00:00:01.180 - 00:00:20.060

And they had asked us to set up a little area to show who the WASPs were. So we took some pictures and we took the WASP flag. And so we had a nice little area all set up and it rained all day. And we were in these hangings, all the recruits that come into the Air Force.

00:00:20.160 - 00:00:36.080

They graduate a thousand kids a week to go on to further training for the Air Force. So here were all these hundreds and hundreds of kids. Well, they were already in the Air Force, but they were in boot training at Lackland.

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And they would come up and start looking at our exhibit. - We're gonna have a good time. - Yeah. (laughing)

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- Yes, I am. No, I'm done rolling bar. - Okay. - You can go ahead and talk.

00:00:49.380 - 00:00:59.740

- Okay. I'm Deanie Parrish with Wings Across America. Today we are interviewing Mary Ann Gordon. She was a WASP, class 44-9.

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We are in her home in Satellite Beach, Florida. Today is the 26th of April, 2003. The videographer is Nancy Parrish. Okay, Mary Ann, if you'll just -- we'll start off.

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You'll give me your full name and when and where you were born. Mary Ann Gordon. I was born in Zenia, Ohio, on May 2, 1921. And your maiden name, Mary Ann? It was Baldner, B-A-L-D-N-E-R.

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Tell me about your mother. What was your mother like? She was a very lovely lady. She was a newspaper lady. She did not go to college, but she married my father right after World War II.

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They lived in Zinnia, Ohio their whole lives, both of them. Wasn't that a very unusual occupation for a female, to be in the newspaper business? I don't think so. She was, you know, secretary, reporter, until she married, and then that was the end of

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that. And your dad? My father, his father built automobiles. They invented one of the very first ones.

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So they had a garage in Zinnia, Ohio, the Baldner Motor Company. And he worked there until the Depression. And then he got a job teaching auto mechanics at the Ohio Soldiers and Sailors Orphans Home, which is in Zinnia, Ohio.

00:02:59.040 - 00:03:12.640

he did that until he retired. When you were born, did you live in town or did you live out in the country? We lived in the city of Xenia, Ohio. Did you have siblings?

00:03:13.240 - 00:03:31.400

Yes. Tell me about your siblings. I had a sister seven years younger than I and a brother nine years younger. And he is a West Point graduate and went to the Air Force and retired and lives in Tennessee.

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When you were growing up, was your dad building cars then? No, he wasn't building them any longer. They were out of that business. They were repairing automobiles.

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And once in a while, I think they sold one for a while. - Did he have a garage? - Yes, Baldner Motor Company. - As a young child, how did you spend your time?

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Did you have a lot of playmates other than your brother and sister? - Yes, there were neighborhood children and we had empty lots near our house.

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Then we played cowboy and Indian. built tree houses and things like that. Okay. Marian, tell me about your grandparents.

00:04:22.080 - 00:04:31.460

Well, I've already told you about my grandfather. Okay. And I never knew my mother's parents. They were both gone.

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And my grandmother, who's a homebody, she loved to garden and preserve things. They were very German. Do you remember what she grew in that garden?

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Everything, just about, I think. Sometimes it was bigger than others, but mostly garden vegetables. How far did you live from your grandparents? About three blocks.

00:05:06.220 - 00:05:30.180

What kind of influence did those grandparents have on you? I think they had a lot. We saw them frequently, always had Thanksgiving dinner with them. My grandfather was a great tease. Would you go over and spend the night with them?

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Oh yes, when I was small. Tell me what a Christmas was like in your home. Well, just like most any home, I guess, we did the usual things. That was a long time ago.

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Do you recall celebrating Christmas by going to things like pageants or church functions or school functions? Oh, yes. We belonged to the Methodist Church, and as a youngster I sang in the choir all through

00:06:18.400 - 00:06:40.240

high school, and always went to Sunday school and church. Then haven't done much of that since. Do you remember being in Christmas plays or pageants when you were in the church? No, I don't remember that, but I probably was.

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Okay. Where did you start school? In Xenia, Ohio. Okay. Was it near your home? Yes. It was about three blocks away.

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Do you recall any of your teachers in elementary school that might have had an influence on you? I used to, but right now I can't. What were your summers like after you started school? Did you take vacations away from Xenia? Yes. My father was in the National Guard, and every summer the Guard went to Camp Perry, Ohio, for a week or two.

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I can't remember how long. And we usually accompanied him. And this was up on Lake Erie, and it was a great thing to do, and we looked forward to it every summer. Would your grandparents go with you?

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No. It was just the three children? Yes. Okay.

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Do you remember in grammar school what you enjoyed about school? I think I enjoyed the musical things and the plays. I wasn't much of a student, but I always got good grades. When you finished elementary school, did you have a middle school or did you go right into

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high school? We had an elementary school, seventh and eighth grade I think it was, and then we went into high school. Were those in different buildings near your home, or were they separate?

