00:00:00.000 - 00:00:13.000

We play a part still in the political life of the country on occasions like this. President Reagan, remember, came here in the summer last year. President Gorbachev comes today. It's becoming a sort of political centre, surrounded with a bit of the panoply,

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the pikemen and the musketeers of the Honourable Artillery Company, there forming a guard of honour as the Prime Minister comes up. And it was this city of London that created the first links. back in 1555 when the Muscovy Company was founded to trade with Russia and to buy furs and make

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arrangements for importing various goods to Britain. So they've got long-standing links with what is now the Soviet Union. The Prime Minister comes into the print room. This was the old print room which is next to the old library. They now have very modern print rooms and libraries and she is introduced to some of the city dignitaries down this side. There are a lot

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of other distinguished guests we may be seeing later on. Well, so that all happened about 10 minutes ago. Now we're waiting for Mikhail Gorbachev and Raisa, his wife, to arrive here.

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And while we do, I have with me Mr. Garazimov, who you may have seen and are bound to have seen many times on television. Mr. Gennady Garazimov, who's the Foreign Ministry spokesman,

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the senior one for the Soviet Union. Mr. Garazimov, this visit so far, from your point of view, What is its purpose? It's the continuation of a Soviet-British political dialogue.

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It's the purpose worth pursuing. And as a result of this visit, we see this dialogue on another level. Maybe qualitatively another level. But is it really seriously politically relevant to the Soviet Union, what's happening here?

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Because isn't it actually George Bush whose ear you've got to get, if there's to be any further progress on some of these important issues of disarmament and the rest. If we wish, we can criticize George Bush in any other place, including Moscow, because Secretary of State Mr. Baker comes to Moscow early May.

00:02:02.640 - 00:02:18.640

So this is not the place. We do want to establish political dialogue with Britain, because Britain is important, its role in European and world affairs is extremely important. So we respect Britain, we want to have dialogue with Britain.

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You seem to be suggesting yesterday that Washington might be trying to put a spoke in the wheels of this visit, to some way suggest that perhaps it wasn't such a good thing that Britain and Moscow got on quite as well as the Prime Minister and Mr Gorbachev. Well, this was about these bombers to Libya deal. It was reported in the American press, I guess a month ago or something like that,

00:02:43.640 - 00:02:56.140

and now they played it up to hit the headlines, maybe also because of the visit to Washington, D.C. by Israel's Prime Minister, Mr. Shamir. How do you think one should judge it, though?

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I mean, people listening today, for instance, to what the President's going to say here and how Mrs. Thatcher replies, should they be looking for anything specific,

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any real advance in agreements on any of the issues that separate Britain and the Soviet Union, or should they be looking for some more generalities about the way people would like things to go forward?

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Generalities are also important because there are two ways of looking at things in an international scene. One way is in confrontational way. It's the old way. And the other way is new way, new political thinking,

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when we emphasize the priority of global and humanistic values. That's the message. And are there going to be what I call water bombs thrown into the speech to surprise everybody, like he did at the United Nations at the end of last year?

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Are there going to be surprises? Well, we don't have an unlimited supply of these water bombs. There will be some specific. Well, now, with Mr. Garazimov is Alex Pravda of the Institute of International Affairs.

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As a sort of, I don't know whether you call him an independent watcher, certainly you're not part of the Soviet foreign ministry, taking a sort of outsider's view, What do you read into what's going on here and what we're going to see in a moment here in Guildhall?

00:04:10.880 - 00:04:30.760

Well, basically this visit is taking advantage of the fact that British-Soviet relations have improved markedly over the past four years thickening the dialogue Establishing well-known positions. I think there's a an agreement to disagree on fundamentals like nuclear deterrence On the other hand the fact that the disagreements can take place and yet the dialogue can go on as a sign of major improvements

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Today's speech I don't expect will give us anything remarkably shatteringly new that it will be an opportunity to talk about the Soviet vision of our common European house, the whole notion of Europe being one, unity, and also perhaps mentioning, as it's London, and London has an Atlantic dimension,

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the role that the United States is seen to play from the Soviet point of view in this European house. Are you slightly surprised that I called it the gush that's accompanied this? I mean, it is extraordinary how the reporting of this event so far has dwelt on quite normal human things, like Mr. Gorbachev going to Western Strabo and being moved by it as one would expect.

00:05:07.720 - 00:05:21.720

Do you think there's a danger of people getting an overblown view of the closeness of the relationship simply because these two leaders get on well together? I think there's usual media hype about any visit of this kind. On the other hand, I think it's a healthy corrective to the old attitude

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that anything that the Soviet Union was doing was full of hostility and so on, and there's enough emphasis on the differences. Well, thank you very much indeed, and thank you, Mr. Grasemoff. stay with us after the speech and we'll talk to you about Buzinich.

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Because the Soviet president is just on his way here, you can just see the lights flashing. In Queen Street he comes, led by a police escort, and I don't believe that is Gorbachev because it's the wrong kind of car. He doesn't travel in a Rolls Royce, not yet, anyhow, he still travels in a Zil, imported

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from Moscow, especially for this. So that's another distinguished visitor coming here. Now here on the other hand is what looks far more promising. There's that line, yes indeed, the line of cars with the Soviet flag and the British

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flag bringing Mr. Gorbachev and Raisa to this entrance to Guildhall. [MUSIC PLAYING] Now, the ceremonial here will be kept to a minimum this morning. It's really a matter of coming in.

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And Raisa there, who's been all around London over the last few days, the Lord Mayor, Greets Mr Gorbachev and the Lady Marys. Interpreters on each side.

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And Raisa, who cuts a great dash in the West, but isn't actually quite as popular in the Soviet Union, where wives of leaders are normally kept rather in the background. And there's some resentment of her style, though it's been tremendously successful in the West, and particularly in the United States.

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The Russians are very excited by the reception that she's had. They know how important it is, particularly in American politics, to make a personal impact. So we don't see much except the back of Mr Gorbachev's head there and the mace preceding him, and the marshal in the cocaded hat, Colonel John Howard at the front, as this little procession

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goes into Guildhall and turns right into the corridor and makes its way to the print room. And here inside, again, Colonel John Howard. And then on the left, carrying the sword, Colonel John Ansell. On the right, Colonel David Tucker with the mace.

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And the Lord Mayor and Mr Gorbachev. Raisa behind. And bringing up the back of the parade, the tall figure of the man called the Remembrance, Adrian Barnes, in the little grey wig.

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And so he will go, as the Prime Minister did, to be presented to some of the leading figures from the city here. [CHATTER] The city has played host to other important Russians

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that Mr. Gorbachev no doubt knows about. There was a big dinner here, for instance, in 1814 for Alexander I and the King of Prussia celebrating the defeat of Napoleon

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on the retreat from Moscow. And on that occasion, the guild hall welcomed Alexander I. They put scarlet cloth all over these walls.

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They put out their best gold plate. It was a terrific reception after the dashing attacks that the Russians had made on Napoleon as he retreated in that winter of 1812 from Moscow, losing 170,000 French troops as he went. And as I was saying earlier, this link between the city and Moscow is a very old one,

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goes back to the middle of the 16th century. So he meets the Remembrance Heir and the Chief Commoner, Peter Revel Smith. These figures who manage the hugely wealthy investments of the city in property and land. And then the crowd at the bottom of your screen waiting.

