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Something in your life that will motivate and inspire kids. And that's the purpose of this whole thing. These interviews are going to be used in the museum because Nancy wants that museum for the WASP.

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I was going to put this on you, but I'm going to need to run it through your buttons. Oh. Through a couple of buttons. Does that remind you of your Army physical?

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I don't remember that. That was too long ago. Some things I remember, but that I don't. Right.

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So you won't be able to get up and call her? How about if the phone rings? If the phone rings, I can grab it and say, "Mary's wired right now.

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Can you take a message?" Or I can just hold it and unhook the phone. No, I have an answering service that can come on. But Nancy wants this museum for the walls to talk.

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And she wants it to be wasp. Let me ask you said you said you Okay, I'm Deanie Parrish with wings across America today. We're interviewing Mary Burchard She was a wasp. I want to stop right there you pronounce Mary was a wasp class 44 6 we are in her home in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

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Today is the 5th of May All day. The videographer is Nancy Parrish. Okay, Mary, if you'll give us your full name. Mary Sophia Reinerberg McDar Burchard. Okay, and when and where were you born, Mary? I was born the 29th of February. I only get a birthday every four years. In the year 1916 in York, Pennsylvania.

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Virginia. Mary, tell me about your mother. What was she like? My mother was a typical German housewife.

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A lady who was, I won't say frugal, but she was very saving. A hardworking woman. I can see her yet, lugging up baskets of wet laundry from the basement, out in the cold yard, hanging it on the wash line, sheets frozen just like pillars out there.

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She was a wonderful lady. Kelly: And your dad? My dad was a businessman, all business. His father founded, and it still exists,

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a shoe business in York, Pennsylvania. It's in its, I think, 126th year now, and in the fourth generation. They were the first retail shoe store

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that Florsheim introduced their shoes. - Wow. - He was a financier. Instead of him going to an office of stockbrokers, they'd come to him.

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And I do have pictures of him being interviewed by, was it Pierce, Fenner, Smith & Bean that used to be a stock outfit? Well they would come out to Daddy. Mr. Jake, what do you think about such and such?

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He was great. Wow. When you were born, where did you live? Did you live in the city?

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Oh, yes. At that time, I think the population was like 48,000. Today it might be triple that. It's an industrial city.

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And did you have siblings? I had a younger brother, and 11 years after me, I had a sister. What was your house like? It was a single home at that time on a very beautiful street, three-story brick with the

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old-time living room, sitting room, dining room, kitchen, pantry on the ground floor, and four bedrooms and bath upstairs. There was a bath on the first floor, too, and a basement where we used to roller skate couldn't be outdoors, and a third floor where we'd like to go and pick around in old boxes

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and cedar chests and things of that sort. Right. And tell me about your grandparents. Where did they live?

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I only remember my grandmother, who was my dad's mother, and she was a little tiny lady. Oh, she was so tiny. They lived in York, she lived in York, and she would make her home with her different sons or her one daughter periodically.

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Grandma kind of rotated around. My grandfather on my mother's side didn't live too far from us, and a maiden aunt kept house for him. He was another hard-working soul.

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My grandmother, I don't recall doing any working, but she would help, like to help. I think she was more of a hindrance than a help as I remember. What did you learn from your grandmother? I would say be a good girl.

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Don't do that. I had cousins that smoked and I would go visit them and my grandmother might be there at the time and she would say, "Don't you do that." And I didn't.

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I did it after she got away. Oh. When you were growing up, Mary, what was Christmas like in your home? Oh, my.

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My brother and I, and of course my sister didn't come along until eleven years later, But my brother and I would be sent to bed. And the house would be devoid of anything that was Christmas. But when we came down Christmas morning, the dining room, which was an enormous room, would

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be Christmas from one end to the other. My mother and dad would have put up platforms. The platforms were around them, had green cloth. only one Christmas tree but maybe three and there would be trains and tunnels

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and mountains and villages and lights and oh my they must have worked like fiends from the time we went to bed till we came down Christmas morning. And then what would Christmas dinner be like? That was always a big meal turkey and all the fixings and my mother did it all. When I got old enough to help, I got a job too, which

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I enjoyed. Right. During the Christmas season, do you recall special events that you went to, say at church, pageants or? We always had midnight mass. My father played the flute on the choir and it would be nice

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to hear him solo up there. I don't remember too much of it other than I think I'd fall asleep halfway through midnight, time for me to have been in bed, but I wasn't. Lynn Roberson Were either you or your brother ever involved in the services at church?

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Lynn Roberson My brother was an acolyte. Do you recall starting to school? Laney: Yes, I do. I remember first grade and a girl by the name of Mary Catherine Crumling. She must have been twice my size and she kept pushing me out. We would have to stand in

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a line and I don't think we were alphabetically in line, but if I were where she wanted to be, boy that girl would give me a shout. And you know, to this day I just kind of resented that girl. I think she's still living. I'll know because in June, this coming June, I'm going up to Pennsylvania for the 75th anniversary of the founding of my high school.

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And I think she's still living. I'll remind her of that if she's there. But I think there's only about five of us left in that era. When you started elementary school, was it a Catholic school?

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Oh yes. Catholic school from first to eighth and then four years of Catholic high school. And in school did you wear uniforms? No, not then.

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Was it a co-ed school? Oh yes. How did you get to school? Were you?

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Shanks Mare. On my feet. You never heard that, did you? We walked to school.

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It was about six blocks one way. We went down early in the morning, we went home for lunch, you came back again for class, and you went home again when school was out. Do you recall any of the games you played when you were growing up?

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Jacks. In fact, I still have my own jacks out here. Spin the top, and I could spin tops today. I think I still have a couple of those out here.

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The girls played, what do you call it, jump rope and hopscotch. I colored up more sidewalks with chalk playing hopscotch. When you were in elementary school, do you recall any teacher that might have made an an impression on you?

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Lowry: Not specifically, no. Klemski: When you were growing up, how would you spend your vacations? Lowry: We had a summer home, and it was on the junction of two creeks, a Bermudian and a little Conawalga, and they formed right in front of our cottage, which sat way up

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high to form what they called the Big Kanawhaga. And we would have our summers up there. Kelly: Would your dad be able to come up part of the time? Lane: He would go back and forth. It was not too far from the city, I would say twenty miles. And we had a phone.

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Kelly: What was your favorite thing to do? Swim. Before-- I think back now, and I think God must have been on my shoulder or my angel.

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I would be down there and swim across that creek early in the morning. And it would have to be-- well, you could hardly tell who was on the other side.

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And I would swim across there in the morning and stop and rest, and then come back again, and come up. my mother would say, "You're all wet." Yes, I swam across the Kanawhauga. You did? Never got reprimanded for it. My folks never swam, but we kids all did. We were like fish.

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Do you recall how you learned to swim? Yes. Every summer, my dad and his two brothers who had the store would take the clerks to our summer home for an outing or it would be like on a Sunday. And one time they had a canoe and I insisted upon going along with these adults in this canoe. Well, don't

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you know the canoe upset. At that time I wasn't a swimmer, but I learned then. I really did. That's when I started to swim. describe this summer home? Laney: Well, it was on a rise, like two terraces up.

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And it was stone from around the area there. It was two-story. The first floor had like a, what we called a summer kitchen, where you did your cooking without heating any of the other part, and a dining room and a kitchen, and of all things,

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it had a bathroom with fixtures. We did not have a chick's sail, no outhouse. We did have a pump, which we loved because we liked to pump water better than water that came out of the tap. The second floor was a large living room/bedroom combination and two other bedrooms off of that. And it was a three-side balcony that was screened in. And we kids

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usually would sleep on porch swings out there at night. Was it near a town? Nope, it was out very rural. Okay.

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When you finished elementary school, then did you have to change schools? Nope. The pastor of our parish had a four-year high school program right in the same building. So I had the four years of my high school right where I had my eight years of elementary.

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When you started into high school, what were your goals? What did you think you would be? Lowry: Well, back in—and I have a book over there that I just got that refreshed my memory. Back about, oh, I guess I was in eighth grade, I read an article in the newspaper about a

00:14:47.580 - 00:15:14.920

Ruth Elder of England who was a pilot. So while I was still in eighth grade, might have even been seventh grade, the upper class in the high school had apparently misbehaved and they brought me into this room to show them how you behaved. This girl, now you listen to her. So I stood up there and I said, "You tell them what you're going to be when you

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grow up. And I can remember going like this, "I'm gonna be an aviatrix." And I just got this book as a gift and I found Ruth Elder's account in there. Now that's a long time ago. I think that goes back to 1929. Somebody picked this up in a used bookshop and gave it to my daughter and said, "I want your mother to have this book." And I just now, I just

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had it about a week ago. Linda: Wow. When you were in high school, what was your favorite subject? Rose: I do not know that I had any particular favorite. Hopefully, I was making a grade in all of them, and I guess I did. I passed. I did not have a favorite subject. I had a

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least favorite, and that was math. What kind of student were you? I would say I was in the upper one-third of the class. In high school, what was your social life like?

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Well, we would have occasional, as they called them then, "sock hops." I did not go to those too much. I couldn't dance then. And we would have basketball games that we'd follow with maybe a fun time in the gym. And when I say basketball games, they were intramural with other schools in the county, not necessarily in the city. And after that we'd have fun

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time. What extracurricular activities did you participate in? For example, drama or speech or sports or? Music.

00:17:15.600 - 00:17:31.760

I was in the school orchestra. I was the pianist. And I would even, at that time our church had what they called an Irish Dramatic Society. And they would travel through the county, put on these wonderful shows, like George

00:17:31.780 - 00:17:45.980

M. Cohan shows and so on. And I was always a pianist, even as a high school kid. And these were grown men and ladies. My parents gave their permission for me to go along and play the piano for these organizations,

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for these presentations. When did you begin taking lessons? Age six. Were you just a—was it a God-given talent?

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I played by ear before I started music and I had, I think, eight years of classics and two years of syncopation. From a man who could play the piano, it just rattled and, "Oh, I used to look at him. If I could only play like him someday." But I can't yet. Did you ever enter competition?