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I do not remember. High school was near my home, it was about two blocks away. When you started high school, what were your ambitions? I was going to be a dress designer.

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And what gave you that idea? I have no idea. Playing with dolls, I guess, and paper dolls. Were you a fussy dresser growing up?

00:09:03.680 - 00:09:17.440

I don't think I was too fussy, but I was neat. When you were growing up, did your mother make your clothes or did you buy them at the store? My mother made some and then I made some.

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I took sewing in college and dress design. I only had two years of college. What did your grandmother teach you? Did she teach you to cook? I don't remember. She probably did. We always had Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner at her house until they got pretty old.

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Was that just your family or did she have other? That was my father's family. My mother's family had gone. But did your grandmother have other children that they would come also? She had a daughter.

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So you had cousins? Yeah. When you would go to grandmother's? Aunt and uncle.

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Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. When you finished elementary, went on into high school, what classes, what subjects did

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you enjoy? It was a long time ago. Who were your role models? Who did you admire when you were growing up?

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I don't remember, really don't. My Aunt Louise, I think, that was my father's sister. Probably some aunts that I had, but I don't remember. When you were in high school, were you still singing in the choir?

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Yes, all through high school. Did you go to Sunday school? Oh, yes. Did your whole family, your mom and dad also go to church?

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- No. I think my mother did once in a while and she always went to her missionary society meetings. - Do you know what inspired you to go, to be in the choir?

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- No, 'cause I had a second cousin I was very close to and we did everything together and we did things like that. How large was your high school? Not very large.

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I don't think. When you finished high school, or when you were in high school, did you have a high school prom? I think so.

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This was a little city of only 10,000 people, so nothing was very large. What was your social life like in high school? We had dances and we always went to the football games and basketball games. I belonged to a gang of girls, there were about eight of us, of course.

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We had little parties and asked the boys to come. Typical high school. When you graduated, did you have caps and gowns? I don't believe we did.

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Did you meet anybody special in high school, or was it just sort of a social group, grouping? I belonged to a sort of gang. I think there were six of us. In high school, what were your extracurricular activities?

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Did they have a choir in high school also? No. They may have, but I didn't belong to that. I played tennis, I was on the tennis team.

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That's about it. Kelly: Okay. Anything in drama or in— Diven: Oh, yeah.

00:13:34.240 - 00:13:46.900

We had the senior class play, the junior class play, and I think I had roles in both. This is a long time ago. [Laughter] Kelly: Tell me about it.

00:13:50.520 - 00:14:03.220

When you graduated from high school, did you know what you were going to do? Oh yes, I was going to be a dress designer. I was going to college and be a dress designer. That did not happen.

00:14:04.700 - 00:14:22.660

I went to college for two years. How did you select the college that you went to? I had a friend, it was one of my father's friends, that got me a job working at a drug store at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, and that's how I went to college.

00:14:22.980 - 00:14:49.140

My folks couldn't afford to send me, but I got a job and worked my way through myself. I only attended two years, so the war came along, and my father was in the National Guard and was transferred to Camp Shelby, Mississippi. My mother took the family and rented a house in Gulfport, Mississippi.

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She got ill and I quit school to go take care of her. So I only had two years of college. Kelly: When you were in college those two years, where did you live? Did you live at home?

00:15:04.080 - 00:15:18.400

Dunn: No, we were farmed out with people in private homes. I lived with a family. And then when you went to Gulfport, did you then live at home? I lived with my family.

00:15:19.240 - 00:15:29.500

They were in a rented apartment. And you took care of your mom? Yes. Did your other two siblings go to Florida also?

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Oh, yes. Mississippi? Mississippi, and they went to school down there in Gulfport. And in the meantime, your dad was in the National Guard?

00:15:40.540 - 00:15:52.360

Yes. station at Camp Shelby, which was a few miles north. What was his primary job? He was commander of Company L, 147th Infantry.

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At that time, he had been a pilot in World War I, and so he was transferred to the Air Air Force and sent to Scott Air Force Base, Illinois. We moved up there. Kelly: Do you remember any outstanding story that he might have told about being a pilot

00:16:20.880 - 00:16:41.260

in World War I? Dunnan: He had a few, but he never did talk too much about it. Do you know what he was flying? Rose: Whatever they flew then.

00:16:42.020 - 00:16:49.480

My sister has his scrapbook and all the pictures. Did he go overseas? Rose: Oh, yes. He was stationed in France.

00:16:51.920 - 00:16:58.400

They were married at that time? Rose: Oh, yes. So, he left her and? Rose: No, they weren't.

00:16:58.610 - 00:17:14.480

They weren't married yet. They didn't get married until after the war and he came home. But they were... Okay, when he was at Camp Shelby, is that when he was transferred into the Air Force?