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a number of distinguished guests, mainly politicians, some academics, some people from the think tanks. Many of them who've been on this circuit over the last two days were perhaps at dinner at No. 10 last night,

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when Mrs. Thatcher talked about the quiet revolution that Gorbachev was achieving in the Soviet Union. And just a few of them are presented. And after that, these distinguished guests will leave

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We will even go into the main hall at Guildhall, and the President will sign the Distinguished Visitors' Book. The Archbishop of Canterbury, Mr Runcie, who was in Moscow himself for the celebration of the anniversary of the Russian Church,

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and met Mr Gorbachev then, the Prime Minister, and Denis Thatcher on the right of the picture there. And the Marshal in the meantime, arranging for the Distinguished Guests, who are not in the procession that goes in with Mr. Gorbachev, are asked to leave the print room and make their way to their seats.

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And this is the third visit of Mikhail Gorbachev to Britain. One of them was a very brief one. When he became head of state, he went to Bryce Norton on his way to see Ronald Reagan in the United States. and an earlier visit which was rather longer, just before he became head of state under

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President Chernenko, which was the occasion when the Prime Minister talked about Mr Gorbachev being a man that she could deal with. And this visit was the one that was put off owing to the earthquake in Armenia in December when he was going to pay a longer visit to Britain.

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and he's made this the first of his visits since he became in this year, which he's going to go as well to Germany and to France, perhaps in no way as politically significant as this visit, but this is repaying his obligation, if you like, to the British government

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and particularly to Mrs Thatcher, who so early spotted him and boosted his reputation in the West by continually, despite the fact that she was the Iron Lady, saying that he was a man who should be listened to,

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who was brave and courageous, and no doubt we shall hear her say some of that today. On the left, the state trumpeters, the Blues and Royals, in their gold coats and black caps, waiting to play a fanfare.

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In the centre, the podium at which Mikhail Gorbachev will speak. Some of the city's best gold plate, which was no doubt there at that dinner in 1814, The parade on the panelling behind.

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And on the floor a number of distinguished guests. The city of men you can recognise by their blue robes. And the others are the politicians and the professors and various other people. Among them here today Professor Isaiah Berlin, for instance.

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One of the leading experts on Marx, a very distinguished Russian-born, always lived his life in this country. John Biffin is there. Dennis Healey is there.

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Peter Hall from the theatre. Bruce Kent from CND. It's quite a cross-section of people who've been invited for this occasion. It's different from speaking as Dennis Healey, talking to Paddy Ashton, the leader of the

00:13:19.300 - 00:13:31.580

SLD, and someone in a Russian hat. Now, there they are, facing us. And, um... It's a... It's quite a clever device, this Guildhall.

00:13:31.580 - 00:13:47.080

It's obviously catching on, at least with this government. Instead of taking a controversial leader to the House of Commons and the House of Lords, where people tend to feel it's a political event and they may have to demonstrate their approval or disapproval, by bringing them here, to neutral ground in the City of London.

00:13:47.580 - 00:14:08.180

Both President Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev can come and speak to an audience that doesn't feel it's under any political obligation to make any reaction at all. And now the platform party. There's the Trade Secretary, Mr Kamenchev, Lord Young, our Trade Secretary, Mr Yakovlev,

00:14:08.180 - 00:14:26.500

the Secretary of the General Committee in charge of propaganda, Christopher Dugganhart the right hand side there, you can just see William Waldegrave standing on the left, who in playing a prominent part in Middle Eastern affairs, laughing there with a mop of black hair.

00:14:26.500 - 00:14:49.740

There's Lord Young, having a little gap from his troubles over Harrods. And Mr Gorbachev sits and signs this distinguished visitor's book, last signed by Her Majesty the Queen of the prominent signers on the 800th anniversary of the mayoralty. And Raisa moves in to sign it.

00:14:49.740 - 00:15:10.540

And this was the book that was signed by President Reagan in June last year. Raisa very dashingly dressed in a dress that rather matches for colour at any rate what the Princess of Wales was wearing in Dartmouth yesterday. Brilliant scarlet and black.

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and She said yesterday at st. Paul's that she very much admired princess Diana and her style and She's suitably matching it today while they stand there waiting now for this speech We expect a speech from Mikhail Gorbachev of 40 minutes perhaps

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It's a major Event for him. It's the first big speech. He's made since his United Nations speech in December last year and as we were talking

00:15:40.420 - 00:16:07.060

to Mr. Gerasimov of the foreign ministry, the Russian and Soviet foreign ministry a moment ago. It's likely to have some surprises in it, though the speech hasn't been released in advance, in time for it to be translated, so we'll have to listen to the Russian translator and make note of whatever special points it contains. Now the remembrance are coming, just to check.

00:16:07.860 - 00:16:28.980

pikemen and musketeers on each side there that they're ready for the small procession to come onto the platform or the hustings as it's appropriately called in Guildhall because it's where the arguments used to go on about the government of the city. A few photographs taken

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Sheriffs, ladies and gentlemen, when the Lord Mayor and the General Secretary enter the room, kindly rise in your places, assuming your seats only after the playing of the Soviet National Anthem.

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And when asked to sit in the same place, the Lord Mayor and the General Secretary rise to close the altar, and would you please rise in your seats. Thank you.

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And now, please be seated, ladies and gentlemen. So they've been... ...briefed on how to react, and now everybody's in their place, except for this last procession...

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...which will come into a fanfare of trumpets. Your Grace, your excellences, my Lords, Aldermen, Sheriffs, ladies and gentlemen, the Right Honourable, the Lord Mayor,

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the General Secretary, the Prime Minister, and the other principal guests. [ Background Sounds ] [MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING] ♪♪ [ Background noise ] >> So they find their places, Mr. and Mrs. Gorbachev

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and then the Prime Minister and Mrs. Thatcher next to the Archbishop of Canterbury and the two foreign ministers, and now the national anthems. [ORGAN MUSIC PLAYING]

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♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ [MUSIC PLAYING]

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[Music] ♪♪ ♪♪ (dramatic orchestral music)

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(dramatic orchestral music) [THEME MUSIC] [ Music ] the Soviet national anthem which was adopted in 1943 when the international, the revolutionary

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song was dropped in favour of that national anthem. And now the Lord Mayor will welcome the General Secretary here. He'll be first of all introduced by the Toastmaster, Bernard Sullivan. Your Excellency, Prime Minister, Your Grace, Your Excellencies, my Lords, Aldermen, Sheriffs,

00:21:17.620 - 00:21:57.620

Ladies and gentlemen, praise silence for the Right Honourable the Lord Mayor. Mr General Secretary, Prime Minister, Your Grace, Your Excellencies, my Lords, Brother Aldermen, Sheriffs, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of the Corporation and Citizens of London

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and the Royal Institute of International Affairs, it gives me great pleasure to welcome you, Your Excellency, together with your wife to our ancient yet modern city of London at a time when we are celebrating the 800th anniversary of the appointment of our first mayor.

