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Well, there were things I always liked, you know, the Red Cross and all that kind of... (beeping) - Say that I'm Ruth Humphries, probably you'd want to say that, Brown.

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And I was born-- - Do I say Ruth Humphries, Brown, or Ruth Humphries? - No, 'cause you're now Brown. - Yeah, okay.

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- So I get all three of them in there. - Okay. - Ready to go? - And when you, wait a minute.

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- Okay. - And when you, rolling. I'm Deanie Parrish, and we're in the home of Ruth Brown in Aspen, Texas.

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I'm Deanie Perry, and we're interviewing Ruth Humphreys Brown in her home in Aspen, Colorado. She's a WASP, Class 43-W8. Today is the 12th of September, 2000.

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Okay, Ruth, tell us your name, where you were born, and your family. As you heard, Ruth Humphreys Brown. I was born in Denver, Colorado, in 1920, November 11. Kelly: Who were your parents?

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Litz: My mother was Ruth Betcher Humphreys, and my father was Albert E. Humphreys. Kelly: What did your dad do, Ruth? Litz: He was in the mining business. Kelly: Did you have siblings?

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Steele: Did I have siblings? Yes, I had one. One sister. Kelly: Tell us about her.

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Steele: She was eight years younger than I. We were more or less brought up together in the same house in Denver, but we were never particularly close at that point because of our age difference. What are your earliest recollections of your childhood?

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Just growing up in Denver as a kid. Do you remember your playmates? Do you remember what you did? We were always getting into trouble.

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That was the main object. We had fun. I had some good friends. We had good times together.

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Kelly: Do you remember in your early childhood, do you remember your grandparents? What connection did you have with your grandparents? Kelly: Well, I had a connection on my mother's side with my grandfather, who was Charles Boettcher, and he was one of the old pioneers of Colorado.

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In fact, there are several things in Denver now that are named the Boettcher Hall and whatnot after him. Kelly: What did he do? He came over from Germany with $10 in his pocket and started the Ideal Cement Company

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in Denver, which was at that time the biggest cement company in the West, and started the Sugar Company, which is still going, making sugar beets out in the western part of or out eastern part of Denver, from Denver. He was separated from his wife many years, well before I can remember, and lived alone

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down at the Brown Palace Hotel, which at one point he owned. He lived on top, had a suite up on top, and I used to go visit him all the time. I was really very fond of him. My grandmother, we never saw too much of.

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Mother made me go over there and made me go over there. It wasn't a too pleasant experience. I did call on her occasionally, and then she died. Of course, then they both passed away.

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Kelly: Do you remember, were you ever able to take some of your friends with you when you visited your grandfather in that penthouse? Lowdermilk Honstein No, no. I usually went with part of the family or alone and so forth.

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That was my mother's side. Then on my father's side, my grandfather and grandmother, I was fairly close to both of them until my grandfather died. He built this place that we have down in the southern part of the state, down at Wagon

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Wheel Gap, which is a wonderful family place that we still have. He built that in 1923. To this day, we took it over and the entire family really enjoyed it very much. It's a beautiful place.

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My grandmother ran it after his death for a long time, way back in the old days, and had all her pals there. We had wonderful times, wonderful family times together. Kelly: As a young child, what were your vacations like?

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Lowdermilk Honstein: Mainly going to this place at Wagon Wheel Gap. That was in the summer. In the winter, I did not really take vacations very much. Kelly: What are your earliest remembrances about starting school?

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Do you remember any of your teachers in those early years? Kelly: Yeah, I remember at Grayland, which was—Grayland started as a little house on Pennsylvania Street in Denver. My family and several of the other Denver families that had children there raised enough

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money for them to build a regular school, which is still going now, and it's a big success. When we were moved out there, I remember my gym teacher particularly. His name was Chester and did lots of work in the gym with sports and so forth, which

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is what I cared about. Some of the other teachers I really do not remember too much about. Ruth, in your early years, what was a Christmas like in your home? It was a lot of decorations around the house, lighting up all of the trees.

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My family had a fairly large house in Denver up on Cheesman Park. They always decorated it up. We had a playroom down in the basement, my sister and I. I remember there was a little stage there, and I remember putting on Christmas plays

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and that sort of thing, getting back into the theater world. Kelly: Do you think that's when your love of theater began? Lowdermilk Honstein: Probably. Did your grandparents come and spend some time at your home at Christmas?

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Steele: No, no, they really didn't. I don't remember anything about that. We just had our own Christmases. Kelly: As you grew on into junior high school, what was your ambition?

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Kelly: No, that was probably to get into the theatrical world. Would have been— Kelly: Do you remember who were your role models? Kelly: You mean in the theater or in school?

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Kelly: In school. While you were in school, who were your role models? There were some girls back at Farmington that were in the upper classes. They were mainly in sports, I would say.

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I love sports, and I was captain of our team there. I was going to ask you, in junior high, what sports did you participate in? What did the girls do in those days? Played a little tennis, not too much.

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Kelly: Did you ski at an early age? Klemski: No, I did not ski until I got out of Farmington, because there was not much skiing over in this country at that point. I had a roommate who went to Switzerland all the time, and she and her sister learned how

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to ski. And they came back and decided to teach all of Farmington how to ski. So we went out on the golf course. So that was the amount of our—that was our skiing was on the golf course at Farmington.

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Kelly: Okay. You stayed in Denver and went to school until what age? I mean, before I went off to boarding school? Well, I was at fifteen, I guess.

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Kelly: What made your parents decide to send you to boarding school? Lowdermilk Honstein Well, at that point, the parents that were able to financially sent most of their kids off to boarding school, east of school, because They did not think the preparatory at home was all that great.

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Kelly: Do you remember how you felt when you left home for the first time to go away to school? Lowdermilk Honstein Yeah, I was looking forward to it. My cousin, who was sort of a role model of mine, she was three years older and she went

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to Farmington. She had been there, so I really was looking forward to going. I have to tell you a funny story about that, that we arrived at Farmington, my mother and father took me, and we climbed up about three flights of stairs in an old building, because

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Farmington is an old building place. My room was way up on the top in sort of what you might call an attic. It was a perfectly decent room, but the roommate had not arrived yet. When she did arrive with her mother, she was from New York City, and of course they thought

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everybody in Colorado had been living with the Indians and came from boardwalks on their streets and so forth. None of them had ever been east of Pennsylvania. My roommate happened to be Brenda Diana "Duff" Frazier, and you've probably heard of her.

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She was the big glamour girl of that age. She was in all over Life magazine and the whole works. Of course, my mother and father nearly died when they thought, "What are we leaving our daughter with?"

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But it turned out Brenda and I became very good friends, and she got along fine at the school and so did I. Kelly: What was your favorite subject? - Mm-hmm.

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- The theater, I guess. - Okay. At Farmington, did you enter theatrical productions? Did you help with those?

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- Yeah, we had. They had three things, mixed possum squirrels for Miss Porter's school, MPS, and the, oh, those were the athletic teams, pardon me.

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They had drama and music and I've forgotten, anyway, certain things that you could be in and I happened to pick the drama. So we put on productions.

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- Was this school an all-girls school? - Yeah. - While you were there, what were you preparing for? Did you have a goal in mind?

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Not really. You see, in those days, it was called a finishing school, and they did not prepare you for college. As we always say, they prepared you to show you how to hold a teacup the correct way.

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Kelly: Have you remained friends with some of your classmates from that school? Jernigan: Yes, I have. When you would come home during the summer for vacations, did you come back to Denver? Kelly: Yes, I always came back.