00:17:14.560 - 00:17:31.140

Yes. He was commander at Company L, 147th Infantry. And since he was sort of overage in grade for the infantry, they transferred him to the Air Force. - Okay, and you moved the family then to Scott.

00:17:31.280 - 00:17:38.920

- Yes. - Where did you live at Scott? - We lived in Belleville, Illinois. - Were you in Air Force quarters or in--

00:17:38.920 - 00:17:54.480

- No, we were in a rented home. And at that time, I started going to the USO. And so I was a USO volunteer, go dance for the troops. (laughing)

00:17:55.820 - 00:18:08.840

I have quite a history, don't I? Describe what that was like. Oh, that was a lot of fun. And that's when I started taking flying lessons.

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How did you become interested in flying? Well, my father was a pilot. And then I heard about, there was a program for women. So I took flying lessons.

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At about that time, I got some kind of an infection or something, and they told me, I was a secretary at Alan Scott Field, and I should only work half days.

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So that other half day, I took flying lessons. - Okay, let me ask you how you found an instructor to teach you flying lessons. - Well, there was a little private field near Scott,

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And I have no idea how I found it. - And how would you get from where you lived out to the flying field? - That's a good question.

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I have no idea. Took a bus probably. Or maybe hitched a ride with the instructor. I don't know.

00:19:10.480 - 00:19:21.020

This is a long time ago. - What was the first airplane that you got in? - I think it was a Piper Cub. - Do you recall your solo flight?

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- Vaguely, yeah. It was quite thrilling. - What did your mom and dad think about your taking lessons? - They never objected.

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They always let me do what I wanted to do. They said I was big enough. - How about your siblings? Did they also learn to fly?

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- No. Well, my brother did. He graduated from West Point and went on to flight school. He served in the Air Force until he retired.

00:20:02.880 - 00:20:19.340

Did you know any girls that flew? No. What gave you the courage to even ask to fly? Do you suppose it was because my father had been a pilot?

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I have no idea. I just— Kelly: And at this point, who is your role model? Beall: My husband, I guess.

00:20:26.680 - 00:20:38.980

Kelly: No, I meant at the time you started learning to fly. Had to be your father. Beall: Probably, yeah. Kelly: So you would work part of the day and then go fly part of the day.

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Beall: Yeah. Do you recall where you were and how you felt when you heard about Pearl Harbor? Yes, we were in Gulfport, Mississippi. I remember that day very well.

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Just shocked and just unbelievable and full of revenge for what we could do about this boy. How did you learn about the training program for women? I have no idea, except we were part of the Air Force.

00:21:19.410 - 00:21:37.660

At that time, my father was too old for the infantry, they transferred him to the Air Force. When you were learning to fly, what was your favorite part about flying? Was it aerobatics?

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Did you do any kind of aerobatics when you were learning to fly? Yes, we did some, but I think the favorite part was go buzz the farmers. Okay. Scare their chickens.

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Were you ever able to take your mom or dad up with you? I don't believe so. After you found out about a training program, then what did you do next in order to be able to get into that program?

00:22:13.700 - 00:22:34.140

You had to have so many hours of flight, so I went to a local airport, a little bitty place, and took flying lessons in a 40-horsepower T-Graft. It was the first one. Did anything unusual happen to you when you were learning to fly?

00:22:34.420 - 00:22:45.580

Did you get lost? Was there ever a time when you were really afraid? Were you ever afraid? I don't remember ever being afraid, no.

00:22:47.240 - 00:23:04.800

I never got lost. So long ago, I don't remember too much about it. Once you knew there was a training program, how did you get an application or how did you get into that program?

00:23:06.260 - 00:23:19.540

I don't know, except that we weren't, my father was stationed at Scott Field, so I may have had access to whatever was available. Do you remember taking the physical? Yeah, at Scott Air Force Base.

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Was that difficult? No. I think they told me to gain some weight. And then, did you have to have an interview with somebody from the organization?

00:23:39.130 - 00:23:55.900

Yes, I believe I went to Chicago. It's possible that I went to Chicago for an interview. And then eventually you got orders to report. How did you get from Scott Field out to Sweetwater?

00:23:56.260 - 00:24:06.680

Like train. Were there other girls at that time? No. Well, there were a lot of girls going then, but none from the Scott area.

00:24:07.420 - 00:24:30.860

How did your mom and dad feel about your leaving home and going into training? My parents were always very supportive of anything I decided to do. At the time you went into training, were your grandparents still living where they were? McMillan: In Athenia, Ohio, yes.

00:24:32.710 - 00:24:46.900

Did you get to visit them much when you were at Scott? McMillan: No. Okay. When you got to Sweetwater, what were your impressions of Sweetwater and Avenger Field?

