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She talks and she does a lot. You knew she was inducted into the Minnesota Aviation Hall of Fame recently. That was wonderful. She was the star of the show. You should have seen her when she was up there. When she had that ride in the F-16, she said, "Oh, I just died and gone to heaven." She was like, "Oh, it was wonderful."

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She's so animated. I know it and everybody just stood up and clapped. And I think a third of the people there were her fans. Of course, we're right here with the 99s and the--

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>> Rolling? >> We're rolling. >> Okay. I'm Deanie Parrish and we're in the home of Mickey Axton in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

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She was a WASP, class 43-7. Today is the 31st of July, 2001. Okay, Mickey, if you would tell us your name, when and where you were born, and then tell us your story.

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Thank you. I'm Mickey Axton. I was born in Coffeyville, Kansas in 1919. That's down in the southeastern part of Kansas near the Oklahoma border, town of about 18,000.

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Had absolutely wonderful, adventurous parents. And the first time I saw an airplane, I wanted to be up in the sky. And I feel that I just am so blessed that I've had all this wonderful experience, something I really wanted to do.

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I was really very, very lucky that when I was just starting into junior high, 11 years old, my brother was nine, a barnstormer pilot lived in our block in Coffeyville. There were three brothers that had the Inman Brothers Flying Circus. And I'd like for you to see this.

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This is one of their posters, reduced size. Look at this, airplane rides for 50 cents, high, long ride for a dollar. At the time that I had my first ride, it was in a Curtis Jenney open cockpit, the type that they used to train pilots for World War I.

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Mother took the ride first. They flew over town to let the people know that they were there because we had no airfield and they landed in a pasture out east of town. Most all the people that could went out there to see what was going on.

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Of course, this was really new. This was 1929. Mother went up and then she said we could go up. All you had in an open cockpit was just a belt, like a seat belt in a car.

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When we rode, they said, "Do you want to do some maneuvers?" We said, "You know, sure." So the very first time, it did some loops and rolls and we were just hooked. All through junior high school we had rides whenever they were in town and they took us

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up first to show the people that the kids weren't afraid and then we sold tickets for them for a dollar. And we got to do it all through junior high school. And oh, I thought, "Oh gee, I want to be a pilot so badly."

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And so did my brother. So we were very, very lucky. And then, again, I was very lucky. All my life, things have just happened like I've wanted them to.

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I went to Coffeyville Junior College, and then I went to Kansas State University at Manhattan. I graduated there with a degree in chemistry and a lot of math and physics. I went home to Coffeyville Junior College, and at that time they were giving a civilian

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pilot training program. I'd like to tell you how that started. Jacqueline Cochran and Eleanor Roosevelt knew that we were going to be in a war eventually, and they started the civilian pilot training program for the men.

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They convinced General Arnold to let two women in each class of twenty, just in 1940. Before that time, there were only about 200 licensed women pilots in the United States. They ended it at the end of 1940 because then they made the men sign up to go into the Air Force so the women couldn't be in it.

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But there were 3,000 licensed women pilots at the end of 1940 from the civilian pilot training course, and I was one of the lucky ones. And here's another thing I can't believe. The head of the science department had been my chemistry teacher, and he knew me real

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well, and he also was teaching the ground school for the civilian pilot training program. But when I finished, he needed to be busy on the secondary part, where they were using WACOs. I already had a job at the engineering office, and they came to me and invited me to be an

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assistant professor at the junior college. I was to teach a chemistry course and be in charge of all the chemistry labs, and teach the aeronautics, the ground school that I just finished, because he was teaching the advanced.

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Can you imagine? Here I was trying to get a job as a chemistry teacher and all of a sudden I was an assistant professor in a junior college teaching stuff I really wanted to do. And after that year I married my high school sweetheart and we moved to Wichita, Kansas.

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My brother, soon as the war was—soon as Pearl Harbor—he volunteered the next day and was in the Air Force. And, oh, another thing I forgot. I wanted to tell you this picture is really something.

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And it's been in a lot of magazines. Is that okay? - Mm-hmm. - My 91-year-old great-grandmother

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was my first passenger in a low 50-horsepower cab when I got my pilot's license. My brother rented a Lescom, and we invited all of our relatives

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to come out and go for a ride. And she just loved it. She said it sure did beat covered wagons. She came to Caldwell, Kansas in 1860 in a covered wagon.

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My grandfather, big brave man, he'd been a U.S. Marshal and also the Chief of Police at Coffeyville where they had all those bank robbers. And he didn't want to go up in that little plane at all, but he couldn't get out of it after his mother had gone.

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And of course my mother loved it. And my father, he was a very brave railroad man. He was a switch foreman, you know, walking along the top of moving cars and jumping off and throwing the switches in rain and snow.

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But he would not go up in the plane at all. Anyway, this picture has been in a lot of things. Well then, Jacqueline Cochran convinced Arnold to take some women to England to prove to them that the women could fly anything.

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This is a good picture of a Lancaster bomber and a pilot. The women, twenty-five, went to Jacqueline Cochran and took them to England. They flew all the fighters and all the bombers under combat conditions. Many times there were barrage balloons.

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Sometimes the fields were strafed. A lot of times they could not use the radio and it was just really bad conditions. Only one girl was killed and that was because her propeller fell off and it was not her fault and she was killed.

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They proved that women could fly anything that the Air Force had by flying the British planes. She came back and convinced Donald to start the civilian pilot training program. Nancy Love had already started with the WAFs, and they were doing a good job fairing.

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But Jacqueline Cochran wanted the program to be set up just like for the men, a definite program where we were trained to fly the Air Force way just like the program of the men. But ours was more because all the men either went to be a fighter pilot or a bomber pilot, and we were trained for both.

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When we graduated, we were for multi-engine. So we had extra training in twin-engine planes. But I have to tell you, I was married and had a little one-year-old daughter when I I received the telegram saying that I was needed.

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At that time, my brother and twenty of his friends had flown right after they graduated. They had flown to Hawaii, and then they volunteered to go to Guadalcanal. This was in September of 1942. The Marines had just been there a couple of months, and the Marines controlled the jungle.

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They had Henderson Air Strip, but the Marines controlled the jungle, they controlled the air, they controlled the ocean, and things were just terrible. Just before I received my letter from Jacqueline Cochran saying I was needed, I had a letter from my brother from a hospital in New Zealand.

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He had been strafing in a field where he could damage a lot of planes and was hit by an aircraft. He was in the water fourteen hours before a sailor on a Navy ship spied him. This is another chance. The ocean there and those warm waters was full of sharks.

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When he bailed out of his P-38, he had the tail boom. It yanked off his life raft. He was just in his life jacket, bleeding, with sharks around for fourteen hours. We know that Angel saved him, there's no doubt about it, because that's just the way it was.

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And he had a cracked neck and he was in the hospital quite a while, but he eventually recovered and was in the war the entire time. But he said that eighteen out of the twenty that went to Guadalcanal with him, Air Force, they were the first Air Force to go down to help the Marines, and they were night fighters.

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And they did not have any fighters for him, so they took A-20 attack bombers, painted them black, and put on extra guns. And he had to use an attack bomber as a fighter. And at that time he had already shot down two of the planes.

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Three months later, they finally got some fighters. Most of them had been shipped to England. And he had P-38, which he loved, and that was what he was strafing all the fields with. But when I got that letter from my brother saying that eighteen out of the twenty that

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went down with him had already been killed. They were so short of pilots that it was just terrible. They needed pilots so badly that when I received that telegram, there was no way that I wouldn't go.

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My husband understood he was working at Beach and he had a good important job there. Beach was keeping him. He was a pilot too because they were making the AT-11s and the C-45s to train the bomber crews, the pilot, navigator, and bombardier.

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They kept him for quite a while. He understood that I had to go. My parents said, "Of course you have to go." And my mother and daddy, I knew that they'd take care of our little one-year-old daughter,

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that she'd be fine and she wouldn't remember it at all. So everyone thought I was crazy. They thought our marriage was on the rocks, and I didn't have time to explain it all. I had the telegram in March, and I was down there on May the 10th.

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I was so happy to be there and I wanted to graduate more than anything in the world. The first thing they did was give us—they had no uniforms for us and they had old mechanics coveralls, and I think they were all size 44 or larger. And that's what we had to wear in all of our training.

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We never did have a decent flight suit until we graduated. We had to wear these. And they were hot and awful. And gee, down there at Sweetwater, Texas, it was usually between 105 and 110, and no

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trees and metal hangers and metal link. And it was really hot. And you had to roll these up, and they were just terrible. And we were six in a bay with one bathroom between.

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Twelve girls were sharing one bathroom. No washing machines. We put our swimsuit on under these, washed them, and hung them out on the side on a hanger to dry.

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And that was all we had to wear for our flying. When we did have a graduation, we bought tan pants and a white shirt, and they gave us an overseas cap so that we would look good. And we weren't really in the military.

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Congress promised to militarize us, but they didn't. For everything, it was just like we were in the Air Force. We marched everywhere and did everything. Calisthenics had almost killed us out in that heat.

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Everything was—but we always sang and we were always happy, and we were just so thrilled to be there and to be flying, too, because we all loved to fly. This is a picture, my favorite picture, getting ready for primary training. That was in the PT-19A, beautiful open cockpit plane.

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And here we were to learn loops and rolls and spins and every evasive maneuver that the fighter pilots would have to learn. And we had to do them just right, too. When I was supposed to go up and do the loops and spins and everything, I always went up

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an extra couple thousand feet so I'd have a little more attitude to come out if I needed it. But I really loved doing the things I was doing and I was so happy to be helping. This is a primary trainer like we flew and a fair child and there's the ones that trained

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in my group were five with each instructor. Another thing we had to look out for after one girl started to get in her PT, she found a big diamondback rattlesnake sending itself in the seed. At Sweetwater, that's where they had the biggest rattlesnake hunt in Texas.

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They have a big one at O'Keene in Oklahoma that I attended and helped catch six rattlesnakes. The girls, when it was so hot, tried to pull their cots out to sleep outside, but there were rattlesnakes spotted in the area, so they told us we couldn't do that anymore. We always had to watch out for those because the main dens where they came were at the

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end of the field. We had our instrument flying in a BT-13, a Volte valiant. We also had to take Link. By that time, it was July in Sweetwater, Texas, like I say, hotter than Hades.

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It was in a metal hanger in a metal box. Sometimes the girls just passed out from the heat. I just hated the Link trainer. We all did.

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I really learned to fly under the hood. In the plane they had a hood they put over you so you couldn't see outside. And you had to go completely by instruments. Of course you always had an instructor or someone else in the back to watch for planes

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and everything. But that was pretty difficult because you didn't feel like you were going straight and level when you were. You just had to rely on the instruments.

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And you had to know that the instruments were accurate. And later when I was a test pilot I knew how important that was. And when we had to fly at night we always had someone with us. I liked night cross country but I didn't like it when about thirty of us were in the

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air at different levels, at different quadrants. I had to watch the instruments all the time. And of course I had someone in the back seat to help watch. I knew where I was, but I was not always sure they were all where they were supposed to

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be, and that was kind of scary. And another thing, we did not have electric lights on the field, we just had little oil pots for the field. And it was just one great big asphalt with white runways marked.

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And you had probably ten or twelve, and there were quite a few people taking off and landing at the same time. And another thing that was different for the men, they all went to a primary base and they were flying the same kind of plane.

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And then they went to a basic base and they were flying the same kind of plane. And then advanced, they were flying fighter trainers and bomber trainers. But we had to fly probably three or four hundred at the base at one time, flying four different kinds of planes at different airspeeds.

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And as far as I've heard, there was only one mid-air crash in that two years at that field with all these girls, always over 300 in training, flying twenty-four hours a day. And that was really terrific. And another thing that was just terrible for me, one night I was on the flight line waiting

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to fly as we all were, there were a lot of us waiting to fly. And a plane came in, a BT, and it stalled and crashed at the end of the runway and exploded and burned and those girls were killed. And we were there and it was just absolutely terrible.

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I mean everyone was crying and it was just terrible, you can't even imagine. And they kept all of us there and talked to us and made all of us fly that night. We went up with our instructor, but we had to go. And I remember crying myself to sleep that night and wondering what in the world I was

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doing there, you know. And just, it was terrible. But the next day I went out to fly and I think that I heard that one girl couldn't do it, but I'm not absolutely sure about that.

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But that was the worst thing that ever happened. But I wanted to graduate so badly that I cried myself to sleep quite a few nights. After that we were lucky and we got to fly in the beautiful, wonderful North American AT-6 that was the fighter trainer.

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And you were supposed to solo it in four hours, and boy, with all that power, you had to come in pretty quick and everything. It was sort of frightening, but I managed to do it. I think a few washed out, but afterwards I just loved that airplane.

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It was just a wonderful airplane. And we had training in that until we could pass the exams. Then all of us were trained in the Cessna twin-engine plane. And this is a picture, and there I am, and those are my classmates.

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Is that okay? And they called this the "Bamboo Bomber" and "The Widowmaker" and all kinds of planes, but I sort of liked it. But some girls washed out in this, and I'll tell you why.

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All the time we'd been flying these other planes with our right hand with a stick. And this plane, you had to fly with your left hand. You had two engines, and the gas was with your right hand. And besides that, you had to fly with a wheel.

