Roll to the left. Now roll back.

00:00:27.440 - 00:00:34.920

Beautiful. OK. [INAUDIBLE] That's right, all right.

00:00:34.920 - 00:00:42.400

OK, the back row, bridge stop. Man the jacks. OK. Middle row.

00:00:42.400 - 00:00:48.880

I have an easier. Perfect. [INAUDIBLE] Good.

00:00:48.880 - 00:01:29.880

OK. [INAUDIBLE] (inaudible) [INAUDIBLE]

00:01:29.880 - 00:01:57.880

[INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE] Then the Texas Magazine Convention produces this packet, and it's a free stewardship of the rights of the Nellis

00:01:57.880 - 00:02:06.380

and the past and the city. Boy, it's an excellent package. I believe that Charles will be going over some of the materials in this packet.

00:02:06.380 - 00:02:25.820

Also on the table is 1982 Art of Art for Stewardship Materials. A lot of the materials at the Texas Baptist Convention Mass are absolutely free. Some of them are many things that you

00:02:25.820 - 00:02:36.820

can use in your own church. And I just got a sample of some of the materials that I'll put up over there. One of them is about wheels.

00:02:36.820 - 00:02:50.080

Another one is God's will, my will. Just a lot of different materials. Then the last thing I'll put over the table, the Vantage Premises business book,

00:02:50.080 - 00:03:01.880

and this is managing the business affairs of the church. GPO wrote the chapter here about the IRS. Walter Vandy's first man, he's wrote the chapter about the insurance.

00:03:01.880 - 00:03:21.600

This book is available through Arlington for probably $13 or so. Okay, Brother Charles, why don't you come down [INAUDIBLE]

00:03:21.600 - 00:03:49.600

[ Inaudible ] I noticed on the program that I got through the mail, announced this meeting, and I'm up here, can you deal with it?

00:03:49.600 - 00:03:57.600

I'm not an expert, people say, my people said if there's an expert here, they will meet me up here tomorrow morning. What are you talking about?

00:03:57.600 - 00:04:32.600

(audience laughing) I'll meet with you tomorrow morning, period. [INAUDIBLE] everybody interested maybe in calling and assessing me about IRS, I suppose, and church-related matters. For I don't know why, but my friend asked me to come back and spoke with [INAUDIBLE] and I thought it'd be a poor enough job that he surely wouldn't ask me again, but he did.

00:04:32.600 - 00:05:09.600

I think he must have been out in the bottle of air, maybe he just thought I could do it again. That reminds me of a joke I heard the other day and I tell them every day I tell jokes. They never come out right. I'm going to tell you this immediately. This guy went into the barber shop and got up in the barber chair and told the barber, he said, "I want you to give me a haircut and I want it done my way." He said, "Well, I want you to shingle this side pretty high, very close. I want you to leave this side down where it comes a little bit below the ear.

00:05:09.600 - 00:05:26.600

And then if you would, on the back over here, cut this pretty short also. I want you to shingle short on this side. And then I would like for you right up here to just take out this part about the size of a dog, just as close to the gout as you can."

00:05:26.600 - 00:05:36.100

And he said, before you finish up, make sure that you leave a piece of hair hanging down on this side that I can pull all the way over and touch the chin.

00:05:36.100 - 00:05:46.100

The barber said, well, I can't give you a hair like that. He said, well, I don't know why not. You did last time. [LAUGHTER]

00:05:46.100 - 00:06:09.100

So maybe because I'm here last year, I would share several things with you. It's impossible to share with you all in this packet. There's some 30, 35 pieces of material in there.