00:22:29.440 - 00:22:53.640

In our historic Guildhall, this cradle of freedom and democracy which served as a as a model for the mother of parliaments. Brave men and worthy patriots, dear to God and famous to all ages, have spoken.

00:22:53.640 - 00:23:22.640

While great events of history have many times illuminated the ancient walls, walls that have been worn by time and blackened by enemy action during a conflict in which our two nations stood side by side to stem the tide of aggression.

00:23:22.640 - 00:23:58.220

Once again, we are standing side by side, this time in an attempt to channel the tide of events towards a reduction of tension and establishment of peaceful and mutually beneficial cooperation between states with different social systems in all areas of human, intellectual and physical endeavour.

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The initiatives of yourself and our own Prime Minister have in that respect, Your Excellency, captured the hearts and hopes of all free-thinking and peace-loving people of the world, a world which

00:24:21.180 - 00:24:44.220

your courageous and intrepid pioneering cosmonauts have helped to twin with the infinity of space. It is through such space that Your Excellency's words and image will now travel to every part of our globe

00:24:44.220 - 00:25:06.780

where people await with keen anticipation all that you have to say as a world leader. [Applause] And so Sir Christopher Collard welcomes Lord Mayor, as Lord Mayor welcomes Mr Gorbachev.

00:25:06.780 - 00:25:26.780

And the General Secretary will speak and everybody will have a chance in the hall here to listen to a simultaneous translation, the Prime Minister and everybody else. So if you wonder how they're making head or tail of what Mr Gorbachev says, that's how. and we will broadcast a simultaneous translation ourselves as well, as Mr Gorbachev speaks.

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(applause) (speaking in Russian) (as interpreted in English) My Lord Mayor, ladies and gentlemen, I know that it is a great honoring deed in Great Britain

00:26:12.280 - 00:26:34.880

for a foreign official to speak from the rostrum of London's Guildhall. I appreciate the responsibility that I am assuming in addressing the entire British people. So speaking from this historic place with age-old traditions,

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I wish in the first instance to extend greetings to the people of Britain and on behalf of my own people, to express respect for the nation that has given the world great authors, scientists, artists, historians, and philosophers, without whom European culture would be inconceivable indeed. the nation of famous seafarers, inventors, workers and engineers,

00:27:08.880 - 00:27:36.440

without whom modern civilization would also be inconceivable. The nation whose political experience has enriched the history of the world. Speaking from this rostrum, I note with satisfaction with satisfaction that some important positive changes are

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taking place in relations between our two countries. These relations are gaining interest and confidence, and it seems to me that their prospects are quite good indeed. Ladies and gentlemen, this very building,

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which is reminiscent of so many events, evokes the thoughts of history. The 20th century is drawing to a close. It has been rich in tumultuous events

00:28:09.160 - 00:28:23.800

and has truly marked a turning point in the history of the entire mankind. It must be a rare person, indeed, who is not wondering today about where do we go from here,

00:28:23.800 - 00:28:45.480

what lies beyond that watershed. In recent years, the awareness of the crucial nature of our time has become universal. It is associated with hope, but is also tinged with alarm. The world community stands currently at the crossroads of two policies,

00:28:45.480 - 00:29:01.220

one of them, generally speaking, is a policy of force. It is rooted in the past. The other policy is only now being shaped. It is sustained by the rapid process of the crystallization

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of the world's integrity and interdependence. The priority of universal human interests and values is its imperative. Quite recently, Soviet people have seen its highest expression

00:29:19.360 - 00:29:34.580

in the solidarity that was shown by the entire world in response to the earthquake in Armenia. We sincerely thank the government and people of Great Britain, all its citizens who took our

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misfortune close to their hearts, expressed sympathy, and gave us support. The present generation of political leaders are shouldering the burden of crucial choices,

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the burden of making momentous decisions. And none of them has the moral right to shirk that responsibility. We in the Soviet Union began by looking at ourselves.

00:30:02.220 - 00:30:23.020

Four years ago, in April 1985, we made a choice, asking ourselves some very hard questions. and we tried to answer them honestly and straightforwardly. We set out to reappraise our own experience,

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our own history, and the world around us, as well as our own position in it. We firmly embarked on the road of doing away with ossified dogmas and stale patterns

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of thinking and stereotypes. This has produced perestroika and the new thinking, as well as the domestic and foreign policies based on them. Happening in a country like the Soviet Union,

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this has evoked extraordinary interest everywhere and has had an impact on the international atmosphere as a whole and the realities of the political situation in the world.

00:31:05.460 - 00:31:17.700

Our perestroika is the subject of hundreds of books, thousands of articles, official reports, and academic studies of debates at seminars and conferences, and of radio and television broadcasts.

00:31:17.700 - 00:31:31.560

Today, the interest in our Perestroika is not diminishing. And as I understand, you hope to hear from me what the situation is right now. How will Perestroika develop further,

00:31:31.560 - 00:31:50.240

and what are its chances of success? So, our perestroika is in earnest and for a long time to come. There is no turning back for anyone now. Our people have firmly linked their destinies with perestroika.

00:31:50.240 - 00:32:11.640

The election of People's Deputies of the USSR, which was held in a democratic atmosphere, unprecedented in our entire history, has demonstrated that Soviet people are not going to turn off the path they chose four years ago. The battle of feelings and views, the upsurge of interest

00:32:11.640 - 00:32:31.120

in public and government affairs, the desire to make the most of glassness and to protect it, the variety of conflicting views and proposals, and the concern that world should not again be at variance with deeds, all this reflects both the fundamental

00:32:31.120 - 00:32:48.320

gains of our perestroika and the massive support that it enjoys. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union received in the election powerful support from the people. We launched our perestroika with our eyes open.

00:32:48.320 - 00:33:05.680

We foresaw the complexity and the special nature of the process, realizing that it would really shake up thoroughly our entire society. we were not wrong about what counts most. It is also true, however, that the magnitude

00:33:05.680 - 00:33:21.880

of many domestic problems, political, economic, social, and moral, was not evident at once, but revealed itself as the process moved on. This calls for fresh approaches and solutions.

00:33:21.880 - 00:33:38.600

It calls for more intensive intellectual and practical work. As for difficulties, and they do exist, We accept them as a natural expression of contradictions which are inherent in a transition period.

00:33:38.600 - 00:33:50.680

None of these difficulties indicate that the concept itself of perestroika is wrong. They only accentuate the watershed character of the period we are going through,

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when the old ways are still alive and cannot be done away with overnight, while new approaches are as yet unable to pick up full speed. In this situation, the problems and difficulties

00:34:04.200 - 00:34:16.600

are really unavoidable, for it involves far-reaching changes in everything-- in the way of life and in the attitude toward work and civic duty.