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I thought it was wonderful. We had a ball. We went into Sweetwater every weekend, got a steak dinner. Looked forward to that.

00:25:04.180 - 00:25:39.220

When you arrived at Avenger Field, what was the biggest adjustment you had to make to be in training? I don't really think I had much of an adjustment. I had been a Girl Scout and used to living with girls and around girls. And I, I, it all came pretty easy for me.

00:25:39.460 - 00:25:54.800

Can you tell me something about your bay mates? Were you all pretty much from the same background? Or was there a variety of backgrounds? There was quite a variety, and ages.

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There were two or three of us from about the same background, but we had a couple of older ones. They changed. Some of them didn't stay around very long, either quit or washed.

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Do you remember any of the rules? Were they very strict on you? They were pretty strict, yes. What kind of airplanes?

00:26:29.920 - 00:26:47.080

What was the first airplane you flew at Avenger? The PT-17. What was it like to fly that Stearman? It was a lot of fun being an open-air plane and land short.

00:26:49.280 - 00:26:59.820

I had a real nice instructor. Do you recall his name? I can see his face, but I can't see his name. I used to know his name.

00:27:00.770 - 00:27:14.980

Do you remember your solo flight in the Stearman? Not really, no. Anything unusual happen while you were in primary? I can't recall.

00:27:19.080 - 00:27:40.120

Tell me what it was like, what was the food like at Avenger? It was edible. As long as it was there, I don't think we paid much attention to how good it was. It was satisfying and nourishing.

00:27:41.980 - 00:27:54.600

I think it was adequate. Is that why you love going into town? Yeah, we got to go get a steak. Do you recall where you went in town to get that steak?

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No. Would it have been the Blue Bonnet Hotel? You just don't know. I don't remember.

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Okay. When did you have time off to go into town? It was just on Saturday night, I think. Do you remember any of the people of Sweetwater? Did you ever come in contact with individuals?

00:28:18.780 - 00:28:40.160

No, if I did, I don't remember them. Okay. Did you do anything else while you were at Sweetwater with the townspeople? For example, did you go swimming out at a lake? I think we did. And there was a pool. I think there was a pool. I have pictures.

00:28:46.300 - 00:29:11.860

Did any of your baymates wash out? Yes, Barney washed out. Her name was Barnfield, Barnsworth, or Barn-something. We called her Barney.

00:29:12.850 - 00:29:25.640

How did that make you feel, Marianne? I felt bad for her. She was a comic and we really missed her. I saw her after graduation.

00:29:25.640 - 00:29:34.840

I went to see her. She lived in Indiana. Did you make lasting friendships with any of the other trainees? Oh, yeah.

00:29:36.540 - 00:29:50.880

You kept up with those. Do you remember, did anything special happen when you soloed? As far as maybe the wishing well? No, I don't remember.

00:29:51.380 - 00:30:08.300

Okay. When you finished primary, oh, I wanted to ask you about ground school. Do you remember any of the courses that you took in ground school and whether or not that was difficult? No, I don't. I know we didn't care much for it, but...

00:30:08.320 - 00:30:17.880

Do you remember Morse code? Not anymore. I thought you could tap it out for us. No, not anymore.

00:30:18.240 - 00:30:38.100

When you finished primary training, then what is the next airplane that you flew? We went directly to the BT for instrument training. Was that difficult? Oh, not really.

00:30:39.010 - 00:31:02.180

I didn't find any of it especially difficult. Do you recall why they felt they needed to train these girl pilots to fly these military aircraft? Yes, because at the time they felt there was a shortage of men.

00:31:02.260 - 00:31:29.640

They thought they were losing too many men in combat, but that did not come to happen. That is when we were disbanded. Kelly: When you finished basic training, then what airplane did you fly? McIntire: We went to the BT-13 for instrument training, and then to the AT-6.

00:31:29.820 - 00:31:40.560

What did you think about the AT-6? I loved it. I loved it. It was kind of scary at first, but it was a great airplane.

00:31:42.010 - 00:31:51.240

Do you remember any of the instructors along the way? Oh, yeah. Any of them give you a hard time? No.

00:31:54.490 - 00:32:03.280

Do you remember Army check rides? Yes. They were scary. But you evidently passed them.

00:32:03.660 - 00:32:23.500

Yeah, I got it. Made it through. Could you tell me about any cross-country trips that you might have taken in that AT-6? Yeah, we took one to Atlanta, and I'll never forget flying into Atlanta.

00:32:23.600 - 00:32:38.540

We landed at Atlanta Airport and the control tower came on and said, "Little lady on the base leg, what is your number?" "Little lady on the base leg." Oh, God.

00:32:39.420 - 00:32:58.380

I'll never forget that. That southern accent, oh, God. Isn't it weird, the things you remember, the important things you forget? Did anybody get lost on that cross country?

