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I'm just sitting here to kind of bring you back so we'll get kind of chronological order. What went on. If I happen to ask you a question that you don't want to answer, just ignore me and keep going.

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But just feel free to talk when you want to. And if I say, I'll just kind of guide you. Okay? But it'll be better.

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Okay, I'm going to roll. I'm rolling. Okay, I'm Deanie Parrish and we're in the home of... Ted and Millie.

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Ted and Millie. In Rio Honda, Texas. It's May 22, 2000. She was in class 43W5.

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Six. Six. Okay, Millie. Christensen.

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Just say, "I'm Millie Christensen." I'm Millie Christensen. I was born April 9, 1918 in a farmhouse out in the country in Lafayette County between Higginsville and Odessa, Missouri. I had two brothers born there, Thomas and Carl.

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I went to a one-room country schoolhouse there for three years. I was five years old when school started and they didn't have kindergarten. See, five years old from April to September, I was just barely five, started in the first grade. Otherwise, I'd had to wait until I was seven to start in.

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And then my brother started two years later and we shared the same little country desk. How many children? Twenty-seven, I think. But I think we learned more in that school than a lot of kids do now.

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Tell me, Millie, how you would separate to different grades, were in that one room? She'd just call them up one at a time and if we weren't studying something or other, we listened in. And that's how I've been told that I passed the eighth grade final spelling test when I was in the second grade. So we learned all the time.

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And Ted did the same thing in his school. How did you get to school? Mostly we walked down a country road, about three-quarters of a mile maybe. When I first started, the teacher told the folks that she would take me and she came by in her buggy,

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picked me up and took me to school, and I'd walk home. Were there other children in that first grade with you? Maybe a half dozen. Then my brother started.

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Then when I was ready for the fourth grade, we moved to Independence, Missouri, and I went to Rock Creek School in Independence. That school had grades one and two together and three and four together, two grades in one. I went there for just a while and then we moved to Odessa.

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That's the first place I was ever in school when they had one room for a class. That would be the end of my fourth grade. I started in the fifth grade in Pleasant Hill, Missouri and went there through the sophomore year. As you were moving around, was your father changing jobs?

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He was changing jobs. He carved off the farm when I was eight years old. That would be 1930. What was he farming?

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Dirt farm in Missouri and he raised chickens. Then after that he worked on poultry farms and in the hatcheries. Do you remember any teachers in those early elementary years that were a role model for you? Mrs. Clary was the one that picked me up and took me to school at first.

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I always thought she was an old woman, but I know now she wasn't. She had a daughter that was just going to college. The needle's eye is the thread that's flying. I didn't understand that word "thread" and I said, "The dessils fly."

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It wasn't until my kids were in school that I learned what the words were for that song. Are you rolling? Yes. Now you're in fifth grade and you're moving again?

00:05:03.000 - 00:05:39.000

I was in Houston Hill, Missouri. That's the longest that I ever went to one school in my life, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth grades. In the tenth grade I was on the spelling team representing the high school in the county and came in second. I was so scared to death that the next year it would be my responsibility for the honor of the school to win.

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I was relieved when we moved to Clinton. I didn't have that to do. But then the principal asked me to be on the debate team and that was even scarier. And were you?

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I didn't win one, but I got a lot of good experience. What did you enjoy studying in school? Nothing in particular. Do you remember any close friends that you had in school?

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When we moved to Tulsa in 1934, I guess it was, I made a good friend in church there who is still my friend to this day. I want you to tell me about church when you were a young child and all through high school. There was a little farm where I was born that had two acres out of it that was a little Methodist chapel and the burying ground for my dad's family. I went there.

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Then when we moved to Independence, we went maybe once to the Methodist church. And then we went to the Baptist church and the folks like that. I've been in the Baptist church ever since. I grew up in the Baptist church.

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When we moved to Pleasant Hill, that's where I was baptized on New Year's Eve. I think I was 13 years old. And I felt real bad because Dad didn't let me stay for the watch service. That was in Pleasant Hill.

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In Tulsa, I was active in the Emmanuel Baptist church there until I got married, except for being in the service. When I was maybe 19, I started teaching 15-year-olds in Sunday school. I had 15 girls. And then pretty soon I started working with the intermediate department in training union.

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And one of my jobs was to get those 200 kids to read their Bibles every day, which was interesting. Then I went in the service. Then I taught Sunday school at Sweetwater. While you were working with young people, did you go to camp with them or any of that?

00:08:07.000 - 00:08:33.000

I went to camp, yes, Falls Creek Baptist Assembly in South of Falls Valley, Oklahoma. And it was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. I was there for the ten-day thing one time, and then I went back two weekends again. And they'd have up to 10,000 people there on a Sunday in between, and it was truly wonderful.

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When you went to camp, did you go as just one of the kids, or were you a counselor? No, just one of the kids. When you were in high school, were you into sports or music or, as you say, debate? No.

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Moving around too much, I didn't get into anything like that. I was in what they called the international club. No, I didn't. I was too busy in church to need to do any of the things with the high school kids. As you were growing up, who was your role model?

00:09:09.000 - 00:09:25.000

My grandmother, I guess. Tell me about your grandmother. She moved in with us when my grandfather died, and she and I shared a bed in her room together. Most of the time until I got married, except for being in the service.

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She was my dearest friend. When you finished high school, tell me about your graduation. There were a thousand in our graduating class. Tulsa Central, it was a big school.

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It was a square block, four stories high, and the neighbor had classes in two other buildings. I went there one week late for the beginning of my sophomore, the second semester of my junior year. I was completely lost. One class had to go from the basement on one corner to the fourth floor on the other corner, and you didn't take an elevator.

00:10:17.000 - 00:10:38.000

You had to walk, but I managed. What did you study? What did you intend to do when you finished high school? What were you being prepared to do? I took a college preparatory course, which trained me for nothing but college.

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Then I took this examination and got a scholarship to Tulsa University, but my dad was losing his job and I couldn't afford to go, so I turned it back for somebody else to use. Then I went back to high school and took a postgraduate course. I took typing, shorthand, office machines, business English, public speaking, and sewing.

00:11:04.000 - 00:11:21.000

I learned to do something where I could make a living. That cost me $2 a semester. Then I got a job working my way through business college. I went to school, night school, day school.

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I even taught a little bit in the business college, but then I got a job working for the string of jewelry and luggage stores. Do you remember where you were when you heard about Pearl Harbor? No.

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Do you remember what changes there were in the workforce or in the country when that happened? When the young men started going away in the service, it made a lot of difference. Did it affect any of your brothers? Both my brothers were drafted.

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My brother next to me, Tom, went in the Army and he became a medic. He ended up in the Battle of the Bulge ahead of the lines. My younger brother went in Navy training and flight training. He and I graduated and got our wings about the same time.

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He ended up over in the Marianas. We had a lot in common. How did that affect you when you knew that other young men were going into the Army to help with the war effort? How did that affect how you felt about the war?

00:12:58.000 - 00:13:17.000

As soon as I had a chance, I got in there to do what I could. My mother and my girlfriend and I took a first aid course. The instructor told us that he was teaching first aid to the Civil Air Patrol and invited my girlfriend and me to go.

00:13:17.000 - 00:13:45.000

She did not stay in it very long, but my life had a complete turnover then. Doing things with the Civil Air Patrol, we learned to march, we got to fly. Then some of the fellows heard of a woman who, if she could get the money for a down payment on an airplane, that she would teach us to fly it.

00:13:45.000 - 00:14:05.000

It was quite inexpensive. At that time, I was making about $17 or $18 a week, so that was not much money. One Sunday night at church, a friend came up to me and said, "Mitch, you look unhappy. What is the matter?" I said, "Oh, there is just one thing keeping me from learning to fly."

00:14:05.000 - 00:14:24.000

He said, "What is that?" I said, "Fifty dollars." He said, "Come down to the office." The next day, he handed me $50 in cash, and I did not sign void or anything. I got my first 25 hours for, I think, $110.

00:14:24.000 - 00:14:52.000

What were you flying? I started out in a Taylorcraft and then a Stinson 10A Voyager. Somewhere along the line, I did my solo spins in a Piper Cub and an Aronca and whatever came along. Can you tell me about your instructor?

00:14:52.000 - 00:15:17.000

Mrs. Johnson. Everybody made fun of her, but I guess she was a very, very serious pilot. She was very serious about not letting us go up with her airplane when it was too windy. We called it the John Ufort for her, the wind scale. The day she soloed me, she said, "Now, you will learn someday.

00:15:17.000 - 00:15:39.000

You will be an instructor someday, and you will know why I am so fussy." That was the days in gas rationing. We had to carpool, so several of us would go together and we would get out to the airport. If we flew a half hour, we were doing well, two or three times a week, if that much.

00:15:39.000 - 00:16:06.000

It took forever and ever before we were ready to solo, but finally did. Were there other girls learning to fly at the same time? One. She is the one that worked at Carter Oil and finally got me a decent job. Instead of $18 a week or so, I got into a decent salary.

00:16:06.000 - 00:16:29.000

When you first started to learn to fly, did you know of any other girls who were flying? What made you think that you could do that? All I ever thought was if I can say once that I got that airplane off the ground and got it back down and walked away. I never looked beyond that until I did.

00:16:29.000 - 00:16:53.000

Then we heard about the WASPs. The requirements were so high that they needed to have been flying big airplanes and had a lot of hours and high horsepower and all that, which I could never do. Then they began to lower the requirements.

00:16:53.000 - 00:17:11.000

I guess I sent in my application and was interviewed. They gave me a physical out at Spartan School of Aeronautics. That was the first time I ever—well, that was an experience. What was that experience like?

00:17:11.000 - 00:17:28.000

I do not think I will discuss it. I want to know. Then I passed it, of course. I might have weighed 115.

00:17:28.000 - 00:17:45.000

They said, "You better gain some weight because you go down there in Texas and they will send you right back." He said, "Eat a lot of bananas." I ate too many bananas and that did not help. I got down there on that kind of food and in that kind of hours I took on the weight.

00:17:45.000 - 00:17:59.000

Let me back up just a minute and ask you how your grandmother and your mother and dad felt about your flying. They thought it was wonderful. Did your grandmother ever watch you fly? I do not remember that she did.

00:17:59.000 - 00:18:19.000

I took my parents up for their first—no, not their first ride. They were my first people to take up for a ride. Wait a minute now. Let me back up. I never had anything but a student pilot's permit until I got out of the service, so I could not take them up then.

00:18:19.000 - 00:18:33.000

After I got out, I guess I did. Daddy dragged his feet all the way around. Did your grandmother ever come out and watch you at all? Probably. I do not remember.