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And gee, that was pretty hard when you've been flying with your right hand with a stick, And then you had to go to a left hand with a wheel. And it was awful hard to taxi too, you couldn't see out the front, you had to taxi back and forth with the gas to get where you were going and you hoped you didn't run into someone.

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But out of the 105 of us that started, our class graduated 59. That was one of the happiest days of my life. I just wanted to graduate and help my brother and help the war and fly for the Air Force. They still didn't have uniforms for us.

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This is my graduation picture. Is that okay? I was still 23 and they didn't have uniforms so we had to buy a men's shirt and pants and that was all we were going to wear and have them tailored to fit us.

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They gave us an overseas cap and that's what we wore. Smile, Mickey, hold it up and just smile. Okay. There you go, thank you.

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Jacqueline Cochran was there and General Blount, and we marched and everyone marched. My mother and father came and brought my little girl. She was a year and a half. And they held her up and let her touch my wings.

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That was a really proud, happy day. But Beach wouldn't let my husband come. They were working all the factories and lots of women were working eleven hours a day, seven days a week.

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The only day they had off in the year was Christmas. And they couldn't be absent from work unless they had a doctor saying they were really ill. So he couldn't come for my graduation.

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But after we graduated, we did have a week that we could go home, so that was really good. So those were the main things in training. We had wonderful cooks that fed us really well, even though it was hot, and the uniforms

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were terrible, and everything. We always sang and were happy and cried when our bay mates washed out. Tommy Comptons and I were the only two to graduate out of our bay of six. And when those girls washed out, they were just devastated.

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And we were too. I will show you and tell you, I was in class 43W7, and that was the last class that the girls were just in the Ferry Command. Before that, they all ferried planes.

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With my class, General Bounce said, "We need girls just everywhere to do other jobs besides ferrying." I was chosen to be an engineering test pilot and to be sent to Pecos. The job there was to test planes that had been damaged and repaired or planes that the

00:25:00.840 - 00:25:14.560

pilot said something was wrong. We had to take them up and determine what was wrong and have them repaired and then fly them. And that was kind of tricky, you know, because you had to—and all the instruments, we had

00:25:14.560 - 00:25:32.660

to check them, and none of the men could fly them unless we okayed them. But that was the job I was sent to do. This shows the picture, and it's a wonderful picture of a P-38 in the Ferry Command. They threw all—our girls threw every fighter the Air Force had and all the bombers.

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Another job that was pretty dangerous was towing targets like this. They mostly used old B-26s. This was a canvas sleeve, and they would roll it out different lengths for different altitudes. The thing that was so bad, they were training anti-aircraft fellows.

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A lot of them never even shot a shotgun. They didn't know anything about leading. Several times the planes were hit, and can you see this? And they had them out at the Air Military Museum, and they are big, and they shoot big

00:26:15.780 - 00:26:33.360

shells, and it was live ones too. And sometimes they hit the plane, but on this one time, and we didn't know this until later, one hit an engine. She brought the plane down, it was on fire, and she was not able to get out and was killed.

00:26:34.200 - 00:26:54.220

But because they had to tell that it was just a regular accident, because if the Congress or if the public had known that our men were shooting down women and killing them, that would have been the end of our WASP program. And we were needed desperately, I mean, to get men to go to combat.

00:26:54.920 - 00:27:09.280

General Arnold said he wished he had had ten thousand of us early in the war, because we were so short of pilots. And they couldn't let anything happen to this program, so we didn't know anything about this until the Freedom of Information.

00:27:13.240 - 00:27:31.400

And they found out quite a few things then too. But this was one really important thing that they had to cover up because it would have just been an instant, the end of the program. And these are some of the girls that were down there at Camp Davis.

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I think there were about forty or fifty that did this. And my friend Liz Strophus, that you're going to talk to, she did another really dangerous job and she'll tell you about it. Out at Las Vegas, she flew a B-26 and towed a big target sleeve behind her for fighter

00:27:53.160 - 00:28:10.700

pilots to try to hit the target sleeve to train how to shoot down planes. And several times the planes did get holes in them, but I have never heard that any girl was killed in that job. Then we come to my job, and here are the three of us.

00:28:11.920 - 00:28:29.980

Audrey Tardy, is that alright? I'm in the middle, and this is Tommy Tompkins. And I'll tell you a little bit about Tommy. Tommy was married, her husband was a pilot, and he volunteered for the RAF when they were

00:28:29.980 - 00:28:44.840

having so much trouble. After the Battle of Britain, they had lost 900 of their top pilots and they just needed fighter pilots desperately. And fighter pilots from all over the world were going to help them, and her husband was

00:28:44.940 - 00:29:01.380

one and he was killed. And when she heard about the WIASA program, she paid for her own flying to get in. And she was a wonderful, wonderful girl. And since she'd lost her husband and I was married and had a baby, when they had parties

00:29:01.900 - 00:29:16.940

when they could go at the other bases, she and I always went into town and went to a movie or the beauty shop or went swimming, because we weren't dating or anything like that of course. And we were really good pals and we were glad that we were sent to the same base.

00:29:17.940 - 00:29:31.020

And the man I replaced, he said he was sure glad we were there. He wanted to get to combat. He said if he was going to get killed, he wanted to get killed with some glory. He didn't want to get killed down in Texas testing airplanes.

00:29:31.420 - 00:29:46.000

That's the truth. You know, they were anxious to go to combat and get the war over. And most of the men were really glad for us to take their place in any job they had. And it was a dangerous job.

00:29:46.640 - 00:29:58.940

And here we are in our flight suits and helmet and goggles. And they did give us the jeep. We just had a terrible old barracks. It was the winter and there were cracks in the walls and really cold.

00:29:59.060 - 00:30:08.300

So we did not go back there. We could go to the officers club for dinner and we would stay there until time to go to bed because it was so cold. It just froze you to death to take a shower.

00:30:12.480 - 00:30:30.400

These were the girls. Well, I already had that. Anyway, I'll tell you about my frightening experience. After one of the girls had a forced landing, but it wasn't serious and she was able to

00:30:30.420 - 00:30:47.360

make it back to the field, we decided we better do something to help protect our life. And we decided to take the chief mechanic of the repairs with us. And a lot of them were tickled because some of them were washed out pilots, and when we finished testing the plane, we let them fly a little.

00:30:48.460 - 00:31:07.660

But this time I was in a twin-engine Cessna and had the engineer in the back and flying it by myself. I took off, and I didn't have over three or four hundred feet of altitude when my engine started sputtering and the engine quit.

00:31:09.440 - 00:31:27.320

I knew that I didn't have trouble. I didn't have time to trim the plane and do everything I should. I just said a quick prayer. Somehow I didn't spin in and crash like you're supposed to when you lose an engine.

00:31:27.510 - 00:31:41.900

You just go in. Everybody knows that. But I didn't. I knew I couldn't come all the way around because you can't keep a—UC-78, it can't

00:31:41.980 - 00:31:49.600

hold its altitude. I knew I couldn't make it. I called the tower and told them I had to come in crosswind. I had enough altitude for that.

00:31:51.800 - 00:32:03.500

And they were calling—I could hear the sirens. They were calling the ambulances and the fire trucks and everything, and they were yelling, "Clear the field, clear the field, emergency coming in crosswind." Everybody was getting out of there.

00:32:03.920 - 00:32:15.360

I had some room. I couldn't land straight out because it was low scrub. I would have crashed completely. And brought the plane in and crossed wind and didn't scratch it a bit.

00:32:15.680 - 00:32:31.480

Just all okay. And they came over to get us out. And the mechanic in the back couldn't move. He was white as a sheet and just practically paralyzed.

00:32:31.480 - 00:32:48.100

They had to go in and lift him out and carry him out. He was so frightened he thought, "Sure, he's going to die." I was so busy doing everything I had to do and talking to the tower and trying to keep the plane, because I didn't have the power in that engine and bringing in and everything.

00:32:48.240 - 00:33:10.440

I was so busy I didn't have time to be frightened. But that was, and I will tell you honestly and truthfully, that I said a quick prayer and I had instant reaction help. And I know, and everybody said, "There's no way when you lose an engine that you're not

00:33:10.450 - 00:33:24.820

going to go into an immediate spin. If you have plenty of attitude, you can recover and you have time to trim it and do stuff." But I didn't have time. And that's a lot of times crashes are caused by that because you have an engine failure

00:33:25.000 - 00:33:45.880

on takeoff. And it just falls off and goes right into the ground. And I'll tell you right now another time that this happened for me. Later in 1991, I'll tell you this right now since I'm on this subject, it was the second

00:33:45.880 - 00:34:00.860

time I've been invited to speak for the Navy graduation of Navy and Marine pilots at Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. And it's really a big affair. It's so important for all the pilots that graduate.

00:34:01.140 - 00:34:13.720

I mean it takes them six years, four years of college, and two years of everything. And it's so important. And all their parents were there and all the Navy brass and the city officials. It's a great big affair.

00:34:15.160 - 00:34:29.640

And I was in the ballroom and I'm talking way down at the very end and I felt like I was going to throw up when I was up there. I just knew I was going to. And I just said, "Please God, help me."

00:34:29.640 - 00:34:48.660

I was okay. And just two or three seconds and on the screen, the picture, I knew where it was and I told Wayne right there. And I was okay and when it was all over I started feeling bad again and I told him that

00:34:48.660 - 00:35:08.200

we'd have to leave. And I was sick as could be and was just from nerves. But my prayer was answered immediately. And I'd like to stress that because when my husband died I had on these earrings and

00:35:08.200 - 00:35:28.680

He couldn't talk very well, but he told me he had a room full of angels. And afterwards they named that the Angel Room at the big Wesley Hospital in Wichita. So that is a real important part of my story. Now we come to the in between.

00:35:30.320 - 00:35:55.640

I was a mother and took care of the kids, but when my son was in junior high school and everything was okay, I went back to teaching. The vice principal had been in my class at the Coffeeville School, and when I applied for a job there, he said, "Well, you've got to hire her because we're supposed to have

00:35:55.700 - 00:36:17.660

debate." She was on the debate team, and a good debater, and she can teach debate, and we don't have a debate coach and she can teach all the chemistry, you know, science courses. So they just hired me right away and I started teaching biology and general science and coaching

00:36:17.740 - 00:36:23.380

debate. And it was a start. None of the schools had debate at that time. We were the first one to start it.

00:36:24.520 - 00:36:45.740

And they won second in the state. I drove them all over the state in the winter and everywhere, eight kids in a big station wagon if you think that wasn't something, eight talkers. But anyway, in the next year, they said, "Well, we want to have an—I told them we ought

00:36:45.760 - 00:36:58.620

to have an aeronautics class." He told them I could teach it. And so I talked to them out at the university. They had stopped having the ROTC program where they were training pilots, so they gave me

00:36:58.420 - 00:37:12.280

all their books. So I started a new course, first time in Wichita, of aeronautics, and had all the best students. And that was wonderful. I was still coaching debate.

00:37:14.780 - 00:37:32.040

And then we were real lucky, I'm lucky all the way. One of the kids' dad was a glider pilot and another one had an auto agency. And down at Winfield they had a big airbase that was just empty. They had a few businesses there.

00:37:32.560 - 00:37:43.740

It wasn't far from there. And they said, "Well, we'll teach your students how to fly gliders for free." So can you imagine? All this just falls in my lap.

00:37:44.580 - 00:38:02.900

And so we were going down there in the evenings, and I flew some gliders, and I thought that was really great. And my husband, he was a pilot too, and he said, "I want an engine." And I said, "Well, gee whiz, down here in Kansas, all these big fields and pastures,

00:38:02.980 - 00:38:20.940

you can bring it down most any place, you know, with those big wings." But I was really lucky, but then later in the year, I was hit by a kid going about 60 miles an hour and ran through a stoplight. And I was injured and had to stop teaching, so that program came to the end, and that

00:38:20.900 - 00:38:43.200

put an end to my teaching because I was ill and so nervous that when I tried to go back to teaching I just couldn't do it. But anyway, after we went to the air show at Sweetwater in 1986, I don't know if you there or not.

00:38:44.360 - 00:39:05.280

But anyway, the air show was put on by a group of Confederate Air Force from New Mexico. My granddaughter took my daughter and my granddaughter with me. My granddaughter was eight months pregnant. We met these people.

00:39:05.580 - 00:39:23.720

They were all going out to a ranch for a big barbecue, just like those cattle trucks just about was going to be over a rough road and she couldn't do that. So we went out to the air base and we got really well acquainted with the civilian CPT people from the Confederate Air Force.

00:39:24.440 - 00:39:39.440

And they said, "Well, come on, we'll take you for a ride." So my daughter went up and this is a picture of her in one of the BTs that's painted like the Taurus Squadron with Gene Armstrong. And he, by the way, flew in Pearl Harbor movie in that plane.

00:39:39.840 - 00:39:46.100

He was one of the Japanese pilots. We ought to show that one. Let me show you. >> Maybe I can do it later.

00:39:46.340 - 00:39:50.220

>> Okay. >> Let me stop. That's okay. >> I'm taking it because of my pregnant granddaughter.

00:39:50.260 - 00:39:59.080

>> Okay. >> Now, can you see this? >> I can. >> And this, Gene Armstrong, he flies in the Confederate Air Force Tora Tora Squadron.

