00:00:00.000 - 00:00:19.360

[AUDIO OUT] --in 1964 at the conclusion of the anti-religious campaign of Nikita Khrushchev. And during this meeting, two Christian women

00:00:19.360 - 00:00:31.920

said to him, be our voice. Tell the situation exactly as it is, and others will come forward to help. And in fact, in many ways, that was prophetic.

00:00:31.920 - 00:00:47.040

The work of Keston College began officially in 1969. But that meeting in the Soviet Union in 1964 was really a precursor to what would happen. So in many ways, our next panel discussion

00:00:47.040 - 00:00:58.960

is very much symbolic of the work of Keston College, as we seek to represent authentically and accurately and objectively, to the best of our ability, the voice of believers in the Soviet Union

00:00:58.960 - 00:01:11.080

and Eastern Europe. This morning, we are very privileged to have as our interpreter Irina Katz, who has been in the United States for a couple of years.

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She is a lecturer of Russian language at Boston University. And I'd like to welcome you, Irina, to our panel and our forum. [APPLAUSE]

00:01:28.540 - 00:01:41.260

We will be working from right to left. And so I would like to now introduce Boris Pitchotkin. Boris, would you just-- [APPLAUSE]

00:01:41.260 - 00:01:56.580

In 1963, in January, a group of 32 Pentecostals from Chernogorsk in Siberia, including 14 children, pushed past the Soviet guards into the American embassy in Moscow.

00:01:56.580 - 00:02:05.380

They requested political asylum and assistance to emigrate without success. Nothing more was heard of these Christians for a number of years.

00:02:05.380 - 00:02:17.140

But by the late 1970s, it became clear that not only did they wish to emigrate, but also thousands of other Pentecostals, despairing of ever being able to bring up

00:02:17.140 - 00:02:33.800

their children in the faith, wished to join them. The issue was highlighted by the Siberian Seven, as they became known, who spent almost five years in refugee in the basement of the American embassy in Moscow.

00:02:33.800 - 00:02:46.220

Boris Pichotkin has been a spokesman for Pentecostals wishing to emigrate from the USSR since the late 1970s. He has served a total of 3 and 1/2 years

00:02:46.220 - 00:03:01.820

in prison and labor camp for his activity in this area in 1980 to 1982, and from 1983 to 1984. Boris became a Christian when he was 16. He has served as an ordained minister

00:03:01.820 - 00:03:14.820

in his hometown of Nakhotka in the Soviet Far East. Although he never knew his grandfather, a Pentecostal minister who died in a Siberian camp in 1933, Boris has said that his grandfather's example

00:03:14.820 - 00:03:26.120

has served to inspire him in his own faith. When President Ronald Reagan visited the Soviet Union last year, he met with a number of believers, including Boris.

00:03:26.120 - 00:03:38.960

I understand that Boris carries in his wallet a presidential seal that has been autographed by President and Mrs. Reagan. Boris left the Soviet Union in June of last year

00:03:38.960 - 00:03:55.760

with his wife, eight children, and his mother. He is the founder of the Slavic Refugee Relief Committee, which works on behalf of Soviet Pentecostals. And the committee is located in West Springfield, Massachusetts.

00:03:55.760 - 00:04:39.880

[ Silence ] [ Background noise ] [ Foreign Language Spoken ] >> The fact that I am here today, far from my country,

00:04:39.880 - 00:04:58.560

is in a way an abnormal fact. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] And why is it that thousands of my fellow believers are in the same situation?

00:04:58.560 - 00:05:21.040

[ Foreign Language Spoken ] The millions of my fellow Christians are illegal in Russia. [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

00:05:21.040 - 00:05:48.880

They say a lot about perestroika and democratization now. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] But unfortunately, the same laws, the same laws that according to which we were prosecuted, we and our predecessors,

00:05:48.880 - 00:06:04.440

the laws are the same. They're still in force. (speaking in foreign language) They criticize Stalin and his time

00:06:04.440 - 00:06:29.560

on in every newspaper, in every magazine, in Soviet press. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) But for some reason, Gorbachev and his government

00:06:29.560 - 00:06:45.960

considered that the Stalinist law on religion was a good thing, that it could be left as it is or maybe changed just a little bit. (speaking in foreign language)

00:06:45.960 - 00:07:08.840

And no matter what new law can be issued on religion and religion affairs, there is a question to ask, to what law is understanding of the Bible

00:07:08.840 - 00:07:27.140

and understanding of religion subject? (speaking in foreign language) We, the Pentecostals, believers of our denomination are completely illegal in Russia.

00:07:27.140 - 00:07:47.780

(speaking in foreign language) According to our estimation, More than 300,000 Pentecostals are illegal in Russia. (speaking in foreign language)

00:07:47.780 - 00:08:26.700

My data covers only one Pentecostal community, one city which I know best. (speaking in foreign language) The community, the Pentecostal community in the city of Nahotka accounts 700 members.

00:08:26.700 - 00:08:59.180

During the last seven years, there were 16 trials. The believers were subjected to 16 trials. And over a hundred families left from this city. So you see by these numbers that the situation

00:08:59.180 - 00:09:12.500

is far from being normal, and it's not like what the Soviet propaganda tries to represent it. (speaking in foreign language)

00:09:12.500 - 00:09:27.340

Unfortunately, abroad, there are people who act as volunteer advocates, volunteer defenders of the Soviet politics. (speaking in foreign language)

00:09:27.340 - 00:09:53.860

Yes, we can say that many prisoners of conscience are freed now. Let us not forget that these people, prisoners of conscience, were not declared innocent,

00:09:53.860 - 00:10:24.300

but they were forced to ask the government for mercy. They were forced to write letters to the government. (speaking in foreign language) These letters, people were pressured into writing

00:10:24.300 - 00:10:39.500

these letters by beatings, by being placed into punishment cells, being deprived from meetings with relatives, being deprived from food parcels.