00:18:33.000 - 00:18:47.000

Once you had your physical, did you have to have an interview? Yes. Tell me about that. I do not remember very much about it. It was in a hotel and she asked me some questions.

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Do you remember who it was? No. How did you get from home to Avenger Field? I had to buy my own ticket on the train.

00:19:00.000 - 00:19:20.000

The church gave me a corsage to wear. My girlfriend came down with another one, so I pinned it on my mother. Another girl from Tulsa, Frances Gardley, was going at the same time. We went all over Texas, I think, before we got to Sweetwater.

00:19:20.000 - 00:19:30.000

Had you flown with her? No, I did not know her before. So your church gave you a send-off. Yes.

00:19:30.000 - 00:19:47.000

What was your first impression of Avenger Field? Well, our barracks were not completed. They did not have doors or windows. So you can imagine.

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When I got there, I thought they had furnished a little bit of stuff, a towel, a washcloth, some things. They did not, and I did not take any along. So the first few weeks, until they let us go to town and get a towel, the Texas wind dried me. We would have to shoo the guys out that were working on our barracks building until we could change clothes and whatever, you know, go on.

00:20:12.000 - 00:20:35.000

It was an experience. And then, oh, the Texas guys, at night when it would be hot, we would drag our cots out between the rows of barracks, and that was wonderful. Until someone came home one night from night flying and found a rattlesnake by their door. And after that, they would not let us stay outside anymore.

00:20:35.000 - 00:20:52.000

And I was more scared inside than I was outside. And those Texas stars are unbelievable. Tell me about the first airplane you flew at Avenger and your instructor. L.V. Rudolph.

00:20:52.000 - 00:21:11.000

We called him Rudy, not to his face. Our first instructor, he was younger than most of us, and he felt like he had to be kind of tough, but he was a good pilot. And he got all five of us girls through, and he stuck up for us. He was good.

00:21:11.000 - 00:21:23.000

Tell me about your bay mates. They changed from time to time, and I have none of them that I can get together with anymore. And it's hard to remember. Why did they change?

00:21:23.000 - 00:21:33.000

Some of them washed out. One of them took herself home. How did that make you feel when one washed out? Scared.

00:21:33.000 - 00:21:49.000

[Laughs] We would get real worried about taking tests, you know. I mean, I couldn't even imagine going home saying I'd washed out. But, you know, you didn't know whether you were going to make it or not.

00:21:49.000 - 00:22:04.000

But I did. Tell me about some of the regulations, what you were allowed to do or not to do. One of them was not to fraternize with people on the field. And I flunked that one, I guess, because I did.

00:22:04.000 - 00:22:21.000

[Laughs] Maybe you don't want to record that. The sergeant in the post office, I had a date with him one night. And when I graduated, he let me have his car to take my things into the train.

00:22:21.000 - 00:22:37.000

That's the last I ever saw him, but it was nice. When you got there, were there already trainees on the base? Yes. Class 5 was there.

00:22:37.000 - 00:22:52.000

I think 4 brought their airplanes in after we got there, flew them from Houston. And what did you start out flying? PT-19. Let me say that those girls in 5 were good to us.

00:22:52.000 - 00:23:08.000

Before that time, I guess they kind of harassed the new classes like the cadets did. And 5 decided they were going to be nice to 6th class. They showed us how to make our beds and how to do things. And they were friendly to us, and that was nice.

00:23:08.000 - 00:23:28.000

And that was the end of that on the field. I mean, after that, we were always nice to the new classes that came in. In Class 7, the class behind me, was Helen Berrick, who married Frank Pittenger, who became the first airport manager I worked for in Muskegon.

00:23:28.000 - 00:23:50.000

And she was my friend until the day that she died. So he moved from Muskegon to New York and then to Kansas City, and he built KCI in Kansas City. I visited him one time when a Constellation came in and broke apart.

00:23:50.000 - 00:24:03.000

Went out to the field to see that. Did any of your close friends wash out? Yeah, one of my best friends, she was from Hawaii. She was one of the older girls in our class.

00:24:03.000 - 00:24:23.000

She'd made an altitude record out in Honolulu. And I don't know why, she had already gotten a congratulatory telegram from her boss out in Hawaii congratulating her on graduation. They washed her out, and she never let us see her after that.

00:24:23.000 - 00:24:40.000

I never got to say goodbye to her or anything. And I was told that they washed her out on account of instrument. But instructors have told me later that they never washed anybody out for that. So I can't imagine why she--and I've never heard from her since,

00:24:40.000 - 00:24:54.000

and I would like to have. Was she in advance when she washed out or in advance? Well, it was the day practically two or three days before graduation. It was unbelievable.

00:24:54.000 - 00:25:06.000

And you just came back to the Bay and her locker was cleaned out? Yeah, she was gone. When you finished primary, were you given some time off? Yeah.

00:25:06.000 - 00:25:25.000

What did you do? A bunch of us must have gotten a car, I can't remember, and drove to Dallas, and we had a nice time that weekend in Dallas. And then between basic and advanced, we went to Brownwood, I think it was,

00:25:25.000 - 00:25:43.000

and some other things. While you were there, did you have an opportunity to visit any of the churches in Sweetwater, or did you have services at Avenger? I can't remember if they had services at Avenger,

00:25:43.000 - 00:26:03.000

but the first Sunday that I could go to church, I went into the First Baptist Church there. And this little lady came up to me and invited me out for dinner. And I went there, and her home from the rest of the time I was there was my home off base anytime I wanted to be there.

00:26:03.000 - 00:26:22.000

And it just happened that her oldest daughter was married to one of the instructors on the field, which didn't hurt things at all. We did a lot of hangar flying out at their cabin on Sweetwater Lake. Were you the only WASP that they invited?

00:26:22.000 - 00:26:40.000

No, no. I won't name them, but some of them are our officers. And between basic and advanced, they went to Brownwood? I think it was. I've forgotten.

00:26:40.000 - 00:26:52.000

Just a group of trainees? Yeah. Some rancher invited some of us to come out to his ranch and have chicken dinner. And we thought that would be great.

00:26:52.000 - 00:27:07.000

And we went out there and found out that their chicken was alive yet, and you had to kill it and dress it and cook it. And some of them did get to go horseback riding, but it wasn't really the thing. We didn't enjoy it that much. We washed the dishes first.

00:27:07.000 - 00:27:24.000

And then we went down and had a hotel room. And if it was Brownwood, and I've forgotten, one of my girlfriends from home was married to an officer down there, and they had me out to their house for dinner.

00:27:24.000 - 00:27:46.000

When I graduated, I had had a cold which affected my ears, and so I was in sick bay for a couple of days. And I lost out on some flying time, and you had to have so many hours before you graduated. And I didn't know until they called my name to line up whether I was going to graduate then

00:27:46.000 - 00:28:00.000

or have to wait, make up my time and graduate when I was seven. My parents and my girlfriend from Tulsa were down to see me graduate, and I was awful glad when they called my name. Did your grandmother come?

00:28:00.000 - 00:28:20.000

No, she wasn't able to. Tell me about the airplanes that she flew in advance training. The AT-6, 30 hours would it be, and then UC-78 the rest of the time. What was your training going toward?

00:28:20.000 - 00:28:38.000

Was it cross country? Was it acrobatic, aerobatics? No, not much acrobatics. I suppose it would be just for cross country. Tell us about instrument flying training.

00:28:38.000 - 00:28:55.000

When we started, we did our first night flying in the BTs. I've forgotten. I know the first time I did solo night flying, I thought they'd never let me come in. Land and take off and land and take off and land and take off before they finally called me in.

00:28:55.000 - 00:29:18.000

In twin engine, two of us would go up, one of them would be buddy pilots, one of them would watch the air and the other one would fly under the hood. Was there ever a time when you were in training that you were frightened? No, I've been scared other times, but not in training, I don't think.

00:29:18.000 - 00:29:33.000

The instructor would say, "If you don't do so and so, I'm going to take this stick out and hit you over the head with it." No, I wasn't really scared with that. Overall, tell me about the attitude of the instructors. They were all good, all good.

00:29:33.000 - 00:29:57.000

I saw my primary instructor in El Paso later on, and he wanted to take me up and fly with me. Then that would have been fun, but they wouldn't let me. My basic instructor eventually was sent to Love Field, and he was driving a Jeep, taking us out to the airplanes. It was about to kill us because he was so good.

00:29:57.000 - 00:30:16.000

My deputy was my 86th instructor, and I think he went on to be on the airlines. And Wanamaker, I can't remember what happened to him, but I think I've heard that he later on married a WASP. They were all good. Tell me about ground school.

00:30:16.000 - 00:30:35.000

We worked hard at ground school. What did you enjoy the most and the least? I never learned the mechanical part of it at all. It's a good thing that there were good mechanics that took care of our airplanes and stuff, because I wasn't any good at that.

00:30:35.000 - 00:31:06.000

I liked code, and I helped teach code when some of the girls needed extra help. Well, I can't think of what I want to say. Of all the things you did in training, what did you enjoy the most? Just being able to fly.

00:31:06.000 - 00:31:34.000

When we go from primary to basic, as long as they let us—there was a time, I guess, that they stopped letting us do that, but we'd go out to the field at night when the planes were all sitting there and sit in those airplanes and go through the whole procedure to make sure that we'd know when we got into it the next day what to do. Ted, bring me a Kleenex.

00:31:34.000 - 00:31:56.000

Bring me a Kleenex, would you? All the time that we were at Sweetwater in training, whenever there was a graduating class, we had to be able to march for the graduation. So we had to have what we called our general's pants, and we had those tan pants and white shirts.

00:31:56.000 - 00:32:16.000

And the general never came the whole time I was there. Well, when I graduated, we still didn't have uniforms. And so my brother graduated, got his Marine wings the same time that I did, and we went home. My mother was working at Spartan Aeronautics, and she wanted to show off her kids.

00:32:16.000 - 00:32:37.000

So I put on my Civil Air Patrol uniform and went out there. The best uniform I could have, you know, that pleased her. And then when we got to Love Field, we had to have some sort of uniform, so we wore pinks and greens. And it was a joke when we'd go in to where you had to buy these,

00:32:37.000 - 00:33:01.000

and these fellas would have to measure us to make sure that they fit us right. Then after a while, we got our blue uniforms, which were nice. When you went to Avenger, what was the biggest adjustment that you had to make? Oh, I just—everything worked out fine.

00:33:01.000 - 00:33:32.000

The fact that there were—I don't think people realize that there were two barracks with a restroom in between, two lavatories, two toilets, and one shower with two heads in it. And you'd get a dozen girls coming in from PT, and you'd have five minutes to shower and dress and get out in line. You forgot about being modest or anything.

