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She did all the quilting in. >> Mm-hm, I'm gonna ask you about that. >> And I've got a double wedding ring to look for. >> Yeah, those are pretty, yeah.

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Let me roll some bars here. You're rolling some color bars. Yeah, it's just enough light. Yeah.

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Okay. We'll start out now, I'll do a little thing at the beginning. I'm not on camera, but just so we know what day it is and all that stuff. I just do a little lead in.

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Not that we would ever- >> Rolling. >> Okay. >> Good luck, Mary. >> Thanks.

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>> [LAUGH] >> I'm Deanie Parish. Today we're interviewing Mary Tilton. She was a WASP, class 43-4. We are in her home at Mary Esther, Florida.

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Today is the 21st of April, 2003. The videographer is Nancy Parish. Okay, Mary, we'll start off if you will tell us your full name and when and where you were born.

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>> My full name is Mary Josephine Farley. I was born in Oranges Place, Texas in 1922. >> Okay, tell me, Mary, about your parents. What was your mom like?

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>> Mom was a mother to all the kids. And she was the pianist at the church and also the vocalist in the choir. >> And how about your dad?

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What did your dad do? >> Daddy was a mechanic at the shrimp cannery. And also had shrimp boats. >> Did you ever go out on those shrimp boats?

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>> Yeah, we'd go out and go fishing. [LAUGH] >> Tell me about your siblings, your brothers and sisters. >> I had one brother that was Milton and two sisters,

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one, Anna Louise and Cecile. Anna Louise is the only one that's still living, and she's in Harlington, Texas. >> Okay, Mary, when you were born, did your family live inside the city or did they live out on a farm?

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>> No, we lived inside the city. >> Okay, and let me back to grandparents. >> My grandparents on both sides were farmers. [LAUGH] >> Okay, did they live around

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Oranges Pass? >> My dad's mother and father did. Mothers lived up in Central Texas, and they were farmers too.

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But the Farleys that lived there in Oranges, the grandparents, they had grape orchards. And in the wintertime or the summertime, well, when the grapes were ripe, they'd have all kinds of people come in there and pick grapes.

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>> Did they make grape juice or wine or what did they do with those grapes? Did they- >> They sold them. >> Okay. >> Cuz they didn't- >> Did they live outside of town then?

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>> Yeah, they lived out in the country. >> Okay, tell me what it was like to go out and visit them. >> It was real nice. Grandma was a good cook and kept us.

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[LAUGH] >> Okay, what do you remember that she cooked? What was special? >> I don't remember.

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That's been so long ago. [LAUGH] >> Right, during the summer times, would you take your vacation time, would you go out and stay? >> We'd go out and spend the weekends and all.

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And then- >> When you would go out to your grandmothers, would you have chores to do out there? >> No, we'd just swing and play around. [LAUGH] >> When you started school,

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how close were you to the school when you started? >> About two blocks. >> So you walked? >> Yeah, we walked.

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>> Okay. When you were growing up, Mary, tell me, what was Christmas like in your home? >> Well, Santa Claus came at night, and the next morning, we'd go through the presents.

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>> How about a Christmas tree? Would your dad go out and cut it down? Would you have a Christmas tree? >> Yeah, we'd have a Christmas tree.

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Yeah, because we had all kinds of trees around the house, and we'd cut them down and make a Christmas tree. >> Do you remember decorating that tree, what the ornaments were like, what the roping was like?

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>> Well, there was a lot of stencil type things that you put on. >> Okay, would you decorate the tree a long time before Christmas, or would you? >> No, we usually put it up, I think, a couple days before. >> Okay, and for Christmas, would your grandparents come to your house?

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>> That lived there, yeah, they'd come, or either that, or sometimes we'd go over to their house. >> Okay, and what was Christmas dinner like? >> Turkey.

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>> Turkey? >> [LAUGH] >> Sweet potato pies, pecan pies. >> Do you remember having to wash the dishes? >> No. >> No.

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>> [LAUGH] >> There were enough adults there that took care of that. >> Okay, before you started school even, do you recall any of the games that you played with your siblings?

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>> No. >> Okay. >> Sure don't. >> When you started school, in elementary school,

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do you recall any of your teachers that were special to you? >> No, not right off. >> Okay, you said your mother was involved in the church. >> Mm-hm.

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>> Tell me about that. >> Well, she played the piano and sang in the choir. >> Okay. >> And this was the first Baptist church there in Duranges Pass.

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>> Okay. >> And we were all brought up in that church. >> Okay, do you remember any special Sunday school teacher you might have had? >> My grandmother, I guess, is probably the only one I can remember.

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>> Okay. When you were in elementary school, do you remember what you liked best about going to school? >> Something happened when I first started school.

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And we were outside playing, and I heard this sound that was up in the air somewhere, and I thought, what in the world is that? And then I saw this airplane flying. And I said to myself, I'm going to fly an airplane one day.

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And it was a plane that had come out from Randolph Field in San Antonio. They were coming down. So that was the beginning of my flying. >> Right.

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>> [LAUGH] >> When you were in elementary, at what age did that happen? Do you have any idea? >> I was six.

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>> You were six. >> Mm-hm. >> And then when was the next time you saw an airplane that you recall? >> I don't recall.

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>> Okay. Growing up, and you would go out to your grandparents sometime during the summertime, did you take other vacations, your family together, go anywhere? >> Well, we'd go to my grandparents up in San Marcos, mother's family.

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>> Okay. And what was your favorite thing to do at that grandparent's house? >> Go down to the river and swim. >> [LAUGH]

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>> San Marcos, yeah. >> They were just about a couple of blocks from the river. >> Okay. Tell me what your swimming suit was like.

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>> It was a one-piece one. >> Yeah. >> [LAUGH] >> Because I was young then, so.

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>> Right. When you were growing up, did you have your own bedroom, or did you share a bedroom with? >> No, I had my own bedroom.

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>> Okay. >> It was about six years after my sister was born. >> Okay, she's younger? >> She's younger, I'm the oldest.

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>> Okay, okay. >> So I had my own room. >> Right. When you finished elementary school,

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then did you have to change schools to go to a junior high or a middle school? >> We had a high school that was in a different place. >> Okay, and at that time, was high school from seventh grade through 12th, or was there an intermediate?

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>> Seven through 11. >> Seven through 11. >> Yeah, we had 11. >> Okay.

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When you started high school, could you still walk to school? >> Yes, I was about two blocks from school. >> Okay, then what did you do for lunch? Did you go home for lunch or did you take a sack?

