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If he realizes how important your story is, absolutely. We're just rolling color bars right now. I'm going to tell you the rules. Okay. Don't burp.

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[Laughter] The rules are that you're in charge. Okay? If we get to a question you don't want to answer, just say, "Let's go to the next one." Or, "I don't know. Let's move on."

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Any way you want to do it. I can't think of anything I wouldn't answer. Okay. Right.

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I'm rolling. Okay. Have fun. I'm Deanie Parrish.

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Today we're interviewing Janet Lee Simpson. She was a WASP class 44 W6. We are in her home at Pointe Verde Beach, Florida. Today is the 22nd of April, 2003.

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The videographer is Nancy Parrish. Now, Janet, we're going to start from the time you were born. If you would just start off by telling me your full name and when and where you were born. Well, it's Janet Lee Hutchinson Simpson.

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I was born in Baltimore, Maryland in 1925. Okay. Tell me about your mother. My mother, the angel. She was a perfect mother, a perfect wife, and we did everything as a family.

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We never did anything alone. She was just a wonderful person. Where was your mother from? We were all from Maryland.

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Tell me about your brothers and sisters. I only have one sister, and she's 18 months older than I am. She's very outgoing, and she is quite a talker. We didn't get along too well when we were teenagers.

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She stole my boyfriends. But since then, we've just got along absolutely beautifully. In college, I think she majored in men, and I was the athletic type. I just loved all kinds of athletics, and I was good at it.

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So we kind of led--she graduated from college, and I just graduated from high school and went right into the service. Tell me about your father when you were very small. When you were born, what was your father doing?

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I know he had one job at a bank, and that's all very vague. I do know that when they were first married, I think my sister and I were very, very young, like four or five or something, and he went to the racetrack and parlayed every race. He won every race and came home with $7,000, threw it all over the room,

00:04:00.000 - 00:04:31.000

and then he used that money to take flying lessons, and then he eventually owned the airport, and he started taking passengers up to fly over the city. He didn't do too well because they were afraid. Flying was scary to most people.

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So he had my sister and I sit on their laps, and it made him feel a little more comfortable and brave. But then he was always getting these ideas, and so he went out and hired some chorus girls, and from then on, business boomed. He was very successful.

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So he got other planes, and my sister would remember where it was, where the airport was, but I can't. I don't know. Abington or—I can't remember. What did your mother think about his flying?

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Anything he would do was perfect. No matter what it was, it was perfect. When you were born and growing up, before you started school, where did you live? Did you live in town or out of town?

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I know we lived in Abington, but I don't remember much about it, except my sister was run over by a truck, and she was in the hospital for quite some time. That's about—oh, and I do remember, that's the first thing I remember, in fact. I was five, and I fell down the stairs.

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But anything about Abington, I can't remember anything else. Were those stairs like a two-story house or outside? Two-story house. Where did you start school, Janet?

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In Maryland, Baltimore, kindergarten. And how far did you live? Did you walk or did you ride a bike? It was right in the next block. Was it a public school?

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Yes, a public school. And your sister was already in school? Yes, she was a couple of grades—being she was 18 months older than I. When you were in elementary school, do you recall any of your teachers?

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No. We were traveling. We were flying most of the time. It's written up in the papers that we had a classroom in the sky. My mother taught us, and we used the Calvert Correspondence course.

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So we were in and out of many schools. When we finally went back to school, we skipped a grade. My mother was a good teacher. Why were you flying to different places?

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Well, my father was an entrepreneur, a promoter. And our first flight was through the United States. And President Hoover saw us off. We visited his office, and we had a document of goodwill

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that we were taking around to the then 48 states to be signed from the governor of every state, which we completed. And another one of my father's ideas was to get something that would attract attention. We started out that way, but it didn't end up that way.

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So we bought a lion from Frank Buck. Frank Buck would bring back animals from Africa. He was very famous. We had four lions, but one at a time.

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Two were wonderful, and the other two were mean. But anyway, so we took the lion with us, and we named her Governor because she shook paws with every governor there was. And seeing they were with little children, they weren't afraid of her.

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And she was quite small at the time. So that was the first trip. How old were you at that time? That was in '31. I was six.