00:10:39.500 - 00:10:57.900

(speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) And let us not forget that not a single person of those who were freed and those who were in prisons

00:10:57.900 - 00:11:18.960

and camps before was not rehabilitated completely. (speaking in foreign language) Speaking on behalf of the Pentecostals, of the people who are illegal,

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I think that perestroika should begin with changing the laws. (speaking in foreign language) So we can say with confidence that Christianity

00:11:42.120 - 00:12:04.840

is in still a suffering church in Russia, as it was before. (speaking in foreign language) Because the law on religious affairs

00:12:04.840 - 00:12:29.460

forces people to reject the principles of the gospel, the very essence of the Christian belief. (speaking in foreign language) There is a conflict.

00:12:29.460 - 00:12:40.200

If the Christians follow the law, the Soviet law on religion, they realize that sooner or later they're becoming criminals before God.

00:12:40.200 - 00:12:53.120

But if they do not follow this law, they are criminals before the state. (speaking in foreign language) This is the reason for the emigration.

00:12:53.120 - 00:13:16.040

(speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) But the immigration could have been less if the Christians of the West paid more attention

00:13:16.040 - 00:13:33.280

to the needs of the Christian community of Russia, those who are illegal, those who are underground. (speaking in foreign language) [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

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As a rule, when we were turning for help to Western Christians when I was still in Russia, we did not get any answer. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] The situation could be illustrated with the publication

00:13:59.080 - 00:14:15.760

of an underground magazine, Christian, which is being published by the Pentecostals. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] According to the estimates made by the editor-in-chief

00:14:15.760 - 00:14:38.560

of this magazine, Mr. Grigory Kushin. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] This magazine should be published 100,000 copies. [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

00:14:38.560 - 00:15:00.400

But the numbers are only 300 copies a month. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] And the whole publication is carried with the help of two typewriters. [ Foreign Language ]

00:15:00.400 - 00:15:16.240

While still in Russia, we -- I asked the representatives of several Christian organizations to send us mimeographs. [ Foreign Language ]

00:15:16.240 - 00:15:41.460

the Xerox machines, the copy devices. We didn't receive anything. And now we are trying to resolve this question of getting the copy machines,

00:15:41.460 - 00:15:59.380

but we do not have the means to get them. and it is difficult to have them sent. (speaking in foreign language) I quite agree with what Michael Rose said,

00:15:59.380 - 00:16:16.400

that we should forge the iron while Gorbachev is still there. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language)

00:16:16.400 - 00:16:29.320

We think that in order to use this precious time more effectively, it is necessary to establish close contacts with the leaders of unregistered religious communities.

00:16:29.320 - 00:16:48.920

(speaking in foreign language) The leaders of these communes, the religious communities, excuse me, have proved that they can lead the masses. They can be their leaders,

00:16:48.920 - 00:17:19.520

independent of the political situation in the country. These unregistered communities carry out the bulk of the mission of the, the mission of carrying the word of Christ in Russia.

00:17:19.520 - 00:17:46.040

(speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) - I don't have much time left, so I would like to say,

00:17:46.040 - 00:18:02.700

pay more attention to the people who are there, who are carrying the word of Christ, who there in spite of everything. (speaking in foreign language)

00:18:02.700 - 00:18:31.740

They need your support, they need your prayers. The main thing, give more support to the people who sends the copying devices there, who sends the literature,

00:18:31.740 - 00:18:47.300

who sends the things and resources for the support of missionary movement. - Thank you. - Thank you very much. (audience applauding)

00:18:53.060 - 00:19:12.100

[RUSSIAN] Our next speaker is Vadim Shcheglov. Vadim became a Christian at the age of 40, and he attributes his conversion to reading

00:19:12.100 - 00:19:25.100

classical Russian literature, including Fyodor Dostoevsky, as well as the Bible. In December of 1977, Wadim became the second layman to join the Christian Committee

00:19:25.100 - 00:19:35.460

for the Defense of Believers' Rights in the USSR. The Christian Committee, which was exclusively Orthodox in membership, had as its aim, quote,

00:19:35.460 - 00:19:45.540

"To help believers to exercise their rights "of living in accordance with their convictions," end of quote. In addition to working on behalf of Orthodox believers

00:19:45.540 - 00:19:57.720

suffering for their faith, The Christian Committee came to the defense of Baptists, Pentecostals, Adventists, and Catholics. In a little over three years, the committee, founded by Fr.

00:19:57.720 - 00:20:24.720

Gleb Yakunin, made available some 3,000 pages of accurate documentation, providing the most comprehensive picture ever of the Church in the USSR. As the Executive Secretary of Keston USA, I've had the good opportunity to travel with Vardim to Pennsylvania and West Virginia, speaking to various churches about the present

00:20:24.720 - 00:20:59.940

situation in the Soviet Union. Vardim is a good friend, and I'm very happy to invite him to our forum this morning. [APPLAUSE] I thank the Lord for the opportunity

00:20:59.940 - 00:21:26.280

to be here and discuss together with you the situation of believers in the Soviet Union. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] >> A lot is being said recently about changes in Russia.

00:21:26.280 - 00:21:43.960

(speaking in foreign language) There were always a lot of talk about changes for the best in Russia. (speaking in foreign language)

00:21:43.960 - 00:22:03.480

We really have heard a lot during the 70 years Soviet Russia exists. (speaking in foreign language) I remember a joke pertaining to this matter.

00:22:03.480 - 00:22:25.680

(speaking in foreign language) In a Soviet kindergarten, a teacher is talking to the children about how well the children in the Soviet Union live.

00:22:25.680 - 00:22:32.560

[ Foreign Language Spoken ] What wonderful toys they have. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] Beautiful books.