00:39:59.160 - 00:40:18.000

Now, I think they have 18 planes that are painted Japanese with the rising sun, and part of them are the dive bombers and that's the one, the BTs, and the AT-6s were painted to be like the Zeros. And they put on a fantastic reenactment of Pearl Harbor.

00:40:18.660 - 00:40:27.260

And he flew in the new movie Pearl Harbor. He was one of the Japanese pilots. And I read about it, that he was flying in it. So that's really interesting.

00:40:28.540 - 00:40:35.700

And my daughter had her ride in it. Are we through now? You got a minute? Do you want to talk for a minute?

00:40:35.990 - 00:41:06.980

OK, I'll tell you one more thing about that. We were out there the next morning to ride, and they were having a parade down at Sweetwater that morning. And they had made arrangements for us to come out that morning, and he said, "Well, we'll just go over the parade." So we came in and we kept it at minimum a thousand feet, but we got to buzz the parade

00:41:08.040 - 00:41:35.760

and we did it twice. But the funny part is one of the fellas was flying a Stinson L-5 that they used for all kinds of observation planes or also they could pick up a wounded person off the battlefield. But anyway, he saw how pregnant she was and she was just standing there when we were getting

00:41:35.860 - 00:41:49.780

ready to go on the other planes and looked so sad and he said, "Come on honey, I'll take you in my plane and we'll fly real nice and easy." And he went over to help her in the plane and she just climbed in so fast that he didn't he knew to help her.

00:41:50.740 - 00:41:58.140

And that was such a wonderful experience for them and we were the only three that got to go up. Anyway, afterwards... We're going to have to...

00:41:58.140 - 00:42:01.900

Oh, okay. We're running out of film. Are you two? Okay.

00:42:02.480 - 00:42:06.500

But that's okay. We got plenty of film. Okay. I'll make sure to get it.

00:42:07.900 - 00:42:22.460

I'm rolling. A wonderful, wonderful thing happened that has made my life just terrific ever since then and giving back World War II airplanes to me, they invited me to join the Confederate Air Force.

00:42:23.140 - 00:42:33.680

It is pretty expensive, but my husband said that would be the best thing in the world for you. And it was. My life has just been absolutely fantastic ever since then.

00:42:34.360 - 00:42:52.080

And they have been so wonderful to me. This is a picture early in this. This young man was in college and we had an air show and he saw one of those Tora planes. He said, "I'd give anything in the world to ride in that."

00:42:52.080 - 00:43:06.640

And they had their banzai on their head and everything. And it was one of them that I knew from down in Texas. And I went over and I said, "This young man, he wasn't even in the Confederate Air Force, but he wanted to be.

00:43:06.700 - 00:43:19.900

He couldn't afford to yet. And he liked to ride in this the worst way. And I went over and told him. And after the ride, he rode in it where they had the reenactments, you know, and the bombs

00:43:20.020 - 00:43:31.960

going off and all kinds of things. And he came over and he absolutely got on his knees and kissed my hand and said, "Thank me. That was the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me."

00:43:31.960 - 00:43:45.020

I'm not kidding. And look at him. And then he managed to get together a World War II outfit and our things. He dressed as World War II, and we all took up money to help him get in.

00:43:45.700 - 00:44:01.940

And he became one of our best members after he graduated. He went to work at our museum, and five years later he was the manager and the president of the Kansas Aviation Museum. He went up that fast.

00:44:02.880 - 00:44:20.180

So that was wonderful. We helped him get started on his career. And in 1991, the B-29 was coming to Wichita, Kansas for a big air show, and that was a really big thing.

00:44:20.340 - 00:44:35.140

And they called and invited me. They said, "Mickey, get on all your helmet and goggles and your jacket." Of course, I didn't need them, but they wanted me to be properly dressed. and we're going to let you fly the B-29.

00:44:35.440 - 00:44:56.200

We're going to fly you out to Garden City and let you fly it halfway back." I couldn't believe it, so my husband, we grabbed everything and went out there. These pictures, this is one of the most wonderful pictures of the B-29, it's Fifi, and it's the only one in the world still flying.

00:44:56.660 - 00:45:10.800

They are restoring another one down at Wichita. Boeing retired employees are mostly restoring it. But Fifi's been the only one flying for a long time. And it was such a wonderful honor to be invited.

00:45:11.320 - 00:45:36.060

And Boeing sent their top photographer along to take these pictures. And there I am. Back in 1944, I forgot to tell you that Mother became ill and I had to resign and I went home because I had told them when I signed up that if something happened that my mother

00:45:36.140 - 00:45:48.840

couldn't take care of our daughter, I would have to resign because I wouldn't let anyone else take care of her. So Jacqueline Cochran understood. So we went home and I hired a lady to live with us and take care of her.

00:45:49.460 - 00:46:07.800

I went to Boeing, and because of my experience in being a test pilot, I was hired into engineering flight tests. And at that time, in May, on May the 4th, while I was at Boeing, and I was on the plane—and the plane is still top secret, most of the Air Force didn't even know anything about

00:46:07.800 - 00:46:22.040

it, they didn't have it yet—I was back in the blister watching, because the engines caught fire quite often. I was watching that and the chief engineering pilot called and said, "Mickey, come up to the flight deck."

00:46:22.040 - 00:46:38.560

When I got up there, he gave me the left seat and let me fly it for about thirty minutes. Can you believe that? They couldn't say a word about it because it's all top secret. I have all the documents to prove it, but I never say anything about this to take anything

00:46:38.600 - 00:46:59.860

away from the girls that flew it later when they took it off and landed it. I just flew it some in the air, but I was still the first woman in it and to fly it. That was such an honor, but like I said, there couldn't be any publicity about it. They had the battle, what they called the Battle of Kansas in May, after I was in the

00:46:59.940 - 00:47:15.900

plane, where they were trying to get them ready for the Air Force in June to fly them to India. They had hundreds of men working, because at that time they hadn't worked out the hydraulic system, they hadn't gotten so they could feather their props, and they were still having engines

00:47:15.960 - 00:47:28.280

catch fire. And you know that, even when the girls were down there later in the year, I don't know whether it was September, October, whenever it was, it was after this, the men didn't want to fly it because the engines caught fire.

00:47:28.760 - 00:47:49.640

And General Tibbets had to teach them how to take off to keep the engine from catching fire and also how to put it out immediately, which they did. And after that, it just shamed them into it. But when I was in the plane, it was pretty dangerous, too, because they hadn't worked

00:47:49.740 - 00:48:02.180

out those things. It was an experimental test. So I was really lucky, and that was another reason. And this shows—this is good—it shows the Norton bomb site that most people have never

00:48:02.540 - 00:48:16.140

seen. And the other person that they let fly it that day was the flight leader of the B-1 bombers. And this is an interesting story I'll tell you.

00:48:16.760 - 00:48:39.180

Of course, when we came in, why the regular pilots had to land it, neither one of us was supposed to. It took thousands of hours to be capable of doing it. But anyway, they called the Wichita Tower and the Air Force Tower, about three-quarters

00:48:39.220 - 00:48:52.460

of a mile apart. And they radioed in ahead of time and told them we were coming when they asked permission to buzz the field. And the Boeing employees were all on the roof, and the Air Force guys were all out in the

00:48:52.460 - 00:49:07.380

open. And when we came over real low in that B-29, you can imagine, this is 1991, he yelled out, "Eat your heart out, guys!" And it was really something.

00:49:07.800 - 00:49:21.300

He was so thrilled. But isn't that a terrific picture? And we were so honored. And then we went out and landed at the field, and I think half of Boeing was out there to

00:49:21.180 - 00:49:37.700

greet us and the media and everything. That same day, General Tibbets was there and he was selling his book. He and I were interviewed on TV. That was just fantastic.

00:49:37.990 - 00:50:00.520

I couldn't believe how honored we were and everything. I just couldn't believe that I got to do that. Another thing that happened that was just wonderful for me, I went to a WASP reunion, a small one, down at - Wayne and I spent our winters down by Corpus Christi.

00:50:01.300 - 00:50:19.280

And I went to about a small reunion down at Corpus Christi. We were staying at Rockport, and there was a journalist there. And after we had our meeting and everything, he said, "Are any of you still flying?" And I was the only one in the Confederate Air Force that was getting to fly.

00:50:19.680 - 00:50:36.880

I was in an airplane, he always let me fly it. So he interviewed me, and in the interview I told about how we didn't have insurance and when the girls were killed we had to take up collections to send them home, or Jacqueline Cochran did, and they couldn't even have an American flag.

00:50:38.160 - 00:50:56.360

And when I went home I had a phone call from George Wilson, who was the commander of the And he said, "I read your article and I wonder if you would come and speak for the graduation of our Navy and Marine pilots." I could not believe what I was hearing.

00:50:57.440 - 00:51:13.900

And I said, "I would be so honored." And I told him that we came there in the winter and he said, "I'll send you the list and you can pick the time and we really want you to come and if you can have it in about fifteen minutes."

00:51:13.900 - 00:51:34.040

Whatever you want, I'll just be thrilled to pieces." I knew that was really something, a woman in the Air Force too. My husband did take me, and this picture is of the graduating class, and there were two women in it.

00:51:34.840 - 00:51:54.320

This is George Wilson, and I'm down here. It was all just wonderful. I had to be there at eight o'clock to spend a couple hours with the graduates so we could get acquainted and just talk before they graduated, not just so I didn't know them.

00:51:55.020 - 00:52:09.820

And then we were all at a big luncheon. And six of my WASA friends came from San Antonio and two from the local area to be with me and give me support. And that was just wonderful.

00:52:10.040 - 00:52:36.540

And they treated us to a tour and a luncheon and then afterwards there was a big dinner. And just like, you know, it was just absolutely wonderful. And then they invited me back for the next year. And the next year was when I told you about, and after I spoke then, and we pinned all

00:52:36.540 - 00:52:51.680

the graduates, he came over and pinned gold Navy wings on me, which I'll show you later. I could not believe that because I knew that women couldn't, their wives couldn't wear their Navy wings. Only a Navy pilot could wear Navy wings.

00:52:52.660 - 00:53:16.020

And the fact that their fighter trainer was the same as ours too, the SNJ was the AT-6, but that wasn't the thing. He and I had had a chance in my talk to thank him for saving my brother's life too. And they invited me back and they pinned those wings on and I said, "Well, can I wear them?"

00:53:16.030 - 00:53:32.420

He said, "You can wear them anytime you want to, that you've earned them." I cannot believe that. I just can't believe the wonderful things that have happened to me. I'm so happy and grateful.

00:53:34.480 - 00:54:00.920

And another wonderful thing happened. When the lady became the head of the Air Force, and I can't even think of her name now, at Omaha they had a big Air Force Association banquet, and General Erschler, Reg Erschler, that flies Gunfighter II, and he is the former commandant of the Strategic Air Command, and

00:54:01.500 - 00:54:16.700

our very good friend. He had us invited. We weren't any of the officers of the WASP, but we were ones he knew in the Confederate Air Force, and we were the ones that were invited and honored at this huge banquet,

00:54:17.020 - 00:54:33.480

and it had all the top Air Force brass and the Air Force band. And they introduced us and we sat at the head table and they gave us corsages and then afterwards they gave us the flowers from the table. And my husband took us but he wouldn't go.

00:54:33.480 - 00:54:52.280

He didn't want to go to banquets or anything. But we sat with all the top. And I wanted to tell you, this is my really good friend. She flew AWACS in Desert Storm, the big plane that was like a control tower.

00:54:53.140 - 00:55:10.460

We became acquainted and we gave several talks together. She could not get over the flight suit I had to wear when hers was so beautiful and fit. We were invited to be the main speakers at the grand opening of the Kansas Aviation Museum, which was really nice.

00:55:10.740 - 00:55:25.040

I spoke first and then introduced her and she spoke. And then we spoke for about three after that and we became really good friends. And she didn't want to keep flying big planes so she left the Air Force and joined the Air National Guard.

00:55:25.820 - 00:55:37.380

And she is now the flight leader of F-16s at Houston in the Air National Guard. How about that? And I said, "What do the men think about it?" And she said, "Oh, they think it's fine.

00:55:37.480 - 00:55:51.940

They didn't want the responsibility." And of course they could be sent to combat any time. And I am so proud of our wonderful, wonderful women. A lot of wonderful things have happened to me.

00:55:52.040 - 00:56:12.640

I could not get over when I first moved up here and did not know a soul in anything. But Liz told some of her friends, she was going to California to look after Mickey. And then they had their big, important Winter Carnival Parade. And it's one of their biggest of the year.

00:56:13.720 - 00:56:26.220

From out Fort Snelling, and the Air National Guard, they called and said, "Hey, would you like to ride in our F-4 Phantom jet float in our Winter Carnival Parade?" And I said, "Oh, how wonderful! I'd just love to!"

00:56:26.220 - 00:56:53.420

And this was a picture taken and a lot of the Air National Guard marched alongside. And I can't do it anymore because I hurt my hip throwing my leg over the side. But that was a wonderful honor and experience and it was so much fun too because they had the Air Guard ahead and they were playing aviation music and the people were just clapping

00:56:53.420 - 00:57:09.260

and everything when we came along and they were marching alongside. And there I was in the front cockpit of the F-4 Phantom jet. It doesn't have its engine and its wings, but it's a big float. And things just keep happening.