00:33:32.000 - 00:33:49.000

And, of course, we didn't want to get demerits. I think I got—I didn't get very many. One, when I think I was in charge of—oh, something or other. Anyway, I wasn't even there.

00:33:49.000 - 00:34:02.000

Another one, we were out flying, and somebody got ready for inspection, forgot to take a soap out of a dish, and we got it—everybody got it. That was it. I flew straight and level.

00:34:02.000 - 00:34:15.000

While you were there, did any of the girls get in real trouble that you know of? No. Did you ever get homesick? No.

00:34:15.000 - 00:34:42.000

I tried between—there was another girl from Tulsa that was in my same class that I got acquainted with, and she knew one of the persons in charge at Spartan School of Aeronautics in Tulsa who would have come down and flown us back to Tulsa for a weekend, but the school wouldn't let us. Where did you eat?

00:34:42.000 - 00:35:03.000

In the mess hall. And I've never been fussy about food. The only thing I didn't like was one time they had roast buffalo and it was dry. No, the regular hours and the regular food and I began to gain weight.

00:35:03.000 - 00:35:17.000

I was junior officer of the day one time and I did not like that. Just leave me out of all that. Tell us what you did when you went to Lake Traynor. I liked that.

00:35:17.000 - 00:35:28.000

I used to schedule the girls for that. It was one of my extra duties. I liked it. I think I ended up with 200 hours in length by the time I got out.

00:35:28.000 - 00:35:44.000

Were you ever afraid of washing out? Yes. In primary, the civilian instructor took me up for my first ride, and our instructor said, "When you're recovered from a spin, make them hit the belt."

00:35:44.000 - 00:36:06.000

I made him hit the belt, and he thought I was a little too hard. He gave me an unsatisfactory ride or something or other. I went to my instructor and told him I did exactly what you told me. He stood by me and then the next time I took one, everything was all right.

00:36:06.000 - 00:36:26.000

Do you remember those Army check rides? I remember one of them or two. One of them was also a fellow from Tulsa, so I wasn't scared of him. I guess the last one I don't even remember.

00:36:26.000 - 00:36:41.000

I did it, and that's all. Did you do any cross-countries in training? Yes, basic. You worked hard to make sure that you got everything ready.

00:36:41.000 - 00:36:59.000

I remember in basic, the first time I hit it out, I knew I had the right heading, but it didn't seem right. I had to make myself trust it, and I got there. One of them, when I landed, the tail wheel went flat.

00:36:59.000 - 00:37:14.000

Somebody else had the flat home. No problems. While you were in training, were any of the girls killed? I guess so.

00:37:14.000 - 00:37:32.000

We were too busy to-- None at the training base? No, I don't think so. One of the girls in my class, in a spin--

00:37:32.000 - 00:37:50.000

I don't know, a seat belt came under her waist, but she got thrown out and parachuted down, and the wind dragged her across into a fence and stuff. So that was the end of her training. But she wasn't killed?

00:37:50.000 - 00:38:07.000

No. She was injured, but she wasn't killed. When you graduated, what was graduation like? It was hectic for me, because I didn't have all my hours in yet,

00:38:07.000 - 00:38:18.000

and I didn't know until they called me that I could graduate. Well, then I had to get the rest of my hours before I could leave the field, and I needed somebody to fly. That was twin engine.

00:38:18.000 - 00:38:36.000

I needed a buddy pilot, somebody to co-pilot. All the girls, all they wanted to do was leave, go home. Bernice Moore, who was from San Marcos up here, had her own car, and so she delayed and flew me on one cross-country trip.

00:38:36.000 - 00:38:57.000

And then one of the instructors flew me on another until I got all my time. In the meantime, did your family stay, or did they go back home? They stayed with this family that had adopted me. And then we rode the train home together.

00:38:57.000 - 00:39:15.000

When you got home, did you-- how did the people in the town, how did the people at your church, what was their reaction? Oh, I'm a hero, you know. [Laughs]

00:39:15.000 - 00:39:33.000

How long did you have them before you had to report? Ten days, maybe. I don't remember. What did you do during that time? Well, my brother and I did things together, you know, visited people.

00:39:33.000 - 00:39:48.000

Nothing special. And your brother was home from where? Oh, I forgot where he was when he got his wings. I don't remember if he was--I can't remember.

00:39:48.000 - 00:40:01.000

Well, I'm going to ask you a silly question. Which child was your parents most proud of? You don't have to answer that. You know, my mother never made any of the three of us worry, being in the service.

00:40:01.000 - 00:40:21.000

You know, how some mothers are fret, fret, fret, my poor kids, you know. If she did, she never let us know, which was good. Okay. That particular day, he was flying pilot, she was flying co-pilot, and they were both killed.

00:40:21.000 - 00:40:31.000

They crashed on takeoff. Not much about that except that I was so sorry that I didn't have a uniform. Wow. Okay, when--

00:40:31.000 - 00:40:43.000

When it's rolling bars. Yeah, when you were there, what did you do? I know it was when you went to the church and gave a little speech. I don't remember very much about it.

00:40:43.000 - 00:41:07.000

When you got your orders at Avenger, what did they say? To apply--go a certain date to Love Field. Did most of your class-- No, we had a choice of going to Wilmington or Romulus or Love Field, Dallas, or to California, Long Beach.

00:41:07.000 - 00:41:21.000

And the girls mostly, I think, chose the ones nearest to their homes. Did most of them get what they chose? I suppose. I don't know. I don't know.

00:41:21.000 - 00:41:48.000

So you went home to visit your family, and then how did you get from your home to Love Field? Trained again at my own expense. It wasn't until we got on duty there that we began to get TRs. Okay. Just talk to me about what you did when you got to Love Field, what you did, where you stayed, where you ate, what your job was.

00:41:48.000 - 00:42:16.000

Ignore me. We had one of the barracks buildings not too far from where the WASP headquarters were. And we each had our own room, and each set of two rooms had a door between. We had a cot, maybe a blanket, a box with a rod across it we could hang our clothes on, and a straight chair, I guess.

00:42:16.000 - 00:42:29.000

I can't remember. That's all that we had. Well, the girl that had the adjoining room with me was from Tulsa, and we became friends. I hadn't known her before. She had a friend in Dallas.

00:42:29.000 - 00:42:56.000

Let me say that I love Texas people. They are so good. And that lady and her husband, we had a key to their house, and we could go there and sew and do whatever we want. So we got the material, and we made – well, I had a GI make me a desk, dressing table thing, and a bench. So I had something to read my Bible on and do that sort of thing.

00:42:56.000 - 00:43:14.000

We made curtains for our mayor closet, our bedspread, and somebody bought us a chair. So we had a room, and we had an adjoining room. Whenever we were there together, she and I did things together. Went out to this home.

00:43:14.000 - 00:43:34.000

Who did you report to? I don't remember. Did you have a squadron commander, or how were you assigned? Well, the WASPs had someone who was in charge, so I don't know whether – I don't remember.

00:43:34.000 - 00:43:50.000

I stayed clear of them as much as I could. I got my orders, and I went. How were you treated by the WAFs that were there? They had one that stayed in our barracks.

00:43:50.000 - 00:44:05.000

I don't know why, but she was accused of something wrong. She was accused of something wrong, and we didn't have anything to do with it. No contact with them. When you would get orders, what would that consist of?

00:44:05.000 - 00:44:25.000

What would you have to do? Well, they checked us out in as many airplanes as they could right away. And when they'd call us, we would not know whether we were going to be gone overnight or a week or two weeks or three weeks, depending on what we were flying,

00:44:25.000 - 00:44:56.000

what the weather was, and how far we were going and all that stuff. So I flew with about 80 pounds of luggage, and I had my B-4 bag – well, first my parachute bag with the Ferline winter flying clothes in one side and my B-4 bag loaded with my camera, my alarm clock and iron and all that stuff in the other.

00:44:56.000 - 00:45:14.000

And we always had to have our briefcase and our purse. So I had about 40 pounds in each arm. And you go out, and they had these little train-like things that ran around the base, and you'd jump on that and go out to your airplane and stuff.

00:45:14.000 - 00:45:29.000

Now I'll tell you, that's a little bit scary. For me, it was carrying 80 pounds of luggage and jumping on there and not falling and getting where you were going and jumping off without sprawling. But I managed.

00:45:29.000 - 00:45:52.000

And I never stood around and waited for some fellow to carry my luggage. Who checked you out on all these airplanes? Well, they had check pilots there that were based on the field to take you up. In the PT--well, let's see, I don't know, the 13 or 19, because I ferried the 13s.

00:45:52.000 - 00:46:23.000

We went out to some small field someplace between Dallas and Fort Worth, I don't know where, and learned to make short field takeoffs. I checked out in PT-13 and the BT and the 86, eventually in UC-78 at that time. Then my first trip was with this PQ-8, never having flown a tricycle gear before.

00:46:23.000 - 00:46:39.000

And that is an experience. A little bitty airplane, but when you come in, they just said, "Go out and fly around. Get the feel of the airplane." Came in to land, and that would be at Wichita, I think it was a 6,000-foot runway.

00:46:39.000 - 00:46:53.000

And I came in to land, and the attitude is so different. Not a tail-dragger, but the other way, and this just doesn't seem right. So I gave it the gun and took off. "That's dumb." Landed again.

00:46:53.000 - 00:47:17.000

So I made two landings, that first landing. Taxied in, and we could taxi in so fast, and they'd have to call us down from taxiing too far too fast. But I got my airplane to, I forget the field, down south of Savannah. You know, I guess there's no reason for it, but it was kind of scary to be flying one of those radio-controlled target planes

00:47:17.000 - 00:47:42.000

into a base where you knew they were used for being shot at. But there were girls down there that were towing targets too. And all the whacks were good to us when we'd stay at those places where we'd— the only place that we could stay overnight would be—

00:47:42.000 - 00:48:14.000

I took those planes, one of them into Biggs, north of El Paso. But people forget that we were test pilots for the first ten hours that we flew any airplane. And I never had any trouble with any but the Culvers. Culvers, the hatch hinged on one side and came over and locked on the other side.

00:48:14.000 - 00:48:36.000

And I was flying down across Oklahoma one time and that hatch came up, flew up. Well, I don't want to jettison it. I want to get my airplane all there in one piece. And so, thank goodness there was a little airport close, field close. And so I reached up and got a hold of the hatch and pulled it down.

00:48:36.000 - 00:48:58.000

I couldn't lock it. The wind was bubbling under it too much. So I had to fly the thing, stick and throttle, stick and throttle, until I could land on that field. And I managed. Well, you can be sure that having had that happen, the hatch come open once, I was going to be very careful that it never happened again.