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No, they didn't have any that I know of. Did you have a high school prom? Yes, vaguely remember it. I remember the dress, and I don't even know who I went with. Describe the dress.

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It was a yellow floor length, sort of a crepe, and it also had a jacket to it. That's as much as I remember of it. God knows where it is. When you were in high school, did you ever help out in the store? Oh yes, every Saturday. I would go down to the store with my dad. Maybe it would be to

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put away shoes. In those days, our store had, like from ceiling to floor, racks or shelves. this is maybe you aren't aware of it, but we used to have ladders that traveled along and you climbed up these ladders to get out specific shoes and sizes and so on. And it would be my job and I had a cousin who did the same to

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make sure those shoes got back in the right box and put them back into the right niche up in the wall where they came from. And I remember Friday night, I And Friday night my dad would pass out the paychecks to the clerks. And I'd always want to know where mine was.

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And I would get an envelope, it would have a dollar in it. One time I asked my dad, "When would I get a raise?" He says, "Young lady, the next raise you would get would be out the front door." [Laughter]

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As children, did you get an allowance? No. No. we needed something or wanted something, if it was good for us, and we got it. If it wasn't

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good for us, we didn't get it. Right. Before you graduated from high school, did you already have plans for what you would do when you graduated? Well, we always said we cut our teeth on a shoehorn because the business, I leaned to

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podiatry as it's called today at that time was called chiropody. So in those days you didn't have FCAT or whatever they call it to go on to a college to assure that you were going to be accepted. You went down to the school, you had your father's check, blank check, and you enrolled.

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And I was going in for medicine to be a doctor. And when they told me, at that time I was 18, they told me it would be X number of years and X number of years. And I'm sitting there thinking, "By that time I'm going to have one leg in the grave.

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I'm not going to be able to practice." And they told me that the podiatry, or at that time it was called chiropody, the chiropody school was three years with a degree and a post-grad year for your surgical degree. That was only four as compared to what would have been eight.

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I signed up for the Carapati school and I was one of four girls in a class of about 40 men. What was the name of that school? Temple University in Philadelphia. Did you know some females who were already doing that? No.

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No. And was that a usual thing for girls to do? I had three girls in my class. One considerably older, from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Sylvia Tobe, a short and I must say fat lady,

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and much older. two other girls and I think they finished, I'm not sure anymore, I don't remember. Kidney-Dorsey During the summer before you went to Temple, how did you spend that summer after graduation?

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Litz: Same as every other summer, up at our home, up at our cottage. We called it a cottage, it was really a big house. Kidney-Dorsey Where did you live when you went to Temple? We were permitted to live in rooming houses, and I was just about a block from there.

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So I already had a cousin there in dental school. The dental, the pharmacy, and the chiropractic school were all in the same area. And my dental cousin told my dad that he knew where I could go. And we went down there and I got a room on the third floor of a rooming house.

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Had to take my meals elsewhere. there. It was just bed there. Nice room. Walk up three floors. It was close enough for you to walk? One block away.

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Did you enjoy that school? Oh yes, yes indeed. During the time you were going to Temple, then, what did you do for fun? We had students all around there. Dental students, med students who were going to Hahnemann Medical

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College. And you kind of met these different people either in restaurants or we had a restaurant right near school. You got to talking to these people and pretty soon you were dating them and you went to their functions or they came to whatever function we were having. Did you join a sorority?

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Yes, and I was the first woman to ever win the clinician's prize for proficiency in the clinic. First time, and it was, I forget the name of the sorority. I think it's quite defunct these days.

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Did you meet friends, make friends there that have remained friends? No. I think the one girl that I knew has died, I saw her maybe in 1940, '42, along there, I think. And they've all died.

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While you were going to school, did you have summers off? Oh, yes. Did you meet anybody special? Yep.

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Okay. I met a gentleman who has since died from Hahnemann Med School, and I was pinned. I had an aunt who lived, he was from Scranton, and I had an aunt that was a nurse and lived up there.

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And she told me, "You don't want to get into that family. You don't want to get into that family." And I took her advice and sent the pin back to him. And then along about that time, war broke out and I closed my office.

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However, my dad had two brothers. Those two brothers had sons in the service. My dad only had one son who wasn't at that time eligible for service. And I thought, I used to see these movements go through the city. By that I mean, you'd see trucks with soldiers on. They were headed either to Gettysburg or Baltimore or someplace.

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And I'd look down there and I'd think, "Oh, my brother's name was Jacob also. I think, 'Jake, he can't go in there.'" And that's when I got the idea, "I'm going in the service. I'm going to represent our family."

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Ultimately, my brother did go in, but he got a medical discharge. But that's—I'm getting ahead of myself there. But that's what gave me an impetus to go into the service there. What year were you in when Pearl Harbor happened?

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Had you finished by that time? Finished what? Finished college. Oh, yes, yes.

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I was practicing six years before I went into the WASP. In that interval, I again dated a gentleman who was a test pilot for Glenn L. Martin on the B-26 and he used to come up from Baltimore and zoom over our house and and he would he lived there he lived in the area and I dated him and he taught

00:27:38.260 - 00:28:00.520

me to fly along with the gentleman who owned the airport and I've got it on my my day sheet or whatever that inquiry is. He was instrumental in me even going in for the CPTP, I think they called it,

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Civilian Pilot Training Program, was given in our local YMCA, in which one woman out of 10 recipients, One woman could be a recipient out of 10,

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and I have won that. I think I was agitant. I was something in it, don't remember. That's a long time ago, cheaper.

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Let me back up and ask you, how many years you went to that pedagogy school? Four. Four years?

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Yeah. Okay. When you finished that school, did you have a graduation? Yes, 5,000 of us, the entire university, had graduation exercises together.

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Do you recall your parents coming to that? Oh yes, they were there. Then what did you do after you graduated? What was your first thing you did? I opened my office in York.

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By yourself? with the backing of my father as far as equipment and so on. You opened it in New York City? York, Pennsylvania. York.

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Okay. York, by the way, was once the capital of the United States. Really? Yes.

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Did you have help in that office? No, I worked alone. Tell me what it's like to work on people's feet. What was it like? Well, you got presented with everything and anything.

00:29:49.370 - 00:30:02.340

They never came to you unless they had a foot problem. And some of them, most of them, were correctable with proper shoes, but I did not refer them to my parents' store. I would give them prescriptions.

00:30:02.520 - 00:30:20.560

It didn't matter where they went to purchase it. I wasn't directing, like I say, sales to my family. - Were you qualified to operate on their feet? - I had a doctor of surgical degree.

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And during the time you had this practice, when is the first time that you saw an airplane or what gave you the idea that you thought you wanted to learn to fly? Well, I told you I was dating this gentleman who was a test pilot for Glenn L. Martin, and I would go out to the airport with him on Saturdays and Sundays.

00:30:48.670 - 00:31:13.220

I didn't have Saturday hours. And I'd fly with him, and eventually I guess he, as well as the owner of this airport, gave me flight instructions, and I soloed in the appropriate time. And then I got the idea I wanted a plane of my own.

00:31:14.740 - 00:31:41.520

I and another fellow—he's dead—bought a Taylorcraft. And the fellow that I was dating, he and I went out on a bus to some place in Ohio, I can't remember anywhere, and I bought this Taylorcraft and we flew it back. What was the first airplane you flew?

00:31:42.650 - 00:31:53.580

Taylor Craft. Do you recall your instructor? Yes. Were there other girls also learning to fly?

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We had two or three more who joined the Civil Air Patrol. Do you know who sponsored the Civil Air Patrol? Was it a—no, CPT program. Was it the university? No, I don't know. Okay. So eventually you joined the Civil Air Patrol.

00:32:13.460 - 00:32:37.460

Yeah. What was the purpose of the Civil Air Patrol? Well, we were within—this was wartime, and we were within the zone where flying was prohibited within X number of miles of the coast. And we would take non-flying personnel of different construction or what should I say,

00:32:38.760 - 00:33:05.640

manufacturing places there in the York area. We would take non-flying personnel to perhaps a meeting in Allentown, Pennsylvania or Philadelphia or Baltimore and be a sort of a, what, a door-to-door taxi driver. LW: During the time that you were learning to fly and even after you were flying, did

00:33:05.860 - 00:33:23.760

anything unusual happen to you? Were you ever afraid? LW: On one time I was driving, or driving, I was flying a gentleman to Allentown, Pennsylvania early in the morning, right into the sun, and oh brother, I couldn't find the airport.

00:33:24.680 - 00:33:45.000

It was nothing but haze. And I went around and around, and I know he was getting itchy and I was antsy. I sat down on a golf course. And I don't think that manufacturing house ever asked for any aerial transportation for

00:33:45.080 - 00:33:52.600

their meetings. I don't know. But you were able to take it off and take it off? Oh yes, oh yes.

00:33:54.260 - 00:34:07.740

As you kept flying, when did you first hear about the training program? About the WASP? Uh-huh. There was a girl by the name of Chris Swan, whom I've lost contact with.

00:34:08.800 - 00:34:29.540

Only see her when we have reunions or something, and then that's not always. Chris came down from someplace and took flight training lessons there at that airport. And I guess that's when I heard about it. And she was in, I think, 44th—was Chris—were you 44-3?

00:34:29.730 - 00:34:38.400

No, 4. 4. Chris Swan, her name was now Lent, Chris Lent. Well, that's where I heard about it.

00:34:39.760 - 00:34:56.880

So I had an aunt living in Washington and called her and said, "I want to come down and get an interview over in the Pentagon with whomever we interviewed with." And that was it. Let me ask you, how your mom and dad, how they reacted when you—

00:34:56.900 - 00:35:06.800

My mother was one of my first passengers. She was thrilled to death. If I'd bank, instead of her looking down, she practically would push me outside of the seat.

00:35:08.760 - 00:35:27.920

She loved it. My dad never wanted to go up with me. When you went down to Washington, do you recall with whom you had the interview? I have no idea. I have no idea. And what was your expectations? What did you think this training program was all about?