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Then we went down to the southern part of the state to this place I was telling you about, Wagon Wheel Gap. I spent most of the summer down there. Kelly: When you would go down to Wagon Wheel Gap, would you have friends that came there

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to visit you? Kelly: Yeah, that came to visit me from the east. Some from Farmington. At college later on, I went to a junior college, and I had friends from there that would come.

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Kelly: When you were at school, do you remember any special production that you helped with or that you participated in? Lowry: Not particularly at Farmington, no. We just did all sorts of things.

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Kelly: When you finished Farmington, then where did you go? Finch College in New York, Finch Junior College. Kelly: When you finished Farmington, did you have a special graduation? Or how did you—

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Lowdermilk Honstein Yeah, you had a special graduation. Kelly: Tell us about that graduation. Lowdermilk Honstein It's called the Daisy Chain. It was always outside in the garden.

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Everybody had a chain made out of daisies, and you paraded around with that. Kelly: Did your parents— Steele: Yeah, the parents came. Kelly: When you graduated from Farmington, then did you come back to Denver before you

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went on to junior college? Steele: Yes. Kelly: Then you went to Finch School from there. Tell us about entering that school.

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Was that a co-ed school? Kelly: No, it was all girls. Kelly: All girls. Did a lot of your friends also go to Finch?

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Kelly: No. In fact, nobody from my class at Farmington went. Most of them did not go to any kind of college. Kelly: So you had to make new friends?

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Kelly: They had to make all new friends. Kelly: Did that bother you? Kelly: Not really. Kelly: While you were at Finch, what did you study, mainly?

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Kelly: Well, as I say, I majored in theater arts, and then just the usual things you study. Kelly: Do you remember any specific professors that you had that influenced you? Kelly: Now, Mrs. Reginald Pohl and her husband, they were head of the Theater Arts Department. I became very close to her.

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She was well-known for doing things on Broadway, too, at the time. Kelly: What did you enjoy most about theater? Lowdermilk Honstein Just the whole thing. I liked the acting part of it.

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For some reason, I really enjoyed the whole scene. Kelly: While you were at Finch, were you still interested in sports and did you participate? Steele: Yes, except that it was pretty hard to participate in any sports at Finch, being in the middle of New York City.

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Kelly: What years were you at Finch? Steele: '39 and '40. Kelly: When you finished Finch, was there a graduation ceremony? Steele: Yeah.

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Kelly: Tell us about that. Do you have cats in gowns, do you remember? Steele: Isn't that funny? I can't even remember.

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It wasn't a big deal. Kelly: Okay. Then what were your intentions after that? Where did you go?

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Steele: Back to Denver. That's where I spent most of my time. That's when I did a few things around there, some volunteer work and whatnot, and then got interested in skiing at that point.

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And did a lot of skiing around the Alberg Club, which was outside of Denver. And then from the Alberg Club, that's when we all decided, a bunch of us there, to come up to Aspen and do something up around here. They bought some houses and it became a second home, as it were.

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Do you remember where you were and how you felt when you heard about Pearl Harbor? Yes, I was up at the Auburn Club and threw a radio in the car, as a matter of fact, leaving that day. How did that change your family, for example?

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How did World War II affect your family? Not particularly. Of course, the rationing, that sort of thing. At that point, was your dad still in mining?

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Yeah, he was in mining. When you came up to Aspen, Denver, what did you do? I opened a shop up here that was a decorative accessory gift shop with a partner in Denver. Had you had experience in shops?

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No. What made you decide to open a shop? Well, I kind of wanted to stay in Aspen, and I didn't want to at this point go back home and live with the family and decided that I wanted to be on my own.

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That's when I remodeled a little house up here. Kelly: Tell us about that house. Lowdermilk Honstein: It was called the Pink House. It was actually a miner's shack.

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You could pick up property at that point for nothing. Walter Pepke had come into Aspen then and was buying things for $50 for a house and a lot. Fifty dollars, not fifty thousand dollars.

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I decided I'd waited a little too long because I had to pay $500 for my house and lot. I thought that was a terrible price. The family thought I was crazy to come up here and get involved in something like that, but they went along with it and decided that I was old enough to make up my own mind about

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what I wanted to do. Kelly: You remodeled it, and then what did you do with it? the house. Then, well, I lived in it until I was married. And we were married in 1947, so that was in 1945.

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Kelly: Okay. If we'll go back to World War II, when the World War II began, what are your earliest recollections of airplanes? I'm glad you asked me that question, because I hadn't mentioned to you that when my family had—my father was a pilot, a Marine pilot in World War I, and there were very few of

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them, actually. He went overseas, so I had kind of been brought up with flying family. When I was about age three or four, I would say, my mother and father had one of the first passenger airplanes in the United States.

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They had a pilot. Daddy didn't do flying anymore when he got out of the Marines, but he always loved flying. They had what was called a Fokker, and that was one of the first cabin passenger planes, very plush.

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It had a little couch in the back and all that sort of thing. For those days, and they flew all over the country and they used to take me along with them. I did not like flying a bit.

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In fact, I used to get sick. So the minute I heard about we had to go on some flying trip, I would become immediately nauseated. So that was my first remembrance of flying.

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Then they got into a larger plane called a Bok, which is a tri-motor airplane, and they still had the same pilot. He was a wonderful guy. The family would go off on business trips, my father would.

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The pilot that they had was my nursemaid and would take care of me. I always had fun with him. I can remember going down to Galveston, Texas. Remember Galveston in the old days used to be a gambling place?

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Mother and Daddy would gamble at night, and Eddie Brooks, the pilot, would take me out and we'd play miniature golf out. That was when miniature golf was just first coming in. So that's how I spent my youth with my nursemaid.

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Kelly: Wow. What was the name of your dad's business? He had his own business that was Humphrey's mining company. Kelly: These trips that he would take, they were business?

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Lowry: Business trips. Kelly: He would take business associates? Lowry: Yeah. He was mining titanium.

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A lot of it was done in Florida, out of Ponte Vedra. He originally was plaster mining in gold, and then he got into titanium. My uncle had developed the spiral, which is still a famous way of separating gold and silver and so forth, or metals.

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Kelly: Ruth, when you were going back and forth to school and coming home for vacations, did your dad's pilot fly you, or how did you get— Lowry: No, I went commercially. On trains, first of all, I was on the train.

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first, and then finally got into airplanes. Kelly: After World War II started, did your dad still own an airplane at that point? Lowry: I think so, yeah. Kelly: What gave you the—

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Lowry: Well, I know he did, because he owned an airplane after Doris and I were married. Kelly: Okay. When did you first have a love for flying that made you want to be a pilot? Lowry: I would say after I got out of college, I would imagine.

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Kelly: And when did you decide to start taking lessons? To get in the WASPs? Just to get in the WASPs. Tell us about hearing about that and then—

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Well, I heard about—we heard about the program and all the gals were having—you know, trying to do something for the war effort. And it was either that or Bundles for Britain, and I decided flying sounded a little more exciting than knitting for Bundles for Britain.

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So do you remember that program, "Buttles for Britain?" Kelly: So then how did you decide, how did you find an instructor and where did you start flying? Rowland: Well, I started flying in Denver there at what used to be the only airport

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they had. It was before, of course, they had Lowry Air Force Base, but they had, I mean, the only civilian, before they built Stapleton. And they had an instructor out there.

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Kelly: Were there any other girls learning to fly? Lowdermilk Honstein No, not that I knew of anyway. Kelly: Tell me about your first solo. Lowdermilk Honstein There wasn't anything exciting about it.

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I mean, there wasn't anything, you know, just—it was a thrill to finally get up there and be by myself. Kelly: Okay. And when you got enough hours, what did you—

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Well, you had to build up 35 to become eligible to apply for the WASPs. I did that as quickly as possible, once I had heard about the program, and decided to apply for it as soon as I got my 35 hours. Kelly: Then what happened next, after you applied?