00:09:22.000 - 00:09:41.000

And what kind of airplane was it? A Stinson. And she had a cage in the back of my seat. And one thing I remember very distinctly, we were flying over the Rocky Mountains,

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and we were low on gas, and there was a snowstorm, and we had a forced landing. And it was in five feet of snow, so the minute we hit, we just went over on our backs. And in doing so, my head went back and hit the cage. So we got out and sat on the wings for approximately five hours waiting to be rescued.

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And the lion knew I was hurt, and she didn't do it the whole five hours, but a good part of it. I had this knot on my head that was really big, and she'd lick it off. It was very touching. So anyway, this gentleman came down the mountainside with a sleigh pulled by horses,

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and he took us to this town by the name of Kitchener, Columbia. It was about two blocks along with a two-story hotel, and there must have been a bar someplace because of what happened. A little later, we took the lion in the hotel, and this owner or manager said,

00:11:09.000 - 00:11:28.000

"You can have two rooms, but you can't take that lion upstairs." So we said, "Well, the lion sleeps with us. I don't care. You can't take the lion upstairs." So we tied him to the kitchen stove--her to the kitchen stove,

00:11:28.000 - 00:11:53.000

and we all went to bed and shut our doors. And during the night, she didn't like that at all, so she chewed her leash and broke it. And she came upstairs, and our doors were closed. So she went in the only door that was open and got in bed like she always does,

00:11:53.000 - 00:12:17.000

like a dog or a cat goes under the covers. So this man comes in, and he was drunk. And he wore--we later found out--he wore like Scrooge or something, just a long white nightgown and a cap with a tail on it.

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So he got in bed and didn't see the lion. Now, how--I didn't see it, but this is what I was told. And so he rolled over, and I did hear the scream, this blood-curdling scream. And the door opened, and we got up and looked down,

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and there was this man running down the stairs as fast as he could out into the snow in his nightgown, and he was screaming, "There's an elephant in my bed!" And we never saw him since. I guess he came back, but we left the next day.

00:13:00.000 - 00:13:22.000

But--so there must have been a bar someplace in that little town. So we had the plane repaired, and we moved on and finished that scroll. Did your dad fly that plane out? Yes.

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To tell you the truth, I really can't remember. I think they had to take it out. I think they did. And then you went back to your home once that trip was finished. Oh, yes, after we finished the whole trip.

00:13:39.000 - 00:13:56.000

What happened to all those proclamations that you got signed? Do you have any idea? I don't remember. I don't--it's probably in his book. He wrote two books, and they were very successful.

00:13:56.000 - 00:14:22.000

Could you tell me about your grandparents? Not too much. My mother's mother was a character. She was married three times to wealthy men and went around the world with each one of them. And she always dressed--well, and she--I don't know.

00:14:22.000 - 00:14:47.000

She had a British accent, but I don't think it was real. And she always had one of these long cigarettes, you know, the holder, fancy holder. And she played the piano and sang, and she always said--she was very outspoken. If she didn't like you, you knew it.

00:14:47.000 - 00:15:10.000

And I first--I guess you can't say that on camera. Well, I'll say the initials. I introduced her to my then-fiancé. She came up and gave him, "How are you, son of a--" S-O-B. You know, they were first words out of her mouth.

00:15:10.000 - 00:15:31.000

That's the kind of a person she was. And she had a--oh, this will kill you. She had a home on the beach, and we used to spend our summers there and have a ball with neighbors our age.

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Skinny dip and everything. So when she went swimming with us--I can't explain this. She would tell us stories, and she--I don't know. She'd take it and name it.

00:15:49.000 - 00:16:03.000

Take it out and name it, and then she'd tell you a story about it. It was fascinating. And she'd put it back in, take the other one out, it had a different name, and then she'd tell you a story about that.

00:16:03.000 - 00:16:16.000

She was a real character. She was my mother's mother. Did she love children? Yes.

00:16:16.000 - 00:16:43.000

And my sister had a--my mother had a sister, and she was--they were quite close. She loved horses. In fact, she gave me my first horse. She gave me my first racehorse.

00:16:43.000 - 00:16:58.000

And she was--we played golf, and she'd beat me. And finally, as I grew older, I finally could beat her. That was a great thing. And we'd bowl a lot.

00:16:58.000 - 00:17:17.000

And then they had pinboys. So after the place closed, I never knew how to do that whistle. And the pinboys would come rummaging, and she'd shoot crap all night with them down on her knees. My mother was not like that.