00:35:30.420 - 00:35:45.840

An extension of what I was doing. An extension of the training I was getting, except better. Then what was the next step you took? Did you have a physical? Yep. Where did you go for that?

00:35:46.420 - 00:36:04.500

A local doctor. I don't recall who. Wasn't one in the service? No, not that I'm aware of. But I think he was, what should I say, authorized to give physicals for service personnel.

00:36:08.080 - 00:36:29.080

And then did you have to take a written test? Not that I recall. Did we or did we? I don't recall. When you went back home, how long was it before you were notified to report for training? I wouldn't have any idea. Have no idea.

00:36:29.320 - 00:36:54.660

Let me ask you, why would a young lady who has a successful medical practice give that up to go and learn to fly for her country? Because like I say, at the time my two uncles had sons in the service, my dad had no one, and I was going to represent our family in the service.

00:36:56.180 - 00:37:12.180

My brother, as I said, was taken, was accepted. He was in the Tank Corps, but eventually was discharged on a medical discharge. He had a heart problem, but why they took him in the first place, I don't know. Kelly: Any regrets?

00:37:12.660 - 00:37:30.120

Lane: Oh, never. Never. Kelly: Do you recall how you were notified to report for training? Lane: No, sure don't. How did you get from Philadelphia, wherever you were at, to Sweetwater?

00:37:31.200 - 00:37:53.040

York, by train. I had belonged to a bridge club for a number of years and those gals and my family and my cousins and all came down to the train station. And by then I had learned to smoke. And I remember the bridge gals gave me a carton of Pell Mills. And oh, My dad didn't like that at all.

00:37:56.140 - 00:38:13.440

They saw me off and I had to change in Chicago, and that's where I met Anita Paul. Anita and I shared an upper berth from there to St. Louis. We shared an upper berth from St. Louis into Sweetwater. Lynn: Wow.

00:38:14.840 - 00:38:26.600

Mary, when you got to Sweetwater, had you ever been to Texas? No. Lynn Roberson When you got to Sweetwater and got off of that train, tell me what your impression was.

00:38:26.600 - 00:38:54.920

Rose It was snowing and snowing and snowing. The worst snow they said they had, I think, since 1889 or something. And I can still see a gal by the name of Norris, forget her first name, walking ahead of me in these high-heeled shoes with ankle straps in this snow and a—I'll call him a bellhop,

00:38:54.960 - 00:39:19.220

but he wasn't an air skycap—but an Indian gentleman carrying our luggage. And I kept looking at this gal with these high-heeled, open heel but ankle-strapped shoes on and thinking, "How are you walking in this weather, in this snow?" And it was deep. And cold. Oh, it was colder than Billy Bejee's.

00:39:22.230 - 00:39:38.660

And then where did you go? To the Hotel Sweetwater, I guess. I don't remember much of that. But I know getting in a cattle car, going from there into the field of Endure. Do you remember what that cattle car looked like?

00:39:38.760 - 00:39:53.700

Oh yes, I've got pictures. Describe that car. It was like a wooden bus and I would say maybe it held twenty people. I don't remember. Kind of rickety.

00:39:56.060 - 00:40:13.960

I don't remember that much of it, but Anita and I went along and showed it. Norris's first name. Anyhow, she was in our 44W6 squadron. What day did you report? I have no idea.

00:40:15.040 - 00:40:20.760

Okay, I think Nancy has to change the tape. We're out of film. Next. Coffee?

00:40:21.240 - 00:40:24.360

No, thanks. Coffee? Would you like some? No.

00:40:25.520 - 00:40:36.880

How about going out to Avenger? Go ahead. Okay. Give me your first impressions when you saw Avenger Field.

00:40:40.220 - 00:40:55.020

This is it. You're going to do or die here. You better do. Kidney: Everything was covered with snow, right? Lee: Oh, indeed it was. Kidney: What day did you arrive?

00:40:55.170 - 00:41:14.060

Lee: I have no idea. I don't recall. Now, Anita would know that. Didn't Anita tell you when we arrived? Kidney: Like January the 2nd or something, right? somewhere along there. Levy: I'll look it up and see. January 8th.

00:41:14.060 - 00:41:33.240

Steele: January 8th. Levy: When you got out to Avenger Field, then what happened? Steele: Well, I reckon we were assigned perhaps to a bay. What is a bay?

00:41:34.260 - 00:42:21.320

A bay is one of about six or eight our residents, all in one row. Right at the moment, I can't remember. I was Flight 2, so we were on the extreme west end of the bays or housing. I remember getting a window, and at the time an upperclassman came in and showed you how

00:42:21.320 - 00:42:32.800

to make a bed. And Lorraine Nelson showed me how to make my bed and get a quarter to bounce off of it. What did your bed look like?

00:42:33.800 - 00:42:41.700

Right then it was stripped. You had to make it up. But was it a wooden bed? What kind of bed did you have?

00:42:41.760 - 00:42:46.220

I think it was metal. I think. Caught? I could caught.

00:42:47.180 - 00:42:58.100

You could not be too broad. It was narrow, which I fit on. I only weighed 108 pounds at that time. Kelly: In this bay, how many trainees?

00:42:58.100 - 00:43:12.540

Litz: Six of us. Kelly: Tell me about your bay mates. Litz: Well, there was Mary Reddick, Mary Reddick-Wells. She and I became real good buddies all these years.

00:43:13.700 - 00:43:28.740

I've been to her place; she's been to mine. And then there was Lucille Quamby. Lucille was an older woman. She washed out, but she stayed on as an EO, an establishment officer.

00:43:31.080 - 00:44:00.640

And a gal by the name of Purinton, who has since died. And then a girl who was a cosmetician on a cruise line, and what was her name? But anyhow, she washed out. But she has since lived over on the island off of California.

00:44:02.140 - 00:44:20.480

And my kids went over there one time in a boat and looked her up and met her. What in the Dickens was her name? Anyhow, we were a great bunch. We were great and fortunately, we kept in touch with a lot of them.

00:44:21.250 - 00:44:47.320

Kelly: Mary, what was the biggest adjustment you had to make to train? I do not think there was that much of a difference. I am not a creature of habit, so to speak, but I did not mind rolling out at an early hour.

00:44:50.540 - 00:45:09.600

I had to be sure that everything was in apple-shaped order, apple pie order, ship shape, and that was no different than what I was at home. But as far as living with five other girls in those cramped quarters. It was great.

00:45:11.640 - 00:45:29.620

Tell me about the mess hall. Well, I never learned to eat okra to this day. Okra. Ice cream with gravy on it?

00:45:30.680 - 00:45:38.740

That didn't send me. I guess we survived. Do you like okra? Love it.

00:45:38.880 - 00:45:44.460

Ooh. Is it still so slimy? Uh-huh. How do you get gravy on ice cream?

00:45:44.940 - 00:46:08.280

It would run over. The gravy would get over into your ice cream, if you had ice cream. What was the makeup of the supervisory personnel at that training base? And Hallie Stiers was our—what was the title for them?

00:46:10.030 - 00:46:21.960

I forget. Hallie Stiers and Deaton, Deaton Leone—is that her name? Leone Deaton? They were lovely ladies, very lovely.

00:46:22.640 - 00:46:47.640

When Lucille Quamby washed out, she stayed on as an EO and was another very nice lady who visited me here in Florida when we had a big home down on another street. And I think she would spend her winters somewhere in Arizona and died there. Kept in touch with a lot of these gals.

00:46:48.720 - 00:47:07.880

How did it make you feel when one of your bay mates washed out? Dear Lord, please don't let it be me next. Tell me about the ground school classes. I guess they were rough.

00:47:08.700 - 00:47:36.400

You really had to bone up if you wanted to stay there. I guess I must have passed them. Tell me some of the rules, how you could be washed out, for example. Well, your poor judgment in flying, anything that you did that could have been the end

00:47:36.480 - 00:47:57.080

of you. I had Nick Hill as a primary instructor. And boy, in order to drill something into me, he would take that stick and he would go from right to left, that my knees would be black and blue, that I could sleep with

00:47:57.160 - 00:48:26.720

my knees against, next to each other. They would be so black and blue. And he was trying to impress me on, I don't know what it was anymore, but he'd take that stick and he'd do that on all my knees. And there was a gentleman that I kept in contact for many years. He And he was always going to, he wanted me to know where he was buried.

00:48:27.060 - 00:48:46.380

And he supposedly told his son to tell me, but I never heard. And he's been dead a long time. Wow. Do you know how your training was compared to the training the cadets who were learning to fly? The difference in those trainings?

00:48:46.380 - 00:49:06.720

I have no idea what the cadets went through. How would you know? I would assume it was pretty much the same. If you're going to fly, you have to fly the Army way, so you were doing it that way. Kelly: While you were in training, did you have an opportunity to go into Sweetwater

00:49:06.820 - 00:49:22.720

and meet some of the citizens of Sweetwater? Litz: I think I went in there once. Didn't we have a club in there or something? I think I went in there once and I wasn't into drinking and kind of left me cold and I don't think I ever went off base that much.

00:49:25.500 - 00:49:46.640

Lynn: What was the first airplane you flew at Avenger? Lynn: The PT-17, the Stearman. Lynn: How was that different than the airplanes you had been flying? We had a Stearman Hammond at the York Airport, and I remember flying that.

00:49:47.440 - 00:50:00.760

But it was not at all like the 17. I enjoyed it. I liked the whooping cockpit. I liked that.

00:50:01.620 - 00:50:26.380

What was your flying gear like? It was wintertime and those fleece-lined boots and the gear, you walked along like you messed your britches because you could not get your knees together. And then trying to get up into the ship, that was awful.

00:50:28.480 - 00:50:50.760

Did anything unusual happen to you when you were flying in primary training? Laney: I had my birthday in February and that was still primary time. What happened? Nothing to do with flying.