00:57:09.600 - 00:57:29.020

I give one or two talks a month, and I have talks clear up through April, and I've been doing that for over two years up here to roadies and Chamber of Commerce and to schools, churches, any group that asks me. I never turn anyone down.

00:57:31.440 - 00:57:51.200

I get wonderful letters and one group, I haven't even talked for them, but they invited me to represent World War II at Veterans Day last year and I did. I didn't have to talk, I just had to stand up and say hi. And they sent a hundred dollars to the World War II Museum in my honor.

00:57:51.320 - 00:58:13.200

I showed you the picture and I had the letters and I thought that was wonderful. I'm going to speak for them in September. And I've had quite a few nice articles and everyone is so nice. And just this last two weeks I've been out at the Flying Cloud, a big air show.

00:58:13.960 - 00:58:36.620

and I have papers on the table and pictures and we talk to everyone that comes by. And then this last weekend they had the big military expo out at Fort Snelling and it was too hot outside for me so I stayed in the cool Air National Guard Museum and I had a crowd around for six hours talking to people.

00:58:38.360 - 00:59:07.540

And I have one other thing that I just have to tell you and I don't even know where the picture is. But two years ago, my Confederate Air Force in Wichita, Kansas, they spent nine years restoring, can you find the picture over there? Is that in? They spent nine years, thousands and thousands of volunteer hours, these people are so dedicated to finding old

00:59:07.520 - 00:59:35.940

planes, just piles of junk and restoring them, so we can teach World War II history, airplanes of World War II and the history, so people and the young people will know about it. And this beautiful airplane, as a primary trainer, PT-23, they found it in Waco, no, Victoria, Texas, been crushed, just a pile of junk in the back of a barn.

00:59:36.040 - 01:00:00.800

They brought it home in a truck and I said that'll never never fly. It's beautiful passed all the tests and on It's maiden flight. They unanimously named it. Miss Mickey after me I could not believe when they called me on the phone and they were all laughing with that 10 of them and said You now have a plane named after you we named it. Miss Mickey. I just sat and cried and

01:00:01.060 - 01:00:15.060

And it's so beautiful. And I haven't even been able to get in it because I went to Midland and I was having hip trouble from getting in that F-4. And they had to take me out in a wheelchair because it was so far out there I couldn't

01:00:15.320 - 01:00:33.020

walk. But I had the t-shirts with Miss Mickey on them, and I had my son and his family, their four generations, and all eleven of them had on Miss Mickey t-shirts. And we still didn't get them to the airplane, but we had the pictures.

01:00:33.860 - 01:00:52.540

So that plane is supposed to be out at Fleming Field for our big 60th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, the biggest air show they've ever had here. And it's supposed to be here, and I certainly hope it does, because I want pictures with all our friends taken besides that.

01:00:52.860 - 01:01:18.160

And I feel, and I am the luckiest girl in the whole wide world. I'm 82 and a half and I still can lap swim and I walked all winter and I've been going dancing lately and I think that helps. And I feel really good and I hope I can keep going a while because I'm going to, I get

01:01:18.220 - 01:01:35.660

my talk sitting on a stool. It hurts me to stand too long, but it works out fine. When I taught for those little kids, it was just wonderful, little first grade kids. One of them wrote on the letter, he said, "Thank you, Miss Mickey, for saving the world."

01:01:35.660 - 01:01:53.140

It was so cute. Every one of them came up and hugged me. They asked good questions, and they were really interested in World War II history. I let them wear my helmet and goggles and my Air Force A2 jacket and everything.

01:01:53.360 - 01:02:05.260

And that was so rewarding and so wonderful to have all those little kids that interested. And I'll keep doing it as long as I can. And I sure thank you. Thank you.

01:02:05.880 - 01:02:10.740

Mickey? Wonderful. How much film do you have left? We've got twenty minutes.

01:02:10.920 - 01:02:21.460

Okay. On this stage we've got more. So let me go back and begin when you were born, because I think children need to know what motivated you.

01:02:21.460 - 01:02:24.200

Is this being recorded? Uh-huh. Okay. Okay.

01:02:24.300 - 01:02:31.320

If that's okay? Sure. So if I can go back and sort of take you through your life. Where were you born?

01:02:31.600 - 01:02:38.040

Coffeyville, Kansas. About 18,000, a really good town. Okay. Tell me about your mom and dad.

01:02:39.580 - 01:02:59.460

My dad, his family came from St. Joe, Missouri in a covered wagon. They were going to Oklahoma, and they all had some kind of awful flu down at Coffeyville. And so they stayed there. And Coffeyville was named after Colonel Coffey, a colonel that helped establish the town.

01:03:00.680 - 01:03:17.140

And I think my dad was only about twelve years old then. I don't know the exact dates. As soon as he was sixteen and old enough, he quit school and my grandfather went to work on the Missouri Pacific Railroad.

01:03:17.280 - 01:03:27.920

Coffeyville became a big hub of railroad. Railroad was really the thing then. They had the Santa Fe, the Katy, and the Missouri Pacific. And he went to work as a switch foreman.

01:03:28.860 - 01:03:40.600

As soon as my dad was sixteen, he went to work for the railroad to help support the family. And my dad was really a whiz at math. He could help me with courses he hadn't even had.

01:03:40.680 - 01:03:49.960

He would have been a terrific engineer if he had the education. He was also an outdoors man. He loved to hunt and fish. Mother was very adventurous.

01:03:50.220 - 01:04:06.360

I told you my grandfather was a U.S. Marshal. And when he came to Coffeyville, they tried homesteading in Oklahoma, but it didn't work. And that's where my mother was born. No, mother was born in Caldwell, Kansas, but my aunt was born in Oklahoma.

01:04:07.260 - 01:04:20.180

But he became a chief of police. Now this was back in about 1910. And that was when they were having a lot of bank robberies. And a lot of them would rob the banks in Kansas and then come down to the border and go into

01:04:20.240 - 01:04:39.380

Oklahoma and hide in the hills. And the police would come and get my grandfather to help them get him. And at that time, Mother said they had dirt streets and high boardwalks. And when they were kids and they knew there was going to be a gun battle or some trouble,

01:04:39.460 - 01:04:59.160

well, they'd go down and hide under the high board fences and watch, and then they'd get in trouble. But later, when my mother was about sixteen and she had a brother that was two years older, Uncle Harold, he went from riding a horse to, they came out with a Harley Davidson motorcycle.

01:05:00.240 - 01:05:19.000

And her brother, she did everything her brother did just like I did, rode the motorcycle. And sometimes she rode it when she wasn't supposed to. And she knew how dangerous it was, and one time she was hurt. And that was the one thing she told us kids.

01:05:19.920 - 01:05:34.660

I mean we knew we weren't supposed to smoke and drink and all that stuff, but the main thing was absolutely as long as you live here and we support you, you are not to get on a motorcycle. And that's what we told our kids and that's what my son told his kids.

01:05:35.580 - 01:05:48.240

Even though when my son graduated from college the first thing he did was buy a motorcycle. But he told his kids when they were bigger, no motorcycle. But we helped our son buy a car. We thought he'd have one chance of living.

01:05:49.200 - 01:06:14.440

What are your earliest remembrances of your childhood? The earliest remembrance I have, and I was only, I had to be four, Mother said, because we moved after that, was the ice cream wagon coming by, and it was pulled by a horse, and a little one, he rang a bell, and I remember going out and getting ice cream with Mom.

01:06:15.160 - 01:06:28.440

I remember that. And I also remember going to a neighbor to get haircuts when I lived in this place where we only lived until I was four. And so I remember those when I was four, and that a lady across the street was always real

01:06:28.480 - 01:06:43.120

nice and would bring me little dolls. But I remember everything after we moved. My folks bought a house, a bungalow. They knew that they were going to build a new high school and junior high, fine ones

01:06:43.180 - 01:06:57.140

with swimming pools and everything. And they bought out there at the edge of town, the streets weren't paved yet, and it wasn't modern yet until later. But that's where they wanted to be, so we were just a block from the grade school and

01:06:57.200 - 01:07:07.780

two blocks from the junior high and high school. So they planned that really right. And I just love school. Where did you start school?

01:07:09.380 - 01:07:17.280

This is Coffeyville. McKinley. McKinley Grade School. And I had wonderful teachers.

01:07:17.430 - 01:07:25.100

Do you remember some of those teachers? Uh-huh. Did they have influence on you as a child? Oh yes.

01:07:25.860 - 01:07:38.200

And I, of course, when I went to school I already knew how to read and write and everything Mother taught us. As you were growing up. But she wouldn't let me skip any, but I started early.

01:07:38.820 - 01:07:55.640

As you were growing up, what was it Christmas like in your home? Well, we had all our Christmases at Grandma's when we were growing up. I'll have to tell you, I was the oldest. My brother was two years younger, and then I had four boy cousins, so you can see why

01:07:55.700 - 01:08:09.540

I was a tomboy. I was the oldest, and anything they could do, I wanted to do better. I mean, climb higher in the trees, climb the cliff better, dive. Anyway, I tried, and I was always getting hurt, too.

01:08:11.220 - 01:08:32.840

And another thing only my brother and I did when we were older, and my husband wouldn't do it, he was very brave too, but we in Coffeyville, it has high bluffs along the river and our bridges are pretty high. Most of them are these big metal bridges that are only about a foot wide and the river maybe

01:08:32.900 - 01:08:49.940

is down sixty feet and like at Atchison, we had a picture of the old railroad bridge and And that big high bridge when you go in, real high, probably another twenty, thirty feet up. And my brother and I would take off our shoes and we'd climb up there and then we'd stand

01:08:50.000 - 01:09:01.020

up and walk across those bridges. And none of our other friends would do that. And Mom and Dad could be down fishing and they wouldn't pay any attention to us because they knew what we were doing.

01:09:01.880 - 01:09:19.860

But that's the kind of thing, of course I was in high school and junior college when I was doing that. Let's go back to your Christmas and talk about your grandparents. We always had my grandparents.

01:09:20.580 - 01:09:34.660

And where did they live? They lived at the edge of town, and Grandpa had about an acre, raised flowers and raised horses and he was the night superintendent of the Sinclair Refinery. But he was a hunter and a fisherman, all of us were.

01:09:36.120 - 01:09:53.360

Anyway Christmas, all of us were there and all of us kids slept on the floor and they thought we were asleep and they were fixing the tree and everything. But all the time I was growing up, that's where we were. And later, we spent part of our Christmas at my dad's family, but my grandmother died

01:09:53.360 - 01:10:09.580

when I was only about six years old, and Grandpa didn't pay much attention to us. So it was later that we had Christmas, part of Christmas there. And then much later after I was married, we spent part of it with my husband's family. We were all good friends.

01:10:09.820 - 01:10:16.820

I was really lucky. And it was just a wonderful Christmas. We had lots of presents. Do you remember any special presents?

01:10:18.320 - 01:10:40.200

Well, I remember getting a special present was a scooter, which I skinned my knees a number of times. And then I remember roller skates, new roller skates were a special present. And I remember some heavy ski pants when I was older that I really wanted, my aunt gave

01:10:40.320 - 01:10:51.900

me. And I even wore those at college because it was so cold up at K-State in the winter. And I had big lace boots that I really liked. They weren't special presents that I wore in the winter.

01:10:52.840 - 01:11:10.160

And we couldn't ski or anything, but we had Dad build a big sled that we could just pile up by our six-line and go down a big hill and pull it back up. And that was lots of fun. And then we had a regular sled that Mom would take us out in the country and pull us behind

01:11:10.240 - 01:11:21.360

the car. And we'd try to ice skate, but we never had - we couldn't skate on the river because we We did not have good enough ice, but I remember falling in several times trying to skate on ponds.

01:11:22.200 - 01:11:41.240

They were safe ponds because they dry up in the summer and we knew they were not deep. When they would freeze over in the winter, Mother let us skate on those. I loved everything out of doors. I went to Girl Scout camps and I had junior life saving.

01:11:42.200 - 01:12:06.080

college I passed senior life-saving and I was a lifeguard at the pool in the summer two summers and I also entered swimming and diving contests and I didn't always win in swimming I did pretty well but I did real well in diving because very few girls would dive and then there was only one other one

01:12:06.020 - 01:12:19.180

that would dive off the 25-foot tower. And even though we had swimming instruction at school, but we didn't have diving instruction. We just had to watch others and try to do half-gainers or backjacks or whatever.

01:12:20.200 - 01:12:38.600

And all the different towns around Coffeyville would have contests, and they'd give prizes. And my friend, her dad, or my mother would take us, and we'd win all the diving contests because we were the only ones that'd enter. Even if we didn't know how to do it, we'd try.

01:12:39.800 - 01:12:58.320

And once I knocked myself out and blacked both eyes and cracked my nose when I was trying to do a half-gainer, my knees came up and hit me. But I was only out just cold water brought me to. As a young child, where did you spend your vacations?

01:12:58.520 - 01:13:10.040

Did you get vacations? We didn't have vacations, but we had vacation all the time because my dad just -- my grandparents had a big tent. We had a rowboat out on the Verdigris River.

01:13:11.640 - 01:13:28.960

And Dad would say, "I think the extra men need some time." So he'd lay off and let them have two or three days every month. And then on weekends when we had extra time, we'd always go out to the river. And the people out there at the farm where we went had a horse.