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I waited to hear. Kelly: Okay. When you heard, did you have to do something? Steele: It's funny.

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I'm sorry, I really can't remember exactly what the period was in there of waiting. I don't think it was too long as I remember. Kelly: Okay. Did you have to go someplace special to take a physical, for example?

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Steele: Yes, I think I had to go to the doctor to get a physical. - We had to do that to get a private license, didn't you? Yeah. - Yeah, but in order--

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- Oh, I didn't even get a private license, that's right. All I did was solo. - And get-- - And get 35 hours, yeah. - But then for this particular thing,

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did you not have to go to a military doctor for that physical or not? - I don't think I did. Do you remember?

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- Well, it was probably different for me. I don't know. - Yeah, I can't remember. After you had your fiscal and returned your questionnaire or whatever, then what happened?

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Did you get orders? I got orders to come to—I got accepted, I guess, and was told to report to Sweetwater. I had a very close friend of mine who decided at the same time that she would apply, too, the WASP. This is after I did. She had a connection down in Tulsa, Oklahoma, of some description

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with an air base down there. She applied for the WASP, and she got in before I did. Here, I was the one who started the whole thing. That's how I got in with the W7 group, because she was a W7. They became all my closest friends, actually.

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Kelly: When you received orders to report to Sweetwater, what were your long-term expectations with that program? What did you think you would be doing? Ferrying airplanes.

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At that point, that's all the WASPs were there for. Kelly: When you arrived at Sweetwater, describe for me a venture field. Well, it was just more or less what I expected. You lived in bays and it was very strict.

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You were under the Air Force command there and they had strict orders that you had to Go by. Kelly: Ruth, what was the biggest adjustment you had to make in training? Lowry: As far as living or as far as flying?

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What do you mean? Kelly: Any adjustment. Had you been used to having six girls in a room? Was that an adjustment for you?

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Lowry: That was not particularly—it did not bother me. Kelly: Could you tell us about your roommates? Lowry: My bay mates? Kelly: Uh-huh.

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Lowry: They were my bay mates. They were all very nice, as I remember. As I say, I was not too close to any of my actual class, because my close friends were all in W-7, so we were not in the same bay.

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I mean, there were girls, of course, that I liked very much that were in our class, But none that I was really close to, and the close ones were all, as I say, in the next class. Kelly: Was the training what you expected?

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Lowry: Yeah, I would say. I didn't really have any idea what it was going to be like. It wasn't easy. Kelly: Tell us about ground school.

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Lowry: Ground school was— Kelly: What did you enjoy studying? Kelly: I didn't really enjoy any of it. It was something you had to learn.

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I suppose meteorology, learning about the weather, was one of the most interesting. Brown School was certainly interesting, I should not down it, but to me it was just like something you had to learn in school. Kelly: Was anything particularly hard for you in Brown School, any of the courses?

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Lowdermilk Honstein No, not particularly. Kelly: Tell us about the flying. Lowdermilk Honstein In training, you are talking about. The flying, I went right along with it.

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I mean, it did not bother me. I enjoyed it very much. I used to do some little things you were not supposed to be doing. You would get the instructors to take you out and do a few aerobatics and whatnot, which

00:34:00.300 - 00:34:11.460

they were not allowed to do when you got up into AT-6s. That was against the rules, but we all kind of got away with it. I enjoyed that. That was fun.

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Kelly: Do you remember any particularly interesting things that happened while you were in training? Not really. Well, there were certain instances that were—one, I guess, was I had a station wagon at that point that I brought down to Texas with me.

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I guess I drove it down in the beginning. I was one of the few gals that had a car down there. So we never got off, but if we ever got a few days off to go someplace, like a weekend why we would go over to Fort Worth or Dallas from Sweetwater and spend the weekend.

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When I would do this, it was illegal to have any kind of alcohol on the base. Am I supposed to tell these things out of the—is this going to be bad? Kelly: No, you go right ahead. Morgan: Everybody had an order of what they wanted from Dallas, because Sweetwater was

00:35:29.500 - 00:35:56.380

dry as you remember. To buy any kind of liquor, you had to go to a place like Dallas and so forth. I came back one time with the—they called it the Blue Bar, the station wagon. I came back with it absolutely loaded with everybody's order that was in the back of

00:35:56.400 - 00:36:07.900

the thing. Of course, we got caught arriving at the base. Big reprimand, of course. I don't know why they didn't decide to wash us out right at that point, but I guess

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they didn't dare. We had some sort of penalty. I don't know what it was. That was one of the highlights of supplying the Bay with all the illegal stuff.

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Kelly: Were you also supplying the instructors? Lowdermilk Honstein Yes, I think we were. Kelly: Did you have to meet the board? Lowdermilk Honstein We had to meet the board.

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Kelly: What was your explanation? Well, we were just being bad. We didn't bring in anybody else's names, because there was no point in getting them into trouble. We just said that it was just for the group.

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Kelly: Do you remember, were you restricted to base for a while? Lowdermilk Honstein: Probably, yeah. I would imagine so. Kelly: Do you remember your first solo in a PT-19?

00:37:04.920 - 00:37:22.540

Lowdermilk Honstein: Not really, no. Do you remember any of your instructors and how they treated you? Very nicely, as I remember. I can't even remember his name, but he was my instructor in the PT-19.

00:37:24.940 - 00:37:40.340

How about your arm and check rides? They were usually very scary, I thought, 'cause you never knew how it was gonna come out. - Did any of your bayonets wash out?

00:37:44.260 - 00:37:58.500

- I think a couple did. - Do you remember how that made you feel? - Yeah, it made you feel kind of antsy. Yeah, I had a little experience when I got into AT-6s

00:37:58.500 - 00:38:16.100

where you flunked a checkride. So then, of course, you had to retake it again, and you had to retake it with the higher-up Army, whatever it was. It was the real stuff.

00:38:17.760 - 00:38:27.780

I passed that okay. So I don't know what had happened at the time. It was just either one of my off days or whether the instructor didn't like me or whatever it was anyway.

00:38:29.400 - 00:38:47.100

As I say, it was kind of a scary moment for me that I was going to disappear, but that was the only time it happened. Kelly: Describe for me the uniform you wore to fly in. Zoot suits, that's what we flew in.

00:38:49.760 - 00:39:02.860

They were overall, cover up, overall, one piece. Comfortable, but unattractive. [Laughter] I've got about a minute.

00:39:04.560 - 00:39:33.780

And then for dress wear, what was the uniform? Steele: It was a navy blue jacket, blazer-type jacket with brass buttons. We had a skirt for dress and pants for informals, I remember. Then we had a little flight jacket type of thing.

00:39:34.020 - 00:39:43.280

- Okay, and this was after you were issued the Santiago blue uniform, after you graduated, is that right? But in training--

00:39:43.280 - 00:39:55.240

- Yeah, in training, that's right, yeah. - In training, what did you wear for dress parades? - I don't remember, what did we wear? - Did you have tan slacks, maybe, and white shirts?

00:39:55.840 - 00:40:01.600

- Oh, that's right, you're right. - Oh, okay. - Tan slacks and white shirts. - Okay, you wanna cut?

00:40:08.120 - 00:40:28.740

Tell me about any cross-country trips you might have taken in training and what were you flying? Steele In training? Well we had to take a certain amount of cross-country trips, as I remember, to pass the training.

00:40:30.520 - 00:40:41.560

I don't remember anything particularly outstanding about any of them. You went from point to point. It was all around Texas. Kelly: Right.