00:48:58.000 - 00:49:20.000

But once taken off from Tinker in Oklahoma City, on takeoff the thing flew up. And I had to fly around and come back in and land. And the rest of that trip that I delivered, they locked me in and they unlocked me out when I landed. Tell me about the procedure when you would get someplace with the airplane.

00:49:20.000 - 00:49:36.000

We'd see if there was something to be ferried. If we would go out to Long Beach, for example, see if we could get a BT back or something or other and go over to Downey and fly it back. If it was some other place, whatever transportation, whether they put us in a truck or a bus or however,

00:49:36.000 - 00:49:54.000

they'd get us to the nearest airport and we'd fly wherever we could to get back. Would you fly on commercial airplanes? Yeah. How could you get a reservation?

00:49:54.000 - 00:50:09.000

We bumped people. I've read someplace where they said we had a priority two, but I don't think that's right. I think we had a priority three. But one time they mistyped my orders and it said priority one.

00:50:09.000 - 00:50:19.000

That's the president. Guess what? I rode a train out across Texas. I got out and rode on a coupling between the coaches.

00:50:19.000 - 00:50:44.000

So that was my own experience with one priority. But it was really sad bumping people, mothers with little kids. One time a couple being transferred from Memphis back to Fort Worth begged me to take their little child and fly that child to Dallas and someone would pick it up there.

00:50:44.000 - 00:50:57.000

I didn't dare. I wouldn't dare. But I wasn't above taking care of kids when the mothers got sick or something on the airlines. When you sat out on the coupling, did you take your B-4 bag out then?

00:50:57.000 - 00:51:23.000

Oh, no. That particular flight I was sent from Dallas to Midland to pick up another one of those culvers and get it out to, I can't think where in California. They hadn't been able to find out what was the matter that was left there mechanical.

00:51:23.000 - 00:51:43.000

I took off and those airplanes only took 100 octane gas. We didn't have but an hour time to fly. So I landed from Midland to, I don't think I went into Big Springs. I think it was Pecos and then Paiute.

00:51:43.000 - 00:52:03.000

I gassed up at Paiute heading for El Paso. Sometime out there in the middle of nowhere but cactus and rattlesnakes, the engine quit. That's scary. All the time you talk about a drowning person, I'm thinking, "What can I take with me?"

00:52:03.000 - 00:52:16.000

Well, of course, I couldn't take anything. If I tried to take my purse or anything, it would just fly with the wind. But all the time I'm working on a wobble pump trying to get that. And it started.

00:52:16.000 - 00:52:36.000

I got to El Paso and on the crosswind leg, it quit again. Now the people down below heard and knew what was going on. And I flew what I call a carrier landing and did stick and came in and landed. Rolled catty-cornered across the runway, stopped, shook a while, and the blooming thing started again.

00:52:36.000 - 00:52:58.000

I was so mad at it. Well, when I went in to check in where they offered me a drink and I said, "No." I said, "The Lord got me down here safe and the last thing I want to do is drink." Well, that time I could have flown back to Love Field with Jacqueline Cochran.

00:52:58.000 - 00:53:19.000

But no, I'd had to get transportation from Fort Worth on over to Dallas. No, I'd just take the airline. So I lost out on that chance. We thought so much of Nancy Love, and I'm sorry to say that I guess I didn't have the right attitude toward Jacqueline Cochran.

00:53:19.000 - 00:53:52.000

Cut that. Don't print. Another time I was flying from Dallas to Shreveport maybe, and they put too much oil in my airplane. I always trusted the mechanics, but this particular airplane, the compass was off twenty degrees. There was too much oil, I guess, it just sprayed the windshield with oil.

00:53:52.000 - 00:54:12.000

I know I was flying at the right altitude, I know, but I flew right through the middle of a bunch of Navy planes. Landed safe, all right. That night it snowed. I don't know if it was Shreveport, I've forgotten. Here I am trying to sweep the snow off the wings of my little airplane.

00:54:12.000 - 00:54:36.000

There was a group of, I think there were B-26 pilots in there. That was the nicest crew I ever met. They just adopted me, and they swept off my wings, and they took care of me, and they took me bowling, and they did everything. I wrote to the captain for a while, and then after a while I didn't hear from him anymore.

00:54:36.000 - 00:54:53.000

I don't know if he got killed because he was flying over England. The last I heard from him was in Paris. But you met all kinds of nice people. On some of those trips when you were coming back on the train, did you meet any interesting people?

00:54:53.000 - 00:55:17.000

How did the civilians treat you? All right. One time I was flying back, and there was a woman, and I don't remember yet whether she was the mother of Danny Kaye or one of those Kayes. She was quite proud of being the mother, or mother-in-law, of telling me about that.

00:55:17.000 - 00:55:38.000

One time we'd flown some PT-13s out to a field in northern California. They sent a C-47 to bring us down to Long Beach. That was one of those times when we had 80 pounds of luggage, all that stuff. I don't know, ten of us, I guess, in the group.

00:55:38.000 - 00:56:03.000

We'd land and try to get out there and get transportation into headquarters. One jeep met us, ten of us with all our luggage. Just down the line was Frank Sinatra, and three jeeps met him. He was never my favorite.

00:56:03.000 - 00:56:23.000

Shouldn't have got me started. Did you ever have a problem with weather? Yeah, sometimes that was nice, because you got to stay for a while wherever you were. Midland was a good one, sandy, wind-blowing.

00:56:23.000 - 00:56:41.000

I've gone in there when enough crosswind. PT-13, they say that there's two kinds of PT-13 pilots. Those who have it, those are going to ground loop. Well, I'm still going to, but we'd land on a taxi strip if it was nearer into the wind.

00:56:41.000 - 00:57:06.000

Then that's when a chance you got to go into the hotel and do your laundry and do whatever. The Texas people, they were really nice to us, really nice to us. Whenever I'd be someplace on Sunday night, if I'd go to church, I did. If we didn't have skirts and we went with our pants on, slacks, they were always nice to us.

00:57:06.000 - 00:57:21.000

During the time that you were at Love Field, there came a time when you received a new uniform. Yeah, it was really nice. Were you ever able to go home and wear that uniform? Yes.

00:57:21.000 - 00:57:41.000

Tell me about that. Well, the boy next door had become a B-17 pilot, and so the folks were just— they had to have my picture taken in my uniform beside his. I don't remember too much about it.

00:57:41.000 - 00:57:50.000

Our uniforms were nice. Were you there over a Sunday? I don't remember. If you got to go to church and—

00:57:50.000 - 00:58:23.000

I don't remember. When I was in instrument training at Dallas, I didn't get along too well, for some reason, with the first instructor I had. I guess I talked to the right people, and they gave me another instructor who knew my temperament, I guess. He didn't get me all worked up or anything, and I had no trouble at all.

00:58:23.000 - 00:58:58.000

The time that I had my instrument check at Love Field, Dallas, there were two of us in a UC-78. The other fellow was a Canadian Royal Air Force pilot, and he flunked it. But I watched him sitting behind him, and he's sitting there with his feet off the rudders, flying instruments. But I can tell on myself, too.

00:58:58.000 - 00:59:31.000

You've got something in front of you, so you can't see you're flying the beam, which they don't have to do now. But I knew I was getting quite close to the cone, and I just looked sideways to see my instructor's face, and there it was. I got it made, relax. When you were at Love Field, what was your contact with, for example, Nancy Love?

00:59:31.000 - 00:59:40.000

None. None. Were you ever around her at all? No.

00:59:40.000 - 00:59:54.000

Can you tell me what influence she had over that program at Love? I think they all loved her. I think so. We were very partial to her.

00:59:54.000 - 01:00:14.000

Were you ever around Jacqueline Cochran at all? Only the one time that I didn't ride with her. I don't remember if she was at one of our graduations or not. General Yount's wife pinned my wings on me.

01:00:14.000 - 01:00:41.000

I did not try to have anything to do with her higher officers. Tell me what you feel about Nancy Love. What do you think she contributed to women flying? Well, she got the whole thing started, and then Jacqueline Cochran took over as far as I would say.

01:00:41.000 - 01:01:09.000

But her group of women were mostly wealthy, and actually it's Jacqueline Cochran that made it possible for people like me to get in there. Have you had any contact with Bernice Batten? She was one of the original WAFs and a little person. She wasn't—I don't like to say this.

01:01:09.000 - 01:01:30.000

Well, she didn't have appeal. She cracked up a fighter plane one time coming into Philadelphia or someplace, and they court-martialed her and they didn't treat her very nice. I think she was as good a pilot as any of the rest of them.

01:01:30.000 - 01:01:44.000

Was this the Army Air Force that didn't treat her right or other WAFs? No, it was the Ferry Command. I think she was a good pilot. Did they keep her in though?

01:01:44.000 - 01:02:00.000

Oh, yeah. I know you went to OCS, so tell me something about that. It was hard work. The men, what did they take, 90-day wonders?

01:02:00.000 - 01:02:19.000

Well, we were—21-day wonders, because we had to get through it in three weeks. It was hard to study, and it was hot down there in Orlando. Did you go through that? It was hot, and along about four o'clock the clouds would roll up, and then later on it would rain and then it would get cold.

01:02:19.000 - 01:02:39.000

It was nice. It was a school of applied tactics, and there were officers of all kinds, all kinds of duty that were there. So we met a lot of nice people. Do you know how you were selected to go?

01:02:39.000 - 01:02:53.000

Everybody at Dallas eventually was sent down there that I know of. There wasn't any big deal about it. When you got there, was it a mixed class? Mixed class.

01:02:53.000 - 01:03:05.000

Was it just WASP or was it—? There were men in our classes, too. One of the hardest for me was aircraft identification. Really worked on that.

01:03:05.000 - 01:03:19.000

Why do you think they sent the WASP to that school? Because they told us that we were going to get to be officers, and so we had to have that training. And then it never happened. How did you feel about that, when we didn't get to be officers?

01:03:19.000 - 01:03:39.000

Angry. It wasn't fair. They told us when we came in that they would, and we did our job. But there were, I think there were men pilots that had done other things to keep from being drafted,

01:03:39.000 - 01:04:12.000

and then when the time came that they were going to have to do duties they didn't want and they could fly, they wanted our job. How did you get from Luffield down to Orlando? I think we took a train to—partway, oh shucks, where's Antoine's restaurant? New Orleans.

01:04:12.000 - 01:04:36.000

New Orleans. And spent a night there, and it was a wonderful thing. We went across to the Navy base Algiers, and they showed us around to the place. In a B-29 there's a master gun that shoots, and they let us do that, practice it with electrical impulses or whatever.