01:13:29.080 - 01:13:46.220

We'd ride horses and learn about everything at the farm. And at your grandfather's, did you also ride his horses? He didn't have horses, no. He raised special dogs and had a big garden, and they had a huge rose garden and gladiola.

01:13:48.480 - 01:14:02.320

Mother always did volunteer work. Back in those days, you know, you couldn't work if you had a husband that was working. But anyway, she made beautiful sprays and floral arrangements and made extra money that way.

01:14:03.580 - 01:14:21.380

And we'd go up there and the kids would play and we had lots of room. We were close to the river, too. And her volunteer work, what else would she be involved in? She did everything for the PTA and at that time during the depression they were always

01:14:21.480 - 01:14:41.080

taking kids to get clothes and she always did that. I went with her lots of times and we were taking food out to them and they did that year round and bought clothes. During the war she worked at the USO and the Blood Mobile and all her life she did every

01:14:41.180 - 01:15:00.280

type of volunteer work that was needed. And when we had floods, she'd go out to the levee and they'd take food and things to them. And we always had a big car that we could take a group. I remember once we had a great big Buick with side glass and it had a jump seat so we could

01:15:00.280 - 01:15:18.560

put a big pile of kids in. And before we had our municipal pool, we had a pond out at Friends that was a nice clear pond and we'd go out there swimming and she always would take a carload of kids. And she'd take us out to, we had a big, I hope you call it, big hill.

01:15:19.280 - 01:15:30.220

And it was a big bluff and of course all that was under ocean at one time and we'd find fossils. And that was fun. They had a brick plant below to get the clay out of the hill.

01:15:30.940 - 01:15:42.500

And we did a lot of climbing. Tell me about being a Girl Scout. What did that mean to you? Oh that was very important to me at the time and I had a wonderful leader.

01:15:44.060 - 01:16:07.180

She was my English teacher that I just loved and she was the leader. I loved scouting and everything in it and I went to camps every year. I started out at a local camp before I was a scout up at Big Hill above the river. We swam in the river and had people around the dangerous place and had this big hill

01:16:07.060 - 01:16:26.680

all the climbing, that was wonderful, and campfires and everything. When I was in junior high and I was working on all the badges, I went to a big camp in the middle of Kansas that was down in a canyon. All the cabins, one was like a castle and one was like a school room and everything.

01:16:27.480 - 01:16:45.280

That's where when I was twelve I passed my junior life saving, and I was real proud to wear my junior life saving badge. And then the other two years I went down to Ozarks, once into Arkansas where the water was icy cold, and you just dive in and just swim to get out as fast as you could.

01:16:45.920 - 01:17:08.420

And that was wonderful, that was down by Lake Tanacoma on the White River. And then another time I went down by Joplin at a big scout camp. Oh, we learned so much, all about birds and the trees. I made it to first class, but then after I went to high school, I stopped scouting because

01:17:08.540 - 01:17:27.080

I was too busy in the pep club and the dramatics and debate and all the other things that I did. I did not go ahead and finish scouting, but it was a wonderful part of my life. When you went into junior high school, were you in the same building as elementary school

01:17:27.080 - 01:17:35.120

or did you change? Oh no. The McKinley School was one direction about a block, and then I went the other way about two blocks.

01:17:35.660 - 01:17:48.780

And my future husband lived right across the street. They built a beautiful big brick house where they could just look out on the football field was there. And we knew each other and went all through school from the third grade, and we were good

01:17:48.980 - 01:18:01.700

friends. We, you know, we roller skated and we rode bikes and we went swimming, and we were good friends. when we were seniors in high school in art class while we started dating and fell in

01:18:01.770 - 01:18:12.860

love. What were the qualities about that young man that made you fall in love with him? Well he was just wonderful. Every what.

01:18:13.620 - 01:18:31.780

He was, I'd always liked him because he was always so nice and fun to be with and we always had a good time and but we were always in a group. I didn't really start dating until I was in high school. We did everything a bunch.

01:18:31.880 - 01:18:46.700

Mother would take us to the roller rink up at Independence before we had one, and we did things in a neighborhood group pretty much. We always liked each other a lot, and did a lot of things together, but not as special dates.

01:18:47.860 - 01:19:06.720

Let me ask you about junior high school. When you were in junior high school, what were your ambitions? Well, in junior high school, that's when I was getting to fly quite a bit, and I was really hoping that I would be able to fly later, but that was just like a dream.

01:19:07.580 - 01:19:26.860

I loved to draw, and I thought maybe I could go to art school, but we had relatives in Chicago and went to the Art Institute. And while we were there, I was just young, probably eighth grade. I talked to him and found out that it was so expensive that I just forgot about that.

01:19:27.680 - 01:19:39.620

And then when I was debating, I just started a little debating in high school, I mean junior high, ninth grade. But I was in plays more. My husband was in plays.

01:19:39.620 - 01:19:51.100

We were in plays together, too. That was nice. One specific play? One play was Spring Dance.

01:19:53.300 - 01:19:59.880

And I like that. Were you the ingenue? Yeah, I had the lead in the plays. Of course, I thought so.

01:20:02.920 - 01:20:22.800

And I remember that. We were, I had a busy schedule with everything and I always, where all you had to do was carried five solids, four solids in high school. I carried five all the time and I took all the tepis courses and that kept me from being valedictorian. A friend of mine just took

01:20:22.980 - 01:20:47.520

the least and got all As and I had trouble making an A in typewriting. Anything where I could study and do it, but I swear by timing and coordination, there was no way on earth I could type 30 words a minute, so I got a B. And because I had a B, even though I had a whole lot more A's than he did, he got to be validated, which wasn't fair because

01:20:47.640 - 01:21:08.340

I took all the hard subjects and a lot more, but I couldn't get an A in typing. And then I did all this extra stuff too. I was busy all the time, but Mother was in favor of everything. I didn't have to do any housework because she was back for me to do all these other

01:21:08.460 - 01:21:25.860

things. Tell me about your high school prom. Well, I went to the high school prom with Wayne, but then he had to play in the band, so I danced with everybody else.

01:21:26.140 - 01:21:42.720

And he got kind of mad, but he came over afterwards. I told you, he had a band when he was in high school. He was a businessman, and when people were working for 25 cents an hour, and I'm not kidding, my first job at Sears, I made 25 cents an hour.

01:21:43.380 - 01:22:06.060

And at Woolworths and Crestons, they were only getting 19 cents an hour. But the band members were getting five dollars a night to play, and he was getting ten dollars. And that's how he could afford to have a car, and we could have dates, even though Most of our dates, his folks had a bakery, and he worked there for nothing.

01:22:06.840 - 01:22:29.880

We had to go down and he had to get the bread sliced and packaged, and I rolled cinnamon rolls and we listened to Count Basie out of Kansas City. There was a really good jazz band coming on, and then we'd maybe have an hour. I had to be in at midnight so we could be together, but we had fun a lot of times.

01:22:30.400 - 01:22:50.220

But at the prom, I was with some of the - I hadn't been going with him too long and I still had a couple other boyfriends that I danced with and he'd just glare at me, but he knew he could come over later. So it wasn't too great, but Mom and I were in charge of the decorations.

01:22:50.440 - 01:23:02.340

My mother was an artist. She painted a beautiful picture and a sweet picture and everything. She was just wonderful. But every time we had a—they always had all the dances in the gym back in those days

01:23:02.420 - 01:23:18.840

and had to be all decorated and the tables had to be just beautiful. They always made me chairman of the decoration committee because they knew my mother would have all the ideas and she would help us and the committee would go over to my house and make all the pretty programs and decorate and everything.

01:23:19.420 - 01:23:35.680

And Mom loved it because we just had everything beautiful. And Mother also was a wonderful seamstress. And I always had a one-of-a-kind beautiful dress for every party. And when I was at college, every time there was a big party and I was in a sorority, we

01:23:35.760 - 01:23:58.300

had a lot of them, she'd mail me a beautiful new dress and it always just fit. So I was really lucky. And I helped all of our relatives when they were sick because my brother was always in some other country.

01:23:58.450 - 01:24:13.100

He was a Boeing representative to England and Denmark and India and Yemen. And they were never here to help us. And my husband's family, they were gone too. So we've been through a lot ourselves.

01:24:13.900 - 01:24:30.560

Right. And you keep, are you rolling? And I've heard you say about four, ten times that I'm lucky. I am. Do you really believe it's luck? No, not necessarily. I just say that. I'm fortunate and blessed.

01:24:33.080 - 01:24:44.720

Carol, did you get the message? The conversation. Okay. Right. No more, you know, you don't have to worry about it here. Okay. No, it's just good. And it really and truly, if you want to stop time, you're in charge.

01:24:45.000 - 01:24:54.440

Okay. I think I was asking you about your high school graduation. Did you have caps and gowns? Yes. We had a big high school.

01:24:54.660 - 01:25:09.460

There were, at that time, I think there were 325 in our class. I told you that— You almost were valedictorian. My chemistry teacher was madder than I could be because I wasn't valedictorian because

01:25:09.520 - 01:25:24.740

I had so many more subjects. But just that one B in typing, it didn't matter that all much to me. Did you know when you were a senior in high school where you were going to college? Had that already been decided?

01:25:25.540 - 01:25:41.740

No, I decided that when I was in junior college and I had such a wonderful chemistry teacher and he was from there. And was the junior college in your hometown? Yes, it was only ten blocks from my home and that's where I learned to fly, at the junior

01:25:41.840 - 01:25:53.560

college. But I did that after I graduated from college in 1940. But that's what influenced me and I majored in chemistry because he was my favorite teacher, my favorite subjects.

01:25:53.780 - 01:26:04.180

LW: Right. When you first learned to fly, what was the first airplane that you got into to have instruction in? CF: Fifty Horsepower Cub.

01:26:04.360 - 01:26:20.380

LW: Do you remember your first flight and how you felt? I was just absolutely thrilled to pieces. Did your mom and dad know you were going to fly? Oh yes, and they were all for it because my brother had already been in the class before.

01:26:21.680 - 01:26:34.380

See, I was at college and they were writing and telling about all he did. And so as soon as I came home for the summer class, I signed up. And there were quite a few people signed up, but they chose me. They knew me real well.

01:26:34.540 - 01:26:48.320

went to junior college there. And they kept track of what I was doing at college. Did you know any other girls who were flying when you began to fly? Just one.

01:26:50.500 - 01:27:09.340

And she didn't do anything with it afterwards that I know of. I lost track of her. Tell me about your solo. Well, of course, on soloing like that, you had to shut off the engine and come in.

01:27:10.200 - 01:27:28.020

We didn't ever make any power landings. You had to be sure that you were shutting the power off the right place so you could come in. I just remember having to be awfully careful.

01:27:29.140 - 01:27:54.080

Another thing, our airport was on the top of a hill, and just before the end of one end of the runway was a great big sunken garden. We had to be sure that we were above that so we didn't come in—you know, when we were coming in from that direction—that we landed far enough in for the runway, because

01:27:54.080 - 01:28:05.280

we were supposed to glide in all the time. We were not at first doing power landings at all. They were teaching us to do power off landings and cut it off here and turned and then came in.

01:28:06.120 - 01:28:21.820

But I never was afraid at all. I just loved it. I really did not want to come down. Anything at all unusual happen while you were learning to fly that you recall?

01:28:24.000 - 01:28:37.900

Not anything while I was learning. Where was Wayne when you were learning to fly? He was in my same class, but he wasn't out there at the same time I was because he was working in the bakery during the summer, and he had to come out after work.

01:28:40.540 - 01:29:07.560

I learned to drive a car at the same time I learned to fly because most people just had one car, and everywhere I could go I could walk or Wayne could take me because the town wasn't that large and the schools were close and I liked to walk anyway. But it was too far out there and my brother had a Model A rumble seat and that was fun

01:29:07.560 - 01:29:20.980

to drive. So I learned to drive at the same time I was learning to fly. It was out in Big Hill about, oh, probably five or six miles from our house. Where were you in school when you and Wayne decided to get married?

01:29:22.380 - 01:29:39.700

you finished? Yes, I had graduated and I was teaching. We decided to get married about Christmas and then we announced our engagement at my sorority house on Valentine's Day in 19-alpha delta pi.

01:29:40.240 - 01:30:03.060

They were having a big Valentine's party and he was working at Wichita then at Beach. He drove there and I had some friends that took me up and then we drove back together. We met up at Manhattan and then we drove back to my home. Do you want to tell us how he proposed?

01:30:06.620 - 01:30:31.360

Well, we'd known for some time that we wanted to get married, but I don't remember exactly. he already had a ring and it was this shortly after Christmas and and he Can you tell us about your wedding? Oh we had a beautiful wedding it was in the Methodist Church and mother made a

01:30:31.380 - 01:30:54.780

white satin beautiful gown with the about a six-foot train and it was fitted and had little tiny buttons and all down and pretty sleeves and veil and everything. I had four bridesmaids, a mixture of honor, and they were my best friends. And the mother made their out of pastel colors.

01:30:55.450 - 01:31:15.120

I have pictures of it. And it wasn't expensive at all because I told you my grandparents had rose gardens and all the flowers. And so we had all the flowers everywhere, just beautiful. And Wayne's parents had the bakery, and they fixed a great big beautiful cake.