00:40:42.440 - 00:40:56.480

Can you talk to us about the auxiliary field that you had to fly out of sometimes? Lowry: In training? Was there an auxiliary field? Kelly: Okay.

00:40:58.940 - 00:41:12.800

That's okay. While you were in training, did your family ever come to visit you? No. No?

00:41:13.210 - 00:41:25.560

Okay. When classes would graduate while you were in training, while you were an underclassman, so to speak, what would happen? What would the graduation be like?

00:41:25.880 - 00:41:39.980

What would your part as a trainee be in that ceremony? Steele: I just remember it was very impressive. My part was—I do not know, what did we do? We had to—

00:41:40.160 - 00:41:57.900

Kelly: Did you have to march? Steele: I guess we had to march. It is funny, I am pretty hazy about most of the details of training. Do you—as W-7 left, do you remember that specific graduation?

00:41:58.100 - 00:42:17.440

Kelly: Yes, I do. And at the time, when W-7 got the word that they were going to go into the training command rather than the ferry command, because it was the first time that any of the WASPs had been—were assigned to the training command.

00:42:18.640 - 00:42:51.680

And W-7, my close friends, most of them were going on B-25s either down to El Paso, Texas, or they were going out to march to some field in California where they had B-25s. And of course, the girls were all thrilled to death they were going to be on B-25s. Jackie Cochran had been working around trying to get the girls to do not only the ferry

00:42:51.780 - 00:43:21.440

command but also in the training command, meaning that the girls were going to be able to help relieve some of the men out of the bases who were training, say, bombardiers or gunnery or those kind of schools. It was certainly getting the girls into a better field than just relieving the ferrying

00:43:21.500 - 00:43:40.820

of the planes back and forth from factory to base or whatever they were doing there. This way, they were spread out pretty well all over the country, relieving an awful lot more men to go overseas. Kelly: Before your graduation, were you given an opportunity to choose what you would like

00:43:40.680 - 00:44:03.940

We were just told and that was it. Kelly: For these graduations, there were commanding generals that sometimes would come to these graduations. Were you?

00:44:03.940 - 00:44:16.000

Kelly: And I don't remember—do you want to know who came to our graduation? I don't remember. Kelly: While you were there, did Miss Cochran come to some of the graduations? Kelly: Yes, she did.

00:44:16.000 - 00:44:31.020

Kelly: Did you ever have any personal contact with her? Kelly: Just a little bit, not too much, but a little bit. Kelly: Do you want to tell us about that little bit? Kelly: Well, I just—you know, Jackie was quite a gal, and I admired her very much.

00:44:33.060 - 00:45:01.860

I do remember I became frustrated at one point after I graduated. I ended up staying in Texas at several fields there, and I was finally getting a little upset about the fact that I could never get out of Texas. I called Jackie on the phone and long distance to see if there was any way to get an assignment

00:45:01.860 - 00:45:15.780

to another place, and she was marvelous about it. She said, "I'll do what I can." And lo and behold, I got switched out to California. So I mean, there was a human side to Jackie.

00:45:15.940 - 00:45:25.840

Kelly: Ruth, tell me about your graduation. Did your family come? Steele: No. Kelly: Do you remember the graduation itself?

00:45:29.300 - 00:45:44.380

Steele: Not really. Kelly: When you left Avenger, what were your orders? Where were you going? Mellinger: I was going to Texas, to Childress Army Air Force Base, which was nearby Sweetwater.

00:45:44.460 - 00:45:59.420

Kelly: Did you have some time off to go home? Mellinger: Yeah, I think I had a little time off in between. Kelly: I forgot to ask you, how did your mom and dad feel about your learning to fly? Mellinger: I think they were very much for it.

00:46:00.420 - 00:46:17.320

Both of them, especially my father, in the flying world, as for—I think they were delighted. I don't think they were ever apprehensive about the fact. Kelly: When you arrived at Childress, were there other WASPs already stationed there? Lowdermilk Honstein Yes.

00:46:17.790 - 00:46:30.560

Kelly: To whom did you report? Lowdermilk Honstein To the commanding—whoever was the commander of the field. What were your quarters like?

00:46:36.300 - 00:46:51.380

They were perfectly, you know, a little better than the bays. As I remember, we had, I think, two to a room. We had rooms, and we had a roommate. It was like two to a room.

00:46:53.660 - 00:47:09.740

We lived in the officers' quarters, which was like the nurses. Kelly: Where did you eat? Lowdermilk Honstein We ate in the officers' mess. Kelly: I forgot to ask you, how was the food at the venture?

00:47:09.880 - 00:47:27.100

Lowdermilk Honstein It was passable. Kelly: Okay. At Childress, what was your primary assignment? So, teaching bombardier cadets—I mean, not teaching them, flying for them—they were

00:47:27.120 - 00:47:55.100

in training there and had their instructors that were teaching them how to drop bombs. And our big coup there was the fact that we were working with the Norden bomb site, which was very secretive at that point. And so actually, we were flying twin-engine Beaches, and the Norton bomb site, once you

00:47:55.180 - 00:48:16.240

got the plane up onto targets and flying around, the Norton bomb site, it took over. And then the bombardier who was working on the site was actually flying the plane at the time, because he was finding his target. Kelly: Then would he communicate with you as the pilot?

00:48:16.430 - 00:48:28.300

Lowry: Yeah. Kelly: On where to go? Lowry: He would get his—see, there was always an instructor, a bombardier instructor, in the plane with the cadets.

00:48:28.880 - 00:48:56.380

Of course, they were reporting to him and he was telling them what to do. We were just actually just sitting up there letting them fly the plane around. We had to, of course, get up to off the field and down back on the field again. Kelly: While you were in the air, were they actually controlling the flight?

00:48:56.880 - 00:49:07.360

Lowdermilk Honstein Yeah, they were controlling the flight. You had to be on top of them all the time to be sure they were not going to take you off someplace. You were not supposed to go.

00:49:07.580 - 00:49:13.340

Kelly: Did they control it from the bomb site? Steele: From the bomb site. See, it was connected to the airplane. Kelly: To the controls.

00:49:13.340 - 00:49:34.420

Steele: To the controls. Kelly: Wow. Steele: Not to the—let us say not to the actual rudder and stick, as it were. It took you around the targets, and if they wanted to go to the right to a certain degree,

00:49:35.220 - 00:49:42.740

The site took you there. Kelly: What was the crew like on that plane, Ruth? Did you have a co-pilot? Lowdermilk Honstein No.

00:49:43.060 - 00:49:54.080

You had nobody that flew except just you yourself, and you had about seven cadets and a bombardier's instructor. I think there were eight. Kelly: And how long would one flight last?

00:49:55.720 - 00:50:12.180

Lowdermilk Honstein Probably, I'd say somewhere between an hour and two hours. Kelly: And then what would you do when you ended that flight? Steele: Then you bring the plane back down and change a group and take another group

00:50:12.220 - 00:50:26.860

up. So you flew all day or all night, whichever. We had night missions, too. Some of the most interesting missions that we had, at least in my mind anyway, and those

00:50:26.660 - 00:50:46.220

Those were what they called the maneuvers at the end of the bombardier's training. You went out on maneuvers, and there were these satellite fields that were really like being out in the Thules. There were grass strips or dirt strips.

00:50:46.360 - 00:51:07.840

There wasn't anything paved, and everything hidden. So you lived in dugouts underground, and you went out there for about a week, a pair of five days, something like that, on maneuvers. And then when you'd come out to fly, come out of your dugout to fly, you'd do like

00:51:08.000 - 00:51:29.700

strafing and get down a couple hundred feet from the ground. And this was practice for that type of bombing, as it were. And the cadets had to bomb from that altitude instead of up high. It was called a strafing mission.