00:06:09.100 - 00:06:33.100

And sometimes it's a real decision to know what you ought to share. By way of background, first let me share some things about the stewardship. I don't think that should necessarily be left to the budget chair or finance chair. You want to have to take the pastor on to take the lead in that because I'm convinced

00:06:33.100 - 00:06:43.780

that what the pastor believes will show in the church. of the church, the finance church, or anyone else. I think the pastor ought to take the lead in that

00:06:43.780 - 00:06:58.940

because I'm convinced that what the pastor believes will show in the church. That especially is true in the area of stewardship. Another statement that I'm convinced of

00:06:58.940 - 00:07:10.560

is that God is the owner, that man is the steward, and therefore man is responsible. that's true. My congregation,

00:07:10.560 - 00:07:28.080

I am spirit leader, that congregation that I am in a responsible God so that my people understand what their response was. I think in our preaching, in our motivation,

00:07:28.080 - 00:07:54.160

we can do with our members. We establish the fundamental groundwork that needs to be laid in regard to a good stewardship. I think a good program as far as people are concerned or even church actually comes about from a development attitude. It just doesn't happen every year. You may have a good year,

00:07:54.160 - 00:08:22.160

presentation of the budget, preparing the budget, subscribing the budget, but we just We just need to develop an attitude in our churches as to what can this church accomplish in the area of stewardship. And that takes time to grow that kind of church. I want to share some things now with you that's in the packet. I don't know how many of you have those.

00:08:22.160 - 00:08:51.160

In the last meeting long ago, you get one and you're getting one. Inside that packet you will find these green sheets entitled budget development, or PREA. Budget development number one, budget development number two, budget development number three. And you can find in one of those three

00:08:51.160 - 00:09:09.320

a budget process that your church will use. I suppose that any church will use any one of the three. But I believe he's going to pass some of these out to you so you can take them with you.

00:09:09.320 - 00:09:22.640

We're not going to take a lot of time on it. But I do want to share some things with you that I feel are important. Budget development, number one, is a line item process.

00:09:22.640 - 00:09:38.720

Now most of us are familiar with that term. We know what a line item process is. This is really using the skills and techniques from the old father-father church five,

00:09:38.720 - 00:10:09.720

which came about in 19, that origination in 1956, And I'm sure many of you have been there, as I have, several times. Back in the late 50s and early 60s, I found that it was one of the god-signals for me to have a church. And in this particular time of budget, it's divided up into three areas.

00:10:09.720 - 00:10:45.720

I'll just share those with you, but mainly just to give you a stimulus of what you think that you need in your church. The first here is that you make an analysis of the giving record of your congregation. That's an enlightening thing. Sometimes it's a frightening thing to see the giving record of all of your congregation. And the appropriate corresponding piece to that, that you find in this packet, is called, "This is the record."

00:10:45.720 - 00:11:07.720

What you do, you do a study of the giving record of your church. It can only be as good, really, as your record consistent happens to be. And then after you have determined what the record is, the next step is to determine the hidden potential of your contradiction.

00:11:07.720 - 00:11:34.220

And you do that in several ways. One is you can find out through several sources what the average per capita income is in your local area. Take that and there will be an equation table in there to take care of children and members

00:11:34.220 - 00:11:46.720

that are not wage earners. You'll find all this in the Bureau. And then just multiply and multiply what capital giving is and take a tenth of that and you find out your potential income.

00:11:46.720 - 00:12:11.220

Now, you may live in a unique church location, which is more full of men of average. If so, you need to compensate for that. But it'll give you a picture, it'll give your people a picture of what they could possibly do. That little part of the material is entitled "This We Are Making."

00:12:11.220 - 00:12:39.220

You'll find that on the very cover of the park, number one. The third thing is preparing a proposed budget using the line item budget concept and suggesting them to your people in your publicity, in your preaching, in whatever areas of promotion you want to do this we propose.

00:12:39.220 - 00:12:57.220

saying, "Look at this, this is what we budget to be proposed are." I'm sure if we look at the record, we see what we think we're able to do, this in my opinion is what we're proposed to do. So, so much for piece number one.

00:12:57.220 - 00:13:21.220

Let's move to piece number two for just a moment. This piece is an excellent piece. You know, budgeting has changed tremendously. If you want to look at the introduction on page 2, I want to share just briefly with you what it says here concerning budgeting.

00:13:21.220 - 00:13:40.220

It says, "When budgeting first appeared on the American scene, as far as churches were concerned, It was the duty of the people to personally subscribe from the members of the yellow mountain to carry on the ministries of the church. This was done by pledging.

00:13:40.220 - 00:14:01.700

And these pledges were paid sometimes in corn, sometimes in livestock, sometimes in chicken, sometimes in certain parts of our country in tobacco, someone said even in whiskey. I don't know if that's true or not, but it might be. So we went along with that for some time.

00:14:01.700 - 00:14:14.180

And then later, about 20 years later, we found that the budgeting system was moved to the idea of a ready queue. Everybody made a review.

00:14:14.180 - 00:14:25.060

They paid for that view. They didn't pay for the other. Usually that was paid ahead of time. And then later, we inferred, this century,

00:14:25.060 - 00:14:58.060

And that caught fire and it continued well in the 30s and 40s and into the 50s. And then in the 50s and perhaps a little later in some places, we came to the place where aware that you came up with the ministry action budget is what you have in your hand, piece number two.

00:14:58.060 - 00:15:12.260

This is a good proposal, and many churches have not heard of it, even today. But there are several advantages to this kind of program. And I would share two or three of those

00:15:12.260 - 00:15:35.100

for my notable extreme. It offers church committees a way to plan and carry out your chores. Here's a committee that can sit down and they look at the ministries that the church is proposing to do. And they can say, "These ministries will cost X number of dollars."

00:15:35.100 - 00:16:21.100

Here is another ministry, and it will cost so many dollars. So what you actually are doing, you're getting away from a bunch of figures as a primary source into a bunch of ministries that the community needs and you feel that your church ought to be needing. Now, to me, there's something kind of cold and impersonal about just a budget. But many of our people, they need to be heard. What's the budget for a ministry? $175,000? How much does that translate into each month? How much per week are we going to have to pay? are we going to have to deal?

00:16:21.100 - 00:16:39.100

Rather than seeing their budget in terms of a ministry out here that they feel is beneficial to the community and to the region of souls and the development of other Christians into good students, that's just a more personal kind of relationship

00:16:39.100 - 00:16:53.100

that I do want that is much, much more attractive. So this is a good program. It has some of the major outlines on the front page. But I didn't want to run over time, so I'm going to pass that out.

00:16:53.100 - 00:17:13.100

Now let's come to number three. Number three is Ministry Action Budgeting. And it's number two, except it says "simplify." Now, this particular type of budget can be used by any size church.

00:17:13.100 - 00:17:45.100

It can be used by a large church, it can be used by a smaller church. Probably its greatest advantage is for a smaller church or a church that has not been used to having any kind of budget. It is not as defamed as either of the other two. to consequently and many times meet a church that is not participating under a budget through a simplified plan like this,

00:17:45.100 - 00:18:12.100

and they will readily accept that because it's not so complicated. It's easy sometimes for pastors and education directors, Administrators and churches here have business administrators. Sometimes people lose opportunity to go to two meetings, budgeted things that we may understand that it may be cost to have three minutes of it.

00:18:12.100 - 00:18:41.100

Once you lose it, you have just time for moving that budget. [inaudible] Now, let's talk a little bit, part of my subject was on not just preparing a budget, and Carol was in there, anybody can take and study and come up with a budget.

00:18:41.100 - 00:18:56.100

[INAUDIBLE] Let's talk a little bit about describing the budget, how to present the budget, things like that. Maybe that will be even more helpful to you

00:18:56.100 - 00:19:14.100

than some of those things that I could talk about. One time there was a guy that was doing it for himself, doing everything his way, and he didn't want So he decided he wanted to build a house.

00:19:14.100 - 00:19:36.100

And he looked around and tried to find somebody that could agree to build a house exactly as I told him. Well, he finally found a builder and said, "Okay, whatever you say, I'll build it." He just gave the next number and called it Oliver's House. So he took an envelope and threw out some very abbreviated plans that he gave to this guy and said, "This is what I want."

00:19:36.100 - 00:19:59.100

He left and went off on a trip. He came back and the house was pretty well bought. He walked down into the basement and he looked around and he said, "I heard something exactly like you said, and I am going to give it to you." He walked up on the next floor, around the door, and he did look at it.

00:19:59.100 - 00:20:14.100

And he said, "I'm going to leave you." Well, a three-story house down in the basement, so he began to look around to see if he could go up to the third floor. He heard about the house and he had to go up to the third floor to find the stairs.

00:20:14.100 - 00:20:25.100

So he called the builder inside and asked him, he said, "Where are the stairs?" He said, "They're not there." He said, "They're not here." He wouldn't be stupid enough to build a house on these stairs, the third floor.

00:20:25.100 - 00:20:39.100

He said, "Well, the envelope that you gave me did not specify any stairs. And he said, "You want to build just exactly like you planned it. You didn't want me to argue, you didn't want me to do anything, but just build around like you said." And he said, "That's what I've done."

00:20:39.100 - 00:21:05.280

Well, what I'm saying at this point is that you have to have some plan in regards to subscribing and reaching any budget that your people are going to like. And present good choices. And I want to share with you a few things about the plan and how you might reach that budget.

00:21:05.280 - 00:21:19.900

I cannot share with you everything that Crossland would need to do, but I will just say a few things about some of the features. Let me begin with the cards--

00:21:19.900 - 00:21:39.220

subscription card, pledge card, budget card, intention card, whatever you want to call it. It doesn't make much difference what you call it. Somebody has to stick with some of those names as far as their concern. We did something different this year. I have always used a subscription card

00:21:39.220 - 00:21:57.780

ever since 1949. On that card we always have the person's name, the Sunday School Department address, whether or not there were church members,

00:21:57.780 - 00:22:10.900

and numbers on that card identifying them according to a file that we had set up over in the people room. We had various things from time to time,

00:22:10.900 - 00:22:18.580

and we always had a place for them to sign it, and a place for them to indicate whether they were a retiree, or whether they would be a retiree,

00:22:18.580 - 00:22:32.580

or whether they weren't a fortified, and that they estimated that their kids would be so much the weaker, the more angry. Now there's some people that have a real problem.

00:22:32.580 - 00:22:45.640

They will say, I have one man now. Been a Methodist most of his life, I don't think I ever knew it. But he was no sir, no ma'am.

00:22:45.640 - 00:22:56.220

I don't believe in such a thing. I don't know why I don't need to leave, but you know how much time I need. I should have told you something.

00:22:56.220 - 00:23:09.980

But anyway, he was happy to come find me. (mumbles) But I used a lot in those years with various types of results.

00:23:09.980 - 00:23:18.980

This year, we decided, we talked about it last year, but this year we decided we were gonna do something different, and it's not different. Some of it may be for some of us.

00:23:18.980 - 00:23:42.980

And then I repeat it, it says this, "By tithing and commitment to God, in recognition of God's ownership in response to my love for Jesus Christ, in obedience to the scriptural teachings, with the Lord's help I will do my best to the best of my ability to fulfill my economic work in the agriculture."

00:23:42.980 - 00:24:04.980

I will do my best to invest in it and function for my economic work in the agriculture. No place is a problem. Well, I don't know what's going to come of it, but I do know that we increased our number of tie-offers by better than 28% the first year. At least that's what they told me.

00:24:04.980 - 00:24:25.980

We have the largest number of people indicating that they will tie than we've ever had in 13 years out of 10. Now how much they're going to give, we'll know come December. But so far, through January and February, and the first Sunday of March, there's 10

00:24:25.980 - 00:24:35.980

Sundays for his election. And our people are thrilled about that. So we made it a reality. And you can get it done the other way.

00:24:35.980 - 00:24:49.980

That's fine. But I wanted to share that with you because we felt this year we were in a row. Some of my foster friends, this association, others, told me they didn't think the same thing. I think y'all do. It's kind of hard.

00:24:49.980 - 00:25:00.980

You know, I think now. I was thinking, I was getting older. But that's what I do. So that's one of the things that you might do.

00:25:00.980 - 00:25:16.300

I am hard to call sometimes. It has some degree of success in solidifying the person's intentions because that's hard to change.

00:25:16.300 - 00:25:30.700

You may never look at it after you get involved in an organized movement. Whatever makes you feel good, that's good. I'm sure everybody's concerned.

00:25:30.700 - 00:25:39.380

I'd like to speak also a little bit about inflows. I tried to find some inflows today, and I'm about to. For a long time, everybody used it.

00:25:39.380 - 00:25:51.460

Sure, I used to name them for the box with 52 in it. And we gave everybody a box. Less budget, fun, or care of it than we gave one every Sunday.

00:25:51.460 - 00:26:05.940

(audience laughing) We'd get 'em undated so we could I can go as far as possible. But that's not very encouraging for a person

00:26:05.940 - 00:26:20.060

to get their first ball of sleep. And they kind of gauge their guilt by the size of it. You can't even put a dollar bill in there without pulling it up.

00:26:20.060 - 00:26:29.040

You certainly can't put one of those big, long checks in there without pulling it up. So what it really calls for is... [laughter]

00:26:29.040 - 00:26:39.040

[laughter] [laughter] [laughter] This here blow is factory.

00:26:39.040 - 00:26:47.040

Because Donald Ripship and his mom, they even glue it on the end of the pin so you can just take it like that

00:26:47.040 - 00:27:19.980

and get to it. It's check size. Now, I know that sounds I'm going to give you a little bit of background on the fundraising business.

00:27:19.980 - 00:27:57.140

[ Laughter ] And I'm going to tell you a story about a guy named Bill. He's a big guy. He's a big, The two best envelopes you can use is pale blue and pale pink. Blue and pink. Pale blue and pink. And the other two are the best.

00:27:57.140 - 00:28:07.140

The two best in blue you can use is pale blue and pale pink. Blue and pink. Pale blue and pink. And it has been tried and tested and they say invariably out of the same people, under

00:28:07.140 - 00:28:11.140

the same circumstances, you'll get more money in return time after time after time if you use the pink or blue. So, the best in blue is pale blue and pale pink. Now, the blue is a little bit more expensive.

00:28:11.140 - 00:28:15.140

The blue is a little bit more expensive. The blue is a little bit more expensive. The blue is a little bit more expensive. The blue is a little bit more expensive.

00:28:15.140 - 00:28:19.140

The blue is a little bit more expensive. The blue is a little bit more expensive. The blue is a little bit more expensive. The blue is a little bit more expensive.

00:28:19.140 - 00:28:27.140

The blue is a little bit more expensive. The blue is a little bit more expensive. I'm going to turn time after time after time and you're going to be impeached completely.

00:28:27.140 - 00:28:40.640

Now, please don't ask me why, but I don't know. You know I have a good guy here. This is just a blessing. But we're ambitious, reaching our budget,

00:28:40.640 - 00:28:57.140

developing our people. And it's a good part of the deal, so I think we ought to at least consider those thoughts. So, I'm going to be a little bit more specific. I'm going to be a little bit more specific.

00:28:57.140 - 00:29:14.140

What is the advantage or is there any advantage? For a long time I couldn't get one of my churches that I had to agree to pay all these and give them out. We used to pick them up in boxes when I first came to Gideon County. Because that's been their habit since they were little ones.

00:29:14.140 - 00:29:29.140

And in boxes. As they didn't want to spend the money. I said, "Well, I think when I haven't been here in five years, you mean you want to send me a box of books?"

00:29:29.140 - 00:29:37.140

I said, "Let's try it." They said, "No, we're not going to do that. It won't cost all that much." So I figured out what it would cost for us to send every person that was a member of

00:29:37.140 - 00:29:56.140

our church and our school a box of books this size for one year. And I said, "I need it to pay for itself, and I'll just personally keep records on it for a year and see." What I did, I took the names of those that had not given us anything, maybe a dollar

00:29:56.140 - 00:30:26.140

or a piece, because we keep records, detail records, of the giving of our money. And so I kept records. The first month they received these, we received $382 from people that we had not given anything to, from people that we had not received anything from in over three years.

00:30:26.140 - 00:30:46.140

And by the time we had reached the, I think it was nearly the sixth month, five weeks or something, we had already paid for what the environmental service had caused. Coming off a computer system in Florida, mailing them to our people, all those people, we had paid for them, total cost, by sending them in for all, from people that we had not been

00:30:46.140 - 00:31:08.140

When the year was finally concluded and I shocked our budget committee and our deacons when I showed them my figures, not my name, but my figures, and I said we paid for the envelope service which cost us 800 and something dollars that year and sent one to every boy, girl, man, woman in our church that was either a Sun School member or a church member.

00:31:08.140 - 00:31:37.140

And when it was all said and done, we paid for all of that and it came out to over $1,100. [BLANK_AUDIO] I have perhaps a dozen families right now, some of them are shunned, some of them work on Sunday, that nurse works on Sunday, she already forgave her, that's a Sunday off,

00:31:37.140 - 00:32:00.140

and she never fails, monthly, to mail her kind in, but until we started doing that, I cannot ever remember receiving anything from her, and now she's been doing it for She's made her input service all by herself. And we would never thought that we've not done something like that.

00:32:00.140 - 00:32:15.140

Okay, one other thing, my 30 minutes is all up. One other thing, let me share with you just briefly. We use people to give testimonies. All through the year.

00:32:15.140 - 00:32:27.140

For a long time I let them give them in. October, November, December. Good afternoon here. We're trying to get our budget voted off and get it subscribed

00:32:27.140 - 00:32:43.140

so we can start working again. But now I have a young man who's going to give his testimony Sunday week about Ty. He's a 19-year-old just out of high school. And we're not doing anything about the budget.

00:32:43.140 - 00:33:31.780

We're already--I think we'll be 13 weeks. But it's good for our people. Now I made a mistake for a long time. I went and got the deacon and so and so, and I went and got the Sun School superintendent, and I went and got the chairman of the budget committee, and some people that I knew that had been tired, and everybody else that had been tired for years and years and years. to get some 17 year old girl or you get some young couple that you know had a hard time. you want to go beyond their time. It'll shake up some people that are arguing about the

00:33:31.780 - 00:33:41.780

So be selective in who you get. Get that little likely person. Get that person that your people love. We have a young lady in our church that's been a member of our church ever since she

00:33:41.780 - 00:33:45.780

was seven. She's been coming to our church ever since she was two. She's 19 years old now. Her mother and daddy have never come to our church except for a special occasion to see

00:33:45.780 - 00:33:49.780

her perform in something or other. She's probably missed this time since Sunday's church service. She's been coming to our church ever since she was seven. She's been coming to our church ever since she was two.

00:33:49.780 - 00:33:53.780

She's been coming to our church ever since she was seven. She's been coming to our church ever since she was two. She's been coming to our church ever since she was seven. She's been coming to our church ever since she was seven.

00:33:53.780 - 00:34:04.060

have never come to our church except for a special occasion to see her for a bar or something. She's probably missed this time since Sunday school in the 13 years that I've been there.

00:34:04.060 - 00:34:14.020

And I can count on one hand, everybody loves her. She's an outgoing person. This year, the first time, I thought about just asking her to give her a testimony.

00:34:14.020 - 00:34:37.260

You have a full-time priesthood, a prisoner of trouble, and she got free. Our people were very open-minded and know Now, some of the things that I've shared with you tonight, I know that they sound kind of trite, but this is not the kind of program that I spent time doing last year.

00:34:37.260 - 00:35:02.260

But I wanted to give you some things that I found that worked for me in my church more than anything. Some insignificant things that just maybe you could find in your church and if you use two of them, it would be a success in your church and reach your church and help it reach it. I hope you will be able to. God, you can be a great help to us. I thank you. Thank you, sir.

00:35:04.260 - 00:35:28.680

[INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE] - Okay, okay, thank you. Let's have about five minutes, then we'll get back.

00:35:28.680 - 00:35:38.000

- Charles, good evening, good evening. I appreciate you all taking the time out to come. What we're trying to do is help you with your church budget, and if you're like most of us,

00:35:38.000 - 00:35:50.240

you need not only some help, but you need some help with one at home as well. I appreciate the things that Charles was trying to say to us tonight about the development

00:35:50.240 - 00:36:03.760

and promotion of our church budget. And so I listened to him talk. I remember the early days of Minister Jean and I when we went to Palm Beach and Boulder.

00:36:03.760 - 00:36:21.080

We went to Douglas, Arizona and began Spanish-speaking mission work in that city. And the Lord blessed everything we did, succeeded. And it's not because of us, it's because of him.

00:36:21.080 - 00:36:31.400

I might think I had a little bit to do with it, but I'm one of these people who's goal-oriented. I don't accomplish anything if I don't set some goals for myself.

00:36:31.400 - 00:36:40.680

So we went there with goals in mind, and the Lord blessed us. We met most of them. I just got my language school, and my Spanish

00:36:40.680 - 00:36:49.900

wasn't too good. It ain't nothing to write home about. I can't communicate. In those days, one of the men in our mission

00:36:49.900 - 00:36:57.420

would visit with me. And I would do all the small talk. I'd get it started. But then when we really got down to the nitty gritty

00:36:57.420 - 00:37:05.980

of winning someone for the Lord, on the slant of the Planet of Salvation, I turned to Manuel. One evening, we visited in the hall,

00:37:05.980 - 00:37:22.260

and Manuel wanted to talk with the Lord. And when we got to the part of the league, I said, "Manuel, my Spanish is really not too good. But I thought as I heard you talking with them, quote,

00:37:22.260 - 00:37:32.260

Malachi 3.10. He said, yeah, I don't know. And I said, but, Manuel, Malachi 3.10 is not part of the plan of salvation.

00:37:32.260 - 00:37:43.260

At least it's not part of the broken road. It's not one of the four spiritual laws. Manuel said, I know that. You know that.

00:37:43.260 - 00:37:56.020

Lay off it. (laughing) He said, "I believe with all of my heart "that if a man really accepts Christ as his personal savior,

00:37:56.020 - 00:38:05.740

"he will be honest with him, "all of his possessions, money included." And he said, "They might just as well know "from the beginning that this is what Christians do,

00:38:05.740 - 00:38:13.180

"and this is the way we finance our ministry." Well, I don't have to tell you I'm going to get me some big-on. Big on one side, little good on the other.

00:38:13.180 - 00:38:17.180

I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on.

00:38:17.180 - 00:38:21.180

I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on.

00:38:21.180 - 00:38:25.180

I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on.

00:38:25.180 - 00:38:35.180

I'm going to get me some big-on. I'm going to get me some big-on. And what I wanted to do with our association budget, I'm going to get me some big-armed men.

00:38:35.180 - 00:38:44.180

[LAUGHTER] Pink on one side, blue on the other. [LAUGHTER] I appreciate you all coming.

00:38:44.180 - 00:38:53.180

I appreciate you so very much for what you've done to pull this together. And you just have done a wonderful job. Thank you.

00:38:53.180 - 00:39:13.180

He's been a finance chairman of the First Baptist Church in Dallas. He's been a finance chairman of El Paso, the First Baptist Church there. He's been a finance chairman here at High Park Baptist Church. He works with IRS, but he won't be looking over your shoulder.

00:39:13.180 - 00:39:31.180

He's here to help us, and one of his, I would say, hobbies is to really help churches with tax problems. people all over the southern edge of the region that stop Gene's address and occasionally drop Gene the line on his daily duties.

00:39:31.180 - 00:39:41.180

And rely on some of his experience. And all of it is unofficial, but Gene helps. He sends a lot of ministers to the tax problems and churches too.

00:39:41.180 - 00:39:52.900

So Gene, come share with us, and then we'll have lots of time for questions later. Thank you. Well, I'm glad to see you all here.

00:39:52.900 - 00:40:10.180

I was particularly glad to hear Brother Stewart's presentation. As Dan mentioned, I was the chairman of our finance committee at IHR for about four years. And that position has another position called the Budget

00:40:10.180 - 00:40:20.420

Preparation Committee. You kind of get stuck twice when you're chairman of the finance committee. So I can really relate to what you were saying.

00:40:20.420 - 00:40:30.420

I would have liked to have heard more. Now I'm on the Justice Committee, I guess, on my personality. So, you know, we're jumping the fire and the fire.

00:40:30.420 - 00:40:43.940

And I was particularly interested to meet with Brother Stewart. I have a secretary named Denise, who's been my secretary for three years.

00:40:43.940 - 00:40:58.220

And Denise is-- we're all-- well, I'm in a very small office, and I arrest on the field officer, which means if you have a tax dispute with a [INAUDIBLE]

00:40:58.220 - 00:41:09.180

and you don't like what he tells you, you have an opportunity to come through and appeal. And that's what I did with Bob. Well, we have a very small office.

00:41:09.180 - 00:41:22.660

There's only four of us. And the secretary's name's Denise. And all of us, three of us, attend church regularly. We have a Presbyterian and a Christian and a Baptist.

00:41:22.660 - 00:41:34.380

Denise is the only one that doesn't go to church. But Brother Stewart baptized a little girl about four months ago. And I've been working on Denise real good.

00:41:34.380 - 00:41:46.660

She's a sweet gal, and she's a good secretary. And I think we're going to be successful. I keep working on it. So I was particularly pleased to meet

00:41:46.660 - 00:41:57.620

what we're doing tonight. Denise came to work last week, just really down to the mouth of my face. She was just preparing for income tax.

00:41:57.620 - 00:42:08.540

(audience laughing) And she told me, she said, she was just getting ready for the tax, which would make me feel profane.

00:42:08.540 - 00:42:26.540

She wanted to know what she could do to prevent that from happening. Well, I suggested, I said, "Well, I bet Brother Stewart over in Kenyatta, "he has a good place, he has some contributions that would really do a lot for me to get by." [laughter]

00:42:26.540 - 00:42:42.540

So, you know, she kept saying, "Well, I need to borrow some money." As she gave the deductions, I said, "Oh, that's not very good, some church contributions." I didn't even mention pie tarts, beautiful, but I said that because I'm a little out of breath with this.

00:42:42.540 - 00:43:01.540

Anyway, I was kind of sorry that you'd see this. Here it says, "G. Hill, tax expert." That's not, you know, an expert, you've got to break down the preachers, break down the words, tell us what the Greek is

00:43:01.540 - 00:43:34.540

and Hebrew background is, and you know the background I hate to be called a tax expert for that reason alone. The second reason is, you all probably don't know, and I'm going to give you a little inside secret now to IRS workers, but we have a tax expert list of repairs.

00:43:34.540 - 00:43:46.540

Unfortunately, it's not a consummary list. If you're on the tax expert list, you're not an expert in our country. [LAUGHTER]

00:43:46.540 - 00:43:58.540

And it may be the person who happens to be on the list and prepares your return and signs it. Then you have a greater potential after your return is selected for all of them.

00:43:58.540 - 00:44:56.540

So I didn't like to be called the tax expert. [ Inaudible ] I have some subjects that I want to cover with you. I'm going to kind of let you guide in the direction you'd like to have me go in because

00:44:56.540 - 00:45:15.540

I know some of your problems, but not all. Since Brother Stewart started us out on contributions, let's talk about the contribution record. Because IRS is just as interested in that record as you, the pastor, is interested in that record.

00:45:15.540 - 00:45:30.160

Frankly, when I first started with the IRS, we primarily looked at, and we were going to check the man's contributions. We primarily asked him to bring in his checks and receipts. And we'd come through and add them up,

00:45:30.160 - 00:45:42.080

and that's the way it was. Well, things have changed in the last 21 years. The Baptist Church has got into a lot of businesses. I don't want to say businesses.

00:45:42.080 - 00:46:00.120

They've got a lot of activities going, especially churches like Hyde Park. I checked the Hyde Park Baptist Church doesn't mean anything anymore. Ways Behind Sufferings, I see lots of ladies cashing checks at Hyde Park Baptist Church.

00:46:00.120 - 00:46:20.600

We have a daycare, lots of folks right there checked out at Hyde Park Baptist Church. We have summer camps, checks are written out at Hyde Park Baptist Church. None of those things are deductible. So we don't use checks very often anymore to substantiate contributions.

00:46:20.600 - 00:46:41.600

We use that contribution record kept by the church. So it means it puts a little more responsibility, I feel like, on the church for the accuracy of that contribution record. So let's talk about what should be carried. What you should be carrying.

00:46:41.600 - 00:46:51.600

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