00:22:32.560 - 00:22:44.480

[ Foreign Language Spoken ] How wonderfully they can relax. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] All of a sudden, a little boy begins to cry.

00:22:44.480 - 00:22:59.320

[ Foreign Language Spoken ] She asks him why he was crying. (speaking in foreign language) So while crying, he says, "I want to go to the Soviet Union."

00:22:59.320 - 00:23:21.760

(audience laughing) (speaking in foreign language) The reason I thought about this joke, 'Cause it seems to me maybe the Soviet citizens

00:23:21.760 - 00:23:38.640

are now in the situation that this boy found himself. (speaking in foreign language) The believers in particular. (speaking in foreign language)

00:23:38.640 - 00:23:54.640

This is my private opinion. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) It seems to me while the Soviet power exists

00:23:54.640 - 00:24:09.680

in the Soviet Union. (speaking in foreign language) There can be no love and friendship between the Soviet government and religion.

00:24:09.680 - 00:24:42.240

(speaking in foreign language) It is clear from what is written, for example, in the rules of the Communist Party. The mentality is completely different. Let us compare the slogans.

00:24:42.240 - 00:24:54.380

The Christians say, "Forgive your enemies." (speaking in foreign language) The communists say, "If the enemy does not surrender, "it is destroyed."

00:24:54.380 - 00:25:13.400

(speaking in foreign language) I could give you many other examples which illustrate the incompatibility of religion and communist ideology.

00:25:13.400 - 00:25:31.920

(speaking in foreign language) Christ and anti-Christ are incompatible, that's clear. (speaking in foreign language) In the light of what I have just said.

00:25:31.920 - 00:25:50.640

(speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) I'm thinking what can Christians of the West do to help their brothers in the Soviet Union?

00:25:50.640 - 00:26:08.240

(speaking in foreign language) Right now, when there is an opportunity. (speaking in foreign language) We know that now a new law on religion

00:26:08.240 - 00:26:31.400

is about to be adopted. Maybe there will even be a public discussion of it. I do not know, unfortunately, I cannot compare it with the old law.

00:26:31.400 - 00:26:51.280

(speaking in foreign language) But what's important is not how this new law will be worded. (speaking in foreign language) But the most important thing that this law is followed.

00:26:51.280 - 00:27:07.800

(speaking in foreign language) What has changed? You heard Boris saying that for Pentecostals, nothing has changed.

00:27:07.800 - 00:27:18.680

(speaking in foreign language) If you go to Leningrad. (speaking in foreign language) And you go to the Kazansky Cathedral

00:27:18.680 - 00:27:32.400

in downtown Leningrad. (speaking in foreign language) You will be able to be present at the service. (speaking in foreign language)

00:27:32.400 - 00:27:44.480

Now you won't be able to be present at the service because there is a museum of anti-religious propaganda in that cathedral. (speaking in foreign language)

00:27:44.480 - 00:28:02.500

Suppose you take a walk on the streets of Moscow where there are churches, Orthodox and of other denominations. [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

00:28:02.500 - 00:28:22.400

You will find many churches which are closed, which do not function. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] You will see that there are offices in the church buildings. (speaking in foreign language)

00:28:22.400 - 00:28:43.080

And even you will find that there are, that there are like pub houses, the beer drinking houses, which are sacrilegiously placed in the churches.

00:28:43.080 - 00:29:07.320

(speaking in foreign language) And the same attitude to religion remains. (speaking in foreign language) That is why I have a request, not only on my part,

00:29:07.320 - 00:29:21.920

but on the part of the believers in Russia that I personally know. [RUSSIAN SPEECH] To demand that the Soviet government follow,

00:29:21.920 - 00:29:49.240

at least, its own limited laws. [RUSSIAN SPEECH] It is my personal experience that I feel the help of the Christians of the West.

00:29:49.240 - 00:30:15.040

I feel your prayers, your help with literature, your struggle for release of the believers who were arrested and who are now in camps and prisons.

00:30:15.040 - 00:30:30.840

(speaking in foreign language) But we need this help now as well, not only in the past, we needed it. (speaking in foreign language)

00:30:30.840 - 00:30:44.000

So forge the iron while there is Gorbachev and even after him. (audience applauding) [APPLAUSE]

00:30:44.000 - 00:31:05.120

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] We'd now like to introduce our third panelist, who is seated to the right of Irina, Mikhail Osadchev. He is an Orthodox Christian from Moscow on a two-month visit

00:31:05.120 - 00:31:16.180

to the United States. He's married and has six children. In the 1970s, he actively supported Father Gleb Yakunin in the work of the Christian Committee

00:31:16.180 - 00:31:27.660

and was also involved in the wider movement for human rights. He has worked as a layperson in an Orthodox parish in Moscow, and he would now like to tell us briefly

00:31:27.660 - 00:31:58.400

some firsthand information about the situation of believers in Moscow and the Soviet Union. Mikhail? [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

00:31:58.400 - 00:32:25.620

>> Using this opportunity to speak, I want to thank the Christians of Keston College and all the Christians of the West for their selfless job on behalf of the Soviet Christians. [ Foreign Language ]

00:32:26.120 - 00:33:01.000

Human rights organizations of the West, such as Keston College, Amnesty International, have a great influence on the Soviet government. (speaking in Russian)

00:33:01.000 - 00:33:25.500

The experience of the past two years of glasnost shows that hundreds of letters sent by Soviet citizens to the government, to KGB, to the internal ministry, to the procurator's office, they did not cause any response until

00:33:25.500 - 00:33:58.560

the same letters appeared in the West. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] >> Last summer, summer of 1988, I met the Christians from an unregistered community of Baptists

00:33:58.560 - 00:34:21.640

from the town of Khartsysk, which is in the Donetsk region. It is in the south of Russia in Eastern Ukraine. (speaking in foreign language) in Siberia and was under strong pressure from the local authorities.