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>> I think I took a lunch with me. >> Right, okay. Once you got in high school, what was your favorite subject? >> [LAUGH]

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>> English, I guess. [LAUGH] >> Okay. >> Because I didn't care much about the math.

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[LAUGH] >> When you were in high school, did you do extracurricular things, like speech or drama or? >> We did some drama and a lot of sporting things.

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>> Okay, were you into sports? >> Yeah. >> What did you? >> Basketball and baseball.

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>> Okay, did your school compete with other schools in athletics? >> Yes, in that area, yeah. >> Okay, were you ever on any of the teams that would go to other schools to compete? >> Yeah.

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>> Okay, in high school, did you have cheerleaders, for example, with your football? Did you have a football team? >> There was a football team and there were cheerleaders.

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>> Okay. >> But I wasn't in that. >> Right, as you were growing up, who was your role model? >> [LAUGH] I don't remember.

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>> Okay. >> It might have been an aunt that was teaching school. >> Okay, and what would have made her special to you? >> Well, she was just always so nice when you were there visiting and

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looked like she cared a lot about you and all. >> Okay, when you were in high school, did you date a lot of boys? Was that a part of your life? >> Not a lot, no.

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>> Okay. As far as the church activities, were you involved with their social activities at church? Did you go to summer camp, for example?

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>> Not that I recall. >> Okay. Or did they have special social events for the young people that went to that church?

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>> I don't think. >> Okay. >> That's been so long ago. >> Right.

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>> [LAUGH] >> What was your mother? Was she a soprano? >> Yes. >> Okay.

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Did your dad participate in church activities? >> No, he was a member of the church, but- >> Right, okay. During the summer times when you were in high school,

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did you still spend your summers mainly with your grandparents? >> Out on the farm in town, I mean, not in the country, yeah. >> Mm-hm. >> Okay.

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>> Did you have a high school prom? >> I don't recall. >> Okay. How large was your high school, Mary?

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>> I think we had some 30 in our class, I think, was around that. >> What kind of student were you? >> Average. >> Okay.

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>> [LAUGH] >> What was your ambition? What did you think you- >> Flying, I was gonna fly. >> You were still gonna fly? >> Yep. >> When did you see an airplane or,

00:14:00.680 - 00:14:26.160

tell me about the first time that you went up to an airplane. >> There was a man in town that had an airplane that was on a road going to Rockport. It just had a piece of land out there that he flew off.

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He had a cub. And when I was in high school, well, in fact his son was in the place with me, that's the reason I knew so much about him. And when school was over,

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I got a job at the cashier at the theater in town. And I started taking flying lessons from him. And flew out of the cow pasture. And I got my, that was

00:15:10.560 - 00:15:21.080

a year I guess or so that I was flying out of there. >> Okay, tell me about this cow pasture. Were there cows nearby? >> Yeah, there were cows nearby.

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>> [LAUGH] >> But he tried to keep them away from the plane. So when he took off the land, he wouldn't hit them. >> Did he have a windsock?

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>> Yeah, there was a windsock. >> Okay. Tell me about the first time you ever went up in that airplane. >> Well, it was a lot of fun.

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I was taking around and all. >> How did you get out to the airport? How far was the airport? >> It was about five miles or so.

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>> Did you have a car? >> I drove the family car. >> What did your mom and dad think about you flying? >> Well, they evidently thought it was all right.

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>> [LAUGH] >> That's what I wanted to do. >> [LAUGH] >> I'm gonna back up and ask you about your high school graduation. Did you have robes?

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>> Yeah, we had robes. >> Okay, did you have a high school banquet? Do you recall? >> No, we didn't.

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>> Okay, what was your social life like in high school? >> Basically, sports and dating occasionally. >> Okay, did you have any particular girlfriends that you have stayed in contact with?

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>> The ones that lived, of course, there was one right across the street from me, and we went to a place together. She's passed away. And the other ones I haven't kept in contact with at all.

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>> Okay, when you go back to visit, around this past, is there anyone there now that you remember? That you visit with or? >> No, not that I recall.

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>> Okay. Okay, when you decide you're gonna learn to fly, and that first flight that you made, was it Piper Club? >> Mm-hm.

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>> Do you recall how you felt? >> I felt fine. Boy, that was something really. >> Okay.

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>> [LAUGH] >> How did you earn money to take those flying lessons? >> Well, with the cashier at the theater in town. >> Yours paid more than mine did.

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>> [LAUGH] >> So, you would cashier at night. >> Yeah, I'd cashier at night. >> And then pay, do you remember how much your flying lessons cost? For a half an hour?

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>> $12 a half hour, I think. >> Right, okay. At one, did you know from the first time you went up in that airplane, that that's exactly what you wanted to do?

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>> Yes, yes. >> Oh, yes, oh, yes. >> Okay. >> [LAUGH] >> Were you,

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then tell me about your first solo flight. Tell me about how that happened. Had you been around a couple times, or how did that happen? >> Well, I think I'd been flying, I think, around ten hours before I soloed.

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>> Mm-hm. >> And then I took off and went across the highway and down by the water side and flew around the country and came back in and landed.

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>> Okay, do you remember the date approximately when that was, Mary? >> No, I don't. >> Or what year it was? >> It was '42.

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>> Okay, and then once you soloed, then- >> I'd go out and fly all around in that area. >> Okay, did you ever take either your mom or your dad up with you?

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>> No, Mother wasn't about to go. >> [LAUGH] >> Daddy didn't either. >> [LAUGH] >> Did any of your brothers or sisters learn to fly?

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>> No. >> They just weren't interested? >> I guess not. >> Right, okay.

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Do you recall where you were when Pearl Harbor happened and how you felt about that? >> Yeah, I was cashiering at the theater when that happened. >> Okay, and what was your thought about that?

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>> That was really something, I couldn't believe it was happening. And right after that, I had a chance to go to work at the Naval Base over in Corpus Christi and I went to work over there. >> What did you do over there?

00:20:15.960 - 00:20:24.360

>> [LAUGH] >> What was your job? Were you a riveter? >> I was an airplane engine mechanic. >> Good for you.

00:20:24.360 - 00:20:40.440

>> And I did that for several months. In fact, I was a crew chief. And then they needed a pilot for link trainer instructors, so I was link trainer instructor.

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>> Okay, let me ask you, how did you get qualified to be a mechanic? Cuz that's a specialized job to work on airplanes. >> Well, I just, I was, I don't know whether- >> Did you learn on the job, more or less?