00:17:17.000 - 00:17:34.000

But I loved my aunt, and she was wonderful. Did you know that your grandfather, your mother's father, did you ever get to know him? Not really, no. And then your grandparents on your father's side.

00:17:34.000 - 00:17:48.000

She was different. She did have the British accent. Her husband--she was the boss. Her husband was very meek.

00:17:48.000 - 00:18:11.000

And she'd live with us a while when we were settled, which wasn't often. And then she would live with my father's brother. And Leonard was his name. And one time when she lived with--she was huge.

00:18:11.000 - 00:18:27.000

She had to weigh somewhere between 250 and 300. She was huge. And one time she got stuck in the bathtub with the door locked, and we had to call the fire department to get her out.

00:18:27.000 - 00:18:43.000

That I remember. But she was always pretty quiet. She was just almost the opposite of my other grandmother. Did those grandparents live near you?

00:18:43.000 - 00:19:06.000

Well, Bebe, my mother's mother, Big Blanche, lived in Rivera Beach. It was about an hour, an hour and a half from where we lived. And Grandmother Hutchinson lived toward town. It would take about 20, 30 minutes to get there.

00:19:06.000 - 00:19:18.000

They lived in a row house. They never had much money. And Daddy's brother was very--oh, everybody loved him. He was very sweet.

00:19:18.000 - 00:19:38.000

My father was the boss. And he worked for--he never drank, but he was a liquor salesman. When you were growing up, tell me what a Christmas was like in your home. Great.

00:19:38.000 - 00:20:00.000

I think the best Christmas I ever had was getting a red two-wheel bike, a '28. I think that was great. That's what I remember the best. And my sister got a blue one.

00:20:00.000 - 00:20:17.000

Do you remember decorating the tree? Did you do that, or did your parents do that? Oh, boy, that's a long time ago. I'd have to ask my sister.

00:20:17.000 - 00:20:36.000

I can't remember. For Christmas, would your grandparents come over, or would you go to their house? Was it a family affair? No, it was just us as far as I can remember.

00:20:36.000 - 00:21:00.000

And as far as celebrating, for example, to go to celebrations of Christmas, did your family-- We'd go to their house, their houses, yeah. As far as going to, say, a pageant or a church service, did your family participate in any of that kind of celebration?

00:21:00.000 - 00:21:15.000

Yeah. As I got older, I sang in the choir, and so I was at church Sundays and Wednesdays for rehearsal. My mother was quite religious, so was my sister.

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My father, I wouldn't say he was. What church was that? Presbyterian. I was buried also in the Presbyterian church.

00:21:30.000 - 00:21:47.000

But I loved the choir and my friends. We were all very close. Did you make lasting friends with any of the elementary school children? Have those remained friends?

00:21:47.000 - 00:22:06.000

I remember being in junior high in California. We lived in Hollywood. I can remember two girls that I was very close to, and I remember what they looked like and their names,

00:22:06.000 - 00:22:26.000

but they're the only two I remember. And we used to have so much fun. I was born to be crazy about horses, and we used to make horses and make the stories and wear the cowboy hats.

00:22:26.000 - 00:22:46.000

And we'd make the horse's head, and then we used a bamboo pole between our legs and the reins and gallop every place. Her name was Betty Hill, and the other girl was Margaret something.

00:22:46.000 - 00:23:12.000

That's all I remember. How old were you when you moved to California, and why did you move? We lived there from when I was nine to about 12. I wish I could remember why.

00:23:12.000 - 00:23:29.000

We saw very little of my father. He was in the East trying to promote something else, and we didn't have very much money at the time. I can remember eating hot dogs an awful lot,

00:23:29.000 - 00:23:54.000

and I think we were evicted from about three places. But my father made up for it when he came back, and we had a dog named--it was a ceiling ham, and he was a wonderful dog.

00:23:54.000 - 00:24:08.000

But we were out playing ball, and I threw the ball, and it went in the street, and he got run over. Do you remember how you got to California? Did you fly out to California when you moved?

00:24:08.000 - 00:24:21.000

Or did you move all of your furniture? No, we didn't move furniture. Did you have relatives out there? No.