00:34:16.600 - 00:34:30.240

We have chosen definitively and irrevocably the route leading to new forms of life-- democratization of our society in all spheres. We are convinced that it will create and is already creating

00:34:30.240 - 00:34:45.940

conditions for full self-expression of the individual and freedom of thought, and that it alone will make it possible to develop the values which are inherent in socialism, such as social protection, justice and humanism,

00:34:45.940 - 00:34:58.840

in production and human relations. In so doing, we set our sights to the highest standards of glasnost and keeping people informed, both those that are accepted internationally

00:34:58.840 - 00:35:10.320

and those that stem from our own ideals and cultural and historical traditions. We are convinced that only through democratization is it possible to build a well-functioning,

00:35:10.320 - 00:35:31.880

healthy, and dynamic economy. Radical economic reform, which blends together planned regulation in the market will help us devise a new economic mechanism, harmonize the numerous forms of socialist ownership and economic activities, and give ample scope

00:35:31.880 - 00:35:53.160

to producers' initiative and enterprise. We have formulated a new agrarian policy, seeking to tear down the administrative command system in agriculture. forms of leasing help to restore the status of farmer-peasants, his right to be in control

00:35:53.160 - 00:36:16.320

of land, machinery, and the product of his work. The decisions made are of fundamental importance not only for our agriculture, but also for the social and economic development of our country as a whole, and even for the very concept of our society's development.

00:36:16.320 - 00:36:36.320

Despite the exceptional changes that our society has undergone in the last four years, despite the obvious fact that we are already living in a different intellectual and political climate, moving as we are at a different historical pace, we still believe that this is only the beginning of the road for us.

00:36:36.320 - 00:36:58.960

For perestroika takes time, patience, perseverance and constant creative effort. We are aware that tests and trials are still ahead of us. We are faced with problems resulting from a lack of political culture and the imperfection of mechanisms that safeguard democracy and protect it against destructive, anti-social

00:36:58.960 - 00:37:15.260

actions. And weakness is impermissible here, also because it can slow down the process of democratization itself. We have a great deal to do in the sphere of inter-ethnic relations, and we shall do that

00:37:15.260 - 00:37:37.960

while adjusting our Federation to the processes that are currently underway in Soviet society. Our fundamental principle of a strong center and strong republics reflects the will of all Soviet peoples. Reforming our political system is a powerful tool indeed for tackling all these problems

00:37:37.960 - 00:37:52.860

and implementing all our initiatives. So we are building an open, democratic and free society, which has learned the lessons of its past. A society based on law and responsibility.

00:37:52.860 - 00:38:06.760

A society that keeps its citizens well-informed, that rests on its citizens' initiative and enterprise, on Soviet socialist patriotism and dedication to human socialism, aimed at elevating the human being.

00:38:06.760 - 00:38:21.360

Ladies and gentlemen, perestroika in the Soviet Union is a far-reaching and fundamental process that responds, above all, to the needs of our country's internal evolution.

00:38:21.360 - 00:38:37.100

However, it also mirrors changes typical of modern world in general. Self-isolation is alien to the very nature, to the very nature of perestroika.

00:38:37.100 - 00:38:49.000

At the same time, we note with satisfaction that it is making a positive impact on the international scene. The democratization of Soviet society

00:38:49.000 - 00:38:57.980

is proceeding together with the process of setting democratic standards of openness in international affairs. The policy of building a state based

00:38:57.980 - 00:39:09.000

on the rule of law in our country coincides with a trend toward enhancing the role of law in relations between states. Our economic reform presupposes the Soviet Union's

00:39:09.000 - 00:39:24.240

closer integration into the world economy and may be conducive to building a truly global market and a new world economic order. In recent years, we have seen the emergence

00:39:24.240 - 00:39:39.160

of real opportunities to close the last page of post-war history and enter into a new period of peace. Reliance on force is a dangerous approach, one which leads to an impasse.

00:39:39.160 - 00:39:50.440

The realities of today have laid bare the failure of the philosophy of confrontation. The decades of the Cold War have cost us too dearly, both to East and to West.

00:39:50.440 - 00:40:05.800

Continuation of all-out confrontation may spell a catastrophe for all. Such is the objective logical world politics at its current stage. Our new political thinking is precisely governed by its laws.

00:40:05.800 - 00:40:29.540

Its fundamentals and practical conclusions in summarized form were outlined at the United Nations General Assembly in New York. Let me now just recall that it sets forth the fundamental long-term course of Soviet foreign policy and a blueprint for specific measures for the transition to a period of peace.

00:40:29.540 - 00:40:49.180

We invite everyone to dialogue and interaction for the sake of survival and progress. One can read in the newspapers every day about the various dangerous and pressing problems that are facing mankind. I would only point out one simple fact which sometimes eludes us,

00:40:49.180 - 00:41:09.940

namely that all of them are interrelated. It is impossible to cut this knot with a single stroke, but it can be unraveled, but we cannot put off this common task any longer. We shall not be able to ensure genuine and substantial disarmament unless we make concurrent

00:41:09.940 - 00:41:31.220

radical changes in the political climate on this planet. We shall not be able to save the environment unless we embark on a path of disarmament and release resources to solve environmental problems. We shall not be able to make the situation throughout the world healthier unless we change

00:41:31.220 - 00:41:52.180

the nature of North-South relations. We shall not be able to eliminate famine in the world, combat drugs, AIDS, and terrorism, or put an end to gross violations of the rights of individuals and entire nations until we recognize that all that is our common concern, until we rise above the narrow, egoistical

00:41:52.180 - 00:42:14.600

understanding of our interests and draw up guidelines for international interaction in keeping with today's needs. The experience of recent years makes it possible for us to speak about peaceful order based on the principles of freedom of choice and balance of interests in the context of reducing

00:42:14.600 - 00:42:41.660

weapons of arsenals of weapons and lowering the level of military confrontation. We will continue to prove this with practical deeds. As I have already had a chance to say, during 1989-1990, our armed forces are to be reduced by 500,000 men, which is 12 percent of their total strength.

00:42:41.660 - 00:43:03.400

The military budget will be cut by over 14 percent, and the production of weapons by nearly 20 percent. We have already started to implement this program. I take advantage of this opportunity to inform you that we have recently decided to cease,

00:43:03.400 - 00:43:22.360

as of this year, the production of enriched weapon-grade uranium. In addition to the industrial reactor for the production of weapon-grade plutonium, which was shut down in 1987. We are planning to shut down two other such reactors this

00:43:22.360 - 00:43:37.760

and next year without commissioning new units to replace them. This is yet another major step toward the complete cessation of production of fissionable materials for use in weapons.

00:43:37.760 - 00:43:49.140

The elimination of chemical weapons is a most important problem in efforts to demilitarize international politics. We appreciate Great Britain's position,

00:43:49.140 - 00:44:00.080

which has eliminated its chemical weapons unilaterally and was the first to raise this issue at an international conference. Our bilateral cooperation has been quite good in this respect.

00:44:00.080 - 00:44:10.660

Soviet experts have visited the British Research Center in Port Down, while British experts have visited our center. We have completed the construction of a facility

00:44:10.660 - 00:44:23.440

for the destruction of chemical weapons, and we intend to invite soon your representatives to visit it. The Soviet Union will be vigorously working for an early conclusion of a global international convention on the

00:44:23.440 - 00:44:39.040

complete prohibition and elimination of chemical weapons. We have adopted several important decisions for the conversion of our military industries. A considerable number of defense factories and design bureaus,

00:44:39.040 - 00:44:52.680

as well as their related research potential, are becoming involved in manufacturing consumer goods, machinery, equipment, and other facilities and products for agriculture and for the light and food industries.