00:33:03.300 - 00:33:15.520

We lost a girl on one of them. I can't remember her name. Lost as she was killed? Lost.

00:33:15.520 - 00:33:23.640

She was crowned. She crashed. Do you know what caused that crash? No.

00:33:26.440 - 00:33:45.100

I think she got lost. Was that the only accident? She might have fainted, because she was seen going in circles lower and lower and lower until she crashed.

00:33:47.520 - 00:33:56.000

How did that make your whole class? We were very sad about that. But then you flew the next day. Oh, yeah.

00:33:58.320 - 00:34:20.100

While you were at Avenger, were you able – I don't know how to put it. Did you communicate a lot with your family? Not a whole lot. We didn't have a lot of time to write letters, but I did what I could.

00:34:21.070 - 00:34:41.760

Tell me about the weather, flying at Sweetwater and flying in the weather. It was usually pretty good, except there were times we had such wind we had to go out and hold down the planes. They'd send us out to hold down the steerments. Do you remember anything about sandstorms?

00:34:42.440 - 00:34:51.320

Yeah, that's it. Okay. Were you ever up in an airplane when a sandstorm moved in and you couldn't land? No.

00:34:51.720 - 00:35:03.120

Okay. Anything, how about physical education? Did you have PE? Oh, we certainly did.

00:35:03.940 - 00:35:11.500

A lot of it. Okay. Yeah. And tell me about having to march everywhere.

00:35:12.320 - 00:35:25.260

- Oh, we didn't mind that. It was kind of fun. - Did you sing a lot of songs as you marched? - Oh, we sang all the time. We had a lot of different songs. - Do you remember a favorite song?

00:35:27.660 - 00:35:43.960

- Oh, "Not Off Hand." - Since you've been in the choir, I wasn't going to get you to sing it. - I was just a body. I didn't want to take out with a voice. Tell me about your uniforms. What did you fly in?

00:35:45.480 - 00:36:02.020

We had to, what we had were passed off Army fatigues. They were all too big. We'd roll up the pants, roll up the sleeves. That's what we had.

00:36:03.500 - 00:36:16.580

- And then at some point-- - 'Til we graduated and then we got our own blue jumpsuits. - When you graduated, did any of your family come out to your graduation?

00:36:17.340 - 00:36:28.780

- No, no, they couldn't come. But my father came through Sweetwater Junction with a troop train one time and I got permission to go meet him.

00:36:29.860 - 00:36:45.120

(laughing) He was escorting troops to the Philippines. Was your dad stationed at Scott the whole time you were in training? I think so.

00:36:46.700 - 00:37:01.200

Before you graduated, did you get a choice of assignments? No. When you graduated, you evidently got orders. What did your orders say?

00:37:03.680 - 00:37:17.840

Freeman Field, Seymour, Indiana. In the meantime, had an order come down to disband the WASP before you graduated? You know, I'm not sure. I don't know.

00:37:18.000 - 00:37:28.300

It may have. I don't know. After you graduated, before you reported to Seymour, did you have some time off, and what did you do?

00:37:28.920 - 00:37:38.340

I don't believe we did. We drank directly to Seymour. How did you get from Sweetwater to Seymour? By train, I think.

00:37:39.880 - 00:38:00.960

Were there other members of your class who were also on the same orders? I don't remember. I should know. When you got to Seymour, what kind of an air base was that?

00:38:01.040 - 00:38:10.780

Was it a training base? Training base, yes. What kind of airplanes did they have? Twin engine AT-10, I think it was.

00:38:12.440 - 00:38:28.720

When you went to Seymour, what was your assignment? What were you supposed to do? Test top, when the planes came out of the maintenance. Since you had not had twin engine, did you have to go through additional training?

00:38:29.140 - 00:38:42.220

I imagine so, I don't recall. Where did you live at Seymour? We were in a barracks. Were you with the WACs or the nurses or a barracks of your own?

00:38:43.680 - 00:38:58.480

There were some other women in there. I don't remember that, it's all kind of vague. It was just for six weeks. Do you remember anything special that happened there, or was it just kind of routine?

00:39:02.660 - 00:39:14.840

I really don't. What was a social life like? Did you go to the club? I imagine we did.

00:39:15.940 - 00:39:38.600

I don't think we had much of a social life at all. How did you feel when you got the orders that you were going to be disbanded? Davidson. Yeah, they flew us home from there.

00:39:39.370 - 00:39:53.960

Did they give you a parade? No. I was going to ask you about your graduation. Anybody special, did they have special dignitaries that came to the graduation?

00:39:54.870 - 00:40:11.740

I don't recall. When you were disbanded and they flew you back, they fly you to Scott? My father met us at the plane. And then what did you do?