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Or did you take the course? >> A lot, yeah. I was strictly on the job. >> Okay, and what kind of airplanes were you working on?

00:21:07.760 - 00:21:23.960

>> All these naval planes, engines, I'm not sure. >> Okay, right. So then, did you have to take a course then to be able to teach link trainer? >> No, I- >> Or you worked on it?

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>> I worked on it. >> Okay. >> Well, no, in fact, I taught that. So we went to school to learn how to teach the link trainers.

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>> Okay, were there other girls who also went to this school? >> Yeah, there was another several, but I don't remember what their names were. >> I gotta stop for a second. >> Okay, as I would imagine.

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>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Once you started teaching link trainer, who were you teaching?

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>> The naval pilots. >> Okay. >> That were going, that were learning to fly there. >> Okay, so they were cadets.

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>> Yeah, the cadets, yeah. >> Okay. Do you recall how long the course was for each cadet? >> No. >> Did they have to have so many hours?

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>> I really don't. >> Okay. What did you enjoy about teaching link? >> Well, it was just something new and it was helping me too,

00:22:26.480 - 00:22:44.960

because I was taking more pilot training over at the Corpus Christi airport. >> Okay, when you started working at Corpus, did you move from home? >> Yes, I did. >> Okay, where did you live then?

00:22:44.960 - 00:23:01.160

>> In the area there in Corpus Christi. >> Okay, did you live in a private home and rent a room or in a rooming house? What was the housing like? >> I think I had an apartment.

00:23:01.160 - 00:23:15.120

>> Okay. And while you were in Corpus Christi, did you have your own car? Did you ride the bus to the naval station? >> I rode the bus.

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>> Okay. And at that point, tell me what it was like in America when World War II had now started. >> Well, it was just being with the naval base and all,

00:23:33.200 - 00:23:59.160

it was just strictly flying and seeing what's going on, or listening to radio to see what was going on with the war over there in Hawaii. >> Okay, in the meantime, was any of your family involved in the military?

00:23:59.160 - 00:24:10.720

>> No, just me. I mean. >> And what did you, when you started working at the Navy base, and especially when you went into link trainers, what was your ambition at that point?

00:24:10.720 - 00:24:27.400

What did you think you would do? >> Well, I wanted to fly. And it was there at the naval base when I got the notice from Jacqueline Cochran if I was interested in becoming a pilot.

00:24:27.400 - 00:24:39.440

And of course I was, so. >> Had you heard about that training program on your own, or did you just get a letter in the mail? >> It was just a letter in the mail.

00:24:39.440 - 00:24:58.040

>> Okay, so evidently she had gone through the FAA records and found you. At that time, did you know any other girls who were flying? >> No. >> So when you started flying,

00:24:58.040 - 00:25:07.600

you did not know, you didn't have any friends who were flying. >> Mm-mm. >> What made you think you could do that? >> I just knew I could.

00:25:07.600 - 00:25:18.560

[LAUGH] >> Okay. Do you still have the letter from Miss Cochran? >> I don't think so.

00:25:18.560 - 00:25:35.400

>> Okay. >> I don't recall seeing it. >> Since you were in a wartime job, how were you able to quit that job? I know at that time, if you were in a job like that, ordinarily you couldn't quit.

00:25:35.400 - 00:25:41.800

>> Well, it was all civil service. >> Okay. >> So was the WASP, so. >> Right. >> It was just changing.

00:25:41.800 - 00:25:50.400

>> Okay. Once you got that letter, and you told your parents about it, what did your parents think? >> Well, they thought it was all right.

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>> Okay. So what did you do next? >> Well, I still worked there until I got the call to report out to Sweetwater. >> Okay.

00:26:01.600 - 00:26:19.800

>> And that was in March, I guess, of '43. >> Okay. When you told your folks that you were going to Sweetwater, had you ever been in West Texas?

00:26:19.800 - 00:26:27.560

>> No. >> No. Okay. How did you get from Corpus Christi to Sweetwater?

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>> On a bus. >> On a bus. When you got to Sweetwater, tell me how you felt, what you saw and how you felt. >> Well, it was a lot different out there, that's for sure.

00:26:41.040 - 00:26:55.480

Flatlands and desert, well, not deserts, but. Pastures and stuff. >> Okay. By this time, Mary, about how many hours did you have flying privately?

00:26:55.480 - 00:27:11.080

>> I imagine around 100. >> Okay. When you got to Sweetwater on the bus, and you got off the bus, were there any other girls on that bus with you that were also reporting?

00:27:11.080 - 00:27:28.600

>> No. >> When you got off that bus, what did you do? >> I evidently had a phone number to call, and I called and told them that I was there, and I took a taxi out to the base.

00:27:28.600 - 00:27:50.920

>> Okay. And when you got out to Avenger Field, what did you see? >> Barracks. >> Describe the barracks. >> A whole string of one-story buildings, and they were out like this,

00:27:50.920 - 00:28:06.040

and they were cut into different rooms. >> Okay. When you came up to Avenger Field, did you see airplanes? >> There were some out on the runway. >> Okay. Was that impressive to you?

00:28:06.040 - 00:28:21.560

>> Mm-hmm. >> Okay. So, when you went on up to the -- to the air base and went in, who did you meet? >> I'm not sure.

00:28:21.560 - 00:28:30.320

>> Okay. Some of the administration? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Tell me about the personnel that ran that air base. Do you recall?

00:28:38.600 - 00:29:01.440

>> Of course, there were a lot of male pilots, but we had -- everything was furnished, I mean, meals and everything. So, we had cooks and canteens. That's my squirrel.

00:29:01.440 - 00:29:14.800

And people that took care of all the training papers. >> Mm-hmm. Okay. How about your commanding officer? Do you know who that was?

00:29:14.800 - 00:29:27.560

>> Not offhand. >> Okay. But it was a military man, not a civilian? >> No, there was -- I don't recall. >> Okay. That's okay.

00:29:27.560 - 00:29:42.120

When you got to the base, then did you meet other girls who were going to be in your class? >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. How did they then assign you to your barracks?

00:29:42.120 - 00:29:57.160

>> I'm not sure. We just -- there were six of us in a room. >> Okay. Describe what that room was like inside. >> Well, there was a table down sort of in the middle

00:29:57.160 - 00:30:18.880

of the room, and there were six cots to sleep on. And there was a -- the bathroom was between two rooms. So, there were 12 of us in a bathroom. We had two toilets, two basins, and two showers.

00:30:18.880 - 00:30:35.960

So, you can imagine what it was like trying to get a shower or trying to get into the bathroom. But it worked out. >> Okay. What -- did you have uniforms?