00:50:51.220 - 00:51:13.240

But BJ Williams got a huge paddle and she paddled the living Jesus out of me that I couldn't stand my parachute against my butt for days. You know, I'll never forget that. She made me go up and down this line with this, I'll call it a paddle, I don't know

00:51:13.240 - 00:51:32.840

what, a stick or some sort, but she beat me like the Dickens that I couldn't stand that shoot. Oh, and I think of that often. Every time I have a birthday, I think, "Thank God nobody does that anymore." Of course, I only get a birthday every four years. Kelly: But it was a friendly, supposedly friendly—

00:51:32.840 - 00:52:00.100

Lowry: Oh, well, you know, she was kind of rough. Kelly: Do you recall your solo in a Stearman? Was that a happy day for you? Must have been. I flew and passed. In the ground school courses, was there any course that really gave you problems?

00:52:02.440 - 00:52:25.740

Not that I can think of offhand. Did you enjoy Morse Code? Yep. I had Morse code when I was in CPT at York, in York. They gave us Morse code there and we had some World War I men there that helped with the drilling and

00:52:25.880 - 00:52:48.360

so on. And this one very old man who would drill us, he'd say, "As you was, men as you was, we all wanted to correct him but we didn't because this was all, you know, they didn't get paid for it. QF. Speaking of drilling, what did you do at Avenger to learn to drill?

00:52:50.740 - 00:53:09.480

AD. I had his name momentarily and I forgot it now, but I knew my left foot from my right foot. That was no problem. And in going to and from classes or the flight line and the mess hall and so forth, how did you go?

00:53:09.600 - 00:53:17.940

Did you go in groups or did you go individually? No, no. We went by our bay. We sang.

00:53:20.250 - 00:53:35.580

All depended what hour, if it was early in the morning, we were too quiet. Later on the day we would sing as we marched along. Do you recall any of those songs you sang? No, not right now.

00:53:37.930 - 00:53:53.780

After you leave, I will remember all of this. Describe what a typical day was like in training. Pat Collins blowing the bugle, and as sour as could be. Did you interview Pat?

00:53:53.840 - 00:54:10.740

I think she's in the Virginia or Washington area. May I eat a grape while we're doing this? Kelly: Oh, sure. You recall what time of the morning you had to get up?

00:54:12.360 - 00:54:30.100

Lee: I think Reveille was at six. And as far as getting ready for the day, as far as the bathroom is concerned, did that become a problem? Lee: No, that was no problem.

00:54:31.220 - 00:55:00.540

Somebody was kind enough to introduce packages or boxes of big matches, household matches, barn burners we called them. That was the smartest thing that was ever introduced into the latrine. Kelly: During primary training, did you fly just off of Avenger Field?

00:55:01.940 - 00:55:18.200

No, we had an auxiliary field and it also had a chick sail on it. And what do you call them? Jack rabbits? We would see jack rabbits.

00:55:19.870 - 00:55:41.160

You dodged the jack rabbits. It was a lumpy field, I remember that. I don't think they mowed all the time. Once you finished the primary training, did you have some time off?

00:55:42.020 - 00:55:59.500

Yes. And this is a strange thing. The whole time in primary, I don't know if that affected other girls, I never had a period. When we had a week or ten days between, I don't recall anymore.

00:56:00.480 - 00:56:22.400

I got a period. And I understand that happens to women, that when they're, well, like I was, flying, that that can affect your periods. And I had a cousin living up near Amarillo, Texas, and I went up there for that weekend.

00:56:23.980 - 00:56:49.300

I got a period. I couldn't believe it. I said, "This is the first time since I left home." And came back and went into Basic. Nothing again for the whole period I was in Basic. I would carry one in my pocket until it was just like sawdust. In those days, you didn't have tampons, or

00:56:49.160 - 00:57:02.300

At least I didn't use them. And that was the strangest thing. When you went into the next phase... Is this what's going to be public?

00:57:02.300 - 00:57:18.240

No. Grapes are good. When one of your bay mates would wash out, how did that make you feel? You never knew it until you came back and you saw an empty cot.

00:57:22.340 - 00:57:35.120

Sometimes you could understand why they did wash out. Other times you were very sad and, like I say, you hoped you would not be the next in line. You hoped you would not goof where they goofed.

00:57:36.290 - 00:58:09.100

Kelly: Tell me what would happen on Saturdays. I guess I was mostly right. I didn't care to go into the little town. I wasn't a movie buff. And like I say, the one and only time I went into that Avenger Club, I think it was like on the second floor, and there was drinking, and I thought, "Ah, this is not

00:58:09.000 - 00:58:33.900

for me. Not that I was against drinking, but I did the share before I went in, so it wasn't anything new. But I don't recall much of the town. Kelly: Tell me about inspections. Lee: Woe to the guy in that bay that didn't have it down to a pat. We never got an infraction.

00:58:35.680 - 00:58:54.320

never had an infraction. I think we all kind of checked on each other to make sure this is right, this is right, all six of us. Kelly: During the time you were there, some girls had already graduated. Were you aware of what they were doing?

00:58:56.560 - 00:59:38.500

Litz: I would not know. No. Kelly: Did Ms. Cox— had a wedding. What was her name? I can see her coming up the walkway in white. I guess it must have been private, I was not at it. Maybe it was a private sort of thing. But

00:59:40.100 - 01:00:13.820

I do not think she stayed with the class. She would have been down in my area. It could not be Shoemaker, because Shoemaker just died. But anyhow, this gal got married and I can seer walking up the sidewalk. Did Joni Michaels or Lemley recount that at all, a wedding?

01:00:13.910 - 01:00:39.320

Lee: No, but I wonder if it was Tex Meach. I can't remember. I thought her initial was an S. I could be wrong. I'm looking back to see if—

01:00:39.840 - 01:00:52.580

You finished primary and went into the next phase. What airplane did you fly then? The BT-13, loved it. Kelly: What was that used mainly for?

01:00:52.580 - 01:01:11.460

What kind of training? Lee: What do we do with the BT-13? Kelly: Instruments? Lee: Could be.

01:01:13.660 - 01:01:31.260

Last time we were enclosed. We did aerobatics in that. Kelly: How was your instructor in BT? Lee: I don't recall who I had.

01:01:36.860 - 01:01:49.980

I don't have a logbook anymore. And then when you finished that phase, what did you fly? The AT-6. Tell me about that AT-6.

01:01:50.720 - 01:02:08.420

It's a honey. I even have a coffee mug with it, with a picture on it. It was some more power. And it really had get up and go.

01:02:11.260 - 01:02:25.060

It was great, maneuverable. I was sorry I was not assigned to a base that still had them. I got an occasion now and then when there was one that would be brought in to where I was assigned and get a chance in it.

01:02:28.660 - 01:02:46.200

But it had get up and go. While you were in training, how much contact did you have with your family? Oh, my father was a terrific writer. I would hear from him.

01:02:46.600 - 01:03:02.480

I still have a pack of envelopes in there that I sent my family, but I've never looked at them since. My mother kept them all. I remember one time getting a letter from home and it was typewritten and it was punctuated

01:03:03.120 - 01:03:17.560

and it was paragraphed. I knew something was wrong. My dad was in a hospital and this was a nurse that wrote this all out, typed it and everything. And that's the clue that my dad was in a hospital.

01:03:19.680 - 01:03:40.140

Kelly: But did they ever actually then call you and tell you? I think I called them. I most likely called them. Collect. You know, I don't remember how we got paid. I don't recall, did we get an envelope with money in it or what?

01:03:40.780 - 01:03:50.840

I don't think, I don't recall any of that. I just know we got paid something. I know I got a social security number that I never had before. Right.

01:03:53.620 - 01:04:38.080

Oh, they took I remember the long cross country that went to Atlanta by way of—I want to say Stuttgart, Arkansas. But anyhow, when we left Atlanta, we were sent out in the face of a thunderstorm.

01:04:39.300 - 01:04:53.980

We should never have been sent out. And our next stop was going to be Mississippi? I don't remember. But anyhow, got into this thunderstorm.

01:04:55.080 - 01:05:12.160

And just as I came out of the thunderstorm, right across my nose goes a whole load of Navy planes. And they were headed for the airport where I had to go. And you had to come in on what they called a carrier landing.

01:05:15.160 - 01:05:38.760

I wasn't aware of what a carrier landing was, but I had to follow these planes. But we should never have been sent out into that storm. I can recall that one. Then another time a cross-country flight took us to El Paso.

01:05:42.060 - 01:05:59.020

it was, I ground looped. I had a stearman. And the first time I ever ground looped, I was scared to death that I was going to be charged for that wing that got a dent in it, but I wasn't. Did you have to go before the board?

01:05:59.280 - 01:06:16.420

No, no. Let me ask you, when you were at Sweetwater, you were in the wintertime and the summertime? Came into spring and then summer. Tell me about the summertime flying as far as weather.

01:06:18.980 - 01:06:36.280

Do you recall sandstorms? Steele: Oh, that was even in winter. We were on the most westerly position of the bays, so we could look for hundreds of miles off and it would be wonderful to watch the lightning.

01:06:36.400 - 01:06:50.040

I love storms. I used to like to lay over on a bed. Otherwise I had a bed right inside the window. But I'd like to go over into the other side and look out and watch the lightning at night.

01:06:51.020 - 01:07:03.420

It was gorgeous. I still like to watch lightning. And what was a sandstorm like? Well, I'm eating a grape right now and if I didn't take these seeds out I'd know

01:07:03.500 - 01:07:15.200

what the sandstorms were like. I used to get grit in my teeth. You would sweep the floor and think everything was ready and what do you know, it came in again.

01:07:22.220 - 01:07:33.840

Kidney-Doran During the time you were there, there would be graduations of other classes. What would happen when there would be a graduation? We would drill in front of the reviewing stand.

01:07:34.050 - 01:07:47.400

That would be about the only thing. You stood in the hot sun. Tell me about—describe what you wore while you were a trainee. Did you wear some slacks?

01:07:47.520 - 01:08:00.580

Khaki breeches and white shirt. And those god-awful white turbans. I do not know who invented those, but they were horrible. for flying?

01:08:02.430 - 01:08:22.980

You said about the winter with the fleece lined in the summertime, then what did you wear to fly in? Lee: Zoot suits that were ten sizes too big, as you well know. Kelly: As it came time for graduation, did you get new uniforms?

