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>> It's running great. >> Okay, now we're not rolling. >> Yes, you are. >> Here we are.

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>> Yeah, I'm going to leave it on ten seconds. >> Say, "Yes, you are." >> Dini Parish, we're interviewing Ruth Bailey Helm, WASP, Class 43W2. We're in the studios of KCTF at Baylor University.

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It is November 12, 1999. Ruth Daly Helm - My name is Ruth Daly Helm and I was born in Grapevin, Texas in 1916. I grew up in a small rural town where everybody knew everybody else and everybody took care of everybody else.

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My family was Baptist and I grew up as a child going to Sunday school and church. The church was a very important part of our lives. When I was nine years old, I became a Christian. I committed my life to Christ and my life has been a life of miracles.

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When I was a child, our family was very close, but I was particularly close to my father. He had an automobile agency, Chevrolet agency in town, but he also had some farms and ranches. Every morning he'd get up early and go out to the ranch and check on everything. I would crawl out of bed and go with him.

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I learned to, we had an old Model T car and then in those days to get to different places you had to open gates. So when I could just barely reach the pedals, he would get out and open the gate and let me drive that old Ford through the gate.

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So I grew up loving cars and when I was, I must have been twelve or thirteen, nineteen and twenty-eight, he was selling a lot of cars to farmers because those were good times. And they'd say, "Well, my wife doesn't know how to drive." And he said, "Well, Ruth will teach them how to drive."

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So they used to say if they could see a car coming down the road and it didn't look like it had a driver, then it was me, and they'd get out of the way. So that was my early experience. We had the usual family structure.

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My mother stayed home and took care of everything. My father even came home to lunch a lot of times. We called it dinner then. What I remember about high school, I guess when I got into high school, I learned to

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play tennis and that was my favorite sport was out on the tennis court. We'd usually start as soon as school was out and end our games when it got too dark to see the balls. When I was 11 years old, an old barnstormer had a forced landing near our town and he

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to the motor company to borrow some tools and equipment from my father. So he let him use his tools and equipment, and when he got the plane repaired, he said he didn't have any money, but he'd give him a free ride to pay for his services. My father came home and told us about it.

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My mother didn't want him to go, so when I knew he wasn't going, I began to be the one to get the free ride. So finally that afternoon, my father took me out to the field, and I got in that plane and we took off.

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I looked down and I saw those little houses, and I said, "Oh boy, this is for me. Someday I'm going to fly." How old were you, Ruth? I was eleven or twelve.

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I think I was about twelve. So then in my junior year when they began to discuss where I'd go to college, I had a cousin who was coming here to Baylor and she wanted them to send me to Baylor. With all the wisdom of a seventeen-year-old, I said, "I don't want to go to college.

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I have this literature from two flying schools. One was in Tulsa and one was in San Antonio. I just want to learn how to fly, so I don't want to go to college." They said, "Well, you go to college and get your degree and then you can learn how to

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fly." So I said, "All right." So I started Baylor in the summer of 1934. I decided to come to summer school because I was from a very small town and I had to

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get acclimated to the college. We decided the summer school. But just a month before I was ready to leave for college, my father was killed in an automobile accident.

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So that changed really all of my plans as far as college was concerned because I felt like I needed to get a business degree. So I finished Bay Lind three years and went home. Let me back up for just a second and ask you a little bit about the hometown you grew up.

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Who were your heroes, your role models? Did you want to be like somebody else when you grew up? Not particularly. Did you have a teacher that, who inspired you when you were young?

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I don't know. My father I guess was more my inspiration than anything. I mostly I wanted to please him. Anything he wanted me to do was what I wanted to do.

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I'm sorry I just didn't have. No, that's okay. How big was this town? Oh, about eleven hundred maybe.

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And what were your interests in high school? My interest in high school was math, history. I was very good at math and I loved history. So those were my two favorite subjects, I think.

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Was that unusual for a girl to like math, to be good at math? I don't know. I guess it was because most people didn't like it. So that was kind of natural for me for business, so I took a lot of accounting.

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I really think I got that from my father, too. When you left your town to come to Baylor, did you come by yourself? Did you come on a bus? Did you wave goodbye at the—

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I came in a car. I had a car when I was at Baylor. Not because we were wealthy or anything, but because I went home nearly every other weekend. And it was what, about 130 miles.

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And because of the traumatic time that our family was going through about that time, because of the loss of my father. Were you the oldest? No, I was the middle.

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You were the middle child? But for some reason, my older sister was married and my older brother had gone to the University of Texas a couple of years and dropped out. So I was, I don't know, I felt a sense of responsibility I guess.

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I can't put my finger on it now, but I just felt like I had to do something. I had to be somebody. For your father? For your family?

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Yes, for the family. And you majored in business. Was that unusual for a woman to major in business? Oh yes.

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It was. But my attitude was different to what you have today. I worked with men, even if they were working for me. And I approached them with that attitude.

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And I think that makes all the difference in the world as to your success. I mean you have to be equipped, but by the same token, you can get an awful lot of help if you go about it in the right way. Let's stop.

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Can somebody stop for a second? Let's get you some water. I'll change places with Mom. We're sorry.

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She got to coughing, so we just switched. Okay. But the water's here, and I thought you needed to get some water. It's a big graduating place because we were World War I babies.

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[Laughter] When I tell people that we're rolling, I was like, "You are?" [Laughter] Yes, we are.

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Well, what do you want me to start with? Talk about your siblings, your brothers and sisters. There were five in our family and my older sister was much older than I was. It seemed to me that she was married from the time I was aware of, just in junior high,

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maybe in finishing elementary school. My brother, who was just older than I was, went to Texas University for a couple of years, but he decided he didn't like college, so he took up ranching. I was a middle child, and I had two younger brothers.

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My brother, just younger than I, was very close. Did you live in town? We lived in town, right at the edge of town. We had our home and we had a pasture back of our house where my father would bring horses

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in from the ranch occasionally. later to become my private flying field. We were just a typical family, I think. We went to church on Sundays.

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We did things together. We went to Grandmother's on Thanksgiving, and Christmas we spent with families. We were very close.

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Both my father and my mother's family lived in Grapeland. We just— How large was Grapeland? About eleven or twelve hundred, maybe a thousand.

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It was very small. And your school, was your school in town? Was it a community school? It was a community school.

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They bused the children in from the – there used to be a lot of small schools around. Just about the time I started to – what they call junior high now – they began to bus the students from all the communities around. I was telling Nancy my favorite subjects in high school.

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One was math and the other was history. I was pretty good at math, so I enjoyed that. Did you do sports? Were you into sports?

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I was into tennis. I loved to play tennis. It started as soon as school was out and played until it was too dark to see the balls. They didn't have lighted tennis courts then.

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They were all clay courts, you know. But I loved to play tennis. Is there one teacher that is outstanding to you? Do you remember any teacher that impressed you?

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I had several teachers that impressed me. Our English teacher, Grammer, taught us Grammer. It was almost a fetish with her. I, even today when I hear somebody make a grammatical error, I think Miss Opal would

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not approve of that. Because we really were drilled. And I guess that's what it takes. Did you grow up knowing where you were going to college?

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Or did you decide? I had a cousin in Baylor and my mother had a cousin who was somehow connected with recruiting for Baylor. And I'd heard of Baylor all my life, I guess, all I remember.

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Even though my brother went to the University of Texas, I knew all the time I was going to Baylor. I just knew that this was where I would go. So when you graduated from high school, what happened before you came to Baylor?

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Well, of course, I think we had prepared the year before. Your junior year, you know where you're going when you finish college. That was what I was telling O'Hallegill about when they said, "You can go to Baylor." I said, "I don't want to go to college.

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I want to learn how to fly." And here's some flying literature from two different flying schools, one in Tulsa and one in San Antonio. And that was just about the limit of my world at that time.

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They said, "No, go to college, get your degree, and then when you finish that you can learn how to fly." So when I got my degree and went home, I said, "Okay, here's my degree. Now I can learn how to fly."

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They said, "No, that wasn't the deal. When you go get your degree and you earn your own money, you can learn how to fly." I didn't have any encouragement from my family, from my mother of course. They never told me I couldn't, but I wasn't encouraged.

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So after I'd been working about a year, I got in my car, went over to the Tyler Airport, which was about sixty miles, and I found an instructor and I said, "I want to learn how I want to get a private license, how much will it cost me?" And he said, "About $360."

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And I said, "Well, see, when I can come over and have lessons, how will I pay you?" And we were discussing how we could work that out. He looked at me, I guess I looked younger than I was, and he said, "You know, it's bad you're not in college."

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And I said, "I've been to college." He said, "You have?" He said, "Go down to Tyler Junior College and enroll in my CPT class. It'll cost you $25, and when you get through, you'll have your private license."