00:44:52.680 - 00:45:09.700

A substantial number of military transport aircraft are to be used for carrying civilian cargos. The Soviet Union has taken several major steps toward transparency of its military activities.

00:45:10.400 - 00:45:26.040

We have already stated that we are going soon to make public our defense budget data. This will be done by the new Supreme Soviet of the USSR. The difficulty here lies in the fact that the non-convertibility

00:45:26.040 - 00:45:37.460

of the rule will hamper an objective comparison of our military expenditures with those of the West. So we are looking for the most appropriate way of presenting our data.

00:45:37.460 - 00:45:51.140

As for the numerical strength of our armed forces, I can even now say the following. As of January the 1st this year, they numbered 4,258,000 men,

00:45:51.140 - 00:46:10.200

including 1,596,600 in the ground forces and 437,300 in the Navy, while missile forces, air defense troops, The Air Force and Combat Support and Logistics Forces

00:46:10.200 - 00:46:26.840

account for the rest of that figure. After the unilateral reduction of our armed forces, their total strength by the end of 1990 will be approximately 3,760,000.

00:46:26.840 - 00:46:41.660

By way of comparison, the total strength of the United States Armed Forces, including the National Guard and, in our country, similar components are integrated in the armed forces exceeds 3 million men.

00:46:41.660 - 00:46:56.340

It should be noted that the strength of the U.S. Navy is more than double that of the Soviet Union. We have released data on the military potentials of the Warsaw Treaty Organization and NATO in Europe.

00:46:56.340 - 00:47:11.700

They show approximate parity. The comparison between the armed forces of the Warsaw Treaty Organization and NATO as a whole, including strategic nuclear forces, provides the following figures for the Warsaw Treaty Organization.

00:47:11.700 - 00:47:34.060

5.3 million men, 10,500 aircraft, 4,200 combat helicopters, 80,000 tanks, 160 large surface ships. NATO is superior to the Warsaw Treaty Organization in all those components with the exception of tanks.

00:47:34.060 - 00:47:57.460

In short, any fears or misgivings about the Soviet military threat are groundless. Negotiations and a search for compromise between major countries involved in the protracted arms race would clear the way to a reduced level of military confrontation, fewer weapons, a less onerous burden of military expenditures.

00:47:57.460 - 00:48:11.400

In this regard, the Vienna document and the start of the talks on reductions in the armed forces and armaments in Europe and on confidence-building measures constitute an event truly without precedent

00:48:11.400 - 00:48:21.520

in this nuclear age. The Soviet Union is prepared and willing to take very far-reaching steps toward a demilitarization of Europe and in the overall European process.

00:48:21.520 - 00:48:36.940

We are prepared to engage in a most constructive dialogue and cooperation with Great Britain concerning all matters relative to the concluding document of the Vienna meeting. It is well known that we are opposed to unjustified linkages

00:48:36.940 - 00:48:49.280

in disarmament matters. We do not make agreements on one issue contingent on a solution to another. But this is rather a problem of how best to arrange

00:48:49.280 - 00:49:01.620

the negotiating process. Objectively speaking, in our century, everything is linked. And of course, there should be no doubt that if, for instance, NATO goes ahead with its program of modernizing tactical nuclear

00:49:01.620 - 00:49:14.280

weapons, this is bound to affect the Vienna talks, confidence-building measures, and the situation in Europe at large. This is bound also to devalue much of what has been achieved

00:49:14.280 - 00:49:28.900

under the INF Treaty. In this context, it is appropriate for me to recall once again that Britain contributed to creating conditions for making that treaty possible.

00:49:28.900 - 00:49:57.820

We strongly oppose any plans for the modernization of nuclear weapons. We ourselves are not modernizing, nor do we intend to modernize them unless we are forced to. I believe that common sense will certainly prevail.

00:49:57.820 - 00:50:25.380

We are convinced that the time has come to start negotiations on reducing Soviet and U.S. naval forces and those of the Warsaw Treaty and the North Atlantic Alliances. The question of 50% reductions in Soviet and U.S. strategic offensive arms continues to be on top of the agenda of our relations with the United States.

00:50:25.380 - 00:50:44.700

We are ready to resume negotiations at any time. As to the doctrine of nuclear deterrence, I believe that it is high time that instead Instead of speaking of how to deter others with nuclear weapons, we spoke of how to deter, to keep in check, nuclear weapons themselves.

00:50:44.700 - 00:51:01.220

It means putting an end to the accumulation and upgrading of those weapons, gradually but steadily destroying their stockpiles and ultimately their complete elimination and prohibition of their production. We do believe that it is really possible to build a safe and nuclear-free world.

00:51:01.220 - 00:51:15.540

Unquestionably, the road leading to such a world lies not only through greater openness and reliable verification. It also requires building confidence, which depends on many aspects of today's international affairs.

00:51:15.540 - 00:51:34.380

Soviet-British relations have a substantial contribution to make to these efforts. They possess an extraordinary political and historical potential, supplemented by a factor which is becoming increasingly important at present. For both our countries are permanent members

00:51:34.380 - 00:51:45.880

of the United Nations Security Council. If constructively pulled together, our efforts do not merely add up together, but multiply as an international factor.

00:51:45.880 - 00:52:05.020

Conferences on humanitarian questions and human rights could produce a major breakthrough towards new frontiers in the European process. In a few weeks' time, the London Information Forum will launch the first in this series,

00:52:05.020 - 00:52:26.020

and the 1991 Moscow Conference will conclude it. We see some areas of agreement in Soviet and British approaches towards the settlement of regional conflicts. Here, too, some experience has already been gained. And what counts most is that the leaders of our two countries are prepared

00:52:26.020 - 00:52:37.760

and willing to explore and propose in a common, businesslike atmosphere and manner their own ideas and good offices to the parties concerned. We are in favor of making use of Soviet-British dialogue

00:52:37.760 - 00:52:48.800

to internationalize the economic problems of today's world. A conclave of several personalities, even very influential ones, will certainly not suffice for that. All have the right to be involved in matters

00:52:48.800 - 00:53:00.280

which concern each and every one. It is only through common efforts on the basis of equality that it would be possible to avoid disastrous upheavals in the world economy.

00:53:00.280 - 00:53:14.460

And such upheavals may occur if we continue putting off our search for radical and just solutions and if we rely on stopgap measures. As regards environmental issues, the Soviet Union

00:53:14.460 - 00:53:27.880

will faithfully abide by the existing agreements and cooperate in international programs, and will soon accede to those to which it is not yet party. I believe that in this area, too,

00:53:27.880 - 00:53:39.920

many opportunities exist for enriching Soviet-British relations. In closing, I should say that good changes are taking place in our relations.

00:53:39.920 - 00:53:50.320

Both our governments have put in quite a lot of effort to make this happen. We duly appreciate also the consistent efforts that are being made by the Prime Minister of Great Britain,

00:53:50.320 - 00:54:00.040

Mrs. Margaret Thatcher. Of course, not everything is very simple in politics. Substantial differences and disagreements still exist. Problems could also arise in implementing

00:54:00.040 - 00:54:12.600

what was agreed upon yesterday in Downing Street. But it is my impression that we have set the right guidelines. Horizons of trust have been expanded. We have seen even more clearly now

00:54:12.600 - 00:54:25.820

that we are able to act in the spirit of mutual understanding and in a productive manner in upholding our own national interests within the framework of the universal values of modern civilization.