01:04:36.000 - 01:04:52.000

They treated us nice. And then we flew to someplace in Florida, and then we went to Orlando. Where did you stay when you were in OCS? In Farracks.

01:04:52.000 - 01:05:05.000

One big room. One big room. It was right next to the lake, and you'd go down there and swim, and it was nice. Did all the girls finish that training, or was there a—?

01:05:05.000 - 01:05:17.000

I don't know. I did my class and passed it and went on to whatever I was doing. I don't know. Do you remember some of the courses that you took?

01:05:17.000 - 01:05:48.000

Yeah, we had to learn how to write the Army way, and we had— if you landed someplace where there wasn't anything, you were supposed to be able to kill a rattlesnake and eat the meat. We ate a rattlesnake and we were—what do you call it? Survival.

01:05:48.000 - 01:06:07.000

I don't know. I don't remember all the classes. I've got notebooks, yeah, but I studied hard. So when you got back to Love Field and you just resumed what you were doing, while you were at Love, did you know Florine Watson?

01:06:07.000 - 01:06:26.000

Well, yes, I knew who she was, but I didn't have anything to do— I was there when she had her accident. She landed right over our barracks and took out the wires and stuff. But then she got transferred to Long Beach and she went on to fly.

01:06:26.000 - 01:06:42.000

Good stuff. Do you know who your squadron commander or were you just directly under operations? No, we had a squadron commander, but I don't—I've forgotten. Do you remember any interesting trips that you took with other WASPs, pilot and co-pilot?

01:06:42.000 - 01:06:59.000

Yeah, one. Well, just more than one. One of them was a short trip. When I was down at San Marcos, they asked—we always had to have a co-pilot then, so Bernie Moore was another WASP.

01:06:59.000 - 01:07:25.000

We were supposed to take a bunch of weathermen to a meeting in Monroe, Louisiana, and the weather was not good. Now, I had my instrument reading in the ferry command, but it wasn't accepted in the training command. I had to pass it again there and I hadn't. And neither one of us thought that the weather was right, that we should go and take these three men with us.

01:07:25.000 - 01:07:40.000

But the men insisted. They were weathermen and it was going to be all right, and it wasn't. But they wanted to go as observers, which meant that they wanted to act as navigators. And so we trusted them for a while, which we should never have done.

01:07:40.000 - 01:08:11.000

And all of a sudden, they didn't know where they were and neither did we. And that is the only time I've ever flown when I had to go down and find a water tower. And so we got our men to Monroe, and ours were the only weathermen in the whole big area that got there. As you were doing what you were doing at Love Field, what were some of the other girls doing?

01:08:11.000 - 01:08:37.000

Were they doing the same things that you were? Only some of them were able to fly bigger, faster airplanes and do more romantic things. In short, I couldn't ever stretch over five-three and a quarter, so I could not fly first pilot in the larger twin-engine airplanes. We had some—you could maybe call them perks now, I don't know.

01:08:37.000 - 01:09:06.000

But when I was in instrument training, there was a fellow that I met in the mess hall that had been in my chemistry class in Tulsa. And he knew how to do some things that I wouldn't have known how to do. We found out that we could check out an airplane at, oh, say six o'clock out of instrument school and go within a range of, I think it was 600 miles if we had it back by eight o'clock the next morning.

01:09:06.000 - 01:09:27.000

And so we'd fly up to Tulsa and see our folks fly back. And that's how I got—we made trips in the C-47 and the BT-13 and the twin-engine plane. I don't know what all—SBD, we made one trip in an SBD. Were you ever able to fly with your brother?

01:09:27.000 - 01:09:46.000

No, no. And I only flew with Ted a couple times. He flew me home when I got out of the service. And after we were married, we went back to Muskegon and we checked out two airplanes.

01:09:46.000 - 01:10:06.000

I checked out a Taylor Craft and he had a PT-19. And we took all the family, all the family. One of the best compliments I ever had was when Ted's aunt let me take her three-year-old son up alone in that plane. And after we got through flying all the other people, then I was dying to get up in that PT-19.

01:10:06.000 - 01:10:25.000

So he took me up and I got to fly out. That's the only time I think that we've ever been at the controls together. Do you remember when you first heard that the WASP might be deactivated and what was your reaction? Oh, we could all cry.

01:10:25.000 - 01:10:37.000

I don't remember when we heard it, but it just wasn't fair, you know. And we offered to go overseas. Some of them offered to fly for nothing. I couldn't afford to do that.

01:10:37.000 - 01:10:55.000

But anything to stay in. That was cruel. And the way they treated the girls, the ones that did get killed, not do anything for them. That's not right.

01:10:55.000 - 01:11:13.000

What was your last flight like as a WASP? I think, as I remember down there at San Marcos, I had some nice trips out of San Marcos. Nice trips. Tell me about one of them.

01:11:13.000 - 01:11:33.000

I was trying to get to as many different states as I could. And there was this one flight that was supposed to go to Spokane, Washington. But the pilot that had the flight did not want a woman for a co-pilot. And he just wouldn't have it.

01:11:33.000 - 01:11:52.000

Well, it turned out the weather was bad and he didn't go anyway. But then the next time he had a trip, it was taking some navigators to Savannah. And that time he obliged by letting me go along as his co-pilot. And we had a crew chief, and his home was in Atlanta.

01:11:52.000 - 01:12:18.000

So when we left Savannah, we flew up to Atlanta so that the crew chief could see his mother and dad. And they got us rooms in a fort that's an Army place. And they got us rooms in a lodge where the generals and everybody stayed. And, well, we had a nice time in Atlanta.

01:12:18.000 - 01:12:35.000

And then we flew to New Orleans and spent a couple nights there, which was nice. There were wasps there, but I was getting ornery, I guess. I did not want to go to the hotel where they were. And the hotel that I tried to get into, they were full.

01:12:35.000 - 01:12:59.000

So a traveler's aid lady sent the three of us out to a place in the French Quarter where we got rooms. And I went through the house and down steps into the back. And there were a row of rooms like might have been slave quarters at one time. And the guys were upstairs on the second floor in a kind of a dormitory where they kept them.

01:12:59.000 - 01:13:17.000

But that was a fun trip. I think that's the time that we picked up Bernie. We'd been on a trip one time. We were supposed to take a bunch of 15 navigators to Norfolk in five airplanes.

01:13:17.000 - 01:13:31.000

And there was a captain in charge of the five. And Bernie and I are still trying to fly every hour that we can as to go along as co-pilots. And we flew to Little Rock. And they wanted to fly direct from Little Rock to Norfolk.

01:13:31.000 - 01:13:49.000

And Bernie and I had been ferrying those airplanes all by ourselves back and forth across the country. And we said, "You don't have enough gas for that." And this captain knew that he did. And we got up to 14,000 over someplace in Tennessee.

01:13:49.000 - 01:14:16.000

And we didn't have oxygen either. And trying to get to Norfolk, well, we were absolutely running out of gas. And I had landed there before, but my pilot hadn't. But one of the airplanes ran out of gas, and the navigators jumped.

01:14:16.000 - 01:14:34.000

And the pilot told Bernie to jump, and she lost her nerve and tried to go down with him. And I don't think she had her seat belt fastened. And she hit the rivets over the windshield and just scalped her. But she was so worried about the pilot cutting his finger that she got out and waited across the cornfield to get help.

01:14:34.000 - 01:14:51.000

They put her in the hospital. Well, she got to where she could come back home. And so on the trip that I was with, we picked her up, and she'd hitchhiked somehow to New Orleans. And we picked her up and took her back to San Marcos.

01:14:51.000 - 01:15:10.000

Do you know why you were switched from Love down to San Marcos? Yes. The time came when they didn't need anybody ferrying these little airplanes anymore. They didn't need as many ferry pilots anymore, at least what we were flying.

01:15:10.000 - 01:15:30.000

So they wanted to send us to fighter pilot school, pea shooter school we called it maybe. And I forgot whether that was Brownsville or where it was, and I didn't want to fly fighter planes. I liked the Twin Beats. I liked to have two throttles in front of me.

01:15:30.000 - 01:15:53.000

So they sent us to Randolph, a bunch of us. And for a week I was there, and they put us up in that – I forget hotel – nice hotel there until we had other orders and Bernie and I were sent to San Marcos. She had a car. Her dad had a grocery store in San Marcos, and we had it made.

01:15:53.000 - 01:16:24.000

But we flew every minute that we could get in the air. But when we'd go on these navigation training trips, we were in nurses' barracks. And we'd go down to the squadron, and they would tell them what to do and everything. They would go out to the line, fly four hours, come back, and go through the reverse purpose.

01:16:24.000 - 01:16:46.000

And so it might be six hours between the time that we left the restroom in nurses' quarters before we'd get back again, because we would not use the restrooms down there where all those men were. But it was great. We enjoyed it. So you were at San Marcos when you got your orders that said you were going to be disbanded?

01:16:46.000 - 01:17:15.000

Yeah, and what broke my heart was that they wouldn't even let me buy my B-4 bag. And later on, just anybody could go and buy them. They would not let us. While you were at San Marcos, or even while you were at Love Field, what was your church life like? Sometimes I'd go to chapel on the post.

01:17:15.000 - 01:17:37.000

I went into the First Baptist Church in Dallas one time because I wanted to hear. I thought that was going to be wonderful, and it didn't work out that way. The one I wanted to hear wasn't there, and it was such a big church that we might not have been there. It was very much of a disappointment.

01:17:37.000 - 01:18:04.000

When you were on the road, were you ever able to attend different churches? Oh, yeah. Wichita, Midland, other places. Were there other WASPs who had a similar desire to stay in touch with the churches? A few. So they'd go with me to the Baptist Church, and I'd go to them at the Christian Church or whatever.

01:18:04.000 - 01:18:30.000

I learned to take communion their way. Going back over that WASP experience, what was the most fun you ever had? Gee, I don't know. While you were at Love or at San Marcos, what was your social life like as far as males?

01:18:30.000 - 01:18:47.000

We had plenty of it. Tell me about some of that. These pilots that I would fly with on the missions, some of them were very nice. We'd go out together.

01:18:47.000 - 01:19:18.000

One night, Bernie and I were in the mess hall, and a couple of fellows came up and asked us for a date. One of them was Ted, and the other was a navigator instructor, and Bernie would not go out with a navigator, period. So I went out with the two of them. We went to a movie and came back to the post and saw A Song of Bernadette, and then we had other dates.

01:19:18.000 - 01:19:40.000

And who was Ted? He was just a—I just—that's not nice. He flew the missions for taking these navigators, learning how to navigate. He'd fly the airplane and take a bunch of cadets, and that's how they got their experience.