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So that's one of my miracles. So I took his course, CPT course, finished it, had my private license. Did you move to Tyler? No, I arranged where I could go over and spend a couple of nights.

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They just accommodated me in every way they could. I got my ground school at night and flew on Saturdays and sometimes Sunday afternoons. How many girls were in the CPT? Just one in my class.

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And of course that was a requirement. He needed a girl. That's why he said it was too bad I wasn't in college. But he found the right one.

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But anyway, then I joined the flying club and that was at Palestine. That's about 25 miles from where I live. I was the only one in the club that had a license and the plane was getting pretty rough treatment.

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So I said to the airport manager, I said, "You know, I wish I had my own airplane." And he said, "Well, I'll be on the lookout for one." So he called me one day and he said, "I've found a plane over at Kilgore. up and I'll fly you over there."

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So we flew over to Kilgore and there was this beautiful little white and blue Veronica Chief and it was side by side and it had a wheel instead of a stick. Oh it was a beautiful little airplane and they wanted $1,500 for it. And I didn't have $1,500, so I went home and I said, "You know, I need $1,500."

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And I wondered what I was going to do with it, and I said, "I'll buy an airplane." Well, no money available from the family. So I went down and talked to the banker, and I said, "I want to borrow $1,500." And he said, "What are you going to do with it?"

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And I said, "I'm going to buy an airplane." And you know he let me have it. They didn't even lend money on cars in 1939. And he let me have $1,500.

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I went and bought my little airplane and flew it back to Palestine. You know, the late afternoons I'd go up and fly about 30 or 40 minutes. I thought, "I'm wasting an awful lot of time." Drive it back and forth to the airport.

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So we had a pasture behind our house where we kept some horses occasionally. I walked that pasture and I thought prevailing wind is south and that was the wrong way. I walked it and there was an old dead tree out to one side and I thought now if I can go down on the ground before I see that little tree out there I can hang out here.

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I went to the airport and got on a plane and I came back and I landed and took off. From then on I got a T-Hanger built, the mobile dealer furnished me gas, got aviation gas for me and sent me a barrel. So then I could just walk out and take off.

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afternoons I could fly to Dallas or to Houston, drink a Coke, go back home. I just began to spend all my spare time and all my spare money flying. So that's 1939, '40. In 1941, Cochran, I had a telegram from Cochran.

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I was a member of the 99s and she asked all the 99s in Texas to meet her at the Baker Hotel in Dallas on December 15, 1941. And she was recruiting women to go to England to fly for the British. The British were desperate for pilots and so she was recruiting women.

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But you had to have 500 hours and I didn't have it and some heavier aircraft time than I had. So I didn't qualify for that. Well December 15th, though, was eight days after Pearl Harbor.

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So when we got there, we asked Cochran about flying for our own country. And she said no. She had been assured that they did not need women and they did not want them. And so I went back home and kept flying.

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But the fun part of flying back then was all the universities were having a CPT program. So up at SMU they had a mustang field, just a section of land that they had mowed some runways in. I used to fly up there.

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Of course, they were college kids. I still felt like I was college age. If you had a chance to drink a Coke down in Houston, they had an Augsburg refill. Even Waco had, Baylor had CPT programs as far as I think.

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I'm almost past it. And of course I flew all over, Austin, San Antonio. I even flew down to Harlingen, down the Rio Grande Valley to visit some friends. Like I said, I spent all my spare time and all my spare money flying.

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I found out I could do without a new dress and a new pair of shoes if I couldn't fly. But when Cochran told us there was no way, you know, I just went back. Of course, flying was limited then. I couldn't fly to Houston.

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A hundred and fifty miles of the coast was barred after the war started. But I don't remember any particular problems about getting gas, aviation gas. Everything was changed, though, of course. My brother went into the service.

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What do you remember about Pearl Harbor? I remember Pearl Harbor because my mother was fasting friends in Harlington. On December the 6th, when we closed up the business, my younger brother and I got in the car and drove all night long to Harlingen.

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We were going down to pick her up. We got in there about, we were visiting the minister and his wife, by the way. We got in there Sunday morning about 5 o'clock or 6 and they were getting up so we got in in their beds.

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Somebody came in about 11 o'clock and woke me up and said, "The Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor." And I said, "Oh no." I said, "Maybe the Philippines, but not Pearl Harbor."

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And they said, "Yes, they bombed Pearl Harbor." So of course that electrified everybody just like you, everybody knows where they were and what was happening. Monday morning we got up and came back to Grapevin, but it was just a week after that

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that I met Cochran in Dallas at the Baker Hotel. How many girls were there? How many girls met with you? I imagine there were about twenty because as far as I know she had sent these telegrams

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to all the ninety-nines. The 99 meetings I went to, there were just about 15, 20, maybe 25 women around Texas who flew then. And I'm not sure how many had their own airplanes.

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But um. And then she did go on to take those girls down? Yes, she did. But in the middle of 1942, when the need for pilots in this country, you know, when they

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thought they'd need about 30,000, they needed 100,000, they asked Cochran to come back from England and put her program that she had proposed two or three years before into effect where she said, "In case of an emergency, we can train women to do flying jobs and release men for combat."

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And they called her and asked her to come back. So I think I got another telegram from Cochran about, I'm going to say about August of '42, me she was setting up the training command and asked me to come to Fort Worth for an interview. Well in 1942 I was an association of young people's leader for the Baptist

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churches in our association. And on November 11th, in fact, 1942, I was at the Baptist Convention, Texas Baptist Convention. And I went down to downtown Fort Worth and interviewed with Cochran. I had to have a physical and she qualified me on the spot.

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She asked me if I could be in Houston on November the 15th with the first class. And I said, "No way, that's four days and I have an airplane to sell." Of course, the automobile business was shut down because all production of cars had stopped. So I went home and made arrangements to sell my airplane.

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On December 15th, I reported to Houston, to the first class, I mean the second class. The first class, they just gathered in the homes in Houston. But by the time we got to Houston, they had reserved a whole, what we called tourist court And we had roommates and suite mates in each of the cottages.

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So then— Kelly: How many were there? There were about fifty-nine, I think, in my class. We of course, they had a breakfast place set up at the airport where they'd pick us up

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early in the morning in cab trucks with benches down the side, you know, and take us out to the airport. We would start our day with breakfast and then we would march from the breakfast place was on the north side of the field and all the planes and Brown School was on the south

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side. So we marched for breakfast, we marched down to the flight line. You're doing great Ruth. We know about it.

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I lived there when we came back. About his interest. Did your brother, they're not rolling, did your brother, was he involved? You know, it was family.

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So we had ground school. We were separated into flights. We had morning flights and we had afternoon flights. The morning flight, we'd do their flying in the morning and their ground school in the

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afternoon and vice versa. And of course we had all the courses. We had Morse code, we had weather, we had navigation, we had a link trainer for instrument flying.

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And they started us on the PTs, which were heavier horsepower than any of us had ever flown. A PT-19 is what we started, the Fairchild. We worked six days a week.

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We had Sundays off. I had one of my best friends had been a pastor's wife in Grapeland and they had taken a church in Houston. So every Sunday I got to go to their church and they all prayed for me.

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I was scared to death the whole time that I was going to wash out. They prayed me through training. And of course Houston was unpredictable as far as weather was concerned. The fog rolled in in the morning and sometimes you'd sit all day and not fly.

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I was the only one from Texas in my class and they all laughed at everything I said. They tell me I still have a Texas accent because I visit back here so much. Anyway, they just ruined one word for me. After lunch we could walk, we didn't have to march, we could walk back to the flight

00:35:58.920 - 00:36:18.980

line and we had to go through the administration building there to Houston Municipal Airport. That was where we were trained. We'd always stop and pick up a candy bar or something. One day we were on our way to the flight line and it looked like it was just going to start

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pouring rain any minute. I turned around and said, "You all better hurry. It's fixing the rain." And they just hooped and hollered and said, "How does it fix the rain?"

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And they just ruined that word for me. It was years before I could use it again. But I'd heard it all my life. I didn't know how to say anything else.

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I guess it's going to start to rain, but that didn't sound right. But anyway, we had civilian pilots, trainers, and the school was run by a civilian corporation. And my flight instructor was from Nacogdoches in East Texas, and he told me I'd do okay, but I was always scared to death when I had to take that ride with the Army pilot, because

00:37:31.600 - 00:37:50.860

that was the test time. But I was an expert navigator. And also, I have to tell you this, because we went out to Augsbury Field one time to shoot landings, spot landings.

00:37:52.060 - 00:38:11.200

And they said, "Okay, we want you on the ground on the numbers down here." So I didn't realize it, but from my little field, every landing I ever shot was a spot landing. And so boy, I hit that spot every time.