00:51:30.130 - 00:51:37.240

Kelly: Okay. Would they be strafing, for example, with cameras? Or were they using— Lowry: No, actual bombs.

00:51:37.240 - 00:51:41.920

Kelly: Actual bombs? Lowry: Yeah. Kelly: Oh. Lowry: Yeah, we had actual bombs.

00:51:42.780 - 00:51:55.440

I mean, the bombs they dropped on targets were actual bombs. Kelly: Where were they carried in your airplane? Reid: In the rear. You had so many pounds of bombs.

00:52:01.140 - 00:52:24.560

The exciting thing about it was, I think for the gals' sake, for the WASPs, the cadets, It was just before they graduated their last week of training. They were allowed to pick their favorite pilot to fly them on these missions, strafing and whatnot.

00:52:25.660 - 00:52:49.040

Nine out of ten choices were they picked the gals rather than the men. I think the reason being was that we were so dead set to make a good impression being ladies and the job, that we probably overly paid much more attention than the men did to really getting them in.

00:52:50.300 - 00:53:04.980

We flew the plane then, they didn't. You had to really get them down on top of that bomb site so that they could hit it, because that was their score if they hit it. The ladies were much better at that than the men as a whole, which I thought was exciting

00:53:04.980 - 00:53:17.240

for the ladies. Kelly: What did you do with your time off? Lowdermilk Honstein: Have fun. Kelly: Tell me about this fun.

00:53:17.240 - 00:53:37.460

Lowdermilk Honstein: Well, there was a lake outside of Childers, and we all went to the lake. We would have parties with the instructors, I mean with the officers and whatnot. We were allowed at that point then to associate with the officers.

00:53:37.640 - 00:53:47.820

It was not like in training where you were not allowed to. Kelly: Did you make any lasting friendships at that base? Steele: You mean of men or—? Kelly: Either.

00:53:49.340 - 00:54:02.340

Steele: Not really, no. Kelly: How were you treated by the other female personnel, the nurses or the WAC officers? There were not any WAC officers there, remember? Well, maybe there were.

00:54:03.080 - 00:54:22.080

I do not remember any of them, really, as far as I know. There was no bad treatment. The only thing was that I think in the very beginning, the cadets all had doubts about the fact that they had a female pilot.

00:54:22.280 - 00:54:34.980

I think they were thinking, "Well, this is not the greatest." By the time they graduated, that's what I say again about the maneuvers, that we were the top choice. Kelly: Do you know how long their course was?

00:54:35.230 - 00:54:53.020

Lowdermilk Honstein How long their course was? I think it was about two months, maybe. Kelly: Their assignments when they left there? Lowdermilk Honstein Were to go overseas and get on the big planes

00:54:53.020 - 00:55:11.040

and bomb. Kelly: What would your typical schedule be for a week? Lowdermilk Honstein: You flew, let's say, early in the morning until, say, sometime in the afternoon, you know, like eight hours kind of thing.

00:55:11.320 - 00:55:24.400

Or you'd have an afternoon flight for eight hours into the evening, or a night flight. Kelly: Did you request which you would prefer, or were you just assigned? Lowdermilk Honstein: No, you were just assigned. Kelly: Yeah, he was just assigned.

00:55:24.480 - 00:55:49.900

Kelly: While you were there, did you get orders then to go someplace else? Klemski: Yeah, you mean eventually. Yeah, then I got orders to go to Harlingen, which was a gunnery school. Before Harlingen, did you go down to Orlando to school, or was that after?

00:55:54.300 - 00:56:14.500

I think that was, I'm trying to remember, I can't remember. I think it was after. It was between Sweetwater, I mean between Childress and Harlingen. Kelly: Can you tell us about the OCS school in Orlando that you went to? Lowdermilk Honstein: Funny, I don't remember much about it.

00:56:14.650 - 00:56:24.860

Kelly: Was it a co-ed school? There were officers there also? Lowdermilk Honstein: Yeah. Kelly: What was the purpose of that school?

00:56:24.860 - 00:56:42.640

Do you know? Lowdermilk Honstein: Wasn't it for—was it for advanced instrument training? Kelly: Well, I think it was called—was it called Officers Candidate School, perhaps? Lowdermilk Honstein Oh, that's right.

00:56:42.640 - 00:56:55.460

Kelly: Were there other Air Force officers there that were training to be officers? Lowdermilk Honstein Yeah, but I mean, we weren't training to be officers in the military. I don't remember why we were there.

00:56:56.340 - 00:57:05.940

I just remember going there. Kelly: Okay. When you finished that particular school, then you were transferred to Harlingen, is that correct?

00:57:05.980 - 00:57:34.540

Tell me about arriving at Harlingen and what you did. Steele: Well, of course, when we arrived there, we were—I'm really pretty hazy on Harlingen. I remember Childress so much more vividly. Harlingen was just another airbase, and we went right into training on learning how to

00:57:34.660 - 00:57:43.740

fly a B-29. And we had to, of course, learn about towing targets and all the stuff that went along with that. Kelly: Okay.

00:57:44.260 - 00:57:59.860

I did not ask you, at Chilbris, were there any outstanding incidents that happened or anything interesting that you want to tell us about? Steele: Not really. Kelly: Okay.

00:57:59.860 - 00:58:20.340

Down at Harlingen, when you began training to tow targets, what were you towing targets for? Steele: For the gunners to practice—to learn how to shoot. You know, learn how to shoot.

00:58:20.880 - 00:58:30.180

Kelly: Okay. Can you describe one of those missions? Steele: It's funny. I'm very hazy about those missions.

00:58:30.730 - 00:58:42.500

Kelly: Were there other group ones there doing the same thing? Lowdermilk Honstein Yeah, there were. Kelly: When you finished that training, then where were you ordered to go? Lowdermilk Honstein That's when I went to March Field.

00:58:42.670 - 00:58:54.340

Kelly: Is that when you called me? Lowdermilk Honstein That's when I called Jackie and said, "I want to go to Texas." Kelly: Do you recall how you got to March Field? Lowdermilk Honstein Not really, no.

00:58:54.340 - 00:59:12.360

Kelly: Tell me about March Field and what you did. Steele: Again, at that point, we understood that the WASPs were being disbanded right after I got to March Field. Kelly: How did that make you feel?

00:59:13.110 - 00:59:36.680

Steele: Sad. The reason that they had given to us was that they just had no use for us anymore. They didn't come out and say, "Well, you weren't doing the job right." They just said, "Well, we just don't have any more use for you."

00:59:36.680 - 00:59:59.000

It's overcrowded, as it were. That I think was disputed, all that theory. And certainly, I know there were some bases that they never used the gals. They were stationed there and they sat there and barely flew at all.

00:59:59.880 - 01:00:18.480

They were just sitting there and being paid by the military, whereas there were other bases where they were using the gals all the time. I happened to hit where they were using the gals all the time. I was lucky because I put in a lot of hours at that bombardier school especially, and

01:00:18.660 - 01:00:36.560

quite a few at the Childers, I mean at Harlingen. But I know there were some feels, because I know some of the gals that complained about it saying, "Well, we just sat. We haven't done anything here.

01:00:37.860 - 01:00:55.000

they don't need us or else they don't want to use us. - Do you recall when you got your official uniform and what was that uniform like? - You mean the WASP uniform?

01:00:55.700 - 01:01:20.180

It was a, you know, very, a nice blue blazer with the brass buttons and we had pants, slacks. or we had a skirt to go with it for real formal occasions. And then we had flight jackets that were very nice.

01:01:22.920 - 01:01:38.640

Those of course we used when we were actually working at a base. Kelly: During the time that you were stationed at these bases, were you ever able to go home and visit your family? I went once, as I remember.