00:54:25.820 - 00:54:37.500

And the fact that we are different is an incentive, indeed, for exchanges, cooperation, and dialogue between our two countries and peoples. So it is with these feelings that we are going back

00:54:37.500 - 00:54:49.760

to Moscow, full of impressions of your capital and of the people whom we have had a chance to meet and see during this brief time here. - Volunteers, including Bob Hoskins,

00:54:49.760 - 00:55:01.480

who took much needed supplies to some 200,000 refugees forced to live in the forbidding Sahara Desert. Now on BBC One, in a change to the published edition, Joan Bakewell visits Berlin for the last

00:55:01.480 - 00:55:19.400

in the series of Heart of the Matter. (dramatic music) (music) (choir singing)

00:55:19.400 - 00:56:01.520

[music] What is happening in the GDR since October, it's really a revolution. It's a revolution. It's not only a changing of opinions or a changing of government or a changing of party.

00:56:01.520 - 00:56:21.520

No, it's a revolution. Now everybody is really free and relaxed and jolly and has trust in the future of the country and of course of the future of his own and his family's life. Just two weeks ago you could be shot for trying to cross this wall,

00:56:21.520 - 00:56:37.040

yet events are moving so fast that in one weekend alone some half million Germans crossed from east to west. And there's talk, in theory at least, of German reunification. This vast groundswell of popular feeling began in the churches of East Germany.

00:56:37.040 - 00:56:46.700

It was from the churches that the differing voices of dissent first made themselves heard. So what lies at the heart of the matter is what will be the new role for the church

00:56:46.700 - 00:56:58.200

now that those dissenting voices have come out into the open and joined the mainstream of political life. And how will the churches persuade East Germans to stay and make a new life for themselves here?

00:56:58.200 - 00:57:12.620

From the outset, the church's role has been crucial. Specific churches, the Gethsemane Church in Berlin, St. Nicolai Church in Leipzig, were to become a focus of protest, a beacon of hope.

00:57:12.620 - 00:57:22.380

But across the country, all churches, the actual buildings, provided exactly what members of the growing protest movement needed, places where they could meet in safety

00:57:22.380 - 00:57:35.340

and talk without being harassed. The church opened its doors and offered sanctuary. - People were not able to meet even in rooms to large extent because there were discussion groups

00:57:37.060 - 00:57:56.380

who were then arrested because there were laws about assembly. Of course, many people did meet. I mean, I also met with people in this room very often, and it did happen. But again, that had to be confined to small groups, and you never felt quite secure.

00:57:56.380 - 00:58:15.640

So it quickly became apparent that the churches offered these spaces. The church offered the spaces, and the church also offered the facilities to photocopy material, and there were quite a number of illegal newspapers like Samistad were brought out by these various groups that had formed in the church

00:58:15.640 - 00:58:25.660

and they were produced in the churches as well. So the churches suddenly became a hive of propaganda? Yes, in a way. I mean, it was a cover.

00:58:25.660 - 00:58:45.400

It was a good place to do work in that you could not do anywhere else. It was not merely in the great cathedrals, grand churches at the heart of cities, but in modest parishes that the movement spread. Just under half the population of the GDR are members of Protestant churches.

00:58:45.400 - 00:59:01.900

Here in a suburb of Leipzig, Ulrike Birchner, pastor of a Lutheran congregation, felt the gospel spoke directly of oppression and of solidarity with the weak. Her parish typifies the grassroots backing for the protests that have escalated throughout the autumn.

00:59:01.900 - 00:59:26.860

We were there right from the beginning and we took an active part, but the political movement as you see it now started only, I would say, about two years ago, one and a half years ago, and then it escalated very quickly. And I think the main focus was this year in autumn, where not the people who wanted to

00:59:26.860 - 00:59:46.000

leave the country actually met at St. Nicolai Church, but those people who wanted to stay here met there and felt this is the first step to meet for service and afterwards something has to go on. And then we waited outside the church and we were talking about what we had heard.

00:59:46.000 - 01:00:00.300

And then one day we started to march. To what extent did the church initiate all the change? - The prayers for peace, again, I speak just now about Leipzig, became so important for the people

01:00:00.300 - 01:00:13.720

because there was no alternative for them to meet. So those people who felt under pressure and who wanted to work for change came to the churches, met in the churches for services and formed groups.

01:00:13.720 - 01:00:26.780

- Ever since Martin Luther, the GDR has been the heartland of the Lutheran Reformation. Unlike Poland, where the Catholic Church the atheist Marxist state are in direct opposition to each other, the Protestant churches of

01:00:26.780 - 01:00:49.620

East Germany have come to an accommodation with the state, an agreement to live and let live. In 1968, each citizen was given the constitutional right to profess a religion. In 1978, the new leader, Erich Honecker, acknowledged that the church was socially relevant. From that agreement onwards, throughout the 80s, the church held a significant place, albeit

01:00:49.620 - 01:01:11.940

waiting in the wings within East German society. Till '79 when this agreement was made, people who declared public their belonging to any religion had been disadvantaged very strong in their profession. They couldn't study at universities and so on.

01:01:11.940 - 01:01:35.580

But the number of people who public said, "We belong to a Protestant or Catholic church religion," was growing. So it was a danger of splitting the human society in East Germany in Marxism, Marxists, and people belonging to churches.

01:01:35.580 - 01:01:44.900

Now when did the churches become active as a place of dissent? And why? active. Well, when did they become involved?

01:01:44.900 - 01:02:10.580

When the people went to the churches because they had no other place to meet. When the number of protesters was growing, came to the situation that the church started, had to start to play an active role to demand human rights. This was what happened till just this day.

01:02:10.580 - 01:02:29.140

The Berlin Wall opened on November 9th. Four days later, in the little steel town of Hennigsdorf, 25 kilometers northwest of Berlin, Catholics and Protestants, many of them steel workers, come together for prayers and thanks, but also to keep up the pressure for change.

01:02:29.140 - 01:02:55.300

Hans Mittelwitz, a former biochemist, became a pastor because he was concerned for the future of human values in a planet threatened by the arms race and by pollution. One of those cherished human values is freedom. It is not simply an adoption of the liberation theology movement, let's say, in Latin America.

01:02:55.300 - 01:03:29.440

Our conditions are completely different. But by this way, and by the way, the church, and not only in this time, in this recent times. All the years now, the last 10 years, the church is learning to adopt and to create a theology which is supportive to the demands of liberty, freedom for the people.

01:03:29.440 - 01:03:52.320

The church held itself in readiness to speak out. On October 18th, Krenz replaces Honecker. The very next day, Krenz calls in Bishop Leich, one of those asking most strongly for reform. Why should a leader like Krenz, with a reputation as one of Honecker's men, one of the old guard, call in leaders of Protestant churches where the political ferment is now at its most intense?

01:03:52.320 - 01:04:14.740

Well, because the church leaders had been the partners. There had been no other partners, or the opposition met under the roofs of churches. So he had to call them. The other reform groups, they had no organization.