00:40:12.720 - 00:40:31.460

You were out of the service, what did you do? Nothing for a while. And then it was right after that that my father was sent to the Philippines. Okay, we are going to stop there.

00:40:31.560 - 00:40:39.140

She needs to change the tape and put in a new tape. Okay. Okay, you are doing great. It's hard to remember fifty years ago.

00:40:39.140 - 00:40:49.420

Oh it is, yeah. And especially if nobody had been to the Plains. She didn't even remember the Plains. Well, I'll tell you, we're getting pretty old and we don't remember a lot of things, some of us. Right.

00:40:50.960 - 00:41:15.980

Okay. It comes with age. When your dad got orders to go to the Philippines, was your family, did your mom get to go also? Oh, no. No, they decided to go back to Xenia, and that's what we did.

00:41:16.940 - 00:41:45.260

By this time, had your brother gone into West Point? Let's see, this was in 1944. Oh my gosh. No, no. He was born in 1930.

00:41:49.200 - 00:42:00.160

He had been fourteen. Okay, so when your mom moved back to Xenia, you went with her also? Yes. Did you go back to the same house?

00:42:00.360 - 00:42:11.500

Yes. And were your grandparents still living three blocks away? Just my grandfather. My grandmother had died while we were down in Mississippi.

00:42:12.560 - 00:42:27.760

Then did you get a job? What did you do? I got a job at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base as an artist-illustrator. Where did you get that talent?

00:42:28.640 - 00:42:43.760

I have no idea. I have no idea, but a husband of a friend of mine needed somebody that didn't have much talent, because he didn't either. What was your job?

00:42:44.740 - 00:43:00.000

Taking charts and graphs for the school there, it was the—my husband was a student at school at Wright-Pad. Oh, shoot, I can't remember the name of the school. Oh, dear.

00:43:02.720 - 00:43:09.040

Oh. Did you live at home and commute to Wright-Pad? Yeah. Did you have a car by that time?

00:43:09.060 - 00:43:24.380

I had a carpool. Another man that worked in that same building stopped and picked me up every day. Kelly: And while you were working at Wright-Patt, did you meet somebody special? Ruecke: My husband.

00:43:28.780 - 00:43:42.780

He was a student there at the Institute of Technology, and that is where I was working as an artist. As a student, was he a member of the Air Force? Yes.

00:43:43.840 - 00:43:55.600

He was a captain. How did you meet him? Every morning, we girls would meet in the cafeteria across the street from the school for a cup of coffee.

00:43:57.160 - 00:44:17.580

There were always some students there. I guess he saw me and we were giggling. One day he stopped me in the hall and asked me for a date, to go to bingo. They had bingo at the Officer's Club once a week, and that was that.

00:44:19.400 - 00:44:37.280

What was there about him that attracted you to him? Well, I don't know. We liked the same things, and we just had a good time together. How long was the course that he was taking?

00:44:37.460 - 00:44:50.940

Did he stay there for quite some time? I think it was two years. I'm not really sure. How did your mom and dad meet him?

00:44:52.460 - 00:45:04.300

Did you take him home with you? Oh yeah. We dated for quite a while. I can remember my father saying once, "He's just wasting your time."

00:45:05.860 - 00:45:17.520

And what would a typical date be like, Mary Ann? Would you always go to bingo? Oh no. We went to the movies and they had dances at the club, the Oscars Club.

00:45:19.600 - 00:45:32.920

We went on picnics. I had a big dog at the time. We'd take my dog on picnics and stuff like that. And how long was it before he asked you to marry him?

00:45:37.430 - 00:46:00.920

I do not know. I do not remember now. I probably met him about, I do not know, spring or summer and we got married December 20th. Was that one year after we were disbanded, or more than a year? I mean, December 20th,

00:46:00.980 - 00:46:14.580

we were disbanded in '44. We got married the 23rd, pardon me. Of the next year? No, no, no, no. Let's see, we were 44. Larry and I were married in '49.

00:46:15.060 - 00:46:34.000

Oh, okay. Tell me about your wedding. It was just a small wedding at home, in my family's home. Did your grandfather come? Probably.

00:46:34.940 - 00:46:48.820

Was your dad back from the Philippines by that time, so that he gave you away? Oh yeah, yeah, he was back. Was your whole family there? Was your brother and sister? Yes.

00:46:51.960 - 00:47:01.420

Was it a formal wedding in your home? I wouldn't say so, no, it wasn't formal. Just a very casual wedding. Had you met his parents?

00:47:02.140 - 00:47:09.820

Yes. He took me home to see me to his parents. He lived in Madison, Indiana. His parents did.

00:47:09.960 - 00:47:28.100

He was an only child. Where did you go on your honeymoon? Cincinnati. Kelly: And then he came back and he finished school.