00:34:21.640 - 00:34:50.160

The mail did not reach him, neither from abroad, nor from the Soviet Union. And when his followers came to him, the local police chased them away, and threatened that they would send him back to prison, [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

00:34:50.160 - 00:35:02.600

>> His, their leader, the leader of this community, their presbyter was in exile. And he was being pressured by the local authorities of the place where he was exiled.

00:35:02.600 - 00:35:18.540

He was deprived of correspondence both from Russia, from his parishioners and from the West. And whenever people came to visit him, the local authorities would try to disrupt their meetings

00:35:18.540 - 00:35:41.820

on the grounds that they were having illegal, illegal religious services. (speaking in foreign language) [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

00:35:41.820 - 00:35:54.300

The believers complained to everywhere it was possible to the Soviet authorities, but there was no response whatsoever until the information was given to the West.

00:35:54.300 - 00:36:30.720

(speaking in foreign language) Then the situation took a complete turn. the presbyter received a whole box of letters that were not allowed previously for delivery.

00:36:30.720 - 00:36:43.460

They told him that he could meet whomever he wants and that the question of his release is being considered now. (speaking in foreign language)

00:36:43.460 - 00:37:12.320

(speaking in foreign language) The Gorbachev, the Soviet leaders have recognized and there were articles in Soviet press that the main goal now is creating a legal state

00:37:12.320 - 00:37:37.640

state, that is the state which has respect for its own laws. [RUSSIAN SPEECH] But they do not say when the legal state will be created. It is possible that it will be created at the same time

00:37:37.640 - 00:38:08.840

when the communism is built. (laughter) (translation being made) All the old laws and the drafts of the new laws,

00:38:08.840 - 00:38:28.320

say the draft of the new law on religion that circulated unofficially in the circles of believers, all these laws show only one guarantor for these laws, namely the constitution of the state.

00:38:28.320 - 00:38:51.220

(speaking in foreign language) But the constitution of the USSR will be in full force only in distant bright future. (Ruslan speaking in foreign language)

00:38:51.220 - 00:39:18.640

That is why, and it may be difficult for you to understand that our only real protectors are human rights organizations like Keston College, Amnesty International, Russia Christiana and others.

00:39:18.640 - 00:39:52.260

(speaking in foreign language) (speaking in Russian) (as translated in English) There are speeches of Soviet leaders which give us basis for thinking that they are ready to consider the questions of

00:39:52.260 - 00:40:25.260

freedom of conscience as the international questions on a par with environmental issues and peace struggle. (speaking in Russian) A year ago, right before Reagan's visit to Moscow,

00:40:25.260 - 00:40:52.060

the authorities have showed initiative and have invited believers to the official committee -- the Soviet Committee for the Defense of Peace. (translation being made)

00:40:52.060 - 00:41:10.020

They told us that we could discuss anything, but we couldn't criticize Lenin. (Russian translation) A famous Soviet propagandist,

00:41:10.020 - 00:41:36.540

German Barovik, was in charge of the meeting. (Russian translation) (speaking in foreign language) To put it in a nutshell,

00:41:36.540 - 00:41:49.220

the discussion could be described as the authorities on their part tried to tell, to prove that there is freedom of conscience in the Soviet Union.

00:41:49.220 - 00:42:19.120

and the believers were saying that there is as much freedom as a person without legs has the freedom to run. (speaking in foreign language) They agreed that the Stalinist law and religion,

00:42:19.120 - 00:42:44.360

the law of 1929 is discriminatory and they promised to issue a new more liberal law. (speaking in foreign language) To this, Father Georgi Edelstein said

00:42:44.360 - 00:43:04.700

that it would have been possible to exist under the law of 1929, if it was followed. (speaking in foreign language) (translator speaking in foreign language)

00:43:26.020 - 00:43:44.380

According to the law that exists, it is illegal to refuse to register religious communities. And it is illegal as well that the Orthodox Church gives 30 million rubles to the Peace Defense Fund

00:43:44.380 - 00:43:58.900

because any charitable activity is illegal under the current law. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language)

00:43:58.900 - 00:44:32.300

(speaking in foreign language) The time is running out and unfortunately, the church has been closed for a long time. (speaking in foreign language) - The time is running out,

00:44:32.300 - 00:44:49.040

and unfortunately I will not have the opportunity to tell you about my trip to Western Ukraine. The trip was made on the request of Father Gleb Yakunin to be present at the reopening of the church,

00:44:49.040 - 00:45:03.560

which had been closed in 1968. So for the millennium of Christianity, churches were reopened, but about 2/3 or even 3/4 of them were reopened in Western Ukraine.

00:45:03.560 - 00:45:23.040

(speaking in foreign language) In order to avoid the registration of the Greek Catholic churches. So it's like a countermeasure to the demand

00:45:23.040 - 00:45:34.880

on the part of Greek Catholics. Thank you. (audience applauding) [APPLAUSE]

00:45:34.880 - 00:46:02.320

[SPEAKING RUSSIAN] Our final panelist is Tengiz Goudava. Tengiz served a labor camp sentence from 1978 to 1982 for his participation in the student human rights

00:46:02.320 - 00:46:11.920

movement in the USSR. In 1983, he became a Roman Catholic and began to take an active part in the life of his Catholic parish in Tbilisi,

00:46:11.920 - 00:46:25.080

the capital of Soviet Georgia. He organized a choir, distributed Bibles and other literature, and arranged youth groups. The end of 1984, he helped to organize the Phantom Orchestra,

00:46:25.080 - 00:46:34.980

which consisted of refuseniks and dissidents, both Christians and Jews. The purpose of the group was to draw attention throughout the world to the breach of human rights

00:46:34.980 - 00:46:46.140

in the USSR. In the spring of 1985, Tengiz became involved with the Georgian Helsinki Watch Group, which was monitoring human rights in Soviet Georgia.