00:24:21.000 - 00:24:48.000

And this was after your dad had-- After we had done that first trip, and--I can't remember going out. I don't know whether--we must have driven.

00:24:48.000 - 00:25:12.000

I don't know. And when you were 12, then, did you move again? I went to junior high, LeConte Junior High. Oh, golly.

00:25:12.000 - 00:25:35.000

How often would your dad get to come home? Not often. He kept in touch, and I do remember when he would come home, they'd both hug and cry, and it was real emotional.

00:25:35.000 - 00:25:52.000

Right. So your family stayed close. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. When you were growing up, who were your role models? I don't remember that either.

00:25:52.000 - 00:26:14.000

I guess Amelia Earhart. Then that trip through the States was in '31, and then we had another, the big, big trip in '32. Okay. Where did you go on that trip?

00:26:14.000 - 00:26:36.000

We went to Greenland, Iceland, Labrador. We're the first family ever to fly to Greenland. And what was the purpose of that trip? Another squirrel.

00:26:36.000 - 00:27:07.000

Were you living in California when you made that trip? All I can remember is that President Roosevelt was the first one to sign that document, and we flew in the Sikorsky Amphibian, and we had a crew. Daddy was the pilot, and we had a co-pilot and a radio operator and a cameraman.

00:27:07.000 - 00:27:16.000

No lions. And you and your sis and your mom? Yes. And we went to radio school.

00:27:16.000 - 00:27:43.000

I was 14 when I got my Morse code license, and we went to language school to learn how to say the message that was on the scroll, the goodwill message written in 36 different languages. So we had to learn that message and memorize it.

00:27:43.000 - 00:28:00.000

It was a 50-word message in English, German, Italian, Spanish, and French. That's what we went to language school for. And you were 14 when you went on that trip? Yes, and sis was 16.

00:28:00.000 - 00:28:26.000

What's the most memorable thing that you remember about that trip? Well, we almost died. It was a miracle that we were saved. We were flying from Juliana to Amasillac, and we went into a snowstorm,

00:28:26.000 - 00:28:52.000

and there were icebergs everywhere, and we thought we were lost. And the crew--Daddy didn't want to land. He wanted to go on and take a chance. We later found out we were only 38 miles from our destination, which is pretty close.

00:28:52.000 - 00:29:05.000

But they forced him to land. They threatened him. So he landed underneath--all the waves were so high from the storm. It's a miracle we stayed upright.

00:29:05.000 - 00:29:27.000

And we sent an SOS, and they said the quickest they could get there would be two hours. So we just waited. In doing so, a part, a piece, not the whole thing, of an iceberg hit us

00:29:27.000 - 00:29:54.000

and just put a hole through the plane, and we started taking in water. So we did have enough gas to taxi, and we saw this island off in the distance, so we taxied toward the island. And the island--there was no vegetation whatsoever.

00:29:54.000 - 00:30:12.000

It was just big boulders, nothing but big boulders. So we got up to it, and there was no way we could pull the plane up to get it out of the water because they were all boulders. It was impossible.

00:30:12.000 - 00:30:32.000

So we got out. Somehow we got out, and we took everything we would need, which also included enough food for a week, as we were taking a 38-pound lamb as a present from one governor to another.

00:30:32.000 - 00:30:52.000

And, of course, he never got it. We ate it, and we had the sterno or whatever you call it. And so we found two great big boulders, and then we built a fire, and we all slept together.

00:30:52.000 - 00:31:16.000

We had special clothing. We weren't freezing. And we slept together, and then the adults would take two-hour watches. And the first night, an iceberg came in, and you know how they turn over,

00:31:16.000 - 00:31:43.000

and what was left of the plane, it turned over on top of the plane so that just the wings would float. So we went down and tore off the fabric and used that as a roof. And we would set off unnecessary flares

00:31:43.000 - 00:32:02.000

because the Northern Lights would shine on an iceberg and it would make them look like a boat, you know. So we wasted flares. I believe it was the second night--yes, it was the second night--

00:32:02.000 - 00:32:29.000

that the Scottish fishing trawler came, and it was so foggy, so they used their code light, and they said, "If you're people looking for the Hutchinsons," because we were--Lowell Thomas had announced it all over the world