01:31:15.940 - 01:31:36.480

And it wasn't very expensive, but it was a wonderful wedding. And then we had the reception out by the airport because they had a big log cabin that people used for parties. And I had a gorgeous, my aunt lived in India for a while, and I had a gorgeous banquet

01:31:36.560 - 01:31:48.360

cloth that was cut and drawn with all that gorgeous work that the, well it was made in China really. She traveled in China. And the table was so beautiful.

01:31:50.100 - 01:32:03.540

And it was really nice. And then we went to, we didn't have very much money, and we went to Roaring River for our honeymoon. And we hiked and we swam and we went fishing and we just had a wonderful time.

01:32:04.000 - 01:32:18.860

When did you get married? June the 1st in 1941. I graduated in 1940 and I just taught that one year and then we went to Wichita and I got pregnant pretty quick.

01:32:19.100 - 01:32:34.280

My mother didn't give me proper instruction. My husband accused her of wanting a grandchild so bad that she didn't tell us what. Everybody didn't go to the doctor and get, you know, those things. What did Wayne do in Wichita?

01:32:34.610 - 01:32:53.040

He worked for Beach Aircraft. Can you tell me where you were and when you heard about Pearl Harbor and how did that affect you? Well, at the time I was pregnant and we were living in a basement apartment trying to save

01:32:52.940 - 01:33:15.940

money so we could get a better apartment after our daughter came. We just heard it on the radio, we listened to the radio a lot. And I remember just, it was just terrible. We just knew that everything was so awful.

01:33:16.780 - 01:33:50.280

And I told you that my brother enlisted the next day in the Air Force. Everything was just so awful from then on. Tell me how you think Pearl Harbor, World War II changed America, changed the people in America and how they felt about patriotism and honor.

01:33:50.280 - 01:34:09.300

Rose: Well, it really brought everyone together, that's for sure. Everyone was so dedicated and doing everything they could, just everyone. That's one reason that when I tell them about the girls picking up the planes and No one had flown them.

01:34:09.960 - 01:34:30.720

The engine was running for just an hour. Every one of our ferry pilots was also a test pilot because she had to check that plane over and everything before she took off. And as far as I know, I only know of two or three, Tommy and Evelyn Sharp, that there

01:34:30.720 - 01:34:41.400

was something wrong with the plane when they took off. They had to be. They were fine pilots. And all the others, they ferried thousands of planes with no problem, and those were

01:34:41.480 - 01:34:55.480

never flown before, from everything I've read. They just ran the engines for an hour. So they were all test pilots. But people in general, everyone was doing a really good job.

01:34:55.740 - 01:35:16.440

And I told you, I just read in that article, I'm going to give you that over sixty percent of the planes and tanks and everything made in the factories were done by women. They learned quickly and they were very careful and conscientious and did a good job. You know, before that they didn't know anything about riveting and doing all the stuff.

01:35:17.660 - 01:35:37.540

But they had to keep trained people to train them like they kept Wayne at beach. He was a pilot and he wanted to go, but they needed him there. And then when they were getting ready for the invasion, they just drafted everybody and he ended up in the infantry down at Camp Hood.

01:35:40.000 - 01:36:00.640

Was that before you went into WASP training? No, no, this was afterwards. In 1944, I had been home and in April of 1944, he was drafted and they drafted him right into the Army and they told him they were going to let him fly small planes for observation

01:36:00.860 - 01:36:14.720

and stuff. But they needed infantrymen for the invasion. But he did real well, thank heavens. They shipped all the people that he trained with right straight to the Battle of the Bulge,

01:36:14.780 - 01:36:25.340

which was one of the worst casualty battles. But they kept him to be one of the cadre. He was an instructor. We were so fortunate there.

01:36:27.620 - 01:36:39.500

But here is another thing. He could have been killed. And being one of the instructors, one of the fellows didn't shoot right and the belt ricocheted and went through his cheek.

01:36:40.000 - 01:36:56.660

Could have killed him, but just made a scar on his cheek. But my brother survived. He was in all the time. He was still even through fighter escort for the second atom bomb.

01:36:57.680 - 01:37:11.440

They weren't the same altitude, but they were fighting the Zeros that were down below them. I have the article all about that. He was in from the very first and stayed in the entire war.

01:37:11.500 - 01:37:26.400

He had 220 missions and all he needed was 50. When Wayne went down to Fort Hood, did you go with him? No, no. After he was going to be in the Army, I didn't stay in Wichita.

01:37:27.940 - 01:37:39.180

I was working at Boeing then. We had a lady living with us. He didn't want me to and I didn't want to be there by myself and my parents didn't. I went back to home, Coffeyville.

01:37:40.220 - 01:38:01.460

I went to work for the National Refinery as a chemist, but I only worked a few months. At that time I couldn't teach because I was married. They still hadn't changed that. But then I had serious trouble and had to have an operation.

01:38:01.600 - 01:38:17.280

I had a whole lot of adhesions. I didn't tell you another time that I wasn't supposed to live. When Carol was born I had a pelvic abscess and that was before they had antibiotics. They didn't expect me to live.

01:38:17.280 - 01:38:58.540

Eisenhouseville six weeks and almost died. What did you mean when you said that if you were married you were not able to teach? 1947, and the only jobs that women could have outside the home were ones that, I mean, you couldn't be in any kind of job that had to do with government or state or county or anything

01:38:58.700 - 01:39:22.100

like that. could be nurses, librarians, teachers, waitress, that's about all that was open unless they taught in a private school. But just like in any local government schools or city or anything, if you had an able-bodied husband it was against the law. Women were discriminated

01:39:22.200 - 01:39:41.380

against because they were married. And the Supreme Court in 1947 finally passed a law that after the war, of course during the war they just took everybody, didn't pay attention, but they had to pass a law that women could no longer be discriminated against because they had a husband, because they were married.

01:39:42.860 - 01:39:52.220

And after I was married I couldn't teach anymore. And that's why all the teachers were all maids. You never thought about that, did you? Really they were.

01:39:53.180 - 01:40:07.280

And when they were married then they couldn't teach any longer. I remember that happened to our music teacher. And she married and then she couldn't teach anymore when I was in school. But it was because of the Depression and there weren't enough jobs and there were so many

01:40:07.320 - 01:40:25.500

men out of work. But besides, they thought then that men and women were just supposed to stay home and take care of the kids and maybe do social work like mother did. Or the rich ladies partied and had tea and did whatever they wanted to and traveled.

01:40:26.460 - 01:40:57.100

But it was against the law and they did change it because they saw. They said the women in all kinds of jobs, they were real conscientious, did really good work and that's why the planes and everything were good. The people that were doing them were conscientious and everybody was trying to win the war.

01:40:58.220 - 01:41:14.260

When Wayne was discharged from the Army, then where did the two of you go? Well, he came back to Coffeyville and his parents wanted to give us the bakery and he didn't want any part of the bakery. He wanted to go back to Wichita.

01:41:15.340 - 01:41:31.120

So we moved back to Wichita. They had a rule that if you worked at any company that was still in business and you were a veteran, they were supposed to hire you for a year. And then after that you were on your own.

01:41:31.320 - 01:41:47.240

But he also signed up for—he hadn't finished college. He'd had three years of college, two years junior college and one year at Missouri University. And while he was there he paid all his expenses by playing in their best college band, you know, dance band.

01:41:47.700 - 01:42:14.240

They played for their fraternities and stuff. And for their meals they played in a restaurant just for dinner music. So he was paying his way through college before the war by playing his horn. So we went back to Wichita and we lived in government housing while he was going to college.

01:42:14.460 - 01:42:23.680

And he worked in them. He was doing engineering. And he played dances, because we didn't have enough to live on with what the government gave us, and I got pregnant.

01:42:24.920 - 01:42:41.280

And so I couldn't work. Of course, we had Carol, too. We had a little boy later, and he also worked part-time in the Research Foundation that was doing medical research at Wichita University.

01:42:42.020 - 01:43:00.140

And when he graduated, he went to work for Boeing. And while he was in college and working, you now had two children? Mm-hmm. What was your involvement with your children as far as their activities when they were

01:43:00.300 - 01:43:11.460

growing up? What did you, were you in PTA? Oh yeah. I was busy all the time at PTA and I was, kept scouts and I was a scout leader when

01:43:11.480 - 01:43:33.100

Carol was, she's older. And I was always baking and taking stuff to school and doing anything they wanted me to. And I was scout leader first, and then later they made me the neighborhood chairman and I had, for two years I had about 20 scout troops that I was in charge of.

01:43:33.940 - 01:43:48.740

And the kids always went to camp. And then when Gary came, was old enough, I was a cub scout leader, which was tougher than oh my. I had eight little boys and that was something.

01:43:49.560 - 01:44:06.580

But Wayne was really good with the kids too. He helped. Oh, if they were going to make scrapbooks and they were going to do wood burning or something he had lots of tools and he'd cut the things out and let them finish them.

01:44:08.400 - 01:44:28.960

I even had the kids, boys, baking cookies one time and that was a disaster but they thought it was great. And we went on field trips, and I always had a big station wagon to haul a bunch of kids. Did your children grow up knowing their grandparents?

01:44:29.090 - 01:44:46.120

Were they able to interact with them? Oh, their grandparents and great-grandparents for a while. Carol knew her great-grandparents. On my mother's side, we've had five generations three times, and I've had four generations

01:44:46.120 - 01:45:28.040

now I have three great-grandchildren. I have a 15 year old, four, two, and two months. Gary married a gal, she has two daughters and they have two grandchildren, but my family. All of the Fletcher side of my family lived to the nineties. My great-grandmother that was my first passenger lived to ninety-six and she was still going

01:45:28.040 - 01:45:46.880

good, but she fell out working in her garden and broke her hip. In those days, people didn't make it very long. They didn't have anything they could do, but she was just bright. They told us that my grandfather lived into the mid-90s, and we loved to visit them in

01:45:46.880 - 01:46:01.500

Caldwell. They lived right near the Chisholm Trail. They told a lot of good stories about the big trail rides of the Texas, you know, when they drive thousands of cattle up through there to go into Abilene.

01:46:02.600 - 01:46:20.820

And then she'd tell about sometimes the chasing the Indians, that they weren't bad there at Caldwell, but she said if she didn't watch and she'd put pies or cookies on the windowsill to cool, they'd come steal them. She'd chase them with the broom, get her cookies and stuff back.

01:46:22.320 - 01:46:38.100

Said sometimes she'd share them with them. Let me go back and ask you if you and your brother ever had an opportunity to fly together. Oh yes. Yeah, we flew up to Manhattan for a football game one time, and that's an interesting story.

01:46:38.880 - 01:46:51.060

Let's talk about that. Okay. And I had only flown the Lescombe once, and he had flown it a lot. Of course, he had been flying quite a bit more than I had.

01:46:52.240 - 01:47:11.820

But coming back, the weather was kind of windy and pretty stormy. And we ran out of gas, and he landed in a pasture down by Chinoot. He went into town to get some fuel. it was pretty close, left me out at the plane.

01:47:12.580 - 01:47:25.400

And when he came back, he brought me a peanut candy bar. And I was kind of hungry, so I ate it. And the weather was so bad bouncing us around, I really got sick. I started throwing up.

01:47:25.600 - 01:47:51.940

I think he planned it on purpose, because he probably thought that would make me sick. Anyway, mother and dad and all the people, because we were late. And I don't know if we radioed them or not, or if they were just waiting, I can't remember. But anyway, Wayne was out there too, and he was my boyfriend then.

01:47:53.840 - 01:48:08.560

And we landed and everybody was out there to meet us when we came in. And here I'd been so sick. And he jumped out and went over and got a packet of water in his punch and brought it to me.

01:48:08.680 - 01:48:17.480

And I was just sick. I had to clean up the plane. And all the people were laughing. That was real honory, and I accused him of doing it on purpose.

01:48:18.300 - 01:48:28.860

Were you ever, did your mom and dad ever see the two of you in uniform together? Oh yes. No, no. No.

01:48:29.320 - 01:48:37.060

No, I'm sorry. No. So all the time that you were in uniform, he was overseas? I'm mistaken about that.

01:48:38.340 - 01:48:51.900

No, and he worried about me, and I worried about him. Because he knew what you were doing? Yes, oh yes, we wrote all the time. And I graduated on the 13th.

01:48:51.900 - 01:49:13.160

Thirteenth always seemed like a number for the Tuttles. And on that day, he, I got the article, I think it was, he went over Bougainville or some island and strafed a lot of planes and set them on fire and that's when he got his silver star.

01:49:14.560 - 01:49:39.160

And his commanding officer told him not to do it, but he did it anyway, and that's what, he said that needed to be done and he sank a barge and a whole bunch of stuff it tells about it. He was in the news from Australia as one of freedom's heroes and the general gave him

01:49:39.200 - 01:49:56.640

a silver star instead of giving him the dickens. But anyway, that was the day I graduated and it was on the 13th. That was kind of interesting. No I wasn't in uniform.

01:49:56.860 - 01:50:24.740

When he came back I was, yeah, I had been out of it. When your children graduated and moved away and you and Wayne were left without children in the home, what did you do then? Did you volunteer for things?

01:50:24.920 - 01:50:46.080

Did you get a job? What did you do after the children were gone? Yeah, I wasn't teaching because I'd already had that accident when it fell right into me.