00:46:46.140 - 00:47:02.260

A few months later, he was arrested and sentenced to 12 years deprivation of liberty. After his arrest, he wrote these words, and I quote, It is impossible to avoid a confrontation between belief in God and a godless regime

00:47:02.260 - 00:47:24.520

as it is to combine ice and fire. In this I see the cross which is born by every Christian living in an atheistic empire." Under Mikhail Gorbachev in April of 1987, Tengiz was discharged from prison and soon emigrated to the West with his brother, wife, and mother.

00:47:24.520 - 00:47:34.040

And I see his mother standing here with us. Would you please stand? [SPEAKING PORTUGUESE] [APPLAUSE]

00:47:34.040 - 00:47:56.640

Not long after arriving in Austria, his wife Marina bore him a son. Tengiz is presently employed by Radio Free Europe in New York. My topic is recommendation for Creston College activities

00:47:56.640 - 00:48:11.560

in the new environment of glassness in the USSR. First, human rights and religious rights in the USSR. The human rights situation in the USSR today, including religious rights,

00:48:11.560 - 00:48:23.520

is drastically different from the past. I would describe the changes in the Soviet Union as doubly obvious, obviously positive and obviously insufficient.

00:48:23.520 - 00:48:39.240

These two peculiarities of the changes in the USSR determine the need for qualitatively new efforts on the part of Western human rights groups, efforts adequate to the new situation.

00:48:39.240 - 00:48:54.440

What is the nature of these efforts? I believe that the goal of the struggle must be to raise the level of human rights compliance in the USSR to the standards accepted in the democratic world.

00:48:54.440 - 00:49:17.640

This means that our human rights approach must be based on the principle of universal concepts of human rights, not the principle of encouraging and loading concessions on the part of the Soviet authorities. The West must get over all vestiges of double standards and refuse to accept as normal and

00:49:17.640 - 00:49:31.760

positive any phenomena taking place in the USSR that would not have been accepted as normal and positive in the West. Based on universal standards of human rights,

00:49:31.760 - 00:49:47.680

the Soviet Union remains a society of extreme deprivation. Not all political prisoners have been freed, and some new ones have been arrested. As before, there are no institutional guarantees

00:49:47.680 - 00:50:01.880

of fundamental human rights. Political persecution still continues and so on. The global challenge of the current Kremlin leadership in the human rights arena is to prevent the spread

00:50:01.880 - 00:50:14.320

of the influence of the human rights movement in the Soviet society. To this purpose, consistent human rights activists have been attacked in scurrilous newspaper articles

00:50:14.320 - 00:50:29.880

and depicted as extremists who demand the impossible. Tame social forces, often in the guise of informal associations, are offered as an alternative to them.

00:50:29.880 - 00:50:46.120

The limits of the permissible in the USSR are strictly defined by the boundaries of so-called socialism. This is nothing but an a priori denial of political freedom.

00:50:46.120 - 00:51:04.640

This is the cornstone of the human rights conflict today and of national liberation struggles as well. As far as religious freedoms are concerned, the authorities have permitted considerable relaxation

00:51:04.640 - 00:51:21.020

in view of the thousandth anniversary of Christian orthodoxy in Russia and other factors. Even so, these changes fall far short of norms accepted in civilized societies.

00:51:21.020 - 00:51:32.780

There are no guarantees of religious freedom. There is a constitutional right to conduct atheist propaganda, but no similar right to religious propaganda.

00:51:33.740 - 00:51:46.760

Discrimination based on creed is still strong, and believers still face the same obstacles in career advancement and are hindered from playing an active role in public life.

00:51:46.760 - 00:52:01.000

Churches and seminaries remain thoroughly infiltrated by the KGB and still regulated by departments on religious affairs which are antagonistic to religious interests.

00:52:02.420 - 00:52:17.260

the Soviet state has not abandoned its posture of militant atheism, and atheists hold a monopoly on education, mass media, the arts, civil holidays, public symbols, et cetera.

00:52:17.260 - 00:52:36.500

Religious life in the USSR remains shut off and isolated from worldwide religious processes. There is a paucity of exchange and contacts in this area. there are no missionary or apostolic activities.

00:52:36.500 - 00:52:48.900

I think the time has come to begin actively dealing with these shortcomings. Before us is virtually hidden empire, a new Rome which must be Christianized

00:52:48.900 - 00:53:07.120

as our religious duty compels us to do. Second, the dissemination of Bibles and religious literature. the distribution of Bibles and other religious literature has been and remains a top priority necessity.

00:53:07.120 - 00:53:21.020

The number of Bibles in the USSR, despite some improvements in this regard, remains highly inadequate. Not hundreds or thousands,

00:53:21.020 - 00:53:35.460

but millions of copies are needed to even begin to make up for the tremendous shortage of Bibles in the country. It is very important also to supply non-Russian nations

00:53:35.460 - 00:53:48.320

and nationalities in the USSR with Bibles translated into their native languages. I realize that Keston College does not have the necessary resources to do this.

00:53:48.320 - 00:54:02.320

That is why it is crucial to mobilize other organizations, churches, and communities in the West to involve the entire Christian world in this truly gigantic work

00:54:02.320 - 00:54:19.400

to eliminate religious illiteracy in the USSR. I believe that it is possible to make contacts with Soviet scholars for the translating work. It is of great importance to adapt these editions

00:54:19.400 - 00:54:34.140

of the Bible for Soviet people, especially for the young generation. The biblical text must be supplemented with detailed and easy to understand annotations

00:54:34.140 - 00:54:50.220

with an emphasis of evidence supporting the veracity of the text to counteract the decades of atheistic brainwashing in the USSR. No less important is the distribution

00:54:50.220 - 00:55:05.560

of Catholicisms or prayer books. Making Catholicisms available to the population is the most vital step that can break the ice of atheistic ignorance in the Soviet Union.