01:01:40.110 - 01:02:00.300

It was about all. Do you remember how you heard about the boss being deactivated? I think it was announced at the base. When you were deactivated, what did you do then?

01:02:01.880 - 01:02:28.100

Then I came home. I was at March Field, and I was only there about a month, and then came home. That was when I sort of felt like a lost soul around having been so busy. I didn't want to have to go back into the family's hold again.

01:02:28.520 - 01:02:49.080

That's when I started doing a lot of volunteer work. Of course, the war wasn't over yet. The war was still going on. So I obviously must have done some volunteer work around Denver for a while.

01:02:50.200 - 01:03:14.680

I took up skiing and decided to end up in Aspen. Tell us about the volunteer work you did with the college and the theater department. I did some volunteer work with the Denver University, which had a little theater that they put on productions all the time.

01:03:15.160 - 01:03:37.640

I used to help with that. Did you ever consider going into theater as a— No, not really. Kelly: When you decided to come to Aspen, tell us about the shop that you opened.

01:03:41.200 - 01:04:14.620

Steele: I came to Aspen in 1945, and that's just the same time that Walter Pepke was arriving here to rejuvenate Aspen, as it were. So it was very exciting to get in on the very beginning of all that. And I had a little house, bought a little house here, I mean, remodeled an old shack,

01:04:16.040 - 01:04:37.600

Aspen decided that Aspen needed some sort of a decent shop to where you could go buy a gift or buy a nice lamp for your house or something, because people were starting to kind of remodel their houses and do nicer things. I had a friend of the family's actually in Denver who had a very successful shop in

01:04:37.680 - 01:04:46.980

Denver of that description. She always was looking for new things and she said, "You wouldn't like to start a branch up in Aspen?" I said, "Sure, I'll take it on."

01:04:46.980 - 01:05:02.940

I've never been in the shop business, but we'll try. So I had fun opening that type of a shop here. Kelly: And you stayed with that shop for a couple of years, and then what did you do? Lowry: Then I got married.

01:05:03.570 - 01:05:12.340

Kelly: Tell us about meeting your husband. Lowry: I had known him before. I'd known him for growing up, actually. He was older than I.

01:05:12.400 - 01:05:33.020

He always thought of me as a little kid. We were friends growing up. Then, of course, lost contact as he went into the Navy. During my WASP years and that sort of thing, I didn't have any contact with him at all.

01:05:36.000 - 01:06:02.960

When we came back through skiing, actually, we both enjoyed skiing very much. His family lived up here in the summers. They were dead at that point, but he had the old family house up here and used to spend quite a bit of time during the time that I was opening the shop.

01:06:04.700 - 01:06:13.740

So then we decided to get married after a couple of years. What made you fall in love with him? What made me? Uh-huh. What attracted you?

01:06:13.740 - 01:06:24.220

What attracted? Yeah, what qualities did he possess that made you fall in love with him? Uh... I loved the idea of the...

01:06:24.380 - 01:06:31.800

He was interested... He had a ranch down in Carbondale, and I was... Just that type of life I was interested in.

01:06:31.980 - 01:06:49.900

The mountains and ranching and that sort of thing, I think probably was the main attraction. Kelly: Could you tell us about your wedding? Lowdermilk Honstein: It was in Denver, and the family had planned a big wedding as usual

01:06:49.930 - 01:07:03.880

as they did in those days. And it was going to be at the house. He had been married before, so we could not be married in a church, so we were married at the house like a Justice of the Peace type, in the family's house.

01:07:07.200 - 01:07:33.060

It was all set and whatnot, and I came in the shop here one time and got word that there had been an emergency call from the hospital down in Glenwood that my husband-to-be had been seriously injured. He had been tossed from a horse and had lit on his head and was pretty badly injured.

01:07:33.680 - 01:08:01.800

We had to call the wedding off for a week, and he got well. But then we finally got married in Denver, and then we went on a honeymoon to California. Then came back and we were building a house in Carbondale and moved in there. Then started raising a family, had five kids.

01:08:02.600 - 01:08:16.640

Kelly: While you were living in Carbondale, how did you spend your time? Lowdermilk Honstein: Raising kids. One right after the other. Kelly: Wow.

01:08:18.220 - 01:08:30.280

You had a ranch. Did you enjoy riding? Lowdermilk Honstein: Yeah, I liked riding. Kelly: Was he there most of the time?

01:08:31.460 - 01:08:50.600

He was there, yeah, he was there a lot of the time. And he had taken up flying just before we were married, because he had been married before and he was getting a divorce out in Nevada. So while he was getting a divorce out there, he took up flying himself.

01:08:50.960 - 01:09:22.100

He'd been in the—earlier, before he went in the Navy, he was in the—what was it?—the He thought that he was going to be going to flying when he went into service, but instead he was evidently too tall for it or something like that. He did not pass the physical to get into flying.

01:09:22.700 - 01:09:43.560

So he decided to get into the Navy, which he was on a P-2 boat during the Navy. What was I getting to? Kelly: Him being gone maybe some of the time with the ranch. Lowdermilk Honstein Oh, and so then he really was eager about

01:09:44.060 - 01:10:06.380

continuing his flying situation, which I was not. I had decided that I'd had many, many hours as a WASP, and I just didn't have the desire to really continue with flying myself. So he became the pilot of the family, and we had started out with a Super Cub on the

01:10:06.480 - 01:10:34.360

ranch, which we could land right there by our house. And then we went into a 180 Cessna, and then on into a twin-engine Cessna 310, and finally a 421, which is a nice pressurized Cessna. I of course would, you know, I'd help him fly at times, but I never really did much

01:10:34.460 - 01:10:51.740

flying myself, you know, alone. Kelly: As your children were growing up, Ruth, how were you involved with their activities? Steele: Well, what activity? You mean on the ranch?

01:10:51.830 - 01:11:13.560

Kelly: No, I mean, were you in PTA, or were they in scouts, or did you do volunteer work as they were growing up? I was never in PTA, and I did volunteer work, I'm sure, for their—around Carbondale. Kelly: Were they involved in sports?

01:11:14.430 - 01:11:25.920

So that—were you active as far as attending things that they did? Were any of those children interested in theater? Lowry: No. Kelly: Were any of them interested in flying?

01:11:26.580 - 01:11:48.040

Lowry: Yes. Two of them got their pilot's license, and they never kept up with it, but they got their licenses to fly. One of them, the second daughter, or third daughter down the line—we had four daughters

01:11:48.080 - 01:11:59.640

and a boy, and the boy was the second one, so about the third or fourth daughter down the line. I always had a funny story to tell. She got going on her solo finally.

01:12:00.520 - 01:12:22.280

She was flying locally here, and she got off on her solo, and she got down to some strange field that she had absolutely no idea where she was. This was her first cross-country trip. She had to get on the ground to find out where in the devil she was.

01:12:24.760 - 01:12:44.560

She took off and afterwards, she knew where she was and she thought, "Well, the only way to get home is to look for Mount Sopris," because that's that big mountain by Carbondale. She thought, "Well, if I can see Mount Sopris, then I guess I know I'm back home again." She said, "That's the last time I cared about flying."

01:12:44.560 - 01:12:52.060

They never really took to it. Kelly: How did you feel about their flying? Were you concerned? Lowdermilk Honstein No, no, I wasn't concerned.

01:12:52.180 - 01:13:14.580

I was just glad they were interested in it. Kelly: After you left Carbondale, had the children already left home at that point? Or had you moved to Aspen again? Lowdermilk Honstein Well, the children were scattered at that

01:13:14.420 - 01:13:25.180

point. Kelly: What made you decide to move back to Aspen? Lowdermilk Honstein Well, let's see, there would have been two of them were married by that point.