01:50:47.590 - 01:51:12.720

It wasn't too long after that that—oh, we went to Europe for one big thing. I mean I did some volunteer work, but I was just kind of taking it a little bit easy then. Well, at some point you got a boat. Tell us about some of your experiences with the boat.

01:51:18.320 - 01:51:36.380

We had a boat before they were gone because they were young and we taught them how to water ski. We had a canoe way back. We always had a canoe even when they were little with life jackets and stuff.

01:51:37.180 - 01:52:00.640

We had canoes but we weren't in deep water. Wayne and I were both really good swimmers and we didn't take any chances and we can't. But when Carol was married and they would visit, and we met them at Lake of the Ozarks when their little girl was little and went fishing.

01:52:00.800 - 01:52:18.600

We did a lot of boating and fishing. And Gary was in college and he was working too. And then he married and they had three little boys. They had one while they were in college and then they had two others.

01:52:22.620 - 01:53:00.220

Gary got a divorce when the smallest one was only about two. And we, the other, her, the other mother and father, and we were good friends and we helped take care of the kids for a while because Julie didn't want to take care of them. She said she couldn't. And Gary, when they're divorced, she came and told me that I should

01:53:00.320 - 01:53:20.280

come out and testify against her out in Denver, that she had a drinking problem and that she didn't feel like she could take care of the kids. And she felt that Gary was too much of a gentleman to tell him she'd end up with the kids. So I flew out there twice and just told him what she had told me to tell him and he got

01:53:20.360 - 01:53:40.340

the kids and she got the car and the house and we got all the bills from both lawyers. That's a strange thing. But we stayed friends with her parents and we helped with the kids and I stayed friends with her and she finally got herself straightened out.

01:53:41.560 - 01:54:01.800

But then later Gary married a really fine girl and his kids were all top honors students. And the second wife was just wonderful. She was a nurse. But eventually you and Wayne got a bigger boat, right?

01:54:01.800 - 01:54:24.060

Oh yeah, and when it was just the two of us, we bought a nicer, bigger motorboat. We first, when he first retired, he retired at fifty, so it wasn't very long after the kids were gone. But he planned it, and the reason he planned it, I'll tell you this, his mother and father

01:54:24.140 - 01:54:40.940

had the bakery and they worked pretty hard, both of them all the time, and it was good and they made good money, but Wayne didn't want any part of the bakery when they tried wanting us to take it. But they looked forward to their retirement and on their first trip, first year she was

01:54:40.980 - 01:54:58.280

really all undied. And Wayne, that was the year I started teaching school. Anyway, again, and Wayne said then, he said, "We're going to plan it so I can retire early and we're going to not put off things.

01:54:59.700 - 01:55:13.240

We're going to do all the fun we can. And on our 25th anniversary, he surprised me with a 22 day, eight country trip to Europe. I had wanted to go and been talking about it,

01:55:13.240 - 01:55:23.440

but not even thinking that was possible. He called me one day from work and said, "You go down to the travel agency, you can pick them up." And so we went on the most wonderful

01:55:24.160 - 01:55:50.200

22 day, 8 trip. We flew to England and then we went by boat to Amsterdam and then we went by bus all over Europe except for by boat down the Rhine, past all the Rhine castles. And that was just absolutely wonderful. I got to see all the main places that I wanted to see and he enjoyed them. He wasn't a big history buff as I was, but he enjoyed it.

01:55:52.120 - 01:56:05.500

And it was just wonderful. And everybody else on the thing was older and retired. And here we were pretty young, our 25th anniversary. And they'd stay in after dinner and we'd go out until about midnight every night and

01:56:05.960 - 01:56:14.360

do other things. Every big city we stayed in I made a list of the things I wanted to see besides what was on the tour. And then we just crossed them off.

01:56:14.580 - 01:56:36.040

We took cabs and underground and everything to go fast. It was just wonderful. Then we found out, people told us about Rockport, Texas, how nice it was and it wasn't as expensive as out on Mustang Island or Padre Island or Corpus.

01:56:36.940 - 01:56:55.360

It was just beautiful. So we went to Mexico and came back through there and fell in love with it. So like I said, we went there 26 winters, four months. And then Carol introduced us to the North Shore, and it's so beautiful, just wonderful,

01:56:55.480 - 01:57:06.460

Lake Superior. And we spent 24. Started out with a fold-out camper, and then we went into a cabin, and then we bought our own.

01:57:07.620 - 01:57:24.400

all down and built big, beautiful, expensive lake homes there. Let me ask you, with your boat, did you have the boat here in Minnesota? Then how did you get to Rockport, Texas? Well, we just hauled the boat behind us.

01:57:24.560 - 01:57:32.200

Oh, okay. It was just a 16-foot outboard motorboat. It wasn't a great big cabin, really. It was just perfect for fishing.

01:57:32.250 - 01:57:49.520

We had a canoe, too. put it on the top and we had a Honda trail cycle that we didn't ride out on the highway, we just rode on trails. We just had a ball and we camped a lot first down in the Ozarks and around all the lakes

01:57:49.580 - 01:58:04.020

like she was talking about down in Arkansas and Missouri. Have you ever taken your grandchildren camping? Oh yeah. They came up about every month up here and some of the Texas kids came up too.

01:58:04.880 - 01:58:24.840

And they said that was the highlight of all their life. And we had a big bonfire overnight and roasted marshmallows and wieners and everything. There were bears in the campground at night and it was exciting. And they just loved it and we went to Duluth and on the ships and did everything fun with

01:58:24.840 - 01:58:38.600

them. And then when we were down in Texas, our Texas kids came to visit us. And we took them boating and fishing. And they thought that was the best part of growing up, when they'd come be with us.

01:58:39.520 - 01:58:58.400

And we also took them out to eat practically all the time. It was much more fun and much easier. And Wayne didn't mind driving to get to a good place that was fun, up the shore, you know go different places. As those grandchildren visited you during the

01:58:58.620 - 01:59:21.940

summer did their parents also come or did they send the grandchildren? Part of the time they came but they couldn't stay all the time because they were working but the kids came on the bus part of the time and we'd meet them in Duluth or Corpus when they were before they could drive but the parents came part of the time

01:59:21.900 - 01:59:37.780

But the kids managed to get down there, all the kids. And they just had a ball and we'd get out on the little islands and go exploring and get shells and fish and had coral. We really had a super wonderful time.

01:59:38.500 - 01:59:50.660

Wonderful life. Yeah, it really was. And then when we bought the little cottage, which was a cabin, but the lady that had it had some nice additions with real modern kitchen and bathroom added and

01:59:51.360 - 02:00:03.560

fixed it all up and put nice built-ins and it faces the lake. You just could walk right down to the lake. And it's really cool. Anytime you're by Lake Superior in the summer, you're cool.

02:00:05.400 - 02:00:19.360

We stayed four months up there. We really had the best because it's too cold to be up there in the spring and the fall and it's too hot to be down in Texas in the spring and fall. It would start getting hot in April down at Corpus,

02:00:19.900 - 02:00:31.680

and it was much better in Wichita. They had a nice spring and they had a nice fall, so we were hitting the good weather all the time. And we were healthy, too.

02:00:32.640 - 02:00:52.880

We just, I had to have a mastectomy, but that didn't take very long. I came out that quickly, and he had a small heart attack. But when I was home that last 15 years I was giving talks, and I gave a few when I was

02:00:53.000 - 02:01:05.360

away, but not very many. What kind of talks? About the WASP. A few people find out about it, but I didn't do very many.

02:01:05.980 - 02:01:23.520

I really didn't want to because I was too busy with the kids. I was busy enough when I was home. As you look back over your young life, who were your role models? My heroes growing up were Lindbergh and Amelia Earhart.

02:01:24.480 - 02:01:43.000

When all the other little girls were putting scrapbooks of movie stars, I had all the pictures and I wish I had that. I don't know what happened to it, but I had a really nice scrapbook of Lindbergh and Amelia. They were my role models, and I really wanted to fly.

02:01:44.020 - 02:01:57.520

And it was just a miracle that having that. And that instructor that we had was killed. They were older then, and the Air Force didn't want them, and they flew in the Air Transport Command.

02:01:57.820 - 02:02:17.240

They were taking flying bombers down to South America and then flying them across to Africa. And then the English would pick them up in Africa and fly them back. he was killed in a plane crash in one of those trips. They were Raleigh and Art and Dick Inman.

02:02:18.060 - 02:02:26.380

And they were real famous in the middle part of the country with their air shows. And they had the small planes and they also had those big Boeing tri-motors.

02:02:27.180 - 02:02:36.800

Can you imagine getting a ride for 50 cents? But really we helped him a lot because when the people would come out and they'd see us kids going up

02:02:36.800 - 02:02:48.120

and they're just doing everything so happy. And then we'd sell the tickets. So for those three years, we were really lucky when they'd come back home.

02:02:49.090 - 02:03:20.360

As you look back over your life, you have done so many things. What is the one thing that you are most proud of? Well I think the fact that Wayne and I had such a wonderful marriage, that's the happiest thing because we really did.

02:03:21.260 - 02:03:43.060

And he had such fine training at home and I did and like my mother said, and we knew each other so well, but all our life we really didn't fight. If we had a problem, it usually concerned the kids, we just talked it out, but not in front of them.

02:03:45.000 - 02:04:13.860

And they were just small things, like whether to give her ballet lessons or something like that, you know, or because most everything, Wayne went by my judgment on the kids. where it was a matter of spending a bunch of money about something, we'd talk it over. But we really didn't, we weren't mad at each other, and we just tried to keep the other

02:04:13.920 - 02:04:32.800

one as happy as possible. I mean, anything that would make him happy, I tried to do him the same, and we were terribly in love all the way. And the kids knew we were and they never did hear us arguing or anything.

02:04:32.960 - 02:04:47.900

We had lots of fun. But when we were talking about honors, I think that being invited for the Navy is the highest honor that I'm most proud of. I just still can't believe that they invited me to speak for that.

02:04:48.980 - 02:04:55.500

And what is your-- I'm going to have to stop. Boop, boop, boop. They're such nice kids.

02:04:56.140 - 02:05:06.320

And I'm really proud of Gary and his church and doing the mission work. And that's what they want to do with their life and what they've been doing.

02:05:07.620 - 02:05:25.020

And Carol, I tell you, you cannot believe all the things she has to figure out. Because in this building with older people and ill problems, she handles them beautifully. And she's so sweet to everybody, they just love

02:05:25.060 - 02:05:56.280

her. And I'm so proud of her. And I have wonderful grandkids, and they're all doing fine. And my brother does too. And I'm going to be with all of them the 4th of September out at Big Fort Montana for his 80th birthday. And he has three sons, two sons and a daughter, but and grandkids and great-grandkids are there all nice and we get along great so

02:05:56.280 - 02:06:21.880

we're real lucky to have a wonderful family. Let me ask you this, in everybody's life there are good times and bad times and there are happy times and there are some sad times. Oh yeah. What has gotten you through the sad times? Well I still I I still think that everything that's gotten me through has been prayer.

02:06:23.640 - 02:06:39.740

I really do. I say more prayers. I say prayers I don't know how many times a day, and I don't have to be in church. When I was up in the woods or on the lake, I'd go out and sit on the rocks.

02:06:39.820 - 02:07:00.760

It was so beautiful and everything. I'd just say prayers for all the kids and everything. I didn't always make it to church, but Wayne bleed the same. I think that has been the main thing that's kept us going through tough times.

02:07:01.580 - 02:07:39.700

But, and like I say, I don't know if people I tell believe me that you can have just answer to a prayer in just a moment. Would you like to tell us something about how you feel about angels? Well, I have angels all over the house and I read about them and I take the book about

02:07:39.880 - 02:07:55.120

angels that's put out by the Guidepost. And I believe the stories that people tell. I know they're telling the truth. And I really, I hadn't told you this, but in the doctor's office one day I saw an

02:07:55.340 - 02:08:07.420

angel. My great aunt had shingles really bad when I was young, and she just cried and she hurt so badly. And there wasn't any cure for them.

02:08:08.320 - 02:08:25.020

I remembered that seemed to me like the worst thing that could happen to you. And I just dreaded the word. And after my daughter's husband died, he died of colon cancer too when he was 57. She was living with us and I could hear her.

02:08:25.140 - 02:08:43.280

She was crying every night and I was just a wreck. They say shingles are mostly brought on by nerves. I had this terrible pain in my left leg and just awful. I was getting some sores on it.

02:08:43.420 - 02:09:09.040

I didn't know what. I went to the doctor and the nurse said, "Oh, you have shingles." And I couldn't believe it. That to me was the worst thing just about that she could tell me because I remember that my great aunt suffered. And I was lying there just crying and I just scared silly. And I was just praying too, "Please don't let it be shingles."

02:09:10.780 - 02:09:34.140

And this was an absolutely white room like a doctor's office. And I was lying down and it seemed like smoke, not heavy smoke, came into the room. And there was a face and part of a body. I couldn't tell who it was, but it was in the smoke.

02:09:34.490 - 02:10:06.880

It was definite. looked like a man's face. I knew it was an angel. I immediately felt better. I quit crying and I felt better because I knew I was going to be alright. I hadn't told you that, but that happened to me. I just felt better right away. I've told that at one of the ladies

02:10:06.880 - 02:10:24.920

And it just and then it just kind of faded away and by the time the doctor came in I was able to talk sensibly and do what they said and and He got me over it Took about two weeks, but I had to take high doses of prednisone

02:10:25.060 - 02:10:42.680

Which is about the most potent that thing they could do and it got me over it But that's terrible disease and some people have it all over them for eight years sometimes But I really believed in angels. That's beautiful.