00:30:35.960 - 00:30:54.720

>> Yeah, we had, well, pants and shirts. >> Okay. And what were you issued to fly in? >> Just pants and -- >> Okay. Did you have coveralls of some type?

00:30:54.720 - 00:31:17.320

>> I don't recall coveralls. >> Okay. When you got to Avenger, was Miss Cochran there? >> I think she was, but it was just for a short time. >> Okay. Tell me about some of the rules.

00:31:17.320 - 00:31:36.520

Did you have rules? >> Well, I guess we had, but I don't remember. >> Okay. Could you tell me about what was expected of you, how -- about the program itself, how long it was going

00:31:36.520 - 00:31:46.920

to be, what you would have to do to complete that program and graduate? >> We had to have so many hours. >> Okay.

00:31:46.920 - 00:32:02.360

>> And -- >> In addition, did you have ground school? >> Yeah, we had ground school. >> Do you recall any of the courses

00:32:02.360 - 00:32:17.960

that you took in ground school? >> Weather courses and -- >> Did you find ground school difficult? >> No.

00:32:17.960 - 00:32:24.400

>> Okay. >> No. >> What was your schedule like? What would a day be like for you?

00:32:24.400 - 00:32:44.720

>> Well, just in the morning, go get your breakfast and do some PE, and then doing your ground school, and then your flying. >> Okay. When you went into training,

00:32:44.720 - 00:33:05.880

what was your conception of why they were using girls? >> Because they wanted the men to get overseas and fight in the war. >> Okay. What was the first airplane you flew at Avenger?

00:33:05.880 - 00:33:14.400

>> PT-13. >> Okay. And what -- who made that, do you know? >> Stearman. >> Stearman, okay.

00:33:14.400 - 00:33:20.560

>> What's it called? >> Woodstraw, Kansas. >> Okay. Do you remember your first flight instructor at Avenger?

00:33:20.560 - 00:33:38.400

>> Parker, I think. >> Oh, okay. Tell me about your first time up in a primary trainer. Was that a big leap for you?

00:33:38.400 - 00:33:56.080

>> Oh, gosh, yes. From a little old cub down here to -- we've got two wings and all. And of course, you had to wear a helmet and goggles,

00:33:56.080 - 00:34:14.160

but it was fun. >> How could you talk to your instructor in that airplane, do you remember? >> We had a headset type thing that he could talk into.

00:34:14.160 - 00:34:21.040

>> Gosport? >> I guess, yeah. >> Yeah, okay. When you went in training,

00:34:21.040 - 00:34:33.160

what did they tell you your training would consist of? Would you go from primary like to basic? >> Primary to basic to advanced. >> Advanced, okay.

00:34:33.160 - 00:34:49.080

And in your particular bay, did any of your bay mates wash out? >> Yes, they did. >> And how did that make you feel?

00:34:49.080 - 00:34:56.120

>> Sorry that they didn't make it. >> Okay. >> And hopefully I didn't end up that way, too. >> All right.

00:34:56.120 - 00:35:08.600

In the beginning, did they tell you the things that would cause you to wash out? >> No. >> Okay. Describe for me some of the different type girls

00:35:08.600 - 00:35:23.280

who were in the same bay with you. Were they all from Texas? >> No, they were from all of New York and all around. >> Okay. Did you have any unusual occupations those girls

00:35:23.280 - 00:35:33.920

had had before they came in to? >> Not that I recall. >> Okay. Have you kept in touch, or did you become fast friends with any

00:35:33.920 - 00:35:52.520

of your classmates in the WASP? When you had enough hours in primary, before you could go on to basic, tell me about check rides that you might have had.

00:35:52.520 - 00:36:02.680

Do you recall that they would give you a check ride? >> Yeah, there was a check ride. >> Okay. And that was done by whom? >> I don't recall.

00:36:02.680 - 00:36:14.560

>> Okay. >> They had check pilots. I think there were check pilots. >> Okay. When you were in primary, did everybody fly off

00:36:14.560 - 00:36:34.760

of just Avenger, or did you have some auxiliary fields? Well, let me ask you this. Did anything unusual happen to you while you were in primary, for example?

00:36:34.760 - 00:36:46.720

>> No. >> No? Okay. While you were in training, were any of the girls killed? >> I don't think.

00:36:46.720 - 00:37:02.040

>> Okay. I know when you got to Avenger, were you the first class of girls there, or were there some girls already there? >> No, we were the first ones that were there.

00:37:02.040 - 00:37:15.760

And the ones that had been taking their training down in Houston came up later. >> Okay. So there was an unusual circumstance when you got there, because there were some pilots there, right?

00:37:15.760 - 00:37:22.840

>> The males. >> Tell me about those. >> Yeah, there was, in the barracks, there were a whole bunch of males.

00:37:22.840 - 00:37:38.580

And, of course, when we started coming in, they had to move out. >> Okay. Anything strange happen between the cadets who were there and these girl pilots that came in? >> I don't think.

00:37:38.580 - 00:37:48.160

>> Okay. Did you eat in the same mess hall? >> Mm-hmm. >> Okay. Once you got through primary, did you have some time off?

00:37:48.160 - 00:38:03.600

>> I don't know. I don't think so. >> While you were in training, did you go into Sweetwater and meet any of the people who live in Sweetwater?

00:38:03.600 - 00:38:19.400

>> We did, yes. There was a truck that would pick us up and take us into a building where we could meet the people there and do some kind of activities.

00:38:19.400 - 00:38:29.080

>> Okay. Do you recall any of the people in Sweetwater that you might have met? >> No, never. >> Okay. Did you ever go out to anybody's home

00:38:29.080 - 00:38:42.160

or to swim or anything? >> No, not that I recall. >> Okay. While you were at Sweetwater, were there church services available on the base

00:38:42.160 - 00:38:53.800

or did you go into town or? >> They were on the base. >> Okay. When you went into basic, what was basic all about?

00:38:53.800 - 00:39:10.120

>> A different aircraft. So many hours with an instructor and then flying solo. >> Okay. Did you get a lot of instrument training in basic? >> Mm-hmm.

00:39:10.120 - 00:39:22.060

>> Okay. >> But when I was, before I got into the WASP, I was a link trainer instructor out at the Naval Base in Corpus Christi.

00:39:22.060 - 00:39:39.940

So that was not a great big deal for me because I had that experience. >> Okay. Okay. And so the link trainer was a part of the basic training

00:39:39.940 - 00:39:50.140

for all the girls? >> All the girls. >> Okay. Do you recall anything that did give you trouble in ground school, for example, Morse code?