01:19:40.000 - 01:19:51.000

But I never got to fly with him on one. He was on a different flight from me. And was this while you were at San Marcos or at Love? Yeah, San Marcos.

01:19:51.000 - 01:20:18.000

And was this Love at first sight? First sight, I don't even remember him. When Bernie and I and another girl were sent down to the flight that we were going to fly out on one of these missions, it's kind of scary to walk into this big ready room with all these guys in there.

01:20:18.000 - 01:20:39.000

And we had to find the captain, and I guess Ted, from what I hear, was the one that escorted us into the captain. We looked straight—we didn't look one way or another, you know. We just went in there. So your first date with Ted was a date with two boys, right?

01:20:39.000 - 01:21:07.000

No, it was really a date with him, but the other fellow went alone. Maybe he had the car. And then when you were disbanded, what did the base do for you? Well, first of all, they told us that they'd let us have an airplane to go down to San Antonio and get our instrument rating and so forth.

01:21:07.000 - 01:21:25.000

Now at that time, all I had was a student pilot's permit. They'd let us have an airplane to fly wherever, and I wanted to go out to El Toro to see my brother, California. What else? I don't know. And then they would fly us home.

01:21:25.000 - 01:21:57.000

Well, when I heard—Captain Duncan had been the one in Wichita that sent us girls out on trips, and we all loved him. He'd been transferred to Tulsa, and one of his secretaries was leaving to get married, and he needed somebody of the worst kind. And so he really twisted my arm to come up and work for him, and he needed me a week ahead of our time to get out. And so I quit a week early and went up there, and the disappointment was that, well, Ted flew me up there,

01:21:57.000 - 01:22:17.000

and if I'd have known what was going to happen, I would have flown back with him because San Marcos had offered me a job there, and it was more money than I made at Tulsa. But I didn't know that in time, and so I stayed, and it's probably the best thing. I think that God arranges things, you know.

01:22:26.000 - 01:22:55.000

But she told me that she never drank. I never dreamed it because she was so popular, I guess. I can't imagine how she could have done the things she did, be with the people she did and all that, without drinking, and it not being an issue. So she really went up, in my opinion, when she told me that.

01:22:55.000 - 01:23:22.000

And at one of the reunions, I heard her pray, and I thought, it was a wonderful prayer. I don't think she has any children, does she? You think so? I don't know. Her mother, she said, is going on 100 years old, and I haven't heard from her in the last couple of months,

01:23:22.000 - 01:23:40.000

and I'm wondering. Okay, we've, now you've, how many, how serious were you and Ted by the time you left San Marcos? Not really. Not really?

01:23:40.000 - 01:23:48.000

No. But you were still dating him? Were you dating other people? Yeah, sure. So was he.

01:23:50.000 - 01:24:12.000

Were you able to keep any of your uniforms when you got out? Yes, yeah, we'd keep all our uniforms, but we couldn't have our B4 bag. While you were in either Love Field or San Marcos, did you know any of the girls that were killed? No.

01:24:14.000 - 01:24:26.000

Okay, when you went to Tulsa, after you were dismissed, what did you do then in Tulsa? You're not rolling that again, are you? Uh-huh. Oh, go ahead.

01:24:26.000 - 01:24:51.000

I think she's rolling. Well, our job was to, when the more wary B-24s came in and were modified, we had to get crews to take them out someplace again. And when the new A-26s came off the line, we had to have people qualified to fly them where they had to go.

01:24:51.000 - 01:25:16.000

And so we had to order the pilots, and that was my job there. But I just died when I'd hear those airplanes out there, you know, and I couldn't fly it. But we had a couple of transition pilots that knew how I felt, and they were nice fellows. So they would arrange for me to get out in one of those airplanes.

01:25:16.000 - 01:25:34.000

The other girl in the office and I, when we were through at night, we could watch, and when the guards weren't looking, you know, we could slip out and climb up into a B-24 and be there when the crews arrived, you know, and fly. And they would let me have a hold of the controls.

01:25:34.000 - 01:25:59.000

And it's wonderful to get down in one of those bomb bays and look out in front. Not bomb, you know, the front end. And one day, Major Cole was in, he was in, what would it be? Anyway, he checked the airplanes to make sure that the airplanes were all right when they came, the B-24s.

01:25:59.000 - 01:26:20.000

Now, when General Doolittle made his flight over Tokyo, Lieutenant—now my mind goes— Oh, you're right in my shot. Sorry. Cole was his co-pilot on that flight over Tokyo.

01:26:20.000 - 01:26:42.000

Well, it was now Major Cole that came in and asked my boss if he didn't have someone that could co-pilot for him in a B-24 he was checking out. And there weren't any men around, and so Captain Duncan looked at me. And I always had slacks in the office, and I got into them in a hurry and went out and co-piloted for him. And while he's out in the back of the airplane, I'm sitting up there all by myself in the cockpit.

01:26:42.000 - 01:26:59.000

Now, I'm too short to fly them, you know, but it was fun. Yeah, that was nice. And I've got the Form 1 to prove it. All right. How long did that flight last? Close to an hour.

01:26:59.000 - 01:27:24.000

Yeah. How many cushions did you have with you? In the AT-6, my parachute and three cushions so that I could reach the controls. Now, a few weeks ago out here, they were having an air show at this Texas museum.

01:27:24.000 - 01:27:53.000

And our pastor flies. He has an instrument instructor rating and all that, and he flies several times a week. So he told us as we were leaving church that he had his airplane out there that we ought to go out and look at it. Well, here I am dressed in a blue silk pantsuit, not really made for flying. But we went out and looked, and as soon as they found out that there was an AT-6 on the field and I had flown an AT-6, I had to go up for a ride.

01:27:53.000 - 01:28:16.000

Well, I'm not as tall as I was then, and I'm a lot stiffer, and I could not get my leg up over it to get down into that thing. And he didn't have a parachute, and I sunk down in the hole. You know, I couldn't see out of the airplane or anything. He said, "Do you want to fly it?" No way.

01:28:16.000 - 01:28:37.000

But it was a wonderful flight. I mean, it was fun. Until we got back down, and I had to get out. And Ted had been able to push me up into the thing, but he had gone up in a helicopter, and he wasn't there to help me get out. So I felt sorry for these poor guys helping this old woman out of that AT-6.

01:28:37.000 - 01:29:01.000

But it was fun. How long did you stay up at Tulsa? I got there on about the 10th of December, and I think somewhere around that. And on the 2nd of April, Ted phoned me from Florida with a choice.

01:29:01.000 - 01:29:19.000

He proposed to me. Over the phone? Over the phone. Three times I listened before I was sure. We had my choice. I needed to come down there immediately, because he didn't know if he was sent overseas right away or if he was sent someplace else.

01:29:19.000 - 01:29:46.000

I could either get married then, or we could just take our chances and wait until he could get a leave and come home to Tulsa for a church wedding. Or I forget what else. Well, that was on a Tuesday night, and the next Tuesday night we were married. So Ted says these – in the First Baptist Church in Sebring, Florida, they say these short engagements don't last, and that's been 55 years ago.

01:29:46.000 - 01:30:04.000

Wow. Had you met Ted's family? No. No, he'd met my family, because he stayed with us when he flew me home. That's another story. My grandmother wanted to get up and help us fix breakfast, because I wanted all the time alone I could with Ted before he left.

01:30:04.000 - 01:30:22.000

So I'm going to make coffee. That was during rationing days, and I tried to get along without much coffee in it in the percolator – not percolator. A vacuum wouldn't work, just a part of a pot. So we had light-colored coffee.

01:30:22.000 - 01:30:43.000

Afterwards, I learned neither one of us cared whether you had coffee for breakfast or not. I don't make coffee at home now unless I have to. But after we were married, our first leave, we went up to Muskegon, and that's when I met all his family and took them all flying. So then you lived in Sebring with Ted?

01:30:43.000 - 01:31:10.000

About three weeks before he was transferred to Montgomery, and we lived there for five months, maybe. What attracted you to Ted? He's listening. You know, I've had some really good-looking boyfriends and some that had money and everything else, but he was somebody I could depend on.

01:31:10.000 - 01:31:26.000

That's important. Was he a Baptist? No, but he goes to Baptist church now. The night before we got married, I guess, I explained to him that I had tithed all my life.

01:31:26.000 - 01:31:53.000

And if he didn't approve of me continuing to tithe, I wasn't sure that we should get married because I would feel like a thief if I couldn't. Poor guy, what could he say? So we have. He'll probably never let me be interviewed again.

01:31:53.000 - 01:32:25.000

Then did Ted keep flying with the Air Force? Yeah, he went on to B-29 training at Montgomery, and he was the command pilot and had his crew assigned to him ready for combat training when the war ended. We went home. Then he got back in the Reserves, and when he almost got called in the Korean War, my brother did, the Navy pilot,

01:32:25.000 - 01:32:43.000

but I think somebody made a mistake and put down that he had 600 hours instead of 1,600, and they didn't call him back. But he had been flying cargo planes, I guess, over there. But that time we had two little kids. God took care of us.

01:32:43.000 - 01:33:00.000

When was the day you gave your first child? June 19. We were married on June 46, and Dick was born in November 47. Do either of your children fly?

01:33:00.000 - 01:33:26.000

Dick got his private pilot's license and quit, and Mary Lee never did. I wanted him to get his license because he was going to be working for the state, and I thought it would be good for him to be able to fly. But he didn't want to. He didn't mind going flying with somebody else, but he just did not want to be a pilot himself, and he quit.

01:33:26.000 - 01:33:52.000

I have a nephew. My brother's son had his own flight school for a while, and we've flown with him out and out in California. As your children were growing up, did you continue to fly any? I didn't fly very much. I traded one of my uniform shirts for an hour flying time one time. Ted had the GI Bill, so he flew for a while.

01:33:52.000 - 01:34:15.000

But I have to admit I was green with jealousy because he could fly and I couldn't. Besides that, we had a family, and I thought if he was going to go on and be an instructor, he would be flying on weekends and stuff. It wasn't fair to the kids to have him go on so much. Other people do it, but I didn't think it was right.

01:34:15.000 - 01:34:33.000

For peace in the family, I guess he quit. Then, after I started working for the airport, they even mentioned I become the county pilot. I couldn't do that. If I was responsible for him maybe deciding not to fly, then it wouldn't have been fair for me to fly.

01:34:33.000 - 01:34:57.000

But when I would go with some of my bosses on trips around the state to business meetings, he'd get the airplane and make it take off some landings, and I did the flying. So I got to fly that way. And I got to meetings all over the state.