01:13:25.460 - 01:13:33.540

To move back to Aspen? Just the idea we didn't want to be in the big city anymore. Denver was getting big and overgrown. Kelly: Okay.

01:13:34.180 - 01:13:52.120

So from Carbondale, you moved back to Denver. Lowdermilk Honstein We were there for twelve years, and then decided that Aspen was really our home. The reason we had left here in the first place was that D'Arcy was president of the Aspen

01:13:52.300 - 01:14:12.140

Skiing Company, a corporation it was at that time. He had done that for many years. Finally Aspen became well known as to her, and 20th Century Fox decided to buy it. did not want to work for 20th Century Fox.

01:14:12.700 - 01:14:33.780

So he told him he would work for him for 18 months and then he was out. So the minute that he did that and his term, his commitment was over with, he wanted to get out of Aspen or this area. So we sold the house and moved to Denver.

01:14:36.860 - 01:14:52.520

decided that by that point, after being in Denver for ten or twelve years, we decided it was time to get back. Kelly: What did he do in Denver? Lowry: Nothing except his personal business.

01:14:52.520 - 01:15:02.260

Kelly: Right. How did you spend those twelve years? Lowry: In Denver? Not doing anything particular.

01:15:02.360 - 01:15:10.980

Kelly: Okay. Then you moved back to Aspen. Lowry: Yeah. Did you move back into your old house?

01:15:10.980 - 01:15:20.740

Steele: No, no, we built this house. Kelly: Okay. Then what have you done since then? What are you—

01:15:20.740 - 01:15:36.640

Steele: What are my major interests here? What have they been? Well I started the alcohol recovery unit up here, which is now closed, but I did it with St. Luke's Hospital from Denver, which I had been connected with down there.

01:15:36.960 - 01:16:08.960

By the way, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and so I haven't had a drink in 25 years. I went to a rehab center, and then I worked in Denver. You asked me what I did in Denver, that's what I did in Denver. I was volunteering for St. Louis Hospital for the Alcohol Recovery Center there.

01:16:10.940 - 01:16:35.080

Then I started one up here, and we had that for ten years here. It was quite a big success. I'm sort of sorry that it didn't continue. Kelly: What are your main interests now?

01:16:38.070 - 01:16:55.980

Lowdermilk Honstein: I've been connected with Anderson Ranch, which is an art center out—have you ever heard of Anderson Ranch? It's a well-known art center. one of the biggest ones, nicest ones in the country that have workshops for students that

01:16:56.880 - 01:17:15.000

learn pottery and photography and printing and woodwork, all that kind of stuff. And so I've been on the board of that for many years. Kelly: Are these students—do they pay to go to school? Lowdermilk Honstein Yeah.

01:17:15.000 - 01:17:23.760

Kelly: Okay. Lowdermilk Honstein Yeah, there's a tuition. Of course, they have scholarships, too, but there is a tuition there. Kelly: Where do you draw those students from?

01:17:23.770 - 01:17:33.740

Lowdermilk Honstein: All over the country. It's one of the best-known ones in the country. Kelly: Are you on their board? Lowdermilk Honstein: I've been on their board, and I'm now an honorary board member.

01:17:33.960 - 01:17:49.860

Still keep an interest in it, certainly. I've been on the board of the Aspen Historical Society and several things like that that have to do with the community. Kelly: Do you still enjoy riding?

01:17:50.170 - 01:18:05.740

Rowland: I do not ride very much. I do not ride at all anymore. I ski. Kelly: In looking back, Ruth, what qualities do you think that you had that enabled you

01:18:05.860 - 01:18:33.840

to complete flight training when many of your classmates washed out? Rowland: Probably just the determination that you had to do it. I would assume would be the reason. Kelly: As you look back over your life, and you've done many different things, what

01:18:33.940 - 01:19:04.320

is the one thing that you're most proud of? Kelly: Well, of course, family life is tremendous in my—I mean, raising five children has been my prime interest in life, and proud of the way they all turned out. I think they've all turned out very well.

01:19:04.650 - 01:19:46.080

Kelly: Could you now tell me about your children? The oldest one is now 53, 52. She's, no, she, yes, she must be just 52. We just had our anniversary in '53. She has done a tremendous job. She lives in Carbondale She's done a big job of stuff in the community here, such as being president of Leadership

01:19:46.200 - 01:19:59.640

Aspen and the Aspen Land Trust, and all those kinds of things. She's done very well. The boy who was married and just recently separated from his wife is now living down in Durango.

01:20:00.940 - 01:20:23.900

He's done well, and he's been in the field of pottery. There's a lot of things around here that he's made, which are great. And he's also in the agricultural field, which he loves. And then a daughter that those flowers just came from that lives in Vermont.

01:20:27.600 - 01:20:51.840

I have seven grandchildren, and she's raised three of them. She has one adopted one from Peru, who's a nice little fellow. Then Sharla, the girl, she lives in the Northwest now. She's had a very interesting life.

01:20:52.800 - 01:20:58.900

- I'm gonna stop for a minute, minute, minute. Or if you wanna stop, yeah. - Okay, I can, how about you all? - We're fine. - We're fine.

01:21:00.280 - 01:21:07.900

- Rolling. - Well, I need to change the video. - We're rolling. Okay, that was not Charlie.

01:21:09.720 - 01:21:21.160

- So, and then I have the next daughter. - Very nice, okay. We're rolling. - So then, the next daughter down the line is Charlotte,

01:21:21.440 - 01:21:34.620

and she has been doing a lot of things out in the Northwest. She's moved out there now, and she and her husband, 'cause they love boats, and they lead a great life out there.

01:21:34.940 - 01:21:45.820

We call her the real estate whiz of our family because she loves to buy houses, fix them up, and sell them for a million dollars, you know, a million more than she paid for them.

01:21:45.960 - 01:22:08.340

So she's in the unofficially real estate business. She has great taste and she has fun doing that. And then the youngest daughter, Ruthie, who lives here in Aspen and has two children. In everything here, she is a great sportswoman.

01:22:08.540 - 01:22:27.580

She teaches the Nordic team here. She used to do all sorts of things herself in the sports world. She worked for Ross et al. all over the world selling skiing for them and things like that. She's just a goer.

01:22:28.680 - 01:22:48.020

So as I say, I'm very proud of my family and of the grandchildren that they've produced. Kelly: As a grandmother, tell me about your grandchildren. Well, there's seven of them. The oldest daughter, Darcy, has two boys.

01:22:49.860 - 01:23:00.980

One just became 21, and the other one is—how old is he? They grew up so fast. Eighteen. He's about to graduate from high school.

01:23:01.470 - 01:23:21.580

Oh, pardon me, he's first year in college this year. The other boy works, he is a blacksmith and does a lot of the iron work that is done around here and around the Aspen area and so forth. He works for a company in Glenwood and does very well at that.

01:23:24.280 - 01:23:49.620

As I say, one just went into college. Then Lorne has three children and one of those is in college in Durango. The other one, Liza, who was about to go to Brown University in the east. She unfortunately broke her ACL bone the other day, had a week in her knee.

01:23:50.200 - 01:24:03.380

So she's deferred for a year to go, because she plays lacrosse. That's one reason that she wanted to go there. So they let her off for a year. She is going to be working.

01:24:03.500 - 01:24:23.560

She is coming out here, and she is in Russia right now. We keep getting email from her from there. She is doing a great job, actually, and very well thought of. Graduated with all sorts of honors from her Eastern prep school.