00:55:05.560 - 00:55:23.640

All kinds of religious literature are needed in the USSR. Where a word still exists in this field. However, I would single out the most important categories of literature.

00:55:23.640 - 00:55:38.860

Literature on religious history, the history of the church, the schism, reformation, early Christianity, and church legend. Particularly important is the history of the church,

00:55:38.860 - 00:55:51.620

of the particular people that is being addressed, its struggle for faith, the lives of its saints and martyrs and its religious figures.

00:55:51.620 - 00:56:10.040

In Georgia, for example, there is a lively interest in the history of Catholicism in the land and attempts to unite with Rome, et cetera. Very important too is the recent and modern history

00:56:10.040 - 00:56:24.740

of the Christian church in the USSR as a whole and in each particular national group, the history of the Bolshevik suppression of the church and of modern religious descent.

00:56:24.740 - 00:56:40.200

Religious philosophical literature, the works of church fathers, thinkers, such as Saint Augustine, Saint Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, et cetera.

00:56:40.200 - 00:56:55.000

It is important to introduce Soviet people to contemporary religious philosophical thought, to the most prominent modern authors, to the encyclicals of the popes, to Western periodicals.

00:56:55.000 - 00:57:10.340

Religious thought must be shown as part of the foundations of Western philosophy in general, which serves as the basis for social and political doctrines.

00:57:10.340 - 00:57:30.500

In the case of Georgia, literature on Christian democratic political thought is very important since the forces of opposition are inspired by these ideas. Children's literature, colorful illustrated Bibles

00:57:30.500 - 00:57:44.200

for children and religious education manuals for parents. Books on the Christian family and Christian marriage are urgently needed too. Literature on religious art,

00:57:44.200 - 00:58:01.100

on the relationship between faith and beauty, about spiritual creativity in human life, books on architecture, painting, sculpture, church music, biographies of great figures of religious art,

00:58:01.100 - 00:58:19.280

albums of religious art and sheet music and need as needed as well. Third, the distribution of religious accessories. It is also crucial to distribute among believers such religious accessories as rosaries, crosses,

00:58:19.280 - 00:58:39.760

icons, church calendars, pictures, slides, buttons, postcards, souvenirs having to do with the holy places, Christmas and Easter gifts. the distribution of videos. Taking into account the role of video technology

00:58:39.760 - 00:58:51.440

in the modern world, it seems very important to distribute religious videos among with literature in the USSR. Believers in the Soviet Union have a great deal

00:58:51.440 - 00:59:09.120

of interest in motion pictures of biblical themes or religious topics of a more general nature. Documentaries on religious subjects are no less important, as are chronicles of various religious events,

00:59:09.120 - 00:59:25.520

videotape recording of sermons, and apostolic addresses. Amateur films are made by religious communities, particularly youth groups, are specifically geared to the Soviet viewer,

00:59:25.520 - 00:59:38.020

would also be very useful. Films about church-state relations in the West and about the functioning of democratic and especially Christian democratic political systems

00:59:38.020 - 00:59:50.160

would be important too. There is also a need for films about emigre centers of Russian spirituality and that of Georgians, Armenians, and other national groups,

00:59:50.160 - 01:00:07.240

about the life of churches in exile. A very special place must be accorded to religious films for children, including animated films. Exchanges and religious education.

01:00:07.240 - 01:00:23.980

The final act of the Helsinki Accords, reaffirmed at the recent Vienna conference, speaks in unambiguous terms of exchange of people and ideas. Unfortunately, the West has not pressed for compliance

01:00:23.980 - 01:00:37.380

with this principle showing unjustifiable deference towards Soviet prohibitions. Today it is time to get serious about implementing this principle

01:00:37.380 - 01:00:49.260

and if Soviet authorities resort to their old prohibitive practices once again to respond accordingly with a campaign to denounce such actions.

01:00:52.180 - 01:01:03.680

The recommendations listed here, of course, are certainly not exhaustive. I also realize that vast material resources are needed to carry them out.

01:01:03.680 - 01:01:18.460

Yet, I am convinced that this is our task today, a task of tremendous importance to provide moral and spiritual nourishment to the starved peoples of the Soviet Union.

01:01:18.460 - 01:01:40.740

By doing that, we shall tear out the sting of the evil that has threatened and still threatens the world and that is sustained by godlessness and lack of faith. A fresh breeze of freedom has blown in the Soviet Union.

01:01:40.740 - 01:01:57.180

Our dedicated struggle of many years has borne fruit. The evil empire has started to fall and to retreat. Our goal is not to miss the moment, to take advantage of it,

01:01:57.180 - 01:02:14.500

to start a great crusade for faith. Thank you. (audience applauding) - Thank you, Cenk, for your very specific remarks

01:02:14.500 - 01:02:27.100

about how we might help our brothers and sisters in the Soviet Union. I'd also like to thank you for traveling all the way from New York to be with us at this forum this morning.

01:02:27.100 - 01:02:40.140

As we have about 10 or 15 minutes left before lunch, and it will take us a while to meander downstairs to the fellowship hall, I thought at this time we could take a few questions.

01:02:40.140 - 01:02:55.940

And the way we will proceed will be as follows. We will have the question. Irina will then translate the question into Russian. And one of the panelists will answer the question.

01:02:55.940 - 01:03:09.660

And she will, in turn, translate it into English. Since this is a lengthy procedure, I would ask that the question be shot to the point so that we can entertain perhaps two or three questions

01:03:09.660 - 01:03:20.360

at this time. Paul. How valuable are videos in English? Where can they be adapted to the European format?