00:47:29.580 - 00:47:41.120

Where did you live? Quintana Newton: In Fairbourn. We had an apartment, or half a house, I guess it was. Kelly: When he finished school, then where did you go?

00:47:42.560 - 00:47:54.640

You want to believe, Kwajalein Island. Kelly: Is that the Philippines? Quintana Newton: No, Kwajalein Island in the South Pacific. It's down there in the middle of the South Pacific.

00:47:54.860 - 00:48:14.260

Kelly: Were you able to go when he went, or did you come later? Quintana Newton: I had to go later, about two or three months later. Kelly: How did you get there? I took a train to San Francisco and a boat to Hawaii, and he met me in Hawaii and we

00:48:14.380 - 00:48:26.220

flew to Kwajalein Island, and we lived in a Quonset hut. Kelly: Describe what a Quonset hut is for us. Russell: Don't you know what a Quonset hut is? It's a tin can.

00:48:30.940 - 00:48:54.800

I can't remember now, something like twenty-three leaks. I had twenty-three cans for my twenty-three leaks when it rained, and it rained a lot. But it was nice, it was fun, we had a great time, made good friends. Kelly: During the day when he was working, how did you spend your time?

00:48:54.800 - 00:49:20.380

Well, I had a dog. I went shell hunting on the reefs and we had a lot of water all around. [Laughs] Oh, what else we do? We had an officer's club and the girls got together and played bridge. We went shell hunting, did a lot of shell hunting.

00:49:21.040 - 00:49:30.640

Did you keep up with your tennis at all? No, no. How long were you stationed at Kwajalein? A year.

00:49:31.780 - 00:49:51.300

And then where was he sent? To Hanscom Air Force Base in Bedford, Massachusetts. He was an operations officer, I think, maintenance. No, he was a maintenance on Kwajalein, operations officer at Hanscom.

00:49:52.040 - 00:50:06.800

What was Hanscom? Was that a training base of some kind? Helen: I'm not sure. At Hanscom, how did you spend your time?

00:50:16.300 - 00:50:22.760

I don't know what I did. I had a dog. Did you do any volunteering? your work?

00:50:22.990 - 00:50:42.180

I think I did, yeah. You play a lot of bridge? Some, yeah, I did. I think I took up golf till later. When his tour was up there, then where were you sent?

00:50:46.840 - 00:51:11.060

From Hanscom, we went to England. Did you get to go with him to England, or did you have to wait there also? Boy, I had to wait. I went later when he got quarters.

00:51:12.480 - 00:51:22.580

Did you fly over or go on a ship? on a ship. Kelly: Anything interesting happen on that voyage? Rueben: Not that I remember.

00:51:22.990 - 00:51:33.240

Kelly: And when you got to England, where were you stationed? Rueben: At Skullthorpe. Kelly: And you had quarters on the base? Rueben: Yes, eventually.

00:51:34.000 - 00:51:52.660

I think we had—for a short time, we lived at Fichenham. And then we got quarters. And then they built new quarters, so we got to move into new quarters. Kelly: What was his job?

00:51:52.770 - 00:52:12.060

Quintana Newton: He was maintenance officer for a squadron. Kelly: What were they mostly flying at that airbase? Quintana Newton: Yeah, it was B-45s, I think. Did you take trips while you were in England?

00:52:12.400 - 00:52:30.580

Yes. Tell me about an interesting trip you might have taken. Well, we went to Scotland, Edinburgh on one, and we went to the continent on another one. Went to Paris, Venice, Switzerland.

00:52:33.060 - 00:52:47.200

We pretty much did the continent one year. That's about it. As an Air Force wife, did you make a lot of friends? Yeah, I think so.

00:52:48.700 - 00:53:17.640

Clay Bridge. When you finished that tour, Mary Ann, where were you stationed? We went to Washington. We lived in Arlington, Virginia.

00:53:18.430 - 00:53:27.400

Kelly: Was he at the Pentagon? Ruebens: No, he was with AFTAC. They had a building there. They've since moved down here.

00:53:31.100 - 00:53:38.340

But they had a building in D.C. Kelly: Oh, okay. Rueb And we lived in Arlington.

00:53:41.320 - 00:53:52.600

What is AFTAC? Air Force Technical Application Center. Now you know as much as you did before. Sounds technical to me.

00:53:53.260 - 00:54:02.760

They snoop. They snoop. Oh, okay. Was that a long period that you were at Arlington?

00:54:02.980 - 00:54:07.160

Was that an extended--? I think it was three years. Yeah. Okay.

00:54:08.340 - 00:54:17.000

And then where was he stationed? Scott. Going back home, kind of, for you. Yeah.

00:54:19.220 - 00:54:32.960

Okay. Where did he retire from? Here. And then, what was your position?

00:54:32.980 - 00:54:49.420

Kelly: At Patrick? Diven: That is why we are here. There is nowhere else to go. Kelly: Of all the air bases where you lived, which one did you enjoy the most?