01:04:14.740 - 01:04:35.780

They had no head, really. So there had been no partners for a man like Egon Krenz, only the church leaders. Honecker had arranged talks for the 19th of October, but he was dismissed from office in the meantime. As soon as Krenz came into office on the 18th of October, he turned to

01:04:35.780 - 01:04:55.940

the church still wanting the talks to take place, and they did actually take place. Nevertheless, this gave the impression that the state now wanted to establish good relations with the church whilst not wanting to have anything to do with the newly founded groups. On the On the other hand, the church, with its talks with the Secretary General of the SED, was

01:04:55.940 - 01:05:21.300

at pains to make it very clear, "You've got to talk to these new groups. We are only here in our capacity to represent the people, but we are not your real partners in these talks. It is the people in these new movements who you have to deal with and take seriously." I think it was a clever move, because the church does have quite a large number of supporters,

01:05:21.300 - 01:05:44.380

Whether these be really strict Christians or not, I don't know, but just because they've had this role in the past ten years or so, the church have a high public... they enjoy a high public opinion among the people, and a lot of things that the church say would be important for large sectors of the population.

01:05:44.380 - 01:05:56.400

Just over three weeks after he takes power, Krents makes his first major reform, the one that will go down in history. In Berlin, on the 9th of November, the wall is declared open.

01:05:56.400 - 01:06:06.180

Great breaches are opened up in the bastion that had had such a tragic past. For in 1961, the building of the wall had sent a shudder through Europe.

01:06:06.180 - 01:06:18.400

In a century dominated by two major wars with Germany, other countries watched in horror, appalled to see that once again, Germany was where the battle lines were being drawn.

01:06:18.400 - 01:07:00.480

(gentle music) [Music] [Music] By 1984, 182 people had died trying to escape from the East.

01:07:00.480 - 01:07:13.480

But then, that same year, Gorbachev comes to power in the Soviet Union, and the years of Perestroika begin. Poland and Hungary see major changes, changes that are now sweeping into East Germany.

01:07:13.480 - 01:07:34.500

Since the summer, East Germans have been leaving the GDR in their hundreds of thousands, but those who fled were still breaking the law of their own country. I mean, there were criminals. There was a criminal law against defecting to the West without permission, and people were put into prison for 18 months or two years for that

01:07:34.500 - 01:07:51.540

if they were caught at it. And there was also an attempt to discriminate against them morally. I mean, they were regarded as traitors and so on. As East Germans poured towards West Germany through Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Austria, the GDR proposed travel concessions in a new travel law.

01:07:51.540 - 01:08:02.180

It was too little and too late. - Now this law, if it had been proposed a year ago, would have been absolutely greeted by the people. They have shouted for joy.

01:08:02.180 - 01:08:12.940

But now, after having had these demonstrations and after feeling that they have a right to be treated as human beings and as adults, there were huge protests against the restrictions

01:08:12.940 - 01:08:28.140

in this proposed law, And people were absolutely dissatisfied. They showed this so that the party and the government were just forced to take back that proposal

01:08:28.140 - 01:08:39.060

and to come out with something absolutely new. So I think this gives the people a feeling of having achieved something for themselves. And this is the most important thing.

01:08:39.060 - 01:08:48.940

More important than actually being to travel to and fro, which is, of course, important. The more important thing is to have felt that they have achieved this through their own means.

01:08:48.940 - 01:09:33.740

This hasn't been given to them as a present by the government. [ Music ] given a platform by the church the protest movement was given encouragement from another direction artists and intellectuals people of ideas and creative talents begin to put those ideas and talents at the service of reform

01:09:33.740 - 01:09:58.660

Horst Neumann is musical director of the Leipzig Radio Orchestra on the day after Gorbachev visited East Berlin for the 40th anniversary celebrations of the Republic police break up one of the largest demonstrations ever seen in East Germany with violence and brutality Brutality they stand poised for more the protesters can withdraw or stand their ground The orchestra decides to issue a statement

01:09:58.660 - 01:10:21.480

Phones me on Monday the 9th of October in Berlin To prepare such a declaration and I said it was a day off we had no rehearsal and I decided this moment Okay, I prepare it and I come down to Leipzig just now To be with you on the demonstration and to make this declaration

01:10:21.480 - 01:10:45.040

For two nights the country is on a knife's edge Thoughts of Peking's Tiananmen Square of Prague spring of 68 are in people's minds. It is a time that calls for courage The declaration was under the 9th of October exactly the day where everybody in the city knew that the police forces had ordered to shoot and

01:10:46.700 - 01:11:01.700

and to use any violence against the demonstrators. The equipment the police forces have, this was a matter which really terrified me when I saw it on the street,

01:11:01.700 - 01:11:22.200

was an equipment prepared for civil war. I could not believe that the government has a police force which is prepared for a civil war. So it was, while dangerous, wasn't it the question this day, on this day, if it is dangerous or not?

01:11:22.200 - 01:11:44.680

It had to be done, and we had to break the structure we had, otherwise the country would not have a future, and then a civil war would have come anyway. Meanwhile in Berlin, the theatres are mobilizing their audiences. it has long been a tradition there for audiences to remain after a performance to discuss the

01:11:44.680 - 01:12:08.820

evening's play. those regular discussions are to take a new direction. members of the berliner ensemble set up by brecht in the 40s and still dedicated to performances of his work begin their autumn season in low spirits. then they too decide to take action. and we met in the ensemble, in the company.

01:12:08.820 - 01:12:20.800

And we tried to make our own concrete analysis of the concrete situation because the government and all the leading personalities of the Socialist Party

01:12:20.800 - 01:12:40.420

and of the government had lost their language. There was a great silence. And so we discussed what we can do and we wrote resolutions with our demands, send it to the leaders of the unities,

01:12:40.420 - 01:12:59.020

to the leaders of the government and to the socialist party, no answer, no echo. And after a fortnight, the representatives of the theaters, Berlin Ensemble, Deutsches Theater, Volksbühne,

01:12:59.020 - 01:13:20.260

Maxim Gorki Theater, the four drama theaters of East Berlin, they started to organize a great protest demonstration. - Of the churches, I think the theaters were the first spaces where the movement became articulate.

01:13:20.260 - 01:13:32.420

Because the theater people felt, why leave it all to churches? We also have public places, we have places where people come and meet in large numbers.

01:13:32.420 - 01:13:43.900

So why don't we start discussing? So the theater started first amongst themselves. And it was decided to have, say, talks after the productions, after the plays,

01:13:43.900 - 01:13:52.820

with the audiences, which started off talking about the plays, but then, of course, immediately went into political discussions. - And do the audiences respond?

01:13:52.820 - 01:14:03.220

- Absolutely, absolutely. And after the performances, after special performances, we talk with the audience, who is inspired by the political themes.

01:14:03.220 - 01:14:17.820

And every fortnight, we are inviting special groups of the society, teachers, workers of the great industries, in our foyer, to discuss with them their problems.

01:14:17.820 - 01:14:30.620

The Berliner has now revised its repertoire of plays. No longer seeking the censor's approval, they, like other theaters, are playing political plays. And musicians, for their part, are singing political songs.