00:39:50.140 - 00:40:01.540

Was that an easy subject for you? >> No, that's, code's not. >> Oh, okay. And why did you need Morse code?

00:40:01.540 - 00:40:16.840

>> Well, some of the flights that have radios in them were not able to pick up voices. We'd have the -- >> Morse code to navigate?

00:40:16.840 - 00:40:30.440

>> Morse code, yeah. >> Okay. Then once you finished basic -- >> Okay. >> When you finished basic training,

00:40:30.440 - 00:40:45.200

then what kind of airplane did you start flying? >> T6s. >> Okay. And what was different about that T6? >> Oh, it was just faster and it was just better.

00:40:45.200 - 00:40:57.560

>> Of all the airplanes you've flown, what's your favorite? >> Beechcraft. >> Oh, okay. I thought maybe you'd say T6.

00:40:57.560 - 00:41:10.440

In advanced training, what did you do different in advanced training than you had done before? >> I don't -- >> Okay. Did you have any cross-country training?

00:41:10.440 - 00:41:22.280

>> We did some cross-country. >> Okay. Recall for me one of the trips that you went on. >> To El Paso. Sweetwater to El Paso.

00:41:22.280 - 00:41:35.180

>> Okay. Did you go in a group? >> I think there was two or three of us all. >> Okay. Anything unusual happen on that trip?

00:41:35.180 - 00:41:57.760

>> No. We went over to Mexico. >> You want to tell me about going to Mexico? >> No. We have a base there at El Paso and then we got into town and went over to Mexico and had something to eat

00:41:57.760 - 00:42:14.320

and something to drink. Looked around and see what they had. >> Okay. While you were in training, did anything unusual happen to you, for example,

00:42:14.320 - 00:42:36.240

while you were flying or anything that you recall that happened? >> Yeah. I was in a stearman and I don't recall right now where it was, but when I landed I --

00:42:36.240 - 00:42:43.560

>> Ground looped? >> Ground looped. >> Did you get the wing? >> The tip of one of the wings, yeah.

00:42:43.560 - 00:42:57.040

>> Okay. Did you then have to go before a board? >> Not that I recall. >> Okay. >> And I think that happened out in El Paso, too.

00:42:57.040 - 00:43:13.040

>> Okay. While you were still in training, the girls who had graduated before you, did you know what they were doing? Did they keep you girls informed about --

00:43:13.040 - 00:43:34.440

>> No, except they were faring. >> Okay. Okay. While you were in training, did any of the instructors ever encourage you or discourage you?

00:43:34.440 - 00:43:50.840

>> No, I was never discouraged. >> Okay. When it was time for graduation, what happened at your graduation? >> Well, nothing really.

00:43:50.840 - 00:44:04.440

It just -- >> Did you have a parade? >> I guess we might have. >> Okay. And what did you wear for graduation?

00:44:04.440 - 00:44:19.960

>> Slacks and shirts. >> And shirts. What month did you graduate? >> August, I think.

00:44:19.960 - 00:44:30.080

>> Okay. So you were at Sweetwater when it was hot. >> Oh, yes. >> Tell me about what you did. Did you have air conditioning in your barracks?

00:44:30.080 - 00:44:38.720

>> No. >> What would you do to keep cool? >> You had fans. >> Okay.

00:44:38.720 - 00:44:50.760

>> And leave the windows open. >> Okay. >> And at night, let the cooler air blow through. >> Okay. I was going to ask you, too, how you did laundry.

00:44:50.760 - 00:45:14.640

>> There was a room there that had washing machines and things in it. >> Okay. When you graduated, when did you get your orders? The day you graduated?

00:45:14.640 - 00:45:23.440

>> I'm sure. It must -- yeah, it had to have been. >> Okay. What had -- had you requested they give you your choice of what you would do?

00:45:23.440 - 00:45:36.920

>> I don't recall. >> Okay. What did your orders -- where did your orders send you? >> I went to Love Field, the 5th Ferry Command. >> Okay. Did that make you happy?

00:45:36.920 - 00:45:45.600

>> Oh, gosh, yes. [ Laughter ] >> Did your mom or dad or any of your relatives come out to see you graduate?

00:45:45.600 - 00:46:02.160

>> Mother and daddy, I think, came out. >> Okay. Then did you have some time off to go home before you were -- went to your assignment? Do you recall going to your grandparents?

00:46:02.160 - 00:46:13.080

>> Well, I remember seeing some -- visiting with them. >> Okay. And I can tell there was some pride there. >> Mm-hmm.

00:46:13.080 - 00:46:29.080

>> Okay. When you got to Dallas, to Love Field, to whom did you report? >> To the 5th Ferry Command. >> Okay. Did you report to an Air Force officer or to one

00:46:29.080 - 00:46:40.440

of the girls who was already stationed there or -- >> No, it was all military. >> Okay. And where did you live? >> We lived in the barracks there on the base.

00:46:40.440 - 00:46:52.440

>> Okay. What were those barracks like? >> Two stories, and they were real good. >> Okay. Were there other girls from your class assigned to Love Field also?

00:46:52.440 - 00:47:06.600

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. Do you recall your first assignment at Love Field? >> No, I don't. >> Okay. But what was your job?

00:47:06.600 - 00:47:25.920

What -- why were you sent to Love? >> Well, Dallas was an area where there were different aircraft plants, factories. And we would fly the Stearman's or the Beechcraft's or T6's.

00:47:25.920 - 00:47:43.880

>> And where would you fly them to? >> To the bases that needed them. >> Okay. Do you recall any incidents that happened while you were stationed at Love Field?

00:47:43.880 - 00:47:55.280

Any accidents or anything that were of importance? >> No. We did a lot of ferrying out of Wichita, Kansas. >> Okay. >> But the factor is there.

00:47:55.280 - 00:48:05.440

>> Okay. And tell me what a typical ferrying trip would be like. Would you have your own parachute or -- >> Oh, yeah, yeah, your own parachute.

00:48:05.440 - 00:48:21.360

>> Okay. And you would -- >> You'd have to check the weather reports and go ahead and make your first stop and do some more checking about the weather and --

00:48:21.360 - 00:48:34.960

>> Sorry about that. >> And see where you're going to spend the night. >> Okay. >> On your ferrying trips.

00:48:34.960 - 00:48:43.920

>> Okay. And were these ferrying trips with just WASP or were there male pilots also? >> There were male pilots, too. >> Okay.