01:08:25.600 - 01:08:46.080

We got our first uniforms, first and only. Kelly: Tell me about that uniform. Lowry: Very snazzy. Navy breeches or Santiago blues, excuse me, and a nice formal jacket, and an Eisenhower

01:08:46.240 - 01:08:59.560

jacket, a beret, which supposedly was, I think, Knox. Knox hats made them, I think. I think that was the label inside. You mean you don't have yours anymore?

01:09:00.420 - 01:09:11.560

Mine are all gone because we moved seven times in 15 years, so I guess they got lost in the move. And the only thing I have left is the buttonless Eisenhower jacket.

01:09:12.280 - 01:09:36.900

But the dress uniform was very smart. The purse was a particularly fine purse. It was a good grain, good quality leather, very beautiful. Was there anything else about your training that you would like to talk about that I've

01:09:36.990 - 01:09:51.100

left out? Well, you really hit all the highlights I can think of. It was a great experience. What is your most memorable memory of training?

01:09:52.460 - 01:10:10.360

whole push and capoodle from start to finish. Kelly: When it came time for graduation, were you given a choice of assignments? Lowry: No, not that I'm aware of. Kelly: Did any of your family come out for your graduation?

01:10:10.360 - 01:10:27.900

Lowry: Unfortunately, no. My cousin from up in Lubbock, Texas—or, yeah, Lubbock, yes—she and her husband and young daughter came down and she pinned my wings on. I think that must have been around the time my dad was in the hospital, I think.

01:10:28.220 - 01:10:59.560

Kelly: When you left, when you got your orders, what did they tell you? Where were you assigned? Litz: I was assigned to Marana, which is north of Tucson, Arizona. Kelly: Then did you have some time off and what did you do? We had time off, I don't recall just how much, but I recall flying from Sweetwater

01:11:00.050 - 01:11:25.960

to Washington, D.C. with a stopover in Memphis with Joan Michaels, whose dad was there for our graduation, and I don't recall what the plane was anymore, but he took several of us as far as D.C. with, I could say, a stopover in Memphis. And it was in Memphis. The hotel we stayed is where the ducks came in and walked the steps. I forget what that

01:11:26.020 - 01:11:42.720

hotel was. Kelly: I forgot. Peabody. Lowry: Peabody, yeah. And when I got to Washington, I had a cousin who was in Catholic U, and he was going to go home for the weekend.

01:11:43.420 - 01:11:54.320

He knew I was coming in there and he met me and drove me home. It was only about 100 miles. When you arrived at home, did you have on your uniform?

01:11:54.700 - 01:12:13.080

Why, of course. How proud did that make your mom and dad feel? Well, my brother is a crazy guy. Apparently he had something that was used in an advertisement at our shoe store and

01:12:13.160 - 01:12:38.040

it was a black, like a bellhop, with a luggage and he had this on our front porch. Our house sat back from the street, there were three steps up and then up into our front porch and here was this bellhop holding this sign, "Welcome Home." I don't think I have a picture of that today.

01:12:38.800 - 01:12:53.860

Kelly: At that point, was he in service? Lane: No, he was out. He got as far as someplace in California in a medical discharge. Kelly: Do you recall what you did during that time off?

01:12:54.220 - 01:13:15.440

Lane: Oh, not really. I have pictures of a kind of a party in our backyard. Our home had a 500-foot lot from front to back, so there was plenty of lawn for having a party out there for nearby relatives and so on.

01:13:15.970 - 01:13:38.320

Kelly: Did you go back to your high school or to your college? Lee: No. Kelly: When you left then to go out to Marana, how did you go to Marana? Lowry: I do not know. I kind of think I took a train. I do not know how we went.

01:13:38.660 - 01:14:11.140

Kelly: Were there other girls assigned to Marana with you from your class? Lee, who's dead. I can't recall anybody else. I have to pull out Bird Granger's book and I'd know. Kidney: When you arrived at Marana, to whom did you report?

01:14:11.580 - 01:14:18.380

the CO of the base. And I don't know who was with me. There was somebody else. It must have been Jen Lee.

01:14:18.860 - 01:14:32.000

And she was kind of—she was a society girl. And she was very timid also. And I had to do everything. We're going here, we're going there.

01:14:32.180 - 01:14:40.740

You do this and you do that. And I remember going in there. When you arrived at Marana, were there already some WASPs stationed there? Yes.

01:14:41.300 - 01:15:00.980

Where did you live? In a BOQ. What was your assignment at Marana? Primarily engineering, checking out planes that had been either in wrecks or been written

01:15:00.980 - 01:15:14.680

up for some inadequacy, some problem. Kelly: What was the primary mission of that airbase? Were there training base— Litz: They had Oriental, had Chinese cadets there.

01:15:16.860 - 01:15:35.280

I would like to have been an instructor, but I couldn't understand them. They couldn't understand me. When you were in engineering as a test pilot, did that consist of only WASP or were there Air Force officers doing the same thing?

01:15:35.280 - 01:16:01.840

Lane: There were others there. They were instructors. I recall flying wings on wings to cross-country with them on weekends, which was very nice. I mean, we'd go to Las Vegas or Albuquerque or Denver on one occasion.

01:16:03.620 - 01:16:16.880

Just for fun? Just a weekend to get in the experience. We'd fly on their wings. I remember when we went into Las Vegas, and I don't recall the field anymore, but we

01:16:16.940 - 01:16:31.380

got a ride into a club. And I would say there were about three WASPs and three officers, everybody, that would be six planes in all. We went to this club and they all wanted to gamble.

01:16:32.520 - 01:16:44.180

Well, I didn't have money or else I didn't care to gamble. When they came back, they showed me what they won. I said, "Well, look what I got." And I had a $20 bill that I found under the table.

01:16:44.860 - 01:16:54.660

They couldn't figure how did you get $20 and you didn't even go over to the gaming tables or the silent, whatever you call them. What do you call those?

01:16:55.320 - 01:17:08.420

One-armed bandits. But I had a $20 bill, which I found under the table while I was sitting there waiting for them. Other than the weekends, what was your social life like at Marana?

01:17:08.780 - 01:17:30.440

Oh, we had a terrific officers club that had good music on weekends and I loved to dance. And that was about it, was dancing. They had a theater, but I don't recall much of the theater. Not there, no I don't.

01:17:31.140 - 01:17:42.940

Did you meet anybody special there? Lowry: No. Do you recall how you heard that the Watts were going to be disbanded, and how did that make you feel?

01:17:43.890 - 01:18:07.860

Lowry: Like you were shot down. I do not recall where I was, but oh, that was bleak. I made a lot of wonderful friends there, that is, in the officers. And they were so loath to see us go.

01:18:08.660 - 01:18:24.940

I remember one, in fact, he and his wife and youngsters came and visited me when we had the big house down the road. And we reminisced. And I recall him meeting me at the gate as we were leaving, and he gave me a package.

01:18:25.940 - 01:18:40.560

And I'm sorry I don't have it anymore, but it was a beautiful, if you recall, those tooled wallets that we had so much of in the West. This beautiful wallet. And he had, he always used to call me "Reinie Berg."

01:18:40.560 - 01:19:01.460

I would hear him for a while. "Reinie Berg." of the apron to the other, and he had this hand tooled with my name on it. Then some years later, before I went overseas, my mother and I took a trip, and she wanted

01:19:01.480 - 01:19:19.580

to see where I'd been. And we went through his hometown. He was a very wealthy young man whose father was in cotton, had cotton mills, and I remember going to see them in Tennessee, I think it was, Arkansas, wherever they come from, Arkansas.

01:19:22.160 - 01:19:40.340

I went into this office to see where he was, and while I'm checking in or asking, I heard this "Rainy Bird!" and here he is. Needless to say then, at that airbase you were treated with real respect. Litz: Royally.

01:19:40.600 - 01:19:50.840

Very well. Very well. Kelly: When you were disbanded, did the airbase do anything special for the WASP? Litz: Not that I recall.

01:19:51.680 - 01:20:08.160

Not that I recall. Kelly: Why do you believe the WASP were disbanded? Litz: Well, we were told that there were enough of returnees that we were excess at this point. I do not think we were, but who is going to buck Washington?

01:20:10.020 - 01:20:24.880

Kelly: When you left Marana, then where did you go? Did you go home? Litz: Nope. I went on to California and spent considerable time at Hallie Styer's cabin up above Crestline,

01:20:25.620 - 01:20:41.400

up in the mountains. I call them mountains, I guess they call them hills, but it was up above Crestline. Kelly: And you just did it for fun? Lane: Oh, there were a group of us went there, and we had a great time.

01:20:41.480 - 01:21:01.260

Her mother was there, and we would help with the cooking and things like that. Just fun time. Kelly: And then when you left there, where did you go? I went by way of Texas to visit the cousin that lived there, and that's when I was

01:21:01.340 - 01:21:30.040

asked if I would be chairman of the Red Cross Fund Drive at that time, and I've given you a clipping of it. I guess I was there about two, three weeks and from there, oh, because I learned more about the Red Cross at that time, I thought, "I'm going to go overseas.

01:21:30.640 - 01:21:44.720

I'm going to join the Red Cross and go overseas," which I did. Went down to Washington and got training and eventually… - I'll note it while she changes the tape. Okay, moving right along.

01:21:44.960 - 01:21:49.900

- Good. - You need to get up? - I'm just gonna go as far as the refrig here to get my water.

01:21:50.500 - 01:22:01.560

What do you all need? - I don't need anything. - Coffee, milk, orange juice. - No, you're like a restaurant here. - Not really, I just wanna reach in here.

01:22:01.720 - 01:22:07.760

- I thought I'd try and get my, I'd try and water glass. - There you go. - I need my water bottle.

01:22:08.700 - 01:22:15.140

Oh gosh, I was going to say, did you bring a dog in? I just looked over here. Well, now there's one water bottle here. Do you want another?

01:22:16.400 - 01:22:21.900

That's mine. It's the only one I have. I didn't know I brought it in. That's all right.