01:14:30.620 - 01:14:45.860

Another important sector were the rock musicians. The rock musicians very early on during the movement passed a resolution which was very critically worded, demanding that reforms be made, demanding democracy,

01:14:45.860 - 01:14:56.460

saying that because so many people were leaving the country, the country was obviously in a state of crisis and making very, very important demands. And this resolution, this statement,

01:14:56.460 - 01:15:06.940

was read before every rock concert by the rock musicians. And at the beginning, they were threatened. They were told not to do so. Some of them were arrested for a short while.

01:15:06.940 - 01:15:16.220

There were threats to stop the rock concerts. And if they weren't allowed to read the statement, then they sang it to music. But there was no concert without the statement being made.

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- Changes are now coming fast. It is a time to keep talking. And sustaining the momentum of political involvement is a job that also falls to the churches.

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Leipzig has become legendary for the mass demonstrations every Monday night. It's Leipzig's example that other cities have followed. So there's naturally mounting concern here, the cradle of so much protest,

01:15:39.460 - 01:15:57.260

about exactly what's going to happen next. Ulrike Birchner is concerned with the lives of all her congregation. She is herself a member of New Forum, the platform organisation without party political allegiance that is keeping open debate going

01:15:57.260 - 01:16:20.460

at the home of one of her parishioners she listens with sympathy to all those present each one of them from a family that has lost one or more members to the west Mark Dietrich Ose's father-in-law was medical director of a hospital in Leipzig last month he wrote to the district administration suggesting overdue reforms

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it got him into trouble. A mere two hours before the border was opened, he crossed to West Germany. Mark and his wife now have the choice to join him or to stay. I think we all have to live here because I think everybody, we need to reform our society and the beginning is done but we wait for the next steps and it's very difficult and so we need anybody.

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An important function for the church from now on, for all the churches and parishes and congregations, is to persuade people to stay and help make reform a reality. Tino Heintko works with the mentally handicapped. If he went, who would care for them? He is staying. In Leipzig, 90 doctors left, and also the personal nurses and so on, staff, and it's

01:17:24.620 - 01:17:38.620

a terrible situation. Some wards are closed, some operations theatres closed, they can't work anymore. 90 doctors have gone to the West? Yes, only from Leipzig.

01:17:38.620 - 01:17:54.520

But the church is increasingly conscious of another role. Within the explosion of freedom, the exhilaration of choice, there is now anger. Anger at the dreaded secret police, the Stasi. Rage at their violence, their brutality.

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There is an impulse towards revenge and reprisals. Church people are putting themselves in the front line to prevent such things happening. If you have watched some of the demonstrations, they have got a new quality and not a better quality.

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If you were here last Monday, yesterday, the demonstrations have become much more aggressive than they used to be. They were not aggressive in the beginning. On the contrary, they had a very strong atmosphere and feeling of solidarity and also of happiness.

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felt as if they were joining a big party and that was wonderful. People became aware of their strength and of all the good which mass can produce and now it has swapped. So you see the church keeping the peace now between the different... how will it do that? Well, a lot of church people march alongside and look for troublemakers.

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And also quite a number of church people formed a kind of row with banners saying "no violence" and they tried to protect the building of the state security. They surrounded it this way. This will be the first step.

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Does the church still see a political role for itself in the future? No, it won't really play a political role as such. Of course, it will have an influence on political developments for the following reason. Our main task is spreading the gospel.

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The gospel, of course, concerns man in all aspects of his social and political life. This means looking at his social needs as well as his political needs, each individual is at the same time a citizen of the state. In this sense, we may still have a little political influence here and there.

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For each of those who have loved ones now in the West, there is the sadness of separation. The church, with its closeness of families and neighbours, offers not only support and consolation but the shared grief of other divided homes. I tried to ask her, "Can't you find a motivation to live here?

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We need you here. We have to change things here for the better." And she didn't want to wait so long. The system lasts so long.

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How long shall I wait? Here will never, never the system will change, she said. And many were of the same opinion, as you can see. Uti Haring wants to be a painter.

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She left for the West earlier this year. It was the rigid, regimented way of life that drove her away. But now that the border is open and Uti can be in touch, can come back and visit, does her mother Ellen feel the opening of the frontier brings them closer?

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Our dream is now that she can come here for Christmas. And up to now, it's not quite clear. There was an amnesty one week ago. And for this reason, she is no longer a criminal.

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She was, because she left. And so it shouldn't be a problem anymore, but it's not written down by law. But I think until Christmas, a decision is made. There are so many, they want to come back to meet people.

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He also sees their home again. And Christmas will be just the time. Ah, yes. Would be a dream.

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I understand almost everyone of my parishioners who have left. I do understand them. And on the other hand, I feel if they all go, what is going to happen here? They are so good people, so important people, and we need them here to work on this new

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society and we miss them a lot. Would you now prevail on people not to go? Most people I know took a long time to think about this step. So I can only be there and say to them, or first to listen to them and then say to them,

01:22:34.340 - 01:22:51.260

"Well, if you could stay, would you perhaps rethink this step?" But if they decided to go, I would say, "Well, for you the pressure was so strong, you had to go. "But maybe one day you feel you can come back

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"and that would be good." - Just as these camps in the West were made ready to house the deluge of arrivals over the summer, so now East Germany prepares to receive its prodigal sons.

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Already there are indications some 10,000 emigrants have had a change of heart. With talk of free elections in the offing, it's almost as though the major objectives were within reach,

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although not everyone feels that way. I have a very strong worry about the next elections, if I may say this very frankly. I think the opening of the border came far too suddenly

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and a lot of people feel, "Oh, Egon Krenz has done it. "Isn't he a marvellous man? "And now we can trust the communists again." And this is, I think, a wrong conclusion.

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For 40 years, it was a very difficult situation where people could not experience freedom, many kinds of freedom which they needed. And only now that with one little step,

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people feel so satisfied. This worries me a lot. Every election now would not bring the success the country needs really. And I think we have some gentlemen in parties and government who understand that they have

01:24:23.500 - 01:24:43.760

to govern now with a great responsibility. Maybe they should call men to govern who are experts on the different sections of a country, but not belonging to a party, because this is not necessary now. We need experts.

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Is there a danger that the electorate might be so innocent that in a political... They could follow leaders, demagogues, dangerous men? Well, I think, yeah, it was all time a danger in the German history. Sorry about that.

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But I think the time for demagogues is going. I think the revolution, I think we had a revolution. But it is the first peaceful revolution in the history. I don't have special knowledge about history, but I don't remember another revolution which

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happened really absolutely peaceful. So doesn't it say something about the quality of the political understanding of the people in our country? The new forum has been the group creating a platform for differing views to be heard.

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Their concept is a new, almost contradictory one, to take the politics out of the hands of politicians. I mean, what we say is we don't want to substitute one politburo for another. So we're trying not to become too tight in our programme. We're trying to be as broad and democratic as possible.

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But as you suggest, if the developments do go on, we may have to become more concentrated, more definite in our objectives, which might also mean that we lose some of our supporters and more incisive. But I don't know.

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That depends on political development. The Brandenburg Gate, the next major crossing point to be opened, symbol of Berlin's former Will its opening now herald the reunification of Germany? Reunification seems more readily spoken of among the foreign press.

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foreign press. [BLANK_AUDIO]