01:34:57.000 - 01:35:23.000

They even sent me to the American Association of Executive Airport Meeting in San Diego one time, which was nice. I heard from these four managers I worked for for years. Two of them are dead now, and I still hear from one of them. I didn't get an email yet.

01:35:23.000 - 01:35:49.000

I've been retired since '77, and I still get email from him, the last airport manager I worked for. Tell me about your two children. Well, Mary Lee is married. She had a son who is, what, 27 years old now?

01:35:49.000 - 01:36:18.000

And he's graduated from the University of Arizona—no, Portland. You don't hear too much from him anymore. She lives in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and she raises pups. We both like to do handwork, and she and her husband are active in their church.

01:36:18.000 - 01:36:40.000

And your son? He worked for the Conservation Department in the state of Michigan, and he got tired of giving out tickets for people shooting their own deer at the wrong time or getting too many fish or that kind of stuff.

01:36:40.000 - 01:37:00.000

Then he got transferred to another section of it. Well, anyway, he got to the point where he could retire, so he's been retired about two years. And he has a farm and has horses and a dog. He was married for five years, and that was a disaster.

01:37:00.000 - 01:37:22.000

Do your children know very much about what you have done in your life? Oh, yeah. And my daughter, she's hounded me when she heard that you'd asked me about this. How come I should contact you, and she wants this on record.

01:37:22.000 - 01:37:39.000

Tell me about some of the volunteer things that you do now or that you have done since your children were born. Well, do you know what Altruistic International is? I was an officer of that for a while.

01:37:39.000 - 01:37:52.000

They used to--you know, things you do with your kids when they're little in school. Were you active in PTA? A little bit. I was secretary of the Board of Education for eight years,

01:37:52.000 - 01:38:12.000

and for 14 years Ted was township clerk and I was his assistant. What else? I don't know. What have you done in church since your children were born? Have you continued teaching in Sunday school?

01:38:12.000 - 01:38:38.000

I taught all ages of Sunday school from six-year-olds up to the adults. And I've been church clerk, church secretary. Down here, there's nothing too much I can do, except I did talk to the young people Thursday night.

01:38:38.000 - 01:38:51.000

I wanted to tell them that they look at me and I'm an old woman, but I wanted to tell them that I was young once. I went through the same things that they're going to be going through with. I was tempted, the same as they're going to be.

01:38:51.000 - 01:39:22.000

When they're old enough, because you don't have to stay in your folks' home anymore, don't leave the church, but keep on going because that's going to help you stay straight. And then, of course, I told them some of my flying experiences. I prayed when we came down here that the Lord would lead me to something that I could do.

01:39:22.000 - 01:39:41.000

I still, for over ten years now, I've been writing articles for our newspaper back home, and they have a religious article in there in each issue. That's something. After us being moved away for three years, they still carry my articles.

01:39:41.000 - 01:39:56.000

When I wrote my book, it started out with they asked me on Sunday school to give a little talk about my favorite woman in the Bible. Well, how can you pick out one favorite? So I talked about several.

01:39:56.000 - 01:40:23.000

They asked me to talk to the Mother's Day, or they had for Mother's Day, you know, a banquet. So I talked about several, and they said, "Oh, you ought to write a book." Well, I began to put the book together, and then the editor of our newspaper, I took it to him and wondered if he wanted to serialize it in the paper, which he did.

01:40:23.000 - 01:40:35.000

He said I hadn't wanted to ever learn to use a computer. He said, "You come in here and use my computer in the newspaper office, and I'll have my people teach you how to use it." He gave me a key to the office.

01:40:35.000 - 01:40:59.000

I could come any time I wanted to and use the equipment, but that got old, and so he took me in hand and took me out to buy my old computer. He printed the first 60 copies of my book, and then I had it done. I never thought I'd do "What's the name when you hire your own book done?"

01:40:59.000 - 01:41:14.000

But I didn't have a name. I didn't have a college education. I didn't have what it took to get a publisher. So we paid for the first 500 copies of my book, and we survived.

01:41:14.000 - 01:41:36.000

I've sold some, and I enjoy giving some of them away, and they're almost all gone. I also wrote the manuscript for one that I call "Vignettes of Bible Heroes." If I wrote about the women, then I needed to write about the men too, and I've got all of that.

01:41:36.000 - 01:41:49.000

I don't have anybody to publish it for me, and I don't feel wealthy enough to hire it done myself. It's a good companion book. Then I wrote one that was called "Travel America, a Series,"

01:41:49.000 - 01:42:08.000

and our newspaper printed that whole series. And they printed them all. The name of your book? "Women of the Bible."

01:42:08.000 - 01:42:26.000

Now there's somebody else's printed one that's almost identical, so I probably should have had a different name, but that's it. And I'm constantly getting requests for them, and they think I ought to get some more published, but I don't think so.

01:42:26.000 - 01:42:49.000

I wish I knew someone that had the ability, like Ann Baylor or somebody, to take my manuscript of "Vignettes of Bible Heroes" and somehow manage to get it published, but I'm too old to do that anymore.

01:42:49.000 - 01:43:00.000

Can I ask you, how did you select this area to retire in? Well, we've traveled. I've been in all 50 states. Ted hasn't been in Alaska.

01:43:00.000 - 01:43:07.000

We've been out in the Pacific. We've traveled. We've trailered. We've had a series of trailers and then a motor home.

01:43:07.000 - 01:43:22.000

And when we first retired, we were gone-- well, first we took a trip to Hawaii for about 16 days, and then that winter we were gone five months, and we were in all the western states but Colorado.

01:43:22.000 - 01:43:46.000

And the next year, I think that's when we flew to Australia and the islands, and then we were traveling seven months, and we were in all the western states, and we followed the border from Tijuana and then the Rio Grande to the Gulf and the Gulf to Key West and up the coast and back across home.

01:43:46.000 - 01:43:56.000

It was a nice trip. But after that, my dad came to live with us, and we weren't free to do as much traveling. But then one time we had the motor home down here,

01:43:56.000 - 01:44:10.000

and we went out here to the wildlife refuge east of here. And on the way back, we were looking for a place to camp overnight, and we saw a sign pointing down to this park. And so we came down and stayed the night,

01:44:10.000 - 01:44:37.000

and Ted said later on, "If we ever go down there, I think that's where I'd like to go." So then a year or two later, we spent a winter in Mission. And while we were there, we came back and found this place. We were down by the office down there, and Ted was talking to a man,

01:44:37.000 - 01:44:50.000

and he said, "Do you know of any places for sale here?" I'm not looking for a place for sale, you know, but he started telling somebody. He said, "Well, that fellow over there, he's got one." And he called him, and he came over and opened the front door.

01:44:50.000 - 01:45:08.000

We walked in and looked around, and here's washer and dryer, dishwasher, oven, everything that you needed, the basics. And before we left, we'd paid down on it. And I guess God meant for it, too.

01:45:08.000 - 01:45:22.000

The man's name was Peterson, spelled S-E-N, like ours is Christian, sent S-E-N. And before we left the place, somebody else came in and offered him cash right then for it. He saved it for us. So here we are.

01:45:22.000 - 01:45:40.000

Maybe it's not the grandest place in the world, but I can show you a picture up there on the refrigerator of what our backyard was at home. It got to be too much to take care of. We had to have four cross from our east to Ray's west, about 500 feet.

01:45:40.000 - 01:45:54.000

I don't know. We kept it up like a park, and it was really pretty. It was too much raking and mowing and fertilizing. We had two great big fish ponds that had to be cleaned up, goldfish ponds.

01:45:54.000 - 01:46:06.000

It was too much work, and I'd rather have him around a few more years than have him kill himself trying to keep up the place. So here we are. And now we couldn't be better off than we are.

01:46:06.000 - 01:46:19.000

We are the luckiest people in the world. The neighbor across the road knows Ted doesn't feel well. He has taken over the yard. The flowers, the shrubbery, he takes care of us.

01:46:19.000 - 01:46:30.000

The neighbor over the other way comes over every Saturday and washes the car. He won't let us do a thing for him. If you take me out to dinner, I'll quit. I mean, how can you do any better?

01:46:30.000 - 01:46:49.000

The neighbor across the way keeps us in papaya, so I take him some papaya jam. [laughs] We're blessed. In looking back over your life,

01:46:49.000 - 01:47:13.000

what do you feel is the most important thing that you've ever done? Well, for anybody who's given their life to the Lord, that's the most important thing. The other thing is, in a way, I feel like I've been battling all my life. There's always a deadline to meet, like this one today.

01:47:13.000 - 01:47:33.000

There's always something. If it's not preparing income tax, getting ready, he's going to have surgery on the sixth. There's always something that I'm pushing toward, getting ready for. Trying to make things so that when our time is done here on Earth,

01:47:33.000 - 01:47:50.000

that it'll be as easy as possible for the kids. Where do you get that strength to carry on? I don't know. What do you think your legacy will be?

01:47:50.000 - 01:48:09.000

I don't know. I hope that it's pleasant. Our kids, when we sent Nick through college, paid his way. When he graduated from high school, the superintendent whom I'd helped hire,

01:48:09.000 - 01:48:22.000

read out the name of all these kids that got all kinds of scholarships. Then he said, "There are three whose parents don't qualify." We were one of the three. Why? Because we never went in debt.

01:48:22.000 - 01:48:34.000

We waited until we could afford something and bought it. We went out and bought a car and had been in debt. They'd have given him a scholarship. But because I worked and we weren't in debt, I could keep on working.

01:48:34.000 - 01:48:53.000

So I put him through--I did, we did--put him through school. But now the kids say, "You've done all these things for us. We've tried to do as much for Mary Lee as we did for Dick, putting him through school and stuff." Whenever they needed anything, they knew where they could get the help.

01:48:53.000 - 01:49:18.000

They'd say, "Do what you want to do. Don't try to save anything for us." But we have done--well, several years ago we put away $10,000 for them in their names to be used to bury us.

01:49:18.000 - 01:49:36.000

That has grown and grown, and now we've inherited some money. And so I'm letting my son play with it, our son. And if we ever need it, it's going to be there to help us. In the meantime, it's just something that we don't have to bother about anymore.

01:49:36.000 - 01:50:00.000

Monetary things are not too important, are they? I still want to keep enough in the bank to go buy a new car if I need to. Milly, what do you think the legacy of the Watts will be? Well, if it wasn't for us, these girls that are flying all kinds of airplanes now

01:50:00.000 - 01:50:26.000

probably wouldn't be able to. In a way, they owe it to us, and I think they know it, that we were the pioneers. If I could have the education and I was young again, I'd want to be way up there. I admire these women now that are in space.