00:54:49.490 - 00:55:02.960

Diven: Oh, I think this one. Kelly: Do you recall what year you came to Florida, to Patrick? Diven: I think it was the year of the plane crash. Kelly: And, I think

00:55:02.980 - 00:55:26.060

He was seventy-eight. We've been here a long time. And then did he retire in seventy-eight? Of all the things that you have done in your life, what is the one thing that you're

00:55:26.320 - 00:55:46.560

most proud of? being a WASP. And do you know why you would be proud of that? Well, not too many people did it.

00:55:49.720 - 00:56:05.740

I don't know, just, it was a great experience. I guess I thought I could do it because my dad was a pilot, an early pilot. I don't know. Kelly: Right.

00:56:06.380 - 00:56:29.680

Throughout your life, Mary Ann, I'm sure there have been some good times and some bad times and certainly lots of happy times, but there must have been some sad times also. What got you through the sad times? I guess no one that wouldn't last forever.

00:56:33.560 - 00:56:51.120

I guess it's the saddest times when I lost my parents or my husband's parents, but that's just life. It's life. Kelly: Let me ask you, what is your opinion of Jacqueline Cochran?

00:56:52.850 - 00:57:18.240

Russell: Well, she's something else. Is that the right answer? She's an ambitious woman and she's really accomplished a great deal. I got to admire her, but I think she probably stepped on a lot of toes to do it.

00:57:20.390 - 00:57:47.980

Kelly: But had she not done it, would you have ever been a Wasp? Probably not. Probably not. You're good. You think of a lot of things to ask, I'll tell you. I want to ask you now, if you could say something to children, there will be children who watch this interview 50 years from now.

00:57:49.700 - 00:58:13.340

What would you like to say to those children that might inspire them or motivate them to do something special or do something that they had never dreamed they could do? What kind of words of encouragement could you give them? I don't know.

00:58:13.380 - 00:58:36.820

I was like that. Follow your dreams. can do it. If you don't try, it won't happen. If you could go back and change any of your life, what would you change?

00:58:45.460 - 00:59:04.940

I can't think of anything. I kind of wish I could have stayed in college and graduated, but I felt the need to go home. My mother was ill and they were far away from home. That's about it.

00:59:05.090 - 00:59:15.280

Kelly: Can I ask you what you mentioned earlier? I was just curious about this. You said that your grandparents were very German. What does that mean to you?

00:59:25.100 - 00:59:52.920

My grandfather, he just had a—what do I mean by that? They are always right. I don't know, just gruff. He had a great sense of humor.

00:59:53.030 - 01:00:15.480

He was a great prankster. Kelly: Did he ever do anything, did he ever pull a prank on you? Heinlein: Probably. I was in the American Red Cross for seventeen months after the war.

01:00:19.430 - 01:00:40.280

Where did you go, Marianne? I went to Paris, I was in Fontainebleau, and then I went to Herzegovina, Germany. Wow, and what did you do? Were you in the canteens? I gave dance lessons and played bingo and called bingo

01:00:41.150 - 01:00:51.920

And served doughnuts and stuff like that, you know Red Cross work Red Cross Club for the guys over there Oh, that's neat.

01:00:52.060 - 01:01:01.860

That's why I left these out, just in case you thought of something else. That's all. >> How did you get over there that time? >> Went on the Queen Elizabeth.

01:01:02.320 - 01:01:14.840

>> What was that like? Wow. >> Well, it still, it hadn't been refitted as a luxury liner yet, so it was pretty much still a troop ship, so it wasn't very much.

01:01:15.160 - 01:01:23.000

>> Okay. Were there also troops on that ship going over? >> I don't know. Probably. I don't know. Probably, yeah.

01:01:23.260 - 01:01:32.760

>> Right. Did you have a friend? Did you know someone else that was volunteering with the Red Cross? No, not… No.

01:01:33.320 - 01:01:46.480

You just thought it up by yourself? We were recruited, you know, as former WASPs. And there was a few of us, I think, that did do that. I was recruited and went to Chicago to be interviewed.

01:01:50.260 - 01:02:02.080

Did you wear a uniform? Yeah. With the Red Cross on it? So then you came back to the States to your house.

01:02:03.660 - 01:02:14.020

Buckner: I went to work over at Wright-Patters where I met Larry. Kelly: Good. Well, I'm glad you remembered that, where you met Larry the Brigadier General. But he wasn't then.

01:02:14.020 - 01:02:21.440

Buckner: He wasn't then. Kelly: Did you think he would be? Buckner: First Lieutenant, of course. I never thought about it.

01:02:23.240 - 01:02:32.700

I don't have anything else. No, but I just really, we really thank you for doing this and kids 50 years from now are going to thank you for doing this.