02:10:43.420 - 02:11:09.500

Let me ask you, what is your personal opinion of Jacqueline Cochran and the WASP? Well I think that we wouldn't have had the WASP if Jackie hadn't been such a fighter. I mean there's no way that anyone that I can think of could have done that. I mean, General Arnold was four, but she had to have the ideas and the stick-to-itiveness

02:11:09.660 - 02:11:25.020

to do it. I mean, so I certainly admire her for that, and also for her bravery in everything she did to do all the breaking the records. And we just—there wouldn't have been a WASP or any of this if it hadn't been for

02:11:25.120 - 02:11:47.900

her. people holler about her, but it takes someone that has a lot of guts and will stand up for what—she knew that we were in trouble, and she knew that women—she'd been flying everything, and she knew that women properly trained could do it if they were—and we

02:11:48.340 - 02:12:15.660

had the top women, chief whiz, practically all of them came from either seniors in college or graduates of college and a good reputation. And she told everybody right from the start, "We can't have one bit of scandal. We can't have anything that will ruin this program because the country is counting on

02:12:15.800 - 02:12:22.480

us." And I think everybody believed it too. I know I sure did. I wouldn't have thought of doing anything anyway.

02:12:22.520 - 02:12:34.420

I would love my husband. I wouldn't have thought of doing anything I shouldn't. But even the ones that might have wanted to, I don't think they would. And they knew they'd be kicked out immediately, but we can't have anything that would ruin

02:12:35.660 - 02:12:44.000

the whole program. So I admired her. I thought she—we wouldn't have had it if it hadn't been for her and Eleanor Roosevelt too.

02:12:44.540 - 02:13:18.040

What do you think the legacy of the WASP will be? Well, it just depends. I don't know that I don't know how many of us are out giving talks. I know they're not too many, but I wish there would be more specials. I've talked to a lot of people that saw Fly Girls and they're pretty knowledgeable and they ask good questions.

02:13:18.800 - 02:13:49.340

and if they keep putting those on channel two or women of courage or even silver wings or some of the other silver wings in Santiago blue. I'd like to see some of the older ones on it too but I thought Fly Girls was really good and there's a 747 pilot that lives in Eden Prairie that's been borrowing my books and I've been talking to and he's trying to write a

02:13:51.100 - 02:14:34.940

a movie for for tv. I mean a good movie. There was that one awful one back shortly after the war that was coming and but there there hasn't been we have a wonderful story but no one has had a really good movie. He flies 747 to Asia and he said he's working on it and Vera Williams has been working on one too for television with Halliburton, not Halliburton, Hans, that did the pictures

02:14:34.960 - 02:15:02.560

for and the one by Vera Williams, that Wasp book is really good with all the pictures, everybody loves that. And I wish she'd do a reprint because so many people like to buy it. And she has written one for TV but she so far hasn't had it accepted. But I wish they would so more people would have an idea because we're not reaching too many people.

02:15:05.600 - 02:15:30.820

Liz and I, like I said, we do as many as asked as we can, but you don't get to too many. Have had some nice articles. I have about six articles in the papers, and people see those. As you know, Wings Across America Project that you are now a part of, that is their

02:15:30.940 - 02:15:44.640

mission. What do you think of how they're trying to get that message out? Well, didn't you say that you're sending this out to schools? Isn't that what you're doing?

02:15:44.720 - 02:15:51.600

We're hoping to get it in, yes, into the educational system. A lot of schools in the educational system. It isn't there yet? Not yet.

02:15:52.500 - 02:16:03.260

It's just on the... It's on the web. It's accessible to the schools. I know several people have told me they've seen something about the WASP where they can

02:16:03.580 - 02:16:18.400

bring it up. There are about a thousand pages. But what you're doing with all these people you're interviewing is going to try to get it so it's sent out to the schools.

02:16:18.520 - 02:16:34.300

That's where it needs to be, to the schools. Because there isn't a textbook. The only ones they get are through speakers or if they have a teacher that knows a little bit and gets some books or something.

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But they don't have a World War II history book. They don't talk about it. And if it did, it probably wouldn't have anything about us in it. Someone said that one of the encyclopedias had one little paragraph about us.

02:16:51.320 - 02:17:04.520

We're just not very well known, but more people know us now. All those years in between before the 50th anniversary, practically no one ever heard of us. Well, Wings Across America is trying to change that.

02:17:04.980 - 02:17:34.920

Let me ask you, if you could say something to your grandchildren or your great-grandchildren or children that you don't even know in future generations that might encourage them or inspire them what would you like to say to them? Well when I talked to any age children like I did this last weekend there were quite a few children and almost all of

02:17:34.920 - 02:18:04.820

them I gave them a picture and signed it and I told them that anything they want to do, if they really want to do it, there's help out there for them. I said, "I know very well there's wonderful help in anything in aviation." I said, "We have the 99s, the EAA, the Confederate Air Force, and everybody that belongs to any

02:18:04.860 - 02:18:27.940

organization that has anything to do with aviation, there's help and they will teach And a lot of it is free, and they have scholarships and classes, and the Civil Air Patrol does too, and for all different ages. And I said, "Not just in that field, but in almost any field, if you really want to

02:18:28.020 - 02:18:51.660

do something badly enough, tell your teachers, and they'll ask around, and your parents, there's help for you so you can do it." I told the girls, "You can do anything a man can do unless it takes just brute strength. Any other job you can do, you can do just as well."

02:18:51.840 - 02:19:12.600

I try to tell them that. Another thing I tell them is, "We had enemies, and people have enemies in war." I said, "That doesn't mean the Germans were bad people." Their government was run by Hitler and the Nazis that were in control.

02:19:13.160 - 02:19:29.020

They were the bad people that were doing all the things. The decent, the other people, you can't be mad at those people. Like over here, we were honoring one of the Luftwaffe pilots that had shot down a bunch of American planes.

02:19:29.560 - 02:19:47.120

But as soon as the war was over, he came over here and is a fine, wonderful man. He didn't want to kill us and we didn't want to kill them, but you have to do what you're ordered to do by the government. And I said, "You can't blame the people because they're just like we are.

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They're not bad people, they just have to do what they're ordered to do in a war." I wanted them to know that it's kind of hard sometimes for them to understand that the people of the country aren't the bad ones. You have to do what you're ordered to do and also to protect yourself.

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I try to tell them things that would help them and that they can get help. I leave my card too and I tell them if there's anything I can do or to let me know. I'll try to help them if I can or if they need for me to give talks someplace. I leave cards and I get wonderful letters and I try to put them in.

02:20:46.440 - 02:20:53.720

I'm so far behind on scrapbooks and pictures. I wish you'd look. I get oodles of pictures. I don't have time.

02:20:54.340 - 02:21:15.940

I'm about five scrapbooks behind. I have so many, and I get so many copies that I send out to everybody. And everybody likes to see the pictures. Let me ask you this one last thing, Mickey, and if you choose not to answer it, it's fine.

02:21:16.740 - 02:21:38.960

But you have told us a beautiful story about your husband when he was so sick. I wonder if you would share that with children of future generations when he was at the end. You mean about the angels? Mm-hmm.

02:21:38.960 - 02:21:51.680

And he knew that he wouldn't make it. I mean, the doctors had told him. And like I said, it wasn't the cancer that killed him, it was the chemotherapy. And that was just terrible.

02:21:52.120 - 02:22:06.380

And I'll never take chemotherapy. I've heard this from other people, too. But it just absolutely burned him up inside. It was just absolutely three months of terror and horrible.

02:22:08.340 - 02:22:36.320

But anyway, yes, I would, but we had—he did improve a little bit, and we had some hope, but then he had pneumonia. When you're real ill and you get pneumonia, you don't have much chance. It was terrible.

02:22:40.540 - 02:23:01.460

But you have survived. Yes, and I came out of it. Well, physically, I was with him all the time. I stayed with him all the time until, oh, there was one week I passed out twice.

02:23:01.720 - 02:23:38.320

There's another thing. I had a bed in the room with him. I passed out when I stood up one time, I gave him something, and I knocked the bed stand over that had step-all on it. I was on the floor and I heard the crash and I wondered what happened. Then when I got I was just out momentarily. I might have gotten up too fast or something.

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And I had the stand on top of me and everything on the floor, and my neck and back hurt. And I realized the crash was me and the bed set. I didn't know what it was. And I was also nervous because he'd gotten blood poison in his arm, and a doctor was going to come and operate on him that morning.

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and Gary and Sherry were coming from Lubbock too. And they came in the room just right after that happened. And of course they didn't know how badly I was hurt. And the doctor said to take me to emergency.

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They immediately put a collar around me because I was hurt back here. And that metal heavy bed stand hit within a half inch of my spine and they said if it had been a little bit closer it would have broken my back and my neck. So that was another miracle.

02:24:39.400 - 02:24:59.280

And then the doctor told them that I should go home for a few nights and Gary stayed with And she went home with me. And then I was back all the rest of the time. But I'd been awake so long that when he died, I was asleep with my head on his shoulder.

02:25:01.980 - 02:25:22.120

Well, you have had a beautiful life. Is there anything that we have left out that you would like to talk about? me things that have happened that you would like to share that I have failed to ask you? This is your life, this is your story.

02:25:26.660 - 02:25:40.000

Another one of the worst times of my life was when my daughter's husband died. That was just terrible. He was so young and she loved him so much. And that's when I had the shingles.

02:25:41.180 - 02:26:04.140

And that was one of the worst times in my life. But we came through it and she's doing fine and she came out of it pretty well. We let her stay and live with us for about four months so she could keep her job there to make some money so she didn't have any expense until she could come back here and

02:26:04.260 - 02:26:18.100

afford to come back with her kids. they all lived here. She got a job right away, a part-time job here helping in the office because they liked her so well.

02:26:18.100 - 02:26:32.460

She was staying with my granddaughter and they liked her so well that they had her work part-time. Then when the lady that was in charge left, she became the manager. She's just been doing a terrific job.

02:26:33.740 - 02:26:56.300

She loves it and they're all crazy about her because she's so nice to everybody. How she manages, I don't know because they all have things go wrong. How many wonderful grandchildren do you have? Well, I have six of my own grandchildren.

02:26:56.740 - 02:27:12.400

She has two daughters and a son. They all live in the area. I can drive to their houses on the back roads. One in Minnetonka, one in Hopkins, and another one just the next – anyway, I can get to

02:27:12.480 - 02:27:20.100

their places and they can get here and they're just wonderful. And the oldest one has it. She'll soon be 50. My great-granddaughter.

02:27:21.780 - 02:27:40.240

And she divorced her husband after the first year and after the baby was born because he just wasn't going to be a good father and a good husband. And so she's been a single mother by herself and she's done a wonderful job. And she stayed home all the time.

02:27:40.380 - 02:28:06.540

She took this professional nanny training so that she could take care of little kids in her house so she didn't have to leave her little girl. And then when she started school, well she got a job teaching in the school as a special special ed teacher, not special ed, special, well they have Down syndrome, what do you

02:28:06.880 - 02:28:21.620

call it? And this little boy, she hauls around a little red wagon and she has a darling little girl and she's shown us pictures of him and she just loves him. And the daughter went to her first camp this year.

02:28:21.620 - 02:28:48.680

I told her I want her to go to camp and I said any camps or anything you go to I'll pay half and she liked it so well she went to Lutheran Church and they have a fine camp up the no shore and she liked it and next year she wants to be a counselor so that's great and she definitely wants to finish college. I wanted to go to college so badly I was the

02:28:48.420 - 02:29:09.400

first one on either side of our family to graduate from college. I just wanted to so much. Don't you all want a cold drink? What's your favorite word?

02:29:10.200 - 02:29:32.200

My favorite word? I think my favorite word is love. If you just have enough love, if everybody did, the world would be a better place, that's for sure. I would say that's my favorite word.

02:29:33.020 - 02:29:55.200

And I just pretty much love about everybody. I mean, I get along really well with everybody and just laugh and I don't get mad. My husband said, "Somebody'd have to kick you in the teeth to make you mad." Or if anybody insulted me, I'd just laugh.

02:29:55.740 - 02:30:07.160

You know, I wouldn't take it seriously. I've always been that way. Mickey, it has been a delight. And I thank you, and I thank you for children, for generations to come,

02:30:08.040 - 02:30:14.300

for sharing your life with us. Were you taping that? Were you? Yes, of course I was.

02:30:15.620 - 02:30:22.340

Is that okay? Well, sure. It's your favorite word. I'm hot. Let's go another room and have a cold drink.

02:30:22.340 - 02:30:28.400

I'll turn the lights off. Mickey, you are awesome. You are one awesome lady. Those are the things...

02:30:28.400 - 02:30:37.300

You know that. I hope... let me give you a hug. Oh, Mom, she's sweating. We made her sweat. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah. I want you to go see the view out my window.

02:30:37.640 - 02:30:44.040

Okay, let's turn... And let's go have a cold drink. Let's pop that one off, too. Well, this has been fantastic.

02:30:45.280 - 02:30:47.340

I guess the cold won't be...