01:03:20.360 - 01:03:53.080

[ Foreign Language Spoken ] Of course. [ Foreign Language Spoken ] There is a specialist who was doing the work

01:03:53.080 - 01:04:12.600

of translating the cassettes into Russian. And these cassettes are widely used in Russia now. His name is Jimmy Swaggart. [ Foreign Language ]

01:04:12.600 - 01:04:24.080

The main thing is getting them to Russia, getting the cassettes to Russia. [ Foreign Language ] >> So it's your job.

01:04:24.080 - 01:04:34.680

>> Yes, all the way in the back, sir. [ Inaudible Remark ] >> We can take both of you. Say, you sir first with the red tie.

01:04:34.680 - 01:05:06.680

[ Inaudible ] >> Okay, the question, just one question please. The question was, is directed to Boris Pichotkin regarding his statement of the need for copiers

01:05:06.680 - 01:05:16.940

in the Soviet Union. The question is, is it illegal to send copying machines to the Soviet Union? Before Boris speaks, we'd like to ask Mike Rowe.

01:05:16.940 - 01:05:54.420

Mike, would you come up and perhaps provide some perspective on this important question? And after Mike speaks, we'll ask Boris to-- [ Inaudible ]

01:05:54.420 - 01:06:13.020

Thank you, sir. Yeah, the legal situation as far as printing and duplicating equipment is concerned is very ambiguous at the moment, partly because the regulations concerning it are unpublished.

01:06:13.020 - 01:06:28.280

So in a situation where, you know, the public stance of the Soviet authorities is that if something is not specifically forbidden, then it's allowed. If something is secretly forbidden, how are you

01:06:28.280 - 01:06:43.420

to know that it's forbidden? And I think we must try to do these things publicly. People are trying to do it publicly. Someone is trying to take in an offset duplicator

01:06:43.420 - 01:06:55.060

to Alexander Agorodnikov, the Orthodox Christian in Moscow next month from England. He's in touch with the Soviet trade delegation about how he should do it.

01:06:55.060 - 01:07:11.860

He has the consent of Alexander Agorodnikov. We will see what happens. But for private, non-profit use, there seems to be no publicly stated Soviet objection

01:07:11.860 - 01:07:28.800

to the private possession of this equipment. How it will work out in practice is a different question. But people, for example, with computer equipment and attached printers have been able to use them openly

01:07:28.800 - 01:08:10.780

in the Soviet Union to produce and reproduce literature. [INAUDIBLE] [ Foreign Language ] All I can say we need the copy machines and there are people who will work with them

01:08:10.780 - 01:09:14.620

So we have to get them and there are people who will risk their lives to work on them We just don't have the money to buy them [ Inaudible ] [ Inaudible ]

01:09:14.620 - 01:09:39.700

[ Inaudible ] >> If I understood the question, you were saying that-- in fact, could you just stand up in one short sentence and ask the question?

01:09:40.620 - 01:10:15.260

[ Inaudible Remark ] >> This is true. (audience laughing) - Yes it is, yes it is.

01:10:15.260 - 01:10:29.120

- I have a question, Dr. Hamlin, please. (man speaking off mic) A lot of us are keen to help get videos in, but it's a different video system.

01:10:29.120 - 01:10:43.020

So does anyone know how we can get them translated, not just from English to Russian, but from NSTC to Soviet? Yeah. This is no problem, because the Soviet system is basically

01:10:43.020 - 01:10:55.980

the same as the French system. If they're converted to the French system, and the equipment is readily available to do that, to convert from one system to the other,

01:10:55.980 - 01:11:04.900

then the tapes will be usable in the Soviet Union. But it is important to know that-- Yeah. --relatives post videos from Britain to here

01:11:04.900 - 01:11:15.720

and how it works. A lot of us don't realize it. Yeah. And of course, I mean, it is-- although they're yet less

01:11:15.720 - 01:11:31.240

useful in the Soviet Union, it is possible to send Western video equipment. they need to adjust their TVs to show the picture, of course. But there are lots of people who know

01:11:31.240 - 01:11:42.680

how to fiddle with TVs in the Soviet Union, because the service industry is so inadequate. They work out how to do it themselves. Perhaps we'll have one more question.

01:11:42.680 - 01:12:06.380

Yes, ma'am. [ Inaudible ] >> Okay, the question is, I am under the impression that Christians in the Soviet Union are relatively poor.

01:12:06.380 - 01:12:41.260

How are they able to manage to purchase such items as televisions and a video equipment? [ Foreign Language ] It is practically impossible to buy a VCI in Russia,

01:12:41.260 - 01:12:59.020

and they had to get all the VCIs sent from the West. But the TVs are available. (speaking in foreign language) It's just we have to make sure that the VCIs

01:12:59.020 - 01:13:10.120

get to the right people, not to the KGB and black marketeers. One more question. Yes, Pastor Creighton, please.

01:13:10.120 - 01:14:06.880

[man speaking off mic] [ Inaudible ] [inaudible] >> Thank you, Pastor.

01:14:06.880 - 01:14:29.420

The question, I think, is a very good one, and that is when we're talking about helping our brothers and sisters, for the most part, we're talking in the abstract. Pastor Creighton's point about-- is asking the question, can the addresses of specific churches in the Soviet Union that are interested in fellowship with churches

01:14:29.420 - 01:14:42.320

in the West be obtained, the information disseminated, so that in fact contact can be initiated and a fellowship established. And I think Mike Rowe will be able to answer this question

01:14:42.320 - 01:14:52.160

at this time. Mike? Maybe our friends who've come from the Soviet Union would like to answer as well.

01:14:52.160 - 01:15:03.880

This has been done, particularly in Scandinavia, where of course the possibilities for visits are much easier. It's a short distance.