01:24:27.360 - 01:24:48.520

Then Lornie adopted a little boy from Peru. He's now ten, and he's a cute fellow. Then Ruthie, the youngest one, has two, Jenny and Simi. They are great athletes, both of them.

01:24:50.140 - 01:25:17.620

have been noted around the community for their athletic abilities. And they're pretty good in school, too. So they're good kids and well thought of. And they're fifteen and thirteen, so that's the size of them, but they're a great family.

01:25:17.700 - 01:25:35.520

Do you have any grandmotherly advice for those grandchildren? Well, you mean such as where they should lead on their lives to? Or how they do it? Or how they do it?

01:25:36.520 - 01:25:48.020

Well, as long as they continue to go the way they're going, I think that I do not have much advice to give them other than just keep up the good work. Kelly: Good.

01:25:49.480 - 01:26:10.960

Ruth, what do you think the legacy of the WASP will be? Lowdermilk Honstein You are talking about what should happen to them? Kelly: How should they be remembered?

01:26:11.540 - 01:26:43.600

How should they be remembered? Well, I have always been thinking about an idea some way or other where the WASPs that are with us today, if they could have some sort of a fund that would fund a scholarship for the kids that are interested in flying this day and age, and maybe a scholarship

01:26:43.780 - 01:27:04.560

at a place like Emily Riddle or something like that, where they would get complete flight training and continue on in the world of flying. Kelly: Could I ask you what your personal opinion of Chaplin and Cochran is, and what your opinion of the WASP program itself was?

01:27:04.700 - 01:27:22.020

Kelly: What is it? What do you feel the WASP program accomplished? Reed: I felt that it accomplished what it was set out to do. As I told you, I was in a busy place where it was relieving the men to go off.

01:27:23.580 - 01:27:45.680

We were certainly doing a lot of hours to relieve those men. I have no doubts about the fact that that helped, certainly. Kelly: What is your opinion of Jacqueline Cochran? Steele: I think she was a fine woman.

01:27:46.120 - 01:28:07.580

I think she was, let's say, brassy and got what she wanted. There are a lot of people I know that have criticized Jackie for being that way, but I think that's what she had to do. To do what she accomplished, I think you had to be that way.

01:28:10.520 - 01:28:26.120

When children of future generations are watching this, what advice would you give them to encourage them to succeed? Succeed in their lives? whatever they are doing.

01:28:29.420 - 01:29:03.860

I think that they should try to be involved in something that is of tremendous interest to them and do the best they can in that field. It doesn't necessarily have to be the flying world or whatnot, but whatever their interest is I think they can try to do the best that they know how.

01:29:08.900 - 01:29:22.680

This should be an inspiration to children. And I thank you very much. It has certainly been an interesting interview. Oh, well thank you.

01:29:23.460 - 01:29:38.440

Can I throw in one? Can I ask you, because you've lived a little longer than I have, what gets you through the bad times? How do you keep going when you have tragedies or when you have tough things to deal with?

01:29:39.600 - 01:30:14.680

What inspires you? What keeps you going? Unfortunately, I mean, I should say, pardon me, I should say, fortunately, I haven't had a lot of tragedies happen in my life yet. And if they should happen, I think the one thing that always will keep me going is my relationship with my husband and my family,

01:30:15.540 - 01:30:36.500

which has always been very, very close. And to have a really close family, I think, is the one thing that certainly would get me through anything like that. >> Do you have a favorite word? >> No.

01:30:38.960 - 01:30:44.880

[ Laughter ] >> No. [ Laughter ] >> Favorite word is no.

01:30:45.080 - 01:30:50.360

>> All right. >> That's it for me. >> Thank you. This has been great.

01:30:51.100 - 01:31:02.560

>> Well, thank you. >> I hope it hasn't been too long. I hope we haven't. It hasn't been too hard for you?

01:31:02.660 - 01:31:08.140

Oh, heavens no. Not uncomfortable? Not at all. I just wish I had a better memory.

01:31:08.280 - 01:31:14.000

You know, at this age, your memory goes... I meant to ask you a question. What? Set it on something?

01:31:14.480 - 01:31:26.480

No, I'm fine. Go ahead. Okay. Tell us about your interests. One of my main interests has been for many years is the Outward Bound School.

01:31:27.860 - 01:31:38.420

I was instrumental in starting the first Outward Bound School in the United States, which was in Colorado. Kelly: Wow. I would be very proud of that.

01:31:39.160 - 01:32:04.500

I have been, of course, the founding trustee of Outward Bound for many years, and it has been my main, actually main interest of, you know, in later life, as it were. It's very important in my life. Kelly: Tell us about the school itself.

01:32:04.500 - 01:32:29.680

Well, the school itself was started in England by Kurt Hahn. There was a group of people, mainly from the East around New York, who were interested in getting the Outward Bound started in the United States. They were helping to fund this idea of getting it going.

01:32:31.180 - 01:33:03.960

They were looking for places to start the first school in the United States. Two of the other founding trustees—one was Chuck Froehlicher and the other one was the one who started the Rocky Mountain School in Carbondale, John Holden—they were instrumental in looking up the spot to start the first school, which is in Marble, Colorado, above

01:33:04.240 - 01:33:22.480

Carbondale. So that appealed to the, sort of won the fancy of these people in the East, and that's where the first school, Outward Bound school, started in the United States. After that, there were five others that got started.

01:33:22.900 - 01:33:49.900

of course Colorado being the first, and then Maine was the second, and that's the sailing school, and then Minnesota was the third, and the Northwest School I think was the fourth, and the fifth is, they had one in Texas. So it's been a wonderful experience to be connected with Outward Bound.

01:33:50.300 - 01:34:26.120

Ruth, could you tell us the purpose of the mission of the school? The mission of the school is for the youth to be able to, or anybody actually, starting with the youth, to be able to find themselves, to survive in life and to know what they want, to challenge themselves. And it became so popular just because they were giving this to the students that they got into the adult world.

01:34:26.130 - 01:34:51.160

And of course now they have different courses for the industries in the United States, the big industries that go to Outward Bound, just to learn how to run your business. And what got you interested in it? We lived in Carbondale and we physically helped start the school.

01:34:51.160 - 01:35:09.820

I physically helped start the first school up there. I helped build it and helped... We had even the first director that we had lived at our house for a while before they could live up at the camp.

01:35:10.620 - 01:35:26.540

How does one apply to go to this school? They have other applications. It was run on the way the English started their schools over there, the way Kurt Hahn started.

01:35:29.460 - 01:35:43.440

I think the age limit was 16 to 22. You had to go for 23 days. that was minimum or maximum or minimum amount of time. And of course, that all has changed now.

01:35:44.040 - 01:36:00.220

They've changed the age limit. And they've gotten these, of course, other courses going. And my daughter Darcy, that I think I mentioned, has been very-- she's also been a trustee at Outward Bound.

01:36:01.720 - 01:36:21.380

And Charlotte worked for the-- another daughter, worked for the out rebound in Germany for two years. At the present time, what is the length of the school? There are many days, 14 days, 21 days, 28 days.

01:36:22.690 - 01:36:33.140

They have different types of courses, different lengths. And are all types people eligible to go to this school? Yes. You have to pass the physical.

01:36:34.320 - 01:36:49.480

And are there scholarships available? Yes, there's a big scholarship program available. So when I ask you, "What is the thing you're most proud of?" Would not this come to the top of your list?

01:36:49.500 - 01:37:04.220

Yes, it would. It certainly would. I said the family, but as far as an outside interest, Outward Bound certainly would be the top of the list. Did they know you were a WASP?

01:37:05.620 - 01:37:21.740

In the Outward Bound program, yes. That's great. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for putting it in. That's great! Oh, good. Well, I'm glad you're here.