01:22:23.260 - 01:22:31.680

It's all right. Oh, those grapes do look so nice. I'm running out of spit. Oh, well, you're the one that's in the hot seat,

01:22:31.840 - 01:22:54.380

kind of, if you want to put it that way. The lightest thing keeps going down. So you were in charge of the Red Cross drive. Do you recall how much money they collected? I gave you the clipping, which gave you some details.

01:22:54.960 - 01:23:14.080

When you got to Washington and applied to go into the Red Cross, what kind of training did you get? We went to the American University. First of all, we were billeted in private homes, and there were about ten of us in this class.

01:23:16.760 - 01:23:32.960

My partner was a girl from out of Cleveland, Ohio, and we were billeted, as I say, in private homes. We were on the top floor, and now this is summertime. They did not have air conditioning in D.C., and boy was it hot.

01:23:33.820 - 01:23:46.920

We would go to the American University early in the morning. I do not know how we got there. Maybe we were nearby. And oh gosh, I knew her name, it is on the tip of my tongue.

01:23:47.480 - 01:24:04.920

We had this wonderful black lady who has a college up here in Florida. I cannot think of her name. But anyhow, she conducted these classes. She was just wonderful.

01:24:05.840 - 01:24:35.520

We sat like in an amphitheater, loads of people, but there were only like ten of us that were going to be going on this one particular assignment. I do not know how many weeks it was either, but I remember after class each day we would to some hotel. It's where I learned to drink martinis. Don't like them today even. But

01:24:35.540 - 01:25:01.440

we got in a thunderstorm one day and I had on a new striped crepe, silk crepe dress. Gosh, it was pretty. And I was so wet when I got into this bar. But when I left there, My lord, the dress had shrunk way up above my knees that finished that particular dress. Oh, that was so funny.

01:25:02.320 - 01:25:32.300

I said, "Never again am I getting in a rainstorm in Washington." From there we went to Camp, ah, Virginia, some camp in Virginia where we learned to cook and you took the tuna fish cans that had been cleaned, the top and bottom taken off and you learned to fry eggs in a tin circle.

01:25:33.640 - 01:26:06.720

And we served breakfast to the GIs there at that camp. There were about 20 of us, and we were trained in really KP. And when that period was over, I can recall us being marched to the pier to sail, and we didn't know where we were going.

01:26:08.700 - 01:26:35.500

And I can still look over my shoulder and see this one girl who was blocks from the ship, sick as a dog. She was seasick before she even saw the ship. And we were on a gorgeous liner that currently is being bought by—I have it someplace here—it

01:26:35.500 - 01:26:57.800

going to be the second sailing on the Mount Vernon, which was originally the Independence, I think. But it was named the Mount Vernon. It was its maiden voyage, and we had no idea where we were going.

01:26:59.920 - 01:27:10.920

We were given menus at night that were exquisite. They were beautiful, told you what you were having. The food was out of this world, after having camp food. What was the name of that camp?

01:27:14.140 - 01:27:28.100

Anyhow, it took us about eight days to cross. And what do you know, we land in Naples, Italy. And I've been back to Naples five times, back to Italy five times since, loved the country.

01:27:30.060 - 01:27:49.720

- Was that unusual? It was still wartime. Was it unusual to have a luxury liner? No, this ship was to bring back Army personnel who had served their tour.

01:27:51.040 - 01:28:08.900

I was assigned to a camp outside of Naples. It was called a Repel Depot, which is a replacement depot. We had 5,000 men waiting to go home, and this was the ship that was taking them home. Kelly: In going over, did they have troops on that ship also?

01:28:08.900 - 01:28:19.260

Lane: Nope, nope. We were just—I think there were fourteen of us. I think there were fourteen. Kelly: Let me ask you, Mary, why would you not have gone back?

01:28:19.560 - 01:28:33.320

You were a professional before you went into training and flying. Why would you not have gone back to that profession? Lane: The war was still on. I still wanted to be part of the war scene maybe.

01:28:33.840 - 01:28:51.320

Karen: When you got to your assignment, where did you live? Lane: Well, I was assigned to Pomigliano, which was a little bitty town. Nobody knows. I have found it on the map, but nobody had ever heard of it.

01:28:55.500 - 01:29:22.860

the west of Naples and my residence was over top of a VD station. As your daughter raises her eyebrows. It had been bombed out by the Germans, the whole place had been destroyed by the Germans and rebuilt and they had a makeshift hangar but our living quarters were over top of this

01:29:23.200 - 01:29:38.840

VD station. We had no wood on any doors or windows. That was taken off by the Germans to burn for heat. And there were, I guess, about four or six of us there.

01:29:39.880 - 01:29:53.340

And this was strictly, as I say, a replacement depot. We had 5,000 men sitting out with their feet in the mud and their heads in the sand, in the dust. It was a horrible, horrible place.

01:29:54.440 - 01:30:09.320

But I loved the work there. And this was the coffee and donut run. Likewise, other services and anything that we could do to lighten these boys that were waiting to leave.

01:30:09.990 - 01:30:31.160

We put on shows, bingo parties, you name it, all manner of entertainment. And there were officers that helped us with it. It was just a great place to be stationed. From there I was transferred out to Caserta, which was the Ritzy end now.

01:30:34.440 - 01:31:01.820

Caserta was a legal department of the Air Force, or the Army I guess. I was out there a while as a club hostess. And nineteen months in all, I pretty much did the boot. I did not get farther south except Sorrento, but north, yes.

01:31:03.600 - 01:31:20.660

And like I say, I have been back twice since, five times since. Kelly: So you were able to travel on weekends or when you had some time off? We had a Jeep assigned to us, and that was at the time that Bing Crosby's show was called Going My Way,

01:31:21.120 - 01:31:31.800

and that was the name of my Jeep, Going My Way. While you were there, Mary, did any celebrities come in to entertain the boys? We had Frank Sinatra one time.

01:31:32.190 - 01:31:56.480

I never saw him, and that was the only one I can recall. These were mostly ground troops as well as air. It was the time when Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo was filmed. And I remember it was shown on the base one time and sitting next to—Trigger Leno was

01:31:56.540 - 01:32:07.760

his name. Boy, how that comes back today. He was sitting there and he was rocking and rocking and rocking as this plane was flying in over Tokyo.

01:32:08.440 - 01:32:25.580

And he kept saying, "Mary, that's the way it is, that's the way it is." He had just come in from a Ploesti raid. And it was very heartbreaking. Kelly: Was that considered a USO club?

01:32:25.730 - 01:32:33.680

Lane: No, just a Red Cross. Crocha Rosa. Kelly: Okay. What was your social life like?

01:32:33.760 - 01:32:57.040

Did you meet somebody special there? No, just great people. Did you play piano there at all? No, we did not have a piano. We put on country fairs, bingo parties, and we had dances in

01:32:57.040 - 01:33:23.680

which we imported Italian girls. The first time I ever saw Italian girls in evening gowns complete with all the hair under their armpits. I almost died. And they told me, "Oh no, you don't ever remove that. That takes away their strength." You learned a lot, believe me.

01:33:25.880 - 01:33:48.300

And during any of these side trips kind of that you made, anything stand out in your mind? Oh yes, driving up to Rome one time by way of Monte Cassino. Today it is a beautiful, beautiful wooded area. At that time it was nothing but skeletons of trees

01:33:50.360 - 01:34:00.980

because the Germans were on top of Cassino and the Americans were coming up. And of course, they were mowed down. And as they mowed them down, all the vegetation was destroyed.

01:34:02.900 - 01:34:26.840

I've seen it since, but it was a bleak, it was a horrible thing. I went up there just before Christmas with a gentleman with a Red Cross to make a phone call to the states, to my parents, to say Merry Christmas. And cold in an open Jeep.

01:34:29.580 - 01:34:41.300

When you were doing this for the Red Cross, did you wear uniforms? Oh yes. Oh yes. You were gray sare suckers and then gray formals.

01:34:42.420 - 01:35:02.600

Dressed. While you were in Italy, were you able to go to see the Pope? Indeed. At that time, Myron C. Taylor was the papal envoy from the States, and there was going

01:35:02.720 - 01:35:33.440

to be the canonization of Mother Cabrini. And I don't know how one of our girls got an invitation through Myron C. Taylor for—I think there were three of us, went up to Rome. And we got there very early in the morning and went into the basilica and we had assigned

01:35:33.560 - 01:35:52.180

seats. We were there maybe like six o'clock, seven o'clock in the morning. And we had these assigned seats that was just opposite from the main altar. didn't start until 10 o'clock and there we sat and of course you wouldn't think

01:35:52.180 - 01:36:19.540

you were in a in a house of worship because there was much chatter people talking and of course all the while the seats are filling up down there and thousands of people thousands not only in the Basilica but out in the square And at the appropriate time when Pope Pius XII came in, he was carried on a, oh boy,

01:36:20.900 - 01:36:44.100

my catechism teacher wouldn't like this, I can't remember what it was called, but he was carried in on like a chair that had, was carried on the shoulders of like four man and we were able to look right down at it. We'd been there so long that we brought out cheese sandwiches and ate them during the service. Cheese sandwiches we had brought

01:36:44.160 - 01:37:13.520

all the way from Naples. And from there we were invited over to an audience with him and I was the first one and he came too. And he spoke beautiful English. He says, "Where you from?" I said, "Pennsylvania." "Oh, Philadelphia?" I said, "No, your holiness." "Pittsburgh?" "No, your holiness." Halfway between. He says, "I know it well."

01:37:13.560 - 01:37:28.220

And he went on down the line. It was beautiful. The highlight of your tour. That time, that day. Then when your time was up,

01:37:28.540 - 01:37:38.340

did you sign up to stay a certain length of time? I was there 19 months, and you could leave whenever you wanted. By that time, I'd had it.

01:37:40.020 - 01:37:51.180

Then to the end? Well, the war was over, and there really wasn't anything. We certainly had personnel there yet,

01:37:52.060 - 01:38:06.280

but I'd had it and I wanted to go home. How did you get back to the States? On a Liberty ship that took us 15 days to cross at a list. Did you ever become seasick?