01:15:03.880 - 01:15:17.080

It doesn't cost so much to visit the Soviet Union. And there have been instances where Christians have come from areas of the Soviet Union that are not accessible to tourists to meet,

01:15:17.080 - 01:15:31.120

for example, Swedish Christian tour groups in the tourist cities and to further their links in that way. So although a visit, actually, to the home church is impossible, the members come to meet them.

01:15:31.120 - 01:15:50.400

This is something that we certainly hope can be promoted. And by supplying addresses for correspondence of former prisoners, for example, churches that we know would be willing to receive Bibles

01:15:50.400 - 01:16:13.160

through the post, that this kind of relationship can be built up, a one-to-one between a church in the Soviet Union and a church in the West. And it is indeed very important. But still, because of the situation, there are many difficulties and pitfalls on the

01:16:13.160 - 01:16:42.480

way. it requires a lot of hard work and enthusiasm in the West to work through the difficulties that may be encountered. It is true that it is hard to keep close contact,

01:16:42.480 - 01:17:01.280

because say I send three letters to Russia and only one is received there. [ Foreign Language ] So again here there is a question

01:17:01.280 - 01:17:13.320

that the Soviet authorities should follow their own laws and allow the postal correspondence to reach its destination. that they shouldn't steal it, that they shouldn't detain it.

01:17:13.320 - 01:17:31.120

[ Foreign Language Spoken ] And when I sent letters from Sweden, they were, they did not get to the addresses. [ Foreign Language Spoken ]

01:17:31.120 - 01:17:43.240

>> In the monograph that each of you have in the red folder, we have tried to prepare some information, and very practical information about establishing contact with Christians in the Soviet Union.

01:17:43.240 - 01:17:55.760

And we have listed a number of organizations that are involved in that very endeavor. I'd like to acknowledge at this time Paul Kremple of the Persecuted Church Commission, who

01:17:55.760 - 01:18:07.000

has been involved in a sister church program for quite some time. He's also with his wife, Dottie. Would you please stand up, Paul and Dottie?

01:18:07.000 - 01:18:17.300

You might-- [APPLAUSE] You might want to talk with Paul and Dottie about their experience in that area.

01:18:17.300 - 01:18:30.140

Well, it is very close to 1 o'clock. I know you're all hungry. And we do certainly need a break at this time. Before we do close, I would like to ask Charles Whittle,

01:18:30.140 - 01:18:39.720

who is the president and chairman of the board of Keston USA, to come to the mic and just to say a few words to close our morning session. Chuck?

01:18:39.720 - 01:19:04.220

We're overwhelmed that the room was full and that we had to open it up and make more room. We hope that this session will be a session that will help each of us to be more active.

01:19:04.220 - 01:19:16.820

The theme is redeeming the time. And what we would have that mean is doing what we can do while we can do it. I want to share with you one little thing that

01:19:16.820 - 01:19:27.520

relates to, I think, the last question about the sister congregations. I'm a member of a small church in Natick that has supported and encouraged

01:19:27.520 - 01:19:52.900

for a number of years a non-denominational radio broadcaster who broadcast to the Soviet Union. In his 80th year, this past November, he went back home. And this was in Slovyansk. He went for a visit with his sisters and brother who still live in that area. Just before he left Canada, which is where he lives, he sent me

01:19:52.900 - 01:20:09.200

a little note and he had a cutout of a name and address. And it was my name and address. And he said, I'm carrying these with me to the Soviet Union to let people know they can write you and get a correspondence course and a Bible.

01:20:09.200 - 01:20:23.520

Well, now I can tell you where he went in the Soviet Union by the return addresses on the letters that we've received. But he brought back with him a list of people who had requested Bibles and correspondence

01:20:23.520 - 01:20:33.500

courses. And I raised the question in our little congregation of who would like to help. Well, all of three came up to say they would

01:20:33.500 - 01:20:50.260

like to assist with this. So we dubbed ourselves the Bolshoi Bible Brigade and have since gotten out about 150 Bibles and correspondence courses to the Slovyansk area, to Makievka,

01:20:50.260 - 01:21:01.100

to Kramatorsk, Kiev. But one of the more interesting letters came from Moscow. A young man wrote and asked--

01:21:01.100 - 01:21:12.820

he sent 18 individual names in it. And I guess he is really trying to live by the spirit of the current postal regulations that say you can get two packages a year,

01:21:12.820 - 01:21:26.740

and you can't have more than two of the same item in the package. So here are 18 names to which we're to send, interestingly, correspondence. Of course, he didn't request Bibles.

01:21:26.740 - 01:21:37.620

This can be done by a group of four, working one night a week sometimes, every other week sometimes. It's not laborious.

01:21:37.620 - 01:21:49.580

It's not terribly costly. And it does bring a return. We've gotten multiple letters back to say to us, don't think that the books that you're sending over here

01:21:49.580 - 01:22:00.700

are so much dead weight that are lying idle. They're being used. Even a correspondence course, they will separate into its lessons to pass out

01:22:00.700 - 01:22:12.620

to different people just so that they can spread the thought of God to people who are not yet believers. We can do much today.

01:22:12.620 - 01:22:26.580

And in the spirit of redeeming the times, we would encourage you at this lunchtime to share with your neighbors that you're dining with, what you're doing, what you want to do.

01:22:26.580 - 01:22:34.860

Somebody might say, well, here, you can do this. Let's all try to redeem the time for the people of the Soviet Union. Thank you.

01:22:34.860 - 01:22:50.540

[APPLAUSE] So the fellowship hall is immediately downstairs. There are restrooms on this floor, And there are also restrooms downstairs

01:22:50.540 - 01:23:11.460

as you come into the fellowship hall. So we'll just all proceed down there now at this time. So we'll be back here then at 145 this afternoon, 145. (crowd chattering)

01:23:11.460 - 01:23:22.440

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