01:50:26.000 - 01:50:51.000

I don't admire the women that want to be out fighting on the ground, but these women, I don't think, belong in combat. We had enough trouble flying here. The first time I landed out at Midland, they didn't even have restrooms for the girls,

01:50:51.000 - 01:51:11.000

and we'd have to go get somebody to go in and make sure that the restroom was empty, and then no one came in until we could go in and use the restroom. Well, I can't imagine being in a tank with a bunch of men. Women are different.

01:51:11.000 - 01:51:25.000

I don't think we belong there. Do you have grandchildren? One grandson, by birth and one by adoption. When your grandchildren watch this, or children in classrooms watch this,

01:51:25.000 - 01:51:50.000

twenty-five, fifty years from now, what do you want to say to them? Well, when they watch this, that we were patriotic. We were in there—that's the WASP, that is. We were in there to do our duty.

01:51:50.000 - 01:52:18.000

We had fun, yes. It was a wonderful experience, but we were there to do our patriotic duty during the war. Do you have some words of encouragement for them? I would not try to talk any woman into going into the armed services during peacetime.

01:52:18.000 - 01:52:38.000

In a war effort, that's something different. In peacetime, they don't want to just have office jobs, but that's where we belong. We're made different from men. What's your favorite word?

01:52:38.000 - 01:52:57.000

I don't know that I have one. No. Is there anything that you would like to say on this tape that I haven't asked you? Anything at all that you would want to say?

01:52:57.000 - 01:53:25.000

I just hope that those who phone with me and stuff will think well of me. That what we've done will have a good influence on the next generation. Thank you very much. This is different than I expected, I'll tell you.

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What did you expect? I don't know. You see these things where you have about a three-minute like that. Tell me everything you know in three minutes.

01:53:36.000 - 01:53:53.000

Then you forget what you want to say and your tongue gets tied. I hope it hasn't been a disappointment to you. Can I ask you what kind of influence do you think prayer has on your life? A tremendous amount.

01:53:53.000 - 01:54:18.000

You pray, but God doesn't always answer you then. You may wait for years as I've waited. My Little Testament flew with me all the time that I flew and I still have it in my purse. I felt like I was under the shadow of his wings.

01:54:18.000 - 01:54:31.000

How does it feel to be in the air all by yourself in the clouds? How does that feel? I see all the clouds. I'm not a pilot.

01:54:31.000 - 01:54:46.000

How does that feel to be here? Ted and I have some beautiful memories of flying, and Texas especially. We both do. Flying out west, someplace out there beyond Midland, someplace out there,

01:54:46.000 - 01:55:01.000

I can remember a series of thunderclouds maybe 1,500 miles away. A big cloud in space. Flying through that is just beautiful. Flying one time from Seattle down to San Francisco over the clouds,

01:55:01.000 - 01:55:21.000

it was like buttermilk clouds. Flew into Houston one time, just castles in the air, beautiful. We landed there and it was raining so hard that you couldn't see the pavement. The water would be splashing up.

01:55:21.000 - 01:55:50.000

We both still like to see the clouds. Is there anything that you would like to have done that you weren't able to do? Yeah, I wish that I had been tall enough that I could fly from space on the bigger airplanes. I had two brothers and I was a little bit of a tomboy.

01:55:50.000 - 01:56:05.000

When you went through training, did you have to chin yourself and do all kinds of things like that? Well, so I did ten chin-ups and pull-ups. I wasn't trying to show off, so I didn't do any more. I didn't try to run as fast as I could.

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Now, I wish that I had. One time when I was down at Orlando, I did 60-some-odd sit-ups at one time. It made me sick as a dog, just showing off. And then when I sent it down to this publisher, all he did was...

01:56:33.000 - 01:56:41.000

My class did that. From A-Tees to B-Tees? No, we went from P-Tees to 17. This is the P-Tee, the B-Tee.

01:56:41.000 - 01:56:54.000

And then when we were in training, it ended up... Oops. Oh, this is hard to do. If you need to use the restroom...

01:56:54.000 - 01:57:22.000

No, I'm fine. I'm just a little bit sore still. So she wrote this book, too, about the airport? Yeah.

01:57:22.000 - 01:58:03.000

Hmm. I forget how you asked it, but you asked her about the most memorable thing in her client. I think mine was, I saw a rainbow, a complete circle, and one inside of it almost... No, it was inside of it complete and almost complete around the outside.

01:58:03.000 - 01:58:21.000

Wow. Where were you? Down here in Texas. It was one cloud with a lot of rain on it and the sun shining over here, and I flew by here. How do you say married for how many years?

01:58:21.000 - 01:58:31.000

We've been married? Mm-hmm. Fifty-five. What attracted you to her?

01:58:31.000 - 01:58:44.000

She was a woman. And I am a man, huh? That wasn't the proper answer. I don't think it was the most diplomatic answer.

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Because we're not going to be here too much longer. Maren, did you take journalism in school? No. How did you learn to write?

01:58:56.000 - 01:59:05.000

I just wrote. Just came to you naturally. I'm up here. I'm bishop. I was bishop and married a parish.

01:59:05.000 - 01:59:17.000

That's pretty good, isn't it? Yeah. I think God was telling me something there. So I can't --

01:59:17.000 - 01:59:29.000

You know, one of those first documentaries -- -- International Media. Oh, really? Wow. You look a little different.

01:59:29.000 - 01:59:38.000

Some places I've flown, you know, the lines are all real. And you've been to every state. Look at the one in the middle. Wow.

01:59:38.000 - 01:59:46.000

I took my attendant. He was busy doing building or something. And he didn't go with me. And I took our daughter to Alaska. We had a wonderful trip.

01:59:46.000 - 01:59:52.000

Oh, hadn't we? Took the ship up. And then we flew -- I can get my body between --

01:59:52.000 - 02:00:02.000

We flew up to Crudoe Bay. And took a two-day bus trip down to Fairbanks. Yeah, I'm trying to get the shadow to actually cover the picture. Fairbanks.

02:00:02.000 - 02:00:18.000

And then we took the train to Denali. And we went to Denali and they gave us a name and called them and left word. And pretty soon they paid us. And their car, you know, they can only get in there except by air.

02:00:18.000 - 02:00:27.000

But otherwise, well, that's the only way they can get in there. And so everything has to be flown in. And their old car was really dilapidated. And I started to get in the back seat.

02:00:27.000 - 02:00:33.000

And they said, "Oh, no, you have to go around this way to get in." The door wouldn't work, you know. Oh, no. Took us all over.

02:00:33.000 - 02:00:44.000

And they took us to their house. It was a birthday party. Oh, how neat. Have your kids ever sat down with you, Ted, and had you tell them your story?

02:00:44.000 - 02:00:49.000

Not really. No, and I would like to. Oh, you must do that. Yeah.

02:00:49.000 - 02:00:57.000

We didn't do that for Bill. And there will come a time when it will be too late. And you really should do it. Or you won't want to.

02:00:57.000 - 02:01:10.000

And I've got to show you. Oh, okay. Go meet my kids. Our daughter wrote a book, an instruction book, for all the teachers in Eugene, Oregon,

02:01:10.000 - 02:01:28.000

how to use the Mac. And then later on she wrote another one, how to use the IBM. And then she married a man that took care of them, and they brought us this. That's just -- that's a great picture.

02:01:28.000 - 02:01:35.000

Let's try it from here. I wonder what year that was made. Do you have any idea? Yeah, 1917.

02:01:35.000 - 02:01:43.000

Wow. That's when I was born. World War I. Familiar.

02:01:43.000 - 02:01:51.000

I used to teach out in Oregon. You haven't been to Oregon? I don't think so. No.

02:01:51.000 - 02:01:57.000

Wouldn't be a bad place to visit, though. You need to do web footage. We all care. Yeah.

02:01:57.000 - 02:02:06.000

It rains a lot. It only rains every day. I'll let you know. Baby shoe.

02:02:06.000 - 02:02:14.000

Artifact. Isn't that something? I'll do you something better. I think I have that one.

02:02:14.000 - 02:02:21.000

I made us those pictures. I couldn't find that being one of these. This is the W6, W7. I think we have that one.

02:02:21.000 - 02:02:28.000

Somebody loaned us. I don't have that one. Keep it. Nope.

02:02:28.000 - 02:02:39.000

No one's there. Yeah, just tell me about how you learned to tithe. When my grandmother came to live with us, Grandpa died and Daddy couldn't stand her to live by herself,

02:02:39.000 - 02:02:51.000

so he brought her to live with us. She always wanted to earn her living, so she did the dishes and did things like that. So she had me read the Bible to her while she did the dishes.

02:02:51.000 - 02:03:07.000

And I came to the word "tithe," and what is tithe? And she explained it to me. So I had just earned, say, a dime, a penny or something or other. And I needed a penny that belonged to the Lord.

02:03:07.000 - 02:03:22.000

So Grandma got me two cold cream jars, and I put a penny in one and nine pennies in the other. And I asked the pastor for a box of envelopes, you know, and I have religiously done it ever since.

02:03:22.000 - 02:03:39.000

But I know that that first box didn't pay for what went in the envelopes. How old were you? Oh, 10 years old, maybe. I just think that's so neat.

02:03:39.000 - 02:03:47.000

That's a pretty good mission story. It's a Lottie Moon story. Yeah, for Steve. Just for Steve. That's neat.

02:03:47.000 - 02:03:54.000

Pretty hard sometimes. Sure it is. To give that. I was not so sure about it.

02:03:54.000 - 02:04:07.000

I know at the time when we were tithing, and once in a while I'd say, "How come this person can have this and we can't?" And he says, "You tithe." Well, it came to the point where they were wondering why we had what we had,

02:04:07.000 - 02:04:16.000

and they didn't. And then Millie says, "Because we tithe." Yeah. I don't know why I did say that.

02:04:16.000 - 02:04:25.000

Okay, Millie. Right here. Is he? Who's--is this?

02:04:25.000 - 02:04:35.000

Okay. He reverted back to what his parents had been. And it wasn't good. Okay, post-Wasp interviews and honors.

02:04:35.000 - 02:04:50.000

Have you ever been interviewed for other projects or documentaries or something? That's not going to work. I've been interviewed for Amazon. Not really.

02:04:50.000 - 02:04:58.000

Well, I saw a newspaper here. Well-- Let's try this. What was that?

02:04:58.000 - 02:05:05.000

The Muskegon thing. Oh, it's okay, Muskegon. Yeah. Oh, this is--yeah.

02:05:05.000 - 02:05:12.000

Man, that one looks like a hunk of-- Fooled me. Iron pyrite. Certainly fooled me.

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[Indistinct] It's Native.