00:32:29.000 - 00:32:52.000

that they thought we were lost for good. "If you're people looking for the Hutchinsons, leave your one fire burning. But if you're the Hutchinsons, light another fire." So we were excited, and we could barely see through the fog,

00:32:52.000 - 00:33:11.000

so we didn't understand it. And we just left the one fire burning. So they started to go away, and then we really got panicky, and we lit a second fire just out of sheer--

00:33:11.000 - 00:33:28.000

not because we understood their message, because we didn't. So they couldn't come in. The fog was too bad. So they anchored and waited till the next morning, and then they sent a dinghy in and made a couple trips,

00:33:28.000 - 00:33:52.000

and we went on a five-day trip. His name was Captain Watson. He was real neat. And I got seasick, and he gave me my first shot of whiskey, and it really did settle my stomach.

00:33:52.000 - 00:34:11.000

So then when we got to Scotland, Aberdeen, we got the biggest welcome you could ever imagine. And we recently went back there. They were celebrating the 70th anniversary of our rescue.

00:34:11.000 - 00:34:23.000

So we got a free trip, and I think it was 9 or 11 days. And oh, gosh, they just-- you would have thought we were kings and queens. It was marvelous.

00:34:23.000 - 00:34:44.000

My sister and I and my son met us there, and we just had a ball, it was really. And we were on video and reporters lined up. And it was all in the museum.

00:34:44.000 - 00:35:01.000

And when we first-- there's a picture that I have of us, which I'll show you. It was on the cover of Life magazine and won the picture of the year.

00:35:01.000 - 00:35:17.000

It's my mother, my sister, and myself, a silhouette looking down at the iceberg and our plane squished. Can we hold it, Nancy?

00:35:17.000 - 00:35:31.000

Show them the pictures they're about. Well, this picture on the left here is a silhouette of my mother, my sister, and myself on top of this huge boulder

00:35:31.000 - 00:35:48.000

looking down on the wrecked airplane and the icebergs. This picture won the picture of the year on the cover of Life magazine, which our cameraman took all the credit for.

00:35:48.000 - 00:36:05.000

This is--I have to put my glasses on-- the family circle, and I'm on the cover with Gary Cooper, whom I spent a great deal of time on his lap

00:36:05.000 - 00:36:15.000

because we both would tell horse stories. He was crazy about horses. And he was very shy. You don't think of him.

00:36:15.000 - 00:36:27.000

And a lot of times he had trouble with his lines. And believe it or not, I used to help him. How old were you there? I was 12.

00:36:27.000 - 00:36:37.000

Was that a movie? We did--I think it was "The Prince Chap" or "Daddy Long Legs." I don't know which it was

00:36:37.000 - 00:36:49.000

'cause I was also with Leslie Howard, and I get the different things mixed up. And Richard Bartholomews and Freddie Bartholomew.

00:36:49.000 - 00:37:01.000

We did "Peter Pan," and it was on Lux-- all of these were on Lux Radio Theater because the director also directed

00:37:01.000 - 00:37:14.000

our family program for two years of our adventures. And so he got to like me, and we then moved to Hollywood,

00:37:14.000 - 00:37:26.000

so he would call me whenever he had a part to be on Lux Radio Theater, and they would pay my way to New York for a week of rehearsing.

00:37:26.000 - 00:37:42.000

And then I got $500, which in those days was, you know. So we did "Peter Pan," and we fell in love at first sight in real life.

00:37:42.000 - 00:37:54.000

And I mean, they call that puppy love, something I've never had since. And that was my first kiss. We managed to sneak a kiss.

00:37:54.000 - 00:38:05.000

And that was with whom? Freddie Bartholomew. And he played in lots of movies, but his best was, I think,

00:38:05.000 - 00:38:16.000

"Captain's Courageous" with Spencer Tracy. And when we did "Peter Pan," and they had an orchestra, and it started and the orchestra played,

00:38:16.000 - 00:38:25.000

and then we came on, and we had our scripts. He was on one side, and I was on the other. And we dropped our scripts.

00:38:25.000 - 00:38:36.000

We were so much in love, looked into each other's eyes, and did a whole hour program by heart. And even the sound effects,

00:38:36.000 - 00:38:47.000

you know, the sword fights we picked up, and the sound effect, I couldn't believe what he was saying. And they wrote it up in the big--

00:38:47.000 - 00:39:00.000

in the paper