01:38:06.560 - 01:38:22.320

No. Coming back, did you share a cabin with other girls? I think we did. I think we had bunks, kind of stacked. When you came back to the States then, at that time, did you go home?

01:38:23.180 - 01:38:43.420

My sister by that time was working as a tour guide in Rockefeller Center. Well, let me preface this by saying I had met someone in Italy that I thought I was going to marry, and he and my sister met the ship. But on the ship I met somebody else.

01:38:44.900 - 01:39:03.640

Okay. And when we got off, of course I had to check in someplace, I don't recall what, but my sister and I drove home and I said, "I'm not going to marry Joe Ertle." That was this gentleman from Hoboken, New Jersey.

01:39:05.800 - 01:39:29.040

And she says, "Well, you better tell Daddy because he's been over to see Daddy. Daddy likes him." I says, "Well, I don't anymore." And what attracted you to this other young man? What were the qualities? I don't know. I don't know.

01:39:32.600 - 01:39:59.880

He was tall. Joe wasn't tall. Joe was only about my height. Is this going to be heard by other people? Probably your daughter. Are you going to cut this off because I want to... So this young man that you met on the ship, what attracted you to him? What you look for in a tall, good-looking,

01:40:02.440 - 01:40:12.400

That's not the only reason. But I don't know, we just seemed to click it off. Was he-

01:40:12.400 - 01:40:26.860

He was from Atlanta, Georgia. He was a second lieutenant, I think. What, the Army? Air Force.

01:40:27.540 - 01:40:51.020

But no, he wasn't. He was—whatever, it wasn't the Air Force. He'd been a VMI, so he was—well, I forget. But anyhow, eventually I did marry him, and he was the father of my three children.

01:40:51.920 - 01:41:03.980

When you went home, where did he go? Did he go home? Atlanta, Georgia, back to his home. Then when was the next contact you had?

01:41:04.000 - 01:41:19.120

Next thing I knew, I'm in my dad's store. My dad's office was on the second floor and you could look down and see the rest of the store. Here, my golly, who walks in, but this man that I met on the ship.

01:41:21.980 - 01:42:01.600

came to see me and proposed and stayed with us a few days, I guess. I cannot remember what time of the year it was, but we were married in June. I do not even remember the year. But the day we were married, I do know, it was June the 9th. And that night we boarded a train and went to Denver because he was enrolled in Denver University. And we lived

01:42:01.640 - 01:42:29.460

out there. All three children were born in Denver. And during the Korean-Vietnam War, He had been in Colorado Air National Guard, and he was called back and went overseas. The children and I, we sold the house in Colorado and moved to Atlanta, Georgia to be near his folks where we bought a home.

01:42:30.420 - 01:42:47.960

Eventually, when he came back, we built a home in Sandy Springs, Georgia, which is a suburb on the north side of the city. We lived there eight years. In the meantime, we lived in Oklahoma City when he was in training there.

01:42:50.220 - 01:43:14.340

But from Atlanta, we moved to North Florida on the beach, and that was great. That was a good life there. And then he got transferred here to South Florida, and here I am. Kelly: What was his profession, Mary?

01:43:14.420 - 01:43:36.780

Litz: He was in construction, home building. Kelly: How many children did you have? Litz: I had a boy and a girl, twins, and then another girl after that. As those children were growing up, how involved were you as parents with their activities?

01:43:38.480 - 01:43:59.120

Constantly. There was always something going on, and I was involved with their school activities, what they call parent-teachers association. Tell me how important you think it is for parents to be involved.

01:43:59.200 - 01:44:28.540

Oh my goodness. That should be a main factor in every parent's life to not only watch the progress of their schooling, but go to PTA meetings or whatever their home association meeting is called, and just enter into everything that has to do with the life of that child in school.

01:44:28.540 - 01:45:04.260

Kelly: Was your daughter in the Girl Scouts? Were you involved? Lane: Yep. My younger daughter was in Scouts down here at a Catholic church. Let's see, she went to grade school down there. Yes, I was like a Scout mistress or whatever. I That round table you see there was brown at one time and they'd all sit around there in their brownie uniforms.

01:45:05.980 - 01:45:30.300

And we played Chinese checkers and we ate Chinese food. And with your son, was he involved in sports? No, he was not a sports individual. He was, what should I say?

01:45:32.940 - 01:45:46.080

Well, let's say this. He is brains. All three kids are brains. But John was more interested in anything that had to do with public speaking,

01:45:48.340 - 01:46:10.000

debating, extemporaneous forensic work, that sort of it. And so was his sister, both of them traveled with the forensic teams from their Catholic high school, which unfortunately they don't have anymore, and it was the best thing. Kelly: How were you involved?

01:46:10.440 - 01:46:28.200

Were you involved in other things such as volunteer service during the time those children were growing up and your husband was at work? Were you into bridge or were you into playing golf? No. I played golf when we lived up in Jacksonville,

01:46:28.300 - 01:46:38.420

but when we moved down here, it was too hot and too expensive. Tell me about your children now. Where should I start?

01:46:41.460 - 01:46:55.240

Eileen was born first. No. Yeah. Eileen was born. There's four minutes between them. John was first.

01:46:58.640 - 01:47:06.600

Four minutes later, after the doctor had left the delivery room and the girls called and said, "She's not deflating." Of course, those days they didn't have

01:47:09.340 - 01:47:24.220

the ultrasound as they do today. What do you know, four minutes later, here's a little girl. That was on Labor Day of 1951.

01:47:27.980 - 01:47:51.920

After John finished athlete high school up here, he went to Emory University. From there he went to Harvard. Today he's in his 23rd year at Boston College as a professor in psychology through religion. Eileen went to University of Florida.

01:47:54.180 - 01:48:17.540

She was in what they call angel flight, which they no longer have. She was into speech. Today she travels all over the world as a member of the National Speakers Bureau. In fact, right now she should be en route to some place in North Carolina, and I hope

01:48:17.620 - 01:48:38.900

she's not going through that tornado area that we had last night. And she has been to Kuala Lumpur. She's been to Germany. talked to the government something in Germany. She's been to Buenos Aires and talked to groups

01:48:39.000 - 01:49:06.660

down there. But I don't know how she does it. She's married to a wonderful man and God love him. He's got to meet her plane. She lives in California, meets her at the most God awful hours. And what do you know, it's a case of changing suitcases. I got to go out again tomorrow. And the younger daughter graduated from the University of Florida in

01:49:08.480 - 01:49:45.520

telecommunications and speech and she moved to California likewise and married a gentleman who, well no, before she did that, she got into the film industry and married a gentleman who was in production and Susan is in the same field today as a widow. He died four years ago.

01:49:49.300 - 01:50:13.020

I've got things over here that show her latest. The most recent was taking a group of children on a ship called—and you might have seen it on the Discovery Channel—it was called Sail Away. And she took these children—and I forget how many there were, boys and girls—two

01:50:13.020 - 01:50:39.660

two ships on the Grand Exuma Islands for I get how many weeks, but this was to teach these children how to live off of wherever they pulled in, whether it was to forage for their own food, though they had food aboard, but they learned how to live at sea with what they ran into there.

01:50:41.780 - 01:50:52.220

And that's all over there if you want to see it. Kelly: And they did a documentary on that? Litz: Oh, yes, yes. This has been on the Discovery Channel.

01:50:53.460 - 01:51:15.780

I forget how many weeks they were out there. But she and her partner have their own production company called Two Oceans, because they were both in Europe as well as the States. Has Susan ever mentioned doing a documentary on your life?

01:51:16.660 - 01:51:33.040

No, because I think BJ has got that sealed about there. What do you think BJ is doing? She's got her finger in a lot of film work according to what she says.

01:51:35.780 - 01:51:53.320

Do you have grandchildren? I inherited four, no three, when Eileen married Bill Elvins. There's Holly and then Todd and Heather. And I have four great-grands.

01:51:54.600 - 01:52:09.720

Two live up in Corbett, Oregon. And two in Solana Beach, California. So everybody's on the West Coast and that's why I travel to California a lot except your son he's

01:52:11.160 - 01:52:27.160

Adopted a little boy out of Russia Sasha and that's Sasha's picture there in the middle and Sasha Surprisingly has a birthday the same day as John September the 5th and

01:52:27.660 - 01:52:41.040

He's now 12 years old They've had him seven years and he goes to a private school. What a boy, what a boy.

01:52:42.240 - 01:52:54.540

- Are you able to have family reunions? - Two years ago, there were all of us out in California at one time for Christmas. My daughter rented a, what do you call it?

01:52:55.880 - 01:53:05.840

Moving, a motor home. And the boys stayed out in the motor home. They had their own bathroom and everything else out there, and the rest of us were in the big house.

01:53:06.050 - 01:53:31.380

Kelly: Okay. Mary, how do you spend your time now? Oh, well, I volunteer with our guild church and I do- In that, excuse me,

01:53:31.380 - 01:53:51.400

the volunteer work consists of? Church functions, things in that sort. This will be my second time as Secretary of our Gilded Church, and in the summer it's not active, though next week I will be emceeing an installation of the new officers, and it

01:53:51.400 - 01:54:23.560

will be my second time around as Secretary. Before that I was five years taking care of the sick and those who needed, what do we call it sympathy and encouragement. No, anyhow, that kept me busy. Kelly: As you look back over your life, everybody has good times and bad and happy times and

01:54:23.580 - 01:54:44.600

sad times. What has gotten you through those sad times? Well, I was getting ready to celebrate my 25th anniversary with Mr. McDar, the children's father, when I got a subpoena. And what do you know, he wants a divorce.

01:54:48.100 - 01:55:21.640

I was floored. I immediately called one of the priests up at church who came down, and he said, "There he saw something apparently one time and suspected something. He was a traveling salesman, I mean, I traveled a lot, so I do not know what went on when he was not at home. And it was

01:55:22.360 - 01:55:51.600

the children were very, they sustained me. Susan was still in high school and was getting ready to go into college. So we managed. We managed. And then, did you meet someone else? When I was in Naples, I met a gentleman there that he squired me around. I knew that his

01:55:51.600 - 01:56:07.440

wife was coming over in the first boatload of wives. And I met his wife, and for some reason or other we kept in touch. And when we lived in Denver, don't you know he and his wife and their first child came to visit us out there.