00:48:43.920 - 00:49:00.520

>> Yeah. >> Tell me about maybe one interesting trip that you took. >> Oh, from Dallas to California. Or not -- well, no, pick up the Stearman's up in Wichita, Kansas,

00:49:00.520 - 00:49:24.320

and fly, come on down to Dallas and then go west and stop at Abilene and El Paso. And then when you get over into New Mexico and Arizona, you've got the deer, and you can go down and buzz the deer

00:49:24.320 - 00:49:36.320

and they can -- they run. [ Laughter ] That was a lot of fun chasing the deer around the deserts. >> Right.

00:49:36.320 - 00:49:48.520

What would happen, Mary, when you got to your destination and you turned that airplane over to the airbase, what would you do then? >> They would give you the ticket to get back

00:49:48.520 - 00:49:59.240

and you fly commercial back to Dallas. >> Okay. And what if that commercial airplane was full? >> Well, you'd wait until the next one wasn't. >> Okay.

00:49:59.240 - 00:50:09.400

>> You'd be there. >> And then once you got back to Dallas, then might you go out on another trip? >> Oh, yeah.

00:50:09.400 - 00:50:20.520

Oh, yeah. >> Okay. While you were stationed at Dallas, were you given temporary assignment to any other base to train some more or --

00:50:20.520 - 00:50:33.480

>> No. >> No. Were you among the ones who went to Orlando to the officer training school? >> No.

00:50:33.480 - 00:50:45.800

>> I know some did. I didn't know if you did. >> I don't recall. >> Okay. So you were stationed at LaFeel all the time

00:50:45.800 - 00:51:01.320

that you were lost. >> Well, until the time when they were making us go into pursuit flying, and I didn't want to go into pursuit. I wanted to stay with the beach crafts and all.

00:51:01.320 - 00:51:15.480

So then I was sent down to San Marcos to the air base there that trained navigators. >> Okay. And once you got to San Marcos, were there already some WASPs there,

00:51:15.480 - 00:51:25.280

or were you the first one there? >> I was probably the first one there. There wasn't, but I think the two of us there. >> Okay. Tell me about what you did at San Marcos then.

00:51:25.280 - 00:51:40.800

>> Well, fortunately, my grandparents lived in San Marcos, so I was staying with them and going back and forth to the base and, like I say, taking the navigators flying around.

00:51:40.800 - 00:51:51.720

>> Okay. What kind of airplane was this? >> A beach craft. >> Okay. How many students would you have in one, in the airplane?

00:51:51.720 - 00:52:05.640

>> There would be about three. >> Okay. And they would -- tell me what they would do, the students themselves. >> Well, they would have a place to go to when we left,

00:52:05.640 - 00:52:18.360

and then they'd tell me what kind of compass heading I would need to get there, and this type of thing. >> Okay. Did you do these flights strictly

00:52:18.360 - 00:52:32.600

in VFR weather, or did you do them on instruments? >> No, this was all clear. >> Visual. Okay. Then where did you -- you lived

00:52:32.600 - 00:52:42.800

with your grandparents all the time you were there? >> Yes. >> What was your social life like when you were at San Marcos? Did you meet anybody special?

00:52:42.800 - 00:52:56.600

>> No, not really. >> Okay. So while you were there, did other WASPs then come in, or was it just the two of you, pretty much?

00:52:56.600 - 00:53:15.000

>> No, there were several of us there. >> Okay. During the time after you graduated, or even when you were in training, how often did you see Miss Conklin? >> I think maybe once.

00:53:15.000 - 00:53:31.600

>> Okay. At the air base at San Marcos, to whom were you responsible? >> To them. >> Were you in base operations?

00:53:31.600 - 00:53:40.160

Were you in engineering? >> No, this was a navigation school. >> Okay. So probably base operations. >> All right, base operations.

00:53:40.160 - 00:53:52.880

Did you ever, with the other girls, maybe go to the club? Where did you have your meals? >> I don't -- >> Grandma's house?

00:53:52.880 - 00:54:02.040

>> I don't -- [ Laughter ] Oh, heck, I don't remember. >> Right. Okay.

00:54:02.040 - 00:54:20.520

But while you were there, were you aware of what girls were doing at other air bases all over the country? At that time, what did you -- what were your ambitions at that point?

00:54:20.520 - 00:54:31.000

>> Well, it was not too long after I got there that they were going to deactivate us. >> Okay. And how did that make you feel? >> Well, I wasn't very happy about it,

00:54:31.000 - 00:54:44.160

but it was one of those things. >> Okay. When it came time for that deactivation on December 20th, did you stay until it was actually deactivated?

00:54:44.160 - 00:54:55.360

Or did you leave early? >> No, I stayed until it was deactivated. >> Okay. Did the base do anything special for the WASP when they were leaving?

00:54:55.360 - 00:55:16.600

>> Hmm. I don't remember. >> Okay. So when the WASP were deactivated, then what did you do? >> I started -- I went back home, I guess,

00:55:16.600 - 00:55:30.640

with mother and daddy, and went back to work at the theater. >> Okay. Let me go back and ask you, while you were still a WASP, at some point did you get some real uniforms?

00:55:34.880 - 00:55:52.800

That Santiago blue color. >> I've got my WASP uniform, but I'm not sure about when it was done. >> Okay. It was sometime after you graduated, though.

00:55:52.800 - 00:56:00.840

>> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it was a long time after that. >> Right. Were you ever able to go home wearing that uniform?

00:56:00.840 - 00:56:12.520

>> Yeah. >> How'd that make your mom and dad feel? >> Oh, they were real pleased. [ Laughter ]

00:56:12.520 - 00:56:29.040

>> Okay. And then you went back home, and did you take somebody's job in that cashier's little box? [ Laughter ] So you went back and started working at the theater again.

00:56:29.040 - 00:56:40.880

Where did you live? >> I lived with mother and daddy. >> Okay. And then what is the next thing that you did after that?

00:56:40.880 - 00:56:58.800

>> Well, when the WASPs were deactivated, I had met a fellow in Dallas at Love Field. And we were married in November before we were deactivated. >> Oh, I guess I didn't ask you

00:56:58.800 - 00:57:10.800

about your social life in Dallas. [ Laughter ] Tell me what that young man, what qualities he had that made you fall in love with him.

00:57:10.800 - 00:57:23.840

>> Well, he was stationed there at Dallas, and he was an officer, and he wasn't a pilot. But we just got together, and things worked out that way. >> Tell me about your wedding.

00:57:23.840 - 00:57:34.920

>> I was at home with mother and daddy, and we had the wedding at the church. >> Did your mom play for it? >> Oh, yeah.

00:57:34.920 - 00:57:44.520

And -- >> What did you wear, do you recall? >> Oh, I had a wedding gown. >> Okay.

00:57:44.520 - 00:58:02.480

>> And he was stationed at -- in fact, we were both stationed at the air base in Victoria, and lived over there until we got transferred out. >> Okay. Did you go from San Marcos then,

00:58:02.480 - 00:58:13.360

and then you were stationed at Victoria? >> Mm-hmm. >> Were you flying the same beach crafts at Victoria, or something different?

00:58:13.360 - 00:58:31.040

>> It must have been the same. >> Okay. And what was his job at Victoria? >> I forgot. >> Right. Were you able to live together at Victoria?

00:58:31.040 - 00:58:39.840

>> Mm-hmm. >> Okay. And then once the WASP were deactivated, then where was he stationed? Where did you go?

00:58:39.840 - 00:58:52.520

>> Went to Long Beach, California. >> Okay. >> And while we were stationed there, I went to work with American Airlines.

00:58:52.520 - 00:59:05.640

>> Okay. What did you do with American? >> Worked in reservations. >> Okay. >> And then when this war started again, I was --

00:59:05.640 - 00:59:22.880

of course, I was in the reserve, military -- Air Force Reserve. And I was called to active duty up at San Francisco. >> Wow. How did that make him feel? >> Well --

00:59:22.880 - 00:59:32.240

[ Laughter ] >> So you left him in Long Beach? >> Yeah, I left him in Long Beach, and then he finally came up and --

00:59:32.240 - 00:59:56.440

>> Were you at Travis? >> I'm trying to think of the base there that I was stationed in at San Francisco. That makes me mad when I can't get a blank.

00:59:56.440 - 01:00:14.120

>> That's okay. What was your job, Mary? What did you do in the reserves? >> I'm trying to think.

01:00:14.120 - 01:00:26.240

>> Was it March? March Air Force Base? >> No. >> And not Travis?

01:00:26.240 - 01:00:40.640

>> I was -- >> No, that's -- >> I was with -- >> I worked at the airport.

01:00:40.640 - 01:00:58.000

>> Okay. What kind of an air base? Was it a training base or -- >> I feel like it was, but I -- >> Okay. That's okay.

01:00:58.000 - 01:01:21.360

How long were you in the reserves? >> On active duty until -- must have been '51 or '52 that I got out. >> Okay. When you got out, then what did you do?

01:01:21.360 - 01:01:53.080

Was he still -- were you still there with him, stationed there? >> We were sent to -- Syracuse, New York, because that's where he was -- his parents were. And I went to the university there.

01:02:01.040 - 01:02:13.160

>> What did you take at the university? What were you interested in? >> Just basically the major courses that we had to take. >> Right.

01:02:15.680 - 01:02:45.160

>> And I was also over at New York at -- >> Well, I was still working with American Airlines then. I was stationed at LaGuardia and its reservations there. >> Okay. By this time, was your husband out of the service

01:02:45.160 - 01:03:08.600

or did he stay in? >> He stayed in for a little while longer. >> Okay. >> And then I was stationed -- sent to Germany on a tour.

01:03:08.600 - 01:03:28.920

And I met my second husband. And when I came back, I divorced my first one and married the second one. And he's been passed away for about ten years now.

01:03:28.920 - 01:03:47.360

>> What did he do? >> He was military and was first sergeant. And he was stationed out here at Herlbert, too. >> At Eglin?

01:03:47.360 - 01:03:57.960

>> No, Herlbert Field is right down the road here. >> Oh, okay. >> And -- >> So that's how you ended up in Mariesta?

01:03:57.960 - 01:04:11.440

>> Yeah. >> What year did you move? >> This was about 1968 in that area somewhere. >> Okay. Did he finally -- did he retire?

01:04:11.440 - 01:04:22.560

>> Yeah, he retired. >> In those areas. Oh, during all those intervening years, did you go back and forth to see your parents and grandparents?

01:04:22.560 - 01:04:33.400

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Oh, and this watch that I've got on is the one that was issued to me in 1944.

01:04:33.400 - 01:04:44.040

>> Wow. While you were in the watch? >> Yeah. It's a Bull of them. >> It still runs?

01:04:44.040 - 01:04:57.440

>> Yeah. So that's the only thing I wear. I've been wearing it for years. In fact, it hasn't even been sent to be cleaned out or anything for years.

01:04:57.440 - 01:05:14.280

>> Right. >> So. >> While you were in the WASP, tell me what is the one thing that you remember most about being a WASP?

01:05:14.280 - 01:05:38.960

What stands out? >> Well, I think basically the -- is that the women were allowed to fly. >> Oh.

01:05:38.960 - 01:05:58.320

>> And that was something new. >> Right. I think, Mary, in life there are good times and there are bad times and there are happy times and certainly some sad times.

01:05:58.320 - 01:06:14.560

>> Yeah. >> What has gotten you through the sad times? >> Well, people at church have helped. You know.

01:06:14.560 - 01:06:27.080

Interesting that God's going to take care of you. >> And he does. >> And he does. >> Okay.

01:06:27.080 - 01:06:45.320

>> Are you still a Baptist? >> No, I'm a Lutheran. We got married and we're out of Wichita. >> Mary, I'm going to ask you, when your husband was

01:06:45.320 - 01:07:01.640

in service, the second one, did you work all that time that he was in service? >> I taught school most of the time. >> So you went ahead and finished college at Syracuse?

01:07:01.640 - 01:07:22.320

>> No, because I was sent, I guess, overseas maybe then. But I graduated from Wichita Falls, Texas, because I was sent back out to Wichita based there. And when I was finishing my tour there,

01:07:22.320 - 01:07:32.840

I went ahead and finished college. >> Okay. >> And stayed in the reserve and started teaching school. >> Okay. What grades did you teach?

01:07:32.840 - 01:07:38.880

>> Fifth grade. >> Fifth grade. >> Yeah. >> What made that special to you, elementary?

01:07:38.880 - 01:07:50.740

>> Well, I don't know. I had two aunts that were teachers and I guess that was the beginning of me thinking about doing that. So.

01:07:50.740 - 01:08:06.120

>> And what was special about teaching children? >> I don't know. [ Laughter ] >> Did you, did those children ever know that you had flown?

01:08:06.120 - 01:08:11.320

>> Oh, yeah. >> That you were a wasp? >> Yeah. >> And what was their reaction?

01:08:11.320 - 01:08:23.520

>> Oh, they thought that was really something. And every now and then, of course, I did most of my teaching out here. And every now and then somebody will run up to me and say, "Oh, hello. How are you doing?

01:08:23.520 - 01:08:32.160

Don't you remember me?" And they'll tell you your name and, "Oh, yeah, you know, whether I did or not." [ Laughter ]

01:08:32.160 - 01:08:47.160

>> Have any of those children gone on to be, to do some outstanding things that you know of? >> No, not that I know of. >> Okay. What was your favorite subject to teach?

01:08:47.160 - 01:09:01.800

>> Geography. >> Great. So you ended up teaching here at Mariester? >> Yeah, Mariester. >> Okay. Then when did you stop teaching?

01:09:01.800 - 01:09:19.080

>> In, when I got 65. >> Oh, that was yesterday? [ Laughter ] >> And now how do you --

01:09:19.080 - 01:09:29.360

>> Fifty, sixteen years. >> Yeah. And now how do you spend your time? >> Working crossword puzzles and exercising and playing tennis. And I haven't been playing tennis lately,

01:09:29.360 - 01:09:43.520

but after I had my wreck I broke my hip and I just haven't gone back to that. But I keep busy. >> And that wreck was maybe from a little speeding?

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>> No. >> No? >> Up here, when you turn off, get off on the highway, I had stopped and looked to see if there was anybody coming.

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And I didn't see his damn soul. I pulled out and I got clobbered. >> Oh, wow. >> And the only, I just, I don't know.

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Because I can say I didn't see him. So anyway. >> So who took care of you while you were? >> I was in the hospital for a while and then my sister was

01:10:18.280 - 01:10:31.320

out here for a little while to keep check on me. >> Okay. >> And I healed up pretty fast, I guess. >> Okay. Of your siblings, how many are still?

01:10:31.320 - 01:10:45.080

>> I have two sisters living. Oh, no, listen to me. My brother died and my younger sister died, so there's my other sister.

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>> Okay. Where does she live now? >> Harlington, Texas. Down on the border. >> Okay. Do you have nieces and nephews that?

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>> I have a niece that's with her family in Albania. He's a missionary. >> Baptist? >> Mm-hmm.

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And, hmm. And I've got a, hmm. Anna Louise Alford. Oh, then the other sister that's down in Harlington.

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I guess that. >> That's the family, huh? >> That's about, yeah. >> Right. Are you involved with your church now?

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>> Here, yeah. >> Okay. So, that you have close friends. >> Well, yeah.

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>> Right. Do you teach anything at church or how are you involved? >> No, I've, years ago I did teach Sunday school. >> Okay. >> But.

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>> Did you get any of your mother's musical ability? >> No. >> No. So, you're not leading the choir. >> Well, I would with the choir, but they practice at night

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and this and that and I just don't fit. I can't be out on the highway at night driving. So. >> Right.

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>> That takes care of that. >> Right. Will you go back to playing tennis when you exercise a little bit more on that machine?

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>> I might. >> Okay. >> Just see. >> Okay. Let me ask you.

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Of all the things that you have ever done in your life, what is the one thing that you're most proud of? >> My flying. >> Okay. Good answer.

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>> Let's see. >> And then I would like to ask you, what is your personal opinion of Jacqueline Cochran? >> She was real good.

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Real nice. >> As far as the WASP are concerned, what do you think, do you think there would have ever been a WASP without her leadership?

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>> I doubt very seriously. >> Okay. >> I don't think. >> Okay. What do you feel the legacy of the WASP will be?

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>> Just history. >> History. Okay. Let me ask you this. As we are planning to help the people

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of Sweetwater build a WASP museum, what are your thoughts about that? >> I think it's fine. >> Okay.

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>> No, I think it's a good deal. >> And in that museum, what would you like to, what would you like that museum to say about the WASP? >> Well, we were the first ones.

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And if it hadn't been for us, there probably wouldn't be women flying today with the Army and the Air Force and everything. >> Okay.

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If you could speak to children 50 years from now and say something to them that might be encouraging or to motivate or inspire them, what would you say to them? >> I don't know.

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>> If this is something that you think you'd like to do, do it. >> What do you think inspired you to do it? >> Seeing that airplane when I was in first grade. Just flying, that's the only thing.

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>> Television. >> Did you ever see a snake in Sweetwater? >> Yeah. >> See a snake?

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>> Yeah, rattlesnake. You know that's the rattlesnake capital of the world. >> I'm trying to -- it seemed to me like I've got -- I would like to see or something.

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I thought, well, I'll start reading. It took me about three hours to read all this stuff. >> What stands out that you read? >> Well, when you're talking about that snake,

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it seems like I recall reading in here where there had been a rattlesnake that got in our barracks, in our room, and we had to get rid of him. >> Okay.

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>> But you don't recall? >> I remember when you said that -- >> Almost rang a bell. >> Yeah, it sort of rang a bell.

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>> Right. Mary, listen, this is your life, so is there anything that I've left out that you would like to talk about or add to? >> No, I don't think.

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>> You'll think of it once we're gone. >> No, I don't. >> Why are you so kind to animals? >> Nancy wants to know why you are so kind to animals.

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>> I like them, I guess. [ Laughter ] >> They evidently like you. >> Okay, fine.

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>> No, I got to find her on camera. >> And coming in, and I'll throw them out there in the grass, and they'll come down and get them. >> Yeah.

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>> So. >> Okay. Well, if there's nothing else that you can think of that you'd like to tell us, I would like to tell you thank you. >> Oh, you're welcome.

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Thank you. >> Children 50 years from now are going to be watching you and listening to what you said. [ Laughter ]

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>> Can I ask you just about flying? The first thing that comes into your mind when you think -- can you explain how it feels to fly? What that feeling is like?

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What makes you so happy about flying? >> Well, you're up away from the earth, and there's so many things that you can see, and things that you can do. Like I say, like chase my deer across the stuff.

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But it just gives you a feeling of you're in charge, and whatever happens, it's up to you. I think basically. >> You're in charge.

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>> There's something about the wasp that you seem to like to be in charge. That's a -- >> Oh.

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>> That's a good thing. >> I think we found that with every wasp. Mary, you've been great. >> Well, you all have, too.

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Gee. >> I just appreciate being able to come into your home and just to visit with you, really. >> I'm glad you were able to do it.

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I'm glad I was here. >> Oh, so are we. When you start looking --