00:38:12.300 - 00:38:39.280

And when it was all over, they said, "Margaret did the best." And I said to my instructor, I said, "I thought I hit that every time." He said, "Yeah, but that's an accident. You're supposed to land short and then long and then work your way down to the spot landing."

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So I didn't do it right. I used to have guys that would try to fly into my little field and none of them ever landed. But I knew it.

00:38:53.840 - 00:39:07.700

See, I'd walked it. I knew it. So it was good training. I was also an expert navigator because one of the first flights I ever took in my own

00:39:08.120 - 00:39:32.480

brand new little airplane, not brand new but second hand, but my plane, I got lost. I had driven from Dallas, I was going to Fort Worth I think, and I had driven that for years. But I took off and I was flying and I looked over and I saw, "There's a little town over there.

00:39:32.500 - 00:39:45.180

I wonder what that is." I don't remember the road ever going through there. So I just flew over and took a look at the water tower and there was something. I thought, "Okay, now I know where I am.

00:39:45.740 - 00:39:54.980

I'll head to Fort Worth." And I was on course again and I looked over and there was another little town. I don't remember that. I think I lost it.

00:39:56.080 - 00:40:16.100

Well I got lost and all of a sudden I looked at my gas gauge and I realized that I had wasted a lot of gas checking out little towns. So I sat there in my plane and I drew a line from where I was to the nearest airport, which wasn't Fort Worth, it was Grand Prairie.

00:40:17.280 - 00:40:34.980

And I headed for Grand Prairie. So from that day on, when I drew a line on the map, I never got off of it. So I was good at two things. I could shoot spot landings, I could navigate.

00:40:37.460 - 00:40:58.120

So I finished the course and they told us there were five different fair groups, I think. There was one in Wilmington, one in Dallas, one in Long Beach, one in Romulus. I guess there were just four. I wanted Dallas so badly.

00:40:59.940 - 00:41:28.220

Sure enough, I managed to be assigned to Dallas. Let's back up, Ruth, and tell me about graduation. By the time the third class got to Houston, they decided the weather was not suitable for the flying program.

00:41:29.460 - 00:41:54.060

And the basic sweet water became available, so they began to transfer the classes from Houston to Sweetwater. I think the third class took their primary at Houston and then flew those planes out to Sweetwater.

00:41:54.620 - 00:42:28.800

And then the fourth class, anyway the classes as they progressed. And when my place finished in May, we took the AT-6s that were flown out to Sweetwater, or the ATs, and we got our wings in Sweetwater. And I remember the girls marched for us as we were presented our wings.

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And I have a picture of Cochran painting my wings on. And the thing about it was when I went in, we took an oath of an officer. And I was second class. The second class.

00:42:46.780 - 00:43:08.700

I wasn't second class. I was in the second class. But when the first class graduated in April, they said, "No, you will not be commissioned." And Secretary Warr Stimson had said, "No."

00:43:08.700 - 00:43:47.980

And see, all this time we thought we were going to be commissioned second lieutenants. And he said, "The law says when he has finished his training, he will be commissioned." And the first class graduated, this was in April, and there were no wings and no commission. And Cochran went to Ellington Field and had wings made up special that had a W1 on them

00:43:49.220 - 00:44:12.680

on the shield, where the shield had been, and a scroll over the top that said 319th, which was a detachment that trained us. And she bought the wings and she pinned them on the girls of the first class. And so that's when we realized that we would not be commissioned.

00:44:14.180 - 00:44:40.600

But up until that point we thought we would. So civil service paid, we became employees of civil service attached to the Army. So when I got to Sweetwater, Cochran of course had the wings made up with the W2s on them. So we were presented those wings.

00:44:42.200 - 00:45:01.640

My mother and I drove out to Sweetwater. I took my car. when we had a ten-day furlough and two of my classmates and I decided that we'd go to Mexico City.

00:45:03.400 - 00:45:28.380

So we drove my mother to Arlington and left her there and the three of us flew down to Mexico City to spend our furlough where you could get all the sugar you wanted and all the good stuff that we didn't have. And we had a wonderful time.

00:45:29.880 - 00:45:44.120

We were adopted by some American airline pilots because one of the girls in our class had been a stewardess. She was a trained nurse. In those days you had to be a nurse to be an airline stewardess.

00:45:44.800 - 00:46:11.580

She had told us about these American airline pilots, so we met them and they showed us Mexico City and we had a wonderful time. In June of 1943, I reported to the 5th Air Group in Dallas. What day did you graduate?

00:46:14.420 - 00:46:34.980

I don't remember. It was late May because I reported to Dallas on the 14th of June. And how many girls had washed out? About ten I think out of the fifty-nine, forty-something graduated.

00:46:35.090 - 00:46:59.440

It's in the roster. I'd have to look at it to tell you exactly. But I would say one at least was ill and joined a later class and graduated. But we had a pretty good washout rate.

00:47:00.860 - 00:47:11.900

And you had to have two hundred hours when I went in. So all of us were pretty – How many hours did you get in training? I don't remember.

00:47:12.200 - 00:47:32.280

I imagine about a hundred and fifty because when I started this log book, which is – I I started at Dallas, I had 400 hours. So I had about 250 when I went in. I imagine about 150, how many did you get?

00:47:32.480 - 00:47:39.980

Two-ten. Two-ten. But we had seven months. We had seven months.

00:47:40.860 - 00:48:03.120

I think 150 would be pretty accurate. Okay, tell us about your assignment. I loved being at Dallas and the Ferryman Division was a great place to be because it was less military of all the bases.

00:48:03.950 - 00:48:36.020

You know, the Air Transport Command, they always was manned by old airline pilots really because they ran military air transport and they were responsible for all the movement of the airplanes. They called the Air Transport Command the Army of Terrified Civilians.

00:48:39.260 - 00:48:56.920

But I loved Dallas, it was a wonderful place to be at. We were accepted by the time I got there. See they had had a contingent of WAFs first, the Women's Auxiliary Firing Pilots, and they were our CEOs.

00:48:57.260 - 00:49:31.680

I mean the chain of command was set up before we got there. And the first class had a lot of problems when the first class from Houston arrived in Dallas, but by the time we got there most of the animosities and jealousies, there was a lot of the WAFs, they were going to be the only ones I guess who flew.

00:49:33.020 - 00:49:54.680

But by the time I got to Dallas everything had smoothed out and we were welcomed and accepted both by the other women who were there. Where did you live? We had our own barracks.

00:49:55.000 - 00:50:19.020

We had a barracks, just a wash barracks. We were the 601st Squadron. Downstairs was the ready room, the offices, all the bathing facilities. Upstairs we each had our own room, private room.

00:50:21.200 - 00:50:45.880

And of course, like I said, all the facilities were downstairs, showers and everything. But we were very comfortable. Of course, they were just like any other barracks, very bare necessities, but I was home. Where did you eat?

00:50:46.840 - 00:51:32.020

We ate at the Officer's Club and we were members of the Officer's Club and we ate there. Our procedure, our squadron was set up just like the men's. We had a CO, operations officer, and the orders were called from base operations to our operations. If they needed five pilots that were qualified in PTs or whatever, then the operations officer

00:51:32.020 - 00:52:00.460

would call. We reported to the headquarters operations. They cut our orders and then we were sent wherever we were supposed to go. From Dallas we picked up planes and factories in Oklahoma and of course Texas and Kansas

00:52:01.200 - 00:52:26.040

and PT-13s out of Wichita. Tell us about your first assignment. My first flight, I remember, was in PT-13. We picked up at Wichita and took to a base in Florida.

00:52:27.320 - 00:52:59.600

We were the first women that they had seen at some of these places, so a lot of them we got our pictures made. We got a lot of publicity on base newspapers, but we didn't get any, as far as civilian was concerned, we were the best kept secret of World War II because Cochrane was very,

00:52:59.760 - 00:53:21.620

that was a no-no. You never talked to anybody about what you did or where you were going. But the first trips that we made, we had a flight leader. And then as we progressed, it was a matter of precaution, I guess.

00:53:22.580 - 00:53:46.320

Now some of the people when they got to Dallas had to have rechecks on different aircraft, but I don't ever remember that I had to be rechecked because of the qualifications I had from my training. And we flew, like I said, the PT-13s the summer of 1943.

00:53:47.060 - 00:54:05.260

We flew those open cockpit things all the way to California. And you get up to ten thousand feet to clear the mountains and you'd freeze to death. You had on a flight suit, you know, the old olive drip. And we didn't have uniforms, you know.

00:54:05.460 - 00:54:38.320

We just wore what the guys wore with a patch on the sleeve. It was pretty much a ragtag sort of thing. But we put on flight suits and landed in Tucson at 110 on the runway. you shed your flight suit until you could get back in the plane and start again.

00:54:40.140 - 00:54:56.860

I think my face looked like leather before the summer was over. But by the end of summer, we were flying AT-6s out of North American's building there in Dallas. So that was nice.

00:54:57.740 - 00:55:27.720

Of course, everybody loved the AT-6 from training. Then we did also pick up the Cessna's up at Wichita, the Bamboo Bomber, and the Beechcraft's, the AT-7's, the AT-11's, took those to training bases in Houston, I mean in South Texas. And these were all brand new airplanes, right?

00:55:28.270 - 00:55:46.540

I beg your pardon? Brand new airplanes. Brand new airplanes. Later on I flew some war rears, but in those days, for the first year, they were all brand new, right off the factory line.

00:55:47.960 - 00:56:15.240

I explained to somebody, "You know, when they produce an airplane, to get it where it's going, somebody's got to fly it, and that's why they needed us. You can't ship it or drive it down the highway." So that was our mission, was to take the planes from the factories to the training fields.

00:56:15.300 - 00:56:29.420

Sometimes were there male pilots? Oh yes, uh-huh. They were. At first, I think the first, all of the PTs I flew, I think were all women.

00:56:31.300 - 00:56:55.260

But later on when we began to fly the AT-6s, it wasn't unusual to be on the same orbit with men. And there again though, most of those were going to training bases. Occasionally we'd have one bill for the British that we would take up to New York, to New

00:56:55.260 - 00:57:22.860

Jersey really, and you might be on orders with men then. But they were, it was nice to be on orders with men sometimes because when we had to they'd say, "Well, you know, we could have dinner together," or "We could meet you for dinner."

00:57:23.900 - 00:57:43.880

But I think I ought to tell a little bit about our procedure. The first thing we did, the first thing was they called the orders to the squadron. The squadron assigned the pilots. We went to the operations office to pick up our orders.

00:57:44.900 - 00:58:14.900

And those orders had the airplane and where we were going. And we had a qualification card that had all of the planes that we were qualified to fly. We carried that with us at all times. We had an ID card that allowed us to say that we could write our own transportation ticket

00:58:15.640 - 00:58:35.800

back. We had our transportation booklet where we wrote out the request for an airline ticket. We had our parachutes. Each parachute was fitted for you and you signed for it.

00:58:41.600 - 00:59:07.180

When we stopped for the night, we had to send a telegram back to Dallas saying where we were. So those were things that you always had with you. So when you would go to a hotel room, you would have to lug your parachute with you?

00:59:07.970 - 00:59:18.620

Oh yes. Well, I don't think of the hotel. I think we could leave them. See the stops we made, they were usually manned.

00:59:18.780 - 00:59:45.100

They had their own line crews that took care of us. And I think we left our parachutes in the airplane until we got to our destination. Then you had your parachute bag too that you packed your parachute. Now as long as we were flying the training planes, we had a B-4 bag where we could, because

00:59:45.100 - 01:00:09.580

But you never knew how long it was going to take you to get a PT from Kansas to California because of the weather conditions and certain conditions you didn't fly those planes. So you could pack for a week if you wanted to. When you started flying the fighters, they didn't have any baggage compartments, you

01:00:09.580 - 01:00:29.040

know. And actually, there was no place for a bag. So what we did, we had an accordion briefcase that we carried at all times. It had our papers in it, our qualification cards and our aircraft papers.

01:00:29.410 - 01:00:50.220

When you picked up an airplane, you signed for it. We were charged with that airplane until somebody signed that paper and said they had received it. So you were responsible for that aircraft.

01:00:51.020 - 01:01:14.760

We kind of called it, we bought one and we sold one. So those were the papers. We had our orders, we had our transportation books, we had our whatever charts we needed. So we learned to pack these little accordion briefcases and you could raise the seat.

01:01:16.060 - 01:01:40.820

I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but this is part of the procedure. You could raise the seat on the P-51 to where you could slide that briefcase underneath then that was your baggage that you packed. Then we had a purse that we could pack pretty well too with other things.

01:01:41.540 - 01:02:07.220

But anyway, in the fall of 1943, they offered us at Dallas, they offered us a choice of of pursuit or heavier aircraft if we wanted flying. And of course I chose pursuit, but it was still a couple of three months before I got to pursuit school.

01:02:07.620 - 01:02:30.000

I'm going to have to stop. There's my qualification. Here's my identification card. Looks like a report card.

01:02:30.500 - 01:02:46.220

Yeah, that's a... Here's my Officer's Club card. My church card. Oh, I'm hung up.

01:02:52.400 - 01:03:00.640

That's my card from my church. Here's my... [laughs] You didn't know I had all this.

01:03:00.840 - 01:03:27.040

No. Here's my physical record. I had a box full of stuff. I told Nancy, "This is what I had when I went to South America after the war, down

01:03:27.140 - 01:03:36.820

to Brazil." Can you deliver those airplanes? I don't know. I think even the Dallas I think even the Dallas News had some news.

01:03:39.040 - 01:04:34.420

News. Where is that? I don't remember what paper that was in, to tell you the truth. Oh, here's the same picture in the Dallas News of that photo I showed you. And that – oh, and they had – here's the CO says – that's in the same paper.

01:04:44.660 - 01:05:00.080

I had a buffet supper at the Arnor's. Did you keep getting wasps from each class when they graduated? Oh yeah, yes. This is from the Houston paper.

01:05:00.260 - 01:05:19.720

This is when the first class graduated, in case you don't have a head. First class, that is class ahead of mine. I think that's it. I think that's all these I've got.

01:05:23.310 - 01:05:50.240

Did you march with this class? Did you march in review when they graduated? I think we did, but I'm not positive. Tell us what you did, Ruth.

01:05:51.820 - 01:06:15.080

Is there anything you can think of? the war I kept playing. How did you get from Dallas to wherever you were going? I went back to Grapeland and back to my business and family business.

01:06:17.960 - 01:06:31.880

How were things different when you went back than when you left? These were very slow as far as business was concerned because the war was still on, see, in '44. Actually, when was the war?

01:06:32.080 - 01:06:55.240

'45. So things were pretty quiet, I'd say, after having spent two years of continual travel, Not knowing where you would sleep tomorrow night, where you would be today or tomorrow. And while you were gone, what happened?

01:06:56.000 - 01:07:23.160

How did the business survive? Well it survived just like everything else did. It was, well I had managed to find a very efficient, honest manager. And he had taken over, so when I went back, my brother was still in the service corps,

01:07:24.540 - 01:07:52.940

so I just sort of marked time until he got home. And when he took over and production began again, of course we had some wonderful years right after the war because there was tremendous demand for automobiles. I mean they were sold before you got them and you usually had a waiting list.

01:07:53.840 - 01:08:15.860

When you went back, did you go back, did you live with your mom? Yes, I did. In fact, I lived with my mother. My mother and I lived together until I married. In fact, she lived with us. But during the war, flying back and forth to California, we'd get together in the barracks

01:08:15.940 - 01:08:30.100

and say, "After the war, we'll do so-and-so. After the war, we'll do so-and-so." So there were two or three of us that said, "After the war, wouldn't it be nice to have a fly-in guest ranch?"

01:08:30.100 - 01:08:56.960

So in 1946, one of the wives that I had known in Houston, Bird Granger, was out doing some freelance photography and writing. She called me one day and said, "I'm up in Fort Worth and they've got some planes going up to Alaska.

01:08:57.980 - 01:09:16.060

How would you like to fly one?" I had always wanted to go up to Alaska when we were taking planes over the Great Falls, so I thought that would be great. So I went up to the factory and we picked up some Globe Swifts and took them up to Alaska.

01:09:18.900 - 01:09:49.220

I'm not going into details on that story because that's another thing, but it was flying. So anything you can do, fly and get your expenses paid, that's a great thing to do. Being in the family business, it was easy for me to take time off as long as I got my work done at other times.

01:09:52.660 - 01:10:29.480

So we took this trip to Alaska and came back, got whupped off of an airline in California. I had flown three different North American airplanes, 86, P-51, and the B-25, and they were all wonderful airplanes. So I went to the North American factory in order to—they were making an avion, so I

01:10:29.480 - 01:10:44.200

bought an avion. From then on, of course, I had to keep it at the airport. Couldn't get the Farewell flight over my—I failed. I flew the Ryanair Golf 5.

01:10:45.340 - 01:11:17.040

But I continued to fly. We had talked about flying in guest range. So in 1946, the same time, or early in '46, I had gone to California. I had a cousin in Tucson who had been with Patton's group.

01:11:18.340 - 01:11:39.420

He and his brother had set up a little construction business in Tucson. They were building houses. He had an engineering degree from Texas A&M. We stopped in Tucson and we said, "You know, we're looking for a place to buy a guest

01:11:39.460 - 01:12:00.680

ranch, to convert into a guest ranch." So they took us out and showed us two or three places and we found this one spot that was really neat and it was for sale. So we made an offer on it.

01:12:02.160 - 01:12:27.960

I had hardly gotten home before we got a call saying, "They're going to accept your offer for this guest ranch, for this hundred and sixty acre ranch." It had a house, an old adobe house, and a guest house on it. So we began to figure out how we were going to finance all this.

01:12:29.900 - 01:12:52.540

So there were three of us, two other wives and I, and my brother decided that we could handle this. Well, it looked real good on paper, you know, but by the time we got under construction and everybody had to put in more money and more money.

01:12:59.180 - 01:13:28.280

It was a very poorly planned venture. To make a long story short, the two of us dropped out and my mother rescued us. We ended up with a guest ranch in Tucson. We had an airstrip.

01:13:28.640 - 01:13:50.680

Of course, the first thing we did was build an airstrip before we built anything else. I would fly in and out. So we had it all set up where we had a couple that would run it, take care of it for us. Then they quit.

01:13:51.220 - 01:14:07.200

So my brother said, "You have to go out there and take care of it. We got to go out there and sell it, get rid of it. So I came to Tucson. I prayed.

01:14:07.740 - 01:14:22.540

I thought, "Lord, please send us somebody. We don't care. We don't want to make any money. We just want to get out of this."

01:14:22.540 - 01:14:52.560

God said no, and always when he says no, I know he's got something better for me somewhere. But I hadn't learned that part so well then. So I had to—this was a 19—well, they left in—a couple left in '49. So 1949-50 season I had to operate the guest ranch.

01:14:55.340 - 01:15:35.780

I knew the automobile business fairly well and I knew how to ride a horse and all, but I hired this guy to take care of the horses and he had worked on guest ranches in Wyoming in the summer and Arizona in the winter. So he kind of became my second – well, he taught me all the tricks of the trade, so

01:15:35.460 - 01:16:13.300

so to speak, I mean, what to do and how to do things. So we worked together for, in 1951, I think it was, I flew in, I had been to Texas to care of some business and I flew in. My mother had moved to Tucson with me and in the summer we just closed everything up,

01:16:13.360 - 01:16:42.060

got a caretaker and went back to Texas. I think it was January of 1951 I had flown to Texas to take care of, I got things ready to do, the income taxes for the businesses. When I got back, this was my husband, this was Lance.

01:16:42.880 - 01:17:06.160

When I came back on that trip, he told me that he was in love with me. I thought, "This has got to be crazy. I've worked with men all my life. I like men, but I'm not sure that – well, I had lots of boyfriends back, but I guess

01:17:06.260 - 01:17:39.400

flying was – I was more in love with flying than anything else. So I thought, "Well, I like this guy. We're good friends, but I'm not sure." So I said, "Okay, you go back to Wyoming this summer, and I'll go back to Grapeland."

01:17:39.400 - 01:18:06.320

I said if we still feel the same, we got married on November the 15th. That was my mother and father's anniversary. So he left for Wyoming and my mother and I were at the ranch in Tucson. I guess he had been gone about a month and I said, "Let's go to Wyoming."

01:18:09.300 - 01:18:35.340

She said, "Okay." So we got in the plane and we flew up to Wyoming. So I knew pretty much then that he was a guy that God had really planned for me to marry. So that's why we were right in the sale, you know, because God, and he was the best

01:18:35.320 - 01:19:07.500

thing that ever happened to me. I guess the only man alive that would have put up with me, but he was the most unselfish person I ever knew. He loved me, he loved my mother, He loved everything. The children were first, or I was first.

01:19:07.680 - 01:19:29.240

If there was anything left over, that was okay with him. If not, well, that was important. We ran the guest ranch for another five years, six years. My mother developed an enlarged heart and the doctors told her she couldn't go back

01:19:29.240 - 01:19:44.760

to Tucson. So we moved her back to Grapevin and we stayed with her. She passed away in 1957. In the meantime, Sydney was born in 1952.

01:19:47.600 - 01:20:08.940

She slated to fly. I mean he didn't hate to fly, but he hated for me to fly. He still thought it was dangerous and I couldn't see that, but I could see he was unhappy. So we were having some pretty rough times about '53 financially.

01:20:09.320 - 01:20:24.540

Things weren't going too well. It seemed like every time I got ready to go to Texas the weather was bad and I had to take a commercial airline. So we sold the airplane.

01:20:26.480 - 01:20:39.080

I said, "You know, there must be something we can do together that one of us won't be miserable." So I gave up flying. What more could I do?

01:20:39.180 - 01:20:52.880

I had flown up to Alaska. I had taken a plane down to Rio. I had all my wonderful experience in the WASP. So I just closed that door.

01:20:53.640 - 01:21:16.960

Wonderful memories, but I didn't live there anymore. Slats bred Quarter Horses. He was the best horseman I ever knew. We bred horses, quarter horses, registered quarter horses and sold those.

01:21:17.840 - 01:21:50.560

We converted our ranch properties to rentals and we rented those out. We both stayed home, but he was out working all the time, either with the horses or repairing the fence. And I took care of the rentals, and we raised two wonderful children.

01:21:53.100 - 01:22:28.980

Sidney was born in 1952 and Jay was born in 1958. We stayed in Texas in 1957 until she passed away. And that's when we closed the guest ranch and decided that we would... When we got married, we made the decision of whether we would live in Texas or in Arizona.

01:22:29.560 - 01:23:00.820

And financially, we would have been ahead if we had fired our manager and stayed in Texas. But family wise and for the time that we had with our children and to grow up on a ranch and to have both of us I think was the best thing we could do.

01:23:01.080 - 01:23:31.580

It meant so much more to me than the extra money would have meant. I think it did to my children too. And surprise of surprises, every summer vacation we had to go to Disneyland. And I took all of my nieces and nephews, they would come to the ranch and we'd take – we

01:23:31.580 - 01:23:50.420

We had a station wagon and we'd take the kids and go to Disneyland. Gosh, I forgot what a school table. So you have stayed in Arizona. Yeah, we decided to make Arizona our home.

01:23:51.240 - 01:24:36.620

And, although, I don't know that, in 1975 we sold most of our Texas interests, But we gave both children the opportunity to grow up to see if they would be interested in the car business. Of course, vacation time, I told you about going to Disneyland.

01:24:37.940 - 01:25:01.620

It seems to me that the hippie thing started in California. Sometimes we'd go to Oceanside and the surfers there were long-haired and kind of crummy looking. So I told the children, I said, "You can go to school anywhere you want to except California."

01:25:03.660 - 01:25:29.340

But living in Tucson, I assumed that they would go to the University of Arizona. But my daughter surprised me one summer when we still came to Grapeland and stayed in the or so that the manager and other people could take vacations. And besides the time that I commuted.

01:25:32.560 - 01:25:56.680

Sometimes it's a wonderful thing to drive cross country with your children because you have a chance to really let them talk to you and you talk to them. And I think I learned more from particularly Jay because Sid was in school sometimes and when I'd come to Texas he would come with me alone.

01:25:56.980 - 01:26:25.020

And we just had heart-to-heart talks and you know they would just share. It's a time of closeness and sharing. We always told the children that to pick something they love to do, we didn't care what they did with their lives, but pick out something you love to do and then it won't be work.

01:26:26.080 - 01:26:44.480

So we let them make those decisions for themselves. And it didn't surprise me one summer when we were on our way to Grapeland, she said, "Mother, I've decided I want to go to Baylor." And I said, "Well, why did you pick Baylor?"

01:26:44.480 - 01:27:12.560

And she said, "Well, it's a smaller school." And even though she went to Tucson High, which was a tremendous school, she said, "I just feel like that I need a smaller place in the university. So we were delighted in that summer before she was ready to graduate we spent the summer

01:27:13.140 - 01:27:33.960

we stopped in Waco here and Slats was so impressed with the students because they said yes sir and no sir, and yes ma'am, and no ma'am. He thought this was going to be the greatest place in the world. So we were very pleased that she wanted to come to Baylor.

01:27:36.920 - 01:27:58.920

But like I said, it seemed so far from home. When I lived in East Texas, this was okay. So Jay, though, he was interested in flying. While he was still in high school, he got his private license by spending his allowance

01:27:59.000 - 01:28:20.280

and what money he could come up with to learn to fly. And so he had his private license. And he was interested. He roamed the hills, he found Indian artifacts, and he was very interested in archeology.

01:28:21.620 - 01:28:48.020

Of course, the University of Arizona had one of the best schools of archeology. But we didn't tell our children what they had to do. We would come over for Parents' Day and the professor would say, when he was coming to Baylor, and he said, "I'm not going to Baylor.

01:28:48.220 - 01:29:10.320

I'm going to Arizona, University of Arizona," until about his junior year. And then one day he said, "You know, I think I will go to Baylor." So that pleased us no end. So when time came for him to go to college, well, he came here to Baylor.

01:29:12.240 - 01:29:31.320

So both of them, it couldn't have been better news for us. But we never told our children. I think sort of like my family told me, they never told me possibly I couldn't do. I knew there were things they would rather I would do.

01:29:31.960 - 01:29:58.700

But we gave them a lot of choice. Sidney decided she'd be a school teacher at a time when school teachers were a dime a dozen. And so she got her first job in a private school, which was not very lucrative, but

01:29:58.400 - 01:30:31.840

at least, or she was doing what she loved to do. In looking back, Ruth, what do you think the legacy of the WASP will be? Legacy. Well if they don't rewrite it for us, I think it will be that we were a group of women who

01:30:36.080 - 01:31:16.460

to fly and were willing to make, to do whatever it took in the way of study and skill and character to accomplish that. In a man's world, but we were accepted because of our ability and qualifications and that was all that was necessary.

01:31:19.470 - 01:31:58.360

I don't know if that's what you want or not, but that's the best I can come up with. When the children in 2050 listen to your story, what do you hope it will teach them? Well, I think, I hope it will teach them that there are certain things in life, there are values that are important and those values were the values that we lived by.

01:32:00.420 - 01:32:25.920

And I guess one is that you are responsible for your actions either to be rewarded or punished. There's right and there's wrong. Sexual relations are for marriage.

01:32:26.940 - 01:32:50.340

Marriage is for life and a strong faith in God. I think if you had those characteristics that any generation can change the world. What makes you happy? What makes me happy?

01:33:00.420 - 01:33:18.640

What makes me happy? I think I'm happy most because first of all I'm a Christian and as a child of God I don't have to worry about things. I know he's in charge and he's going to work things out.

01:33:18.880 - 01:34:08.580

I don't have to do a lot of things and I'm getting to the place where I don't want to. But I'm happy because of how well my children have developed, how dedicated they are to families to God and to their country. For my grandchildren, I am happy because I'm worried a little bit about the world they

01:34:08.660 - 01:34:28.660

have to grow up in, but I think they're grounded in the same values, and I think that they'll work out wherever you are. What would you like to say to your grandchildren when they see this 25 years from now? What do you want to tell them?

01:34:30.040 - 01:34:47.240

I guess the same thing I've just said. First of all, you're responsible. You can be what you want to be. And there is right and there is wrong.

01:34:49.120 - 01:35:15.360

And you do the things that are right. And you can't do them by yourself. You need the Lord with you. on. Those two things are relationships to each other. Particularly sexual relationships

01:35:15.530 - 01:35:35.000

and marriage are just important. My last thing to you, is there anything that you would like to say? I think I've talked at once. Let me ask you one more question. Ruth, what's your favorite word?

01:35:35.880 - 01:36:13.700

What's my favorite word? Go for it, I guess. I don't know. (laughter) Okay. If you have to think about it, it can't be your favorite.

01:36:13.740 - 01:36:18.580

I don't know. [LAUGHTER] Oh, I think that's great. OK.

01:36:18.840 - 01:36:25.200

We're done. Ruth, that's great. That is great. Whew.

01:36:26.080 - 01:36:36.640

Ruth, you did good. You did great. I hope all my interruptions didn't-- [CLEARS THROAT]

01:36:37.900 - 01:37:25.300

[ENGINE RUMBLING] [Sound of running] Ready. Hup. Hup. [Laughter]

01:37:28.040 - 01:37:39.040

Awe. Welcome to the playground. What does that mean? You said morning. That means I'm overwhelmed. I was here just like I did the first time I came to Baylor.

01:37:39.790 - 01:37:48.900

A country girl from Drakewood, Texas. [laughter] Now you're back at Baylor, 63 years later. Thank you.

01:37:57.000 - 01:38:06.040

Well, one of the things we'd like to do is introduce you to these kids. Oh, nice to meet you. and the ones that are younger are the ones that are older. Can you all come?

01:38:07.040 - 01:38:14.560

I'd like to meet Ruth. These are the undergrads. These are the cadets from Baylor. Nice to meet you. Hi, so is this El?

01:38:14.880 - 01:38:26.840

No, Jeremy Johnson. Jeremy's the only one in the Air Force to be a pilot. This is Captain Taylor. This is Francis Parker.

01:38:32.920 - 01:40:22.440

[chatter] [chatter] [chatter] (water rushing)

01:41:12.020 - 01:41:15.520

Well, those are jet engines. They have props on them. Nice. Whoa.

01:41:16.940 - 01:42:18.000

We had a good trip? Yes >> Thank you very much. [crowd noise]

01:42:26.660 - 01:44:40.260

Okay, thank you. Y'all have a good weekend. [SIDE CONVERSATION] [ Background noise ] >> Thank you very much.

01:44:41.700 - 01:44:54.140

I came here and I saw you being presented with flowers and I said, "She's coming for a baby homecoming." And how wonderful. [ Background noise ]

01:44:55.360 - 01:45:27.380

>> Let me introduce you to Mark. [background noise] I didn't know I wanted to be... Well, actually I went... I left in...

01:45:29.140 - 01:45:43.200

Good. Well, frame it up and see what it looks like. Even if you see the frame at the top. Even if you see the top of the blue screen. They can always fix that later. They can go in with a computer and, you know, select it out and say, okay, this is going to be blue too.

01:45:44.420 - 01:45:53.340

If her hair were touching the top of the screen, you couldn't do it. But as long as she's completely surrounded by the blue screen. Oh yeah. Morning!

01:45:54.780 - 01:46:01.000

Good morning! I think we're ready. We got a crew. Wow.

01:46:02.420 - 01:46:08.900

How'd you sleep? Oh come on, be honest. How'd you sleep? Huh? Did you sleep good? Yeah. Really?

01:46:09.450 - 01:46:20.380

Yeah, I woke up and I had a little trouble getting back to sleep. Oh. Well you were in a strange bed. I got to do it in six hours. Yeah.

01:46:20.460 - 01:46:27.780

Put some of this on the table. Oh, OK. Yeah, that's one of the reasons we have the table. This is our crew this morning.

01:46:29.180 - 01:46:34.080

Put in your scrapbook. Oh. [LAUGHTER] Oh, listen.

01:46:34.660 - 01:46:38.820

Oh, my. Oh, that's great. That's great. That's wonderful.

01:46:38.940 - 01:46:47.060

That's every bit of my fairy time. That's terrific. You better keep this on your person at all times. keep that on your person at all times.

01:46:55.340 - 01:47:08.020

Oh that's fine and we'll tell you what, um... We're going to run this through.

01:47:14.740 - 01:47:32.460

I'm going to open it up like this. [INTERPOSING VOICES] I'm going to read to you, Ruth, about what Nancy wants. She wants not only your WASP experience, she wants all of your experiences.

01:47:32.740 - 01:47:58.200

Because she said, "Children in the future, to look at your life, to see what motivated you as a child, how you grew up, how you did in school, what you did in school, what formed those quality reviews that gave you the desire and the-- no, not know how, but the ambition

01:47:58.240 - 01:48:11.180

to do more than some of the services. So this is not just a lost history. It's your life history. So when we-- why did you want to come to Baylor?

01:48:11.900 - 01:49:25.100

And that's important. And then what you did when you got here, Anyway, but I have never heard anybody tell about the Houston experience. So this is going to be new for me.

01:49:25.900 - 01:49:40.360

So you'll just have to kind of do that on your own, because I don't know enough to ask you. I mean, it's just a, it's kind of like a home here. I mean, we're not, we don't want to see, you know, next year. Yeah, I know, I listened to some of the discussions.

01:49:40.550 - 01:49:53.780

She felt, she thought the same thing that we were Army Air Corps. Okay, go to home and make sure, but it was in a sort of a airport, once you see the first time, still Army air coming down. First hand.

01:49:55.760 - 01:50:04.200

Next one. What do you think was well? I don't like what you'll have tomorrow. High egg there.

01:50:04.420 - 01:50:44.420

A lot like that camera, right? I'm sorry I just didn't have... No, that's okay. How big was this? Um, math, history.

01:50:46.380 - 01:50:52.800

[laughs] I was very good at math. And I learned... I loved history.

01:50:53.600 - 01:51:00.080

[laughs] Yes, we are. Well, what do you want to start with? Talk about your siblings, your brothers and sisters.

01:51:00.320 - 01:51:12.520

There were five in my family, and my older sister was much older than I was. And I just was very nervous.

01:51:15.600 - 01:51:30.800

Did you live in town? We lived in town, right at the edge of town. When we start back, tell us the name of the airport. See this blue scarf?

01:51:31.220 - 01:51:47.540

I think I did. I mean, yes, the airport is-- I think we're going to have holes in her body. I don't need to ask you questions.

01:51:57.000 - 01:52:18.100

I was in Wilford. Anything. One of my best friends had been a patch of white in Drakeland and they had taken a church in Houston. So every Sunday I got to go to, so we had a wonderful time.

01:52:19.620 - 01:52:34.860

We were adopted by some American airline college because one of the girls in our class had been with us years. She was trained by her best friend, Ruth DeValis. What day did you actually defect? One hour in.

01:52:36.120 - 01:52:43.540

I imagine about 150. How many did you get? Two kids. Two kids. We had seven months.

01:52:44.820 - 01:52:58.360

I beg your pardon? We had seven months. I think we had 150 to do pretty much. P.K.'s or whatever they operate.

01:53:01.360 - 01:53:07.000

Where are they? They're a bunch of Yankees, I'll bet. Wasn't it? California.

01:53:08.880 - 01:53:15.960

They all think we're stupid because we talk slow. It's terrible. I can't hear a word she's saying. I beg your pardon?

01:53:16.320 - 01:53:24.720

I can't hear you from up here, but I can see you. Oh, when she goes up in the booth. She can't hear you, she can see you, but she can't hear you. This is great.

01:53:24.980 - 01:53:33.740

Now when we go back, are you going to start on five? This is great. I'm learning so much. much. One know about toying targets?

01:53:37.660 - 01:54:03.500

Oh wait a minute I need to change this. Okay so all right here we go. I actually got into television. I was acting. tell the camera is the fact that you can...

01:54:03.500 - 01:54:15.980

- The sound, the sound's really good. - Okay. - Yep, and you're young, yes. - Right, now you're good.

01:54:20.340 - 01:54:39.420

- We're rolling. - So I chose the pursuits, of course, But like I said, it was three or four months before I got to Pacheco. And in February of 1944, I reported to Pacheco and Palm Springs

01:54:39.500 - 01:55:03.100

because they wanted us all there for deactivation. And they had special honors and a special way for our deactivation. And this is a picture of all of us. That's great.

01:55:05.720 - 01:55:13.480

Wow. Here's my... Hey Jennifer. Follow me.

01:55:16.940 - 01:55:32.640

Here's my transportation card. Here's my... Here's my qualification card. Looks like a report card.

01:55:33.260 - 01:55:48.960

Yeah, it does. Here's my office card. Here's my church card. Oh, I'm not hung up.

01:55:54.880 - 01:56:06.760

That's my card from my church. Here's my... I had a bunch of other stuff, I told Nancy. This is...

01:56:06.760 - 01:56:19.940

Airplanes. And so I went to the North American faculty in order to... They were making a Navy Yon, and so I bought a Navy Yon. And I got a Navy Yon.

01:56:19.960 - 01:56:34.740

And from then on, of course, I had to keep it at the airport. Couldn't be a farewell flight. I still flew there right across. But--

01:56:34.740 - 01:56:46.500

Now I'll introduce this monitor. It was with a little bit of horror I realized that we were going to be meeting here. I had envisioned about 200 people in the crowd.

01:56:47.040 - 01:57:02.640

And I have a great deal of relief I see there's a handful of cadets and alum here with the cadre. In 1939, Jacqueline Cochran proposed the use of women pilots to fill in for the male pilots in times of national emergency.

01:57:03.840 - 01:57:19.000

In 1942, that proposal became a reality with the inception of the Women's Pilot Training Program. By program's end, 1,074 women had received their wings in Army flight training. They've flown over 60 million miles,

01:57:19.060 - 01:57:32.000

and they've done it in 78 different Army-designated aircraft. It's with a great deal of personal pride that I get to introduce to you my mother, Mrs. Ruth Allen.

01:57:34.320 - 01:57:49.420

Hale graduate of 1937. She was accepted into the Women's Pilot Training Program and graduated with the second class in May of 1943. She served until the WASP was disbanded in December of 1944.

01:57:51.220 - 01:58:02.780

During that time, she was qualified and flew 27 different Army-designated aircraft. If you would please help me welcome me and my mom. [APPLAUSE]

01:58:07.260 - 01:58:24.260

[ Applause ] >> Thank you, thank you. I can't tell you how thrilled I am to be here. And what a surprise I got yesterday at the airport.

01:58:25.520 - 01:58:45.340

Oh, I tell you, you young people just thrill my heart and I just am so proud of you. The Apostle Paul said, "I know whom I have believed, and I'm persuaded that he's able to keep that which I've committed unto him until that day."

01:58:45.500 - 01:59:05.040

When I was nine years old, I committed my life to Christ, and my life has been a life of miracles. And the miracle I want to talk to you about this afternoon is how a girl from a small, rural East Texas town, who never saw an airplane until she was 11 years old.

01:59:05.980 - 01:59:30.240

Fifteen years later had flown 27 different Army designated aircraft. When I was 11, an old barnstormer had an emergency landing in our town. We were too small for them to make that a regular stop. And my father was a Chevrolet dealer and he let him use his shop and his tools to repair

01:59:30.320 - 01:59:42.400

his plane. And when he was finished, he said, "I don't have any money to pay you, but I'll give you a free ride." And when my father came home and told us about it, my mother didn't want him to go.

01:59:42.840 - 01:59:59.100

And so when I knew he wasn't going to get to go, I said, "I want to be the one to take the flight." So finally that afternoon, my father took me out and put me in the airplane. And we took off and I looked down and I saw all those little houses and I thought, "Of

01:59:59.100 - 02:00:14.000

course, someday I'm going to fly. This is for me." Well, when I became a junior and we were talking about coming to Baylor, I had a cousin here and they were making plans for me to go to college.

02:00:14.640 - 02:00:30.320

And I said, "Well, you know, I really don't want to go to college. I want to learn how to fly." And I'd sent for literature from the flying schools I'd heard about. There was one in Tulsa, Oklahoma and one in San Antonio, and that was just about the limit

02:00:30.400 - 02:00:46.480

of my world at that time. They said, "No, you go to college, get your degree, and then you can learn how to fly." So I went home with my degree and I said, "Okay, here's my degree. Now I can learn how to fly."

02:00:46.980 - 02:01:09.320

No, that wasn't the story. The deal was you get your degree, you earn your own money, and you learn how to fly. I didn't get any encouragement from my family, except they never did tell me I couldn't fly. So about a year after I finished Baylor, I drove over to Tyler Airport, which was about

02:01:09.940 - 02:01:22.660

50 or 60 miles from where I live, and found an instructor and I said, "I want to learn how to fly with a private license. How much will you charge me?" And he said, "Well, it'll be $360."

02:01:23.200 - 02:01:42.660

So we were talking about when I could fly over and making arrangements. He looked at me and he said, "You know, it's too bad you're not in college." And I said, "Well, I finished college." He said, "You have, well go down to Tyler Junior College and sign up for my CPT class.

02:01:43.280 - 02:01:53.420

It'll cost you $25, and when you're finished, you'll have your private license." So that was my miracle. That was one of them. That was just the beginning.

02:01:54.400 - 02:02:14.260

So I got my private license and joined the flying club. Had a plane in Palestine, which was about 25 miles from home. A flying club had about ten members, and I was about the only one that had a license, and the plane was getting pretty rough treatment.

02:02:15.400 - 02:02:26.400

So I told the airport manager, "I wish I had my own airplane." And he said, "I'll look out for one." So he called me one day and said, "Come over to the airport. I'll fly you over to Kilgore.

02:02:26.520 - 02:02:46.040

They've got an airplane over there for sale." I went over and here was this beautiful little Veronica Chief, blue and white, side by side instead of tandem, had a wheel instead of a stick. It was just a beautiful little airplane and he wanted $1,500 for it.

02:02:47.340 - 02:02:57.560

So I went home and I said, "I need some help. I need $1,500." They said, "What are you going to do with it?" I said, "Buy an airplane."

02:02:57.560 - 02:03:13.820

And they said, "No way." So I went down and talked to the banker, and I had a job, and I said, "I need to borrow $1,500 and I can pay you so much." He said, "Well, what are you going to do with the money?"

02:03:13.820 - 02:03:28.920

And I said, "Well, I'm going to buy an airplane." And you know he let me have it. They didn't lend money on automobiles in 1939. So I borrowed the money and bought my little airplane.

02:03:29.700 - 02:03:42.520

Then I decided I was spending an awful lot of time going back and forth to the airport when I could be flying. So we lived at the edge of town. We had a pasture back at our house where my father used to bring horses in from the ranch

02:03:42.580 - 02:04:00.480

and keep them every once in a while. So I walked that pasture and I decided that if the wind was just right, I could land the plane there. So I went up to the airport, got my plane, came down and landed, and took off.

02:04:00.640 - 02:04:24.160

So from then on I kept my airplane at home, had a T-hanger built, and the mobile data got me aviation gas in a barrel. So all I had to do when I left work was go out and get my plane and go flying. So by that time they had CPT courses all over all the universities.

02:04:24.900 - 02:04:36.780

SMU had one up at Dallas. It was nice to fly up and visit with the guys and have a coat and go home. I just kept flying. I loved to fly.

02:04:38.160 - 02:05:03.480

In fact, I found that I was spending all my spare time and all my spare money flying. I found out I could do without a new dress and new pair of shoes. I didn't have to be too stylish if I could fly. So then in 1941, I got a telegram from Cochran, Jacqueline Cochran, and she wanted to meet

02:05:03.620 - 02:05:19.080

me at Dallas, but meet all the Texas women who were flying. And she was recruiting women to go to England. The British were desperate for pilots, and so they asked her to bring a group of women to England.

02:05:21.100 - 02:05:39.220

You had to have 500 hours and be qualified on heavy aircraft, and I was not qualified for that. So I went back home and continued to fly. But this was eight days after Pearl Harbor, and we asked her at that meeting if they would

02:05:39.220 - 02:06:02.940

us in there, couldn't we fly for our country? And they said no. She had been assured that they didn't need us, they weren't going to use us. But by the middle of 1942, the pilot shortage was so terrific that they called Cochran to come back from London and put her plan and practice are to begin recruiting the women.

02:06:04.160 - 02:06:36.880

And I qualified for that and went to Houston. The school was in Houston then and graduated with the second class. We were sent to four different ferry bases. They had one in Dallas, one in Wilmington, Delaware, one in Long Beach, and one in Romulus,

02:06:37.200 - 02:06:54.400

Michigan. I was stationed in Dallas. What we did was go to the factories, pick up the training planes, take them to the training bases in California, South Texas, Florida, all the southern states where they had most

02:06:54.400 - 02:07:25.040

of the flying schools at that time. During the summer of 1943, we flew open cockpit PT-13s, PT-17s from the factories in Kansas and Oklahoma and Texas to training bases. Then in the fall of 1943, they began to let us fly the heavier aircraft.

02:07:25.740 - 02:07:51.780

In fact, we flew the AT-60s out of Dallas quite often. But in the fall, they gave us our choice of either checking out in pursuits or in the heavier aircraft. I chose the pursuits and in February of 1944, I was sent to pursuit school in Palm Springs,

02:07:51.880 - 02:08:09.520

California. I checked out in the P-40, the P-39, the P-47, and the P-51. North American had a factory right out of Dallas at Grand Prairie where they started making P-51s.

02:08:09.680 - 02:08:36.120

So when I got back to the base, it wasn't unusual for us to take P-51s, or take it all the way to New Jersey, where they were—what they did, they sprayed goop on them, put them on the deck of a ship, and these ships went out with convoys. And sometimes we had to get the planes there, or the ship taking the planes would be—the

02:08:36.120 - 02:08:53.840

The whole convoy was held up until they got the planes loaded. So it was unusual to take a couple of trips to New York. What we did, we had the highest priority on the airlines of any group except the White House.

02:08:53.980 - 02:09:12.540

And when we delivered a plane, our order said we were to report to the operations officer for further orders. And if there were no further orders, we were returned to our base by the fastest aircraft or fastest transportation.

02:09:13.880 - 02:09:43.940

So we would go into the airport terminal at 42nd Street Terminal there in downtown New York and the business people would just throw up their hands when they saw four or five a fair pilots come in because they knew that they had to give up their seats. We stayed awfully busy during all of 1944 delivering planes.

02:09:45.900 - 02:10:05.840

One week I delivered four planes. I think I'll tell you about that and I'll give you an idea of how we operated. So I'd like to point out that fighter aircraft, or pursuits as we called them in those days, don't have a luggage compartment.

02:10:07.000 - 02:10:28.780

So all we could take with us was a briefcase. We had our papers, we had to sign for the airplane, we had our requisition for transportation, and what few articles of clothing we could get into this briefcase. We learned to pack it pretty efficiently because we never knew when we might be breathing in

02:10:28.920 - 02:10:54.840

somewhere. But one Saturday at Dallas I was given orders to pick up a P-51 and take it to Kansas City. Well that's just a short hop and I knew I could get back to Dallas that night if I had to, but we had just transferred some girls from Dallas up to Kansas City and I packed

02:10:54.920 - 02:11:12.460

for overnight because I thought, "I'm going to spend the night because Sunday is no need to get back to the base." So I packed for overnight and flew into Kansas City and reported to the operations officer and he said, "I've got a P-51 going to Long Beach."

02:11:12.480 - 02:11:30.860

And I said, "Okay, I'll take it tomorrow." He said, "No, you have time to get to Amarillo today, so get going." So Saturday night in Amarillo, not a hotel room available. So finally they found a place in the emergency quarters for me to spend the night.

02:11:32.000 - 02:11:55.140

And Sunday morning I got up and flew to Long Beach. into Long Beach about twelve o'clock and he reported to the operations officer. He said, "I have a P-51 going to New York." And I said, "Oh, not today." He said, "No, you don't have to come out until about noon tomorrow because it's going to be socked

02:11:55.300 - 02:12:18.100

in. But I want you here at noon because we're going to get you out." So Monday afternoon I flew to El Paso to refuel and spend the night. And Tuesday morning, flew into Dallas. While I was refueling my plane, I went to change clothes and repack my briefcase for

02:12:18.280 - 02:12:32.960

overnight and took off for Europe. I spent the night. I should have stopped in Atlanta. You were only required to fly five hours a day in a pursuit.

02:12:33.880 - 02:12:47.520

And the reason for that for you younger people is that we flew the airplane. The airplane didn't fly us. And so you were flying all the time. So five hours in a pursuit was considered a day's work.

02:12:48.800 - 02:13:17.600

But I don't know why it possessed me, but I decided I'd go on to Greensboro. I had flown seven hours and I realized how tired I was when I could hardly get out of the airplane. And I lectured myself about that and said, "Don't ever do that again." But anyway, the next day, I think that was Tuesday, okay, Wednesday,

02:13:17.630 - 02:13:42.100

I delivered this third aircraft to New Jersey and reported to the operations officer. And he said, "Well, I have a P-63 from Niagara Falls to Great Falls, Montana." And I knew I had him. I said, "P-63 is not on my qualification card." And he said, "They'll give you a transition at the factory."

02:13:42.100 - 02:14:04.300

And he said, "Besides, you know as well as I do that a P-63 is just a P-39 warmed over." [laughter] "So you go up there and get it." So Thursday morning, I spent the all day Thursday at the factory, around school and the tech

02:14:04.340 - 02:14:23.880

orders, getting used to the P-63. And it was, it was pretty much like the P-39. Had a little more power and a nicer airplane, really. So Friday morning I took off on my way to Great Falls.

02:14:26.140 - 02:14:54.120

Stopped in Rochester, Minnesota, a little under five hours, a little over four hours, but I decided four hours, that's enough for a day. The next day, Friday, no that was Friday, Saturday I got a flight to Billings, Montana, And not too far from Great Falls, but I remember what I told myself two days ahead before that

02:14:54.140 - 02:15:15.440

and I did not try to push it. Sunday morning I delivered P-63 in Great Falls and reported to the operations officer and he said, "You can go back to Dallas." So that was—I never had but one week like that, but it was not unusual for us to take

02:15:15.380 - 02:15:40.020

a plane to New York and get a plane going to Great Falls. All of those planes that Bell made went to, had a red star on them. We gave them to Russia, the ones that I flew. I think I can speak for all the wives when I say there's no greater thrill, really, than

02:15:39.900 - 02:16:05.240

to be able to serve your country by doing something you love to do. And I know that they all feel like I do. Tom Brokaw has called us the greatest generation, and we were because we did things that we never dreamed we would do because that was what was required of us.

02:16:06.400 - 02:16:26.120

And someone asked me the other day, "Can America produce another great generation?" And I said, "Yes." And this is it, I think. But I said, "They will have to return to the values that we lived by in 1942 and '44."

02:16:26.120 - 02:16:47.780

And those values were sexual relations are for marriage. Marriage is for life. right and there's wrong and you are responsible for your actions and a strong faith in God. There were no atheists in foxholes and there were no

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atheists among the people at home who prayed for their safe return. *gib