01:56:08.160 - 01:56:34.120

And he lived in Florida eventually, and we corresponded Christmas cards and so on. And next thing I knew, his wife died. And of course, I was solo then. And he came over here on the East Coast for some reason or other and came to see me and

01:56:34.180 - 01:56:51.460

ask if he could come back again. And I said, "Sure." So he made repeated trips back here and decided he was alone, I was alone, we should get together. That was it.

01:56:52.240 - 01:57:03.980

Were your children happy about that? Yep. My dad and my sister came down from Pennsylvania for the wedding. He wasn't a Catholic at the time, but he became one.

01:57:06.020 - 01:57:29.240

But unfortunately, he was an ill man, he was diabetic, and we were not married too long when he overdosed on whatever he had to take and he was in the hospital. And another time, for some reason or another, he was in a hospital. And one time I came home on a Saturday.

01:57:30.460 - 01:57:39.820

I was working. I had to go to work. I had not worked all my life. My first husband thought I could go back into the practice, but when you're away for all

01:57:39.920 - 01:58:04.560

those years, everything has changed. And I was working for Blue Cross and Blue Shield as a Medicare analyst right here in the city. There was a Saturday we had to work until noon, and one of the gals came home with me.

01:58:04.660 - 01:58:28.420

We were going to go someplace, and we came into the garage. When I came to the kitchen, my friend had gone ahead of me into the living room, and she hollered, "Mary, come here!" And my land, here comes Mr. Burchard, bleeding like a stuck pig.

01:58:28.970 - 01:58:43.960

He tried to commit suicide. So naturally I called 911 and he was put into the ward up here at the hospital. And I said, "Uh-uh, this isn't for me. I can't take this."

01:58:43.980 - 01:59:01.780

He wanted to go back to his family. I said, "That's fine. That suits me." Mary, of all the things that you've done in your life, aside from your children, what

01:59:02.800 - 01:59:41.360

is the one thing that you're most proud of? I would have made a good life for myself all on my own. Kelly: Tell me, what do you feel the legacy of the WASP will be? I would like to see a women's Air Force. I would like to see women incorporated into

01:59:41.480 - 02:00:08.700

the services. Not like they are today, but a flying organization. And I think I've seen these pictures of the gals that are refueling ships over in Afghanistan. I think we need a separate women's organization. It's not going to happen, but if the women could stand alone when we did, I think they could do it again.

02:00:09.660 - 02:00:39.800

Karen: What makes you happy now? Rose: Phone calls from my kids, letters from my kids, friends that stopped by, going out with them to lunch like I will tomorrow and again Thursday, different groups. Just being active and I own this property, so it keeps me busy.

02:00:42.120 - 02:01:03.900

I've got a fine tenant over here. In fact, I had two gentlemen came in here in '99, two gay men, older, and one died suddenly this past September. And they were designers.

02:01:04.260 - 02:01:25.200

They've traveled all over the world. This is a shack compared to theirs. They've redone it over with my approval. I don't think I'm going to make it.

02:01:26.180 - 02:01:51.040

Letter change tapes. Tell me how you have been involved with the WASP organization in that area. Well, I think I've been to most of the reunions and I always take my girls with me. When we had the reunion in Washington, I even had my son because he could come from Boston

02:01:51.220 - 02:02:04.660

for that. If indeed we go ahead with the one in Virginia next year, two years or whenever, I'd like to have all three again. I've always had them with me.

02:02:07.340 - 02:02:44.840

What is your personal opinion of Jacqueline Cochran? I was to her apartment in Washington, and I remember—it's where I learned to eat lobster bisque. I thought she was a brilliant lady, very cut and dried, so to speak. This is how it is. And I think that was a terrific attribute of hers.

02:02:45.380 - 02:03:04.260

What was the occasion that you were in her apartment? I don't remember. I don't remember. Maybe three or four of us there. I don't recall. But I do remember lobster bisque. What do you feel the WASP accomplished?

02:03:08.500 - 02:03:52.320

precisely what was said by the gentleman who was all for us, and that was, "Women can do—fly just as well as men." I think that was his closing statement. Those are not the exact words, but give us a chance, we'll meet them toe to toe. If in looking ahead generations to come and children are watching this film and listening

02:03:52.320 - 02:04:19.860

to what you have said, what would you like to say to those children that might encourage them or motivate or inspire them. What's the message that you would like to give to those children, including your great-grandchildren? Everything's possible if you make up your mind.

02:04:27.060 - 02:04:40.100

No matter what you want to be, you can be. You've got to work. You've got to work at it. Everything is worthwhile.

02:04:41.880 - 02:05:07.640

Just make up your mind to do it. Is there anything about your life that I have left out, failed to ask you, that you would like to have on this tape? I think you've kind of hit all bases. I think you have. I spoke of my brother. I failed

02:05:07.720 - 02:05:37.080

to speak of my sister other than that she met my boat because at that time she was a tour director over in Rockefeller Center. But she went on to become an actress in Hollywood. She was in the Mr. Belvedere series. She was disenchanted with the lifestyle out there.

02:05:38.740 - 02:05:49.660

My father was not happy that she was in movies. He did not like the Hollywood life. She came back to Pennsylvania after she finished. What do you know?

02:05:50.960 - 02:06:12.300

She visited a convent that was about 20 miles east of the city. She spent a weekend there, and she decided, "This is the life I want. This is the life." She liked what she saw.

02:06:13.150 - 02:06:36.280

It wasn't something that you were behind closed doors or anything like that. She became a nun with her background in speech from a college in Pittsburgh. I forget the name of it. But anyhow, she became a vocation director and traveled a lot.

02:06:42.700 - 02:07:07.200

Then she took some courses down in Baltimore and became a chaplain, and for seventeen years she was a chaplain in the St. Joseph Hospital in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. She would be there yet, except the hospital has been sold to a profit-making outfit, which St. Joe's was not, and likewise has had some serious surgery.

02:07:08.180 - 02:07:26.880

So at this point she's recovering and hopes that whenever she gets well enough, she'll volunteer in whatever hospital is available as a chaplain again or in a gift shop or whatever. But she's very active in that respect. Do you get to see her often?

02:07:27.540 - 02:07:52.720

This is the first Easter I've missed going up there in years. because she was hospitalized and granted, we're like family. All those sisters that are left up there, it's like more of my sisters. I'll be going up in June and see her then.

02:07:54.420 - 02:08:08.680

Lynn Roberson Anything else? You've bled me dry. Nancy has some. I had a couple. While you were at Avenger, you mentioned something about you and Anita doing something for the church.

02:08:09.160 - 02:08:34.940

We had Sunday Mass. There would be a priest come out from the city and have Mass there for those who attended. Anita and I would be the acolytes, or what you call "servers." At that time the Mass was in Latin. I knew Latin, Anita knew Latin, so we had the responses all in Latin as the priest had Mass. We were like on the altar, so to speak.

02:08:35.840 - 02:08:45.120

What building was that in, do you remember? I wouldn't know. How many attended? Not too many. Maybe ten.

02:08:46.120 - 02:09:03.840

Early Sunday morning? It would be early, yes, maybe 8, 9 o'clock after mass, MESS, M-E-S-S, after we had breakfast. Kelly: While you were at Avenger, there was a couple of fatalities. Did that have any effect on you?

02:09:03.900 - 02:09:24.800

Did you know the girls that died? Litz: No, they were, I think, in Flight 1. Yes, you felt crushed about it and you were—sorry about it. was a death when I was stationed at Marana. And that was Peggy—no, no, no, what was

02:09:24.800 - 02:09:47.660

her name? Anyhow, that was a case of where, past the hat. Kelly: Past the hat. Litz: To get her wherever she was being sent. Same way when they were killed in Sweetwater. There were no funds or nothing.

02:09:48.560 - 02:10:05.440

The government did not come in and pay to send that body home. Kelly: Today, have you remained friends with Wasp from your class? Lee: Indeed. In fact, I wish it could be more so.

02:10:06.300 - 02:10:34.820

Joan and I got the idea in order to keep the class kind of intact. we would get each person's birthday so that we could drop a note to them. I've sent out government postals to quite a few, had very few responses. Now I do know that Mary Reddick is apparently in a dementia state. And Jerry Tribble, she can't hear thunder. I called

02:10:34.820 - 02:11:03.080

her when I came back from Arizona. And I went to talk with her and her husband got on the phone and he says, "Jerry can't hear anything." And Jerry used to be active with us. So that's changed. I've been to Reddick's in Albuquerque. I've stayed there. I've had dinner there. And to think that she and I were buddies.

02:11:04.120 - 02:11:20.220

In fact, my father sent her a pair of shoes when we were stationed in Sweetwater. I do not know what it was anymore, whether she liked what I had on or something, but my dad sent her a pair of shoes. And she was thrilled to death.

02:11:20.540 - 02:11:31.040

Levy: Is that the Mary Reddick that was a judge? Was she a judge? No, no, no. R-E-T-I-C-K. Oh, okay.

02:11:31.400 - 02:11:45.580

Retic, R-E-T-I-C-K. She lives in Albuquerque. Her husband has had repeated surgeries on his knees. But I think when I called out there, I talked with him and he says,

02:11:45.660 - 02:11:55.580

"Mary can't talk anymore." I don't need to make sense or anything. Okay. Anita? Anita called me and she said,

02:11:55.620 - 02:12:06.340

"I'll call you before I leave," I haven't heard from her and I've got a letter started in there and some other things to send to her. But yes, she's pretty good about writing.

02:12:07.980 - 02:12:13.240

Anything else? Thank you so much. Thank you. You're terrific.

02:12:15.580 - 02:12:18.460

I've got to show you something. Okay. All right. I've got to get your mic off.

02:12:18.540 - 02:12:22.360

Yep. I'm going to do that. Okay. Thank you.

02:12:26.710 - 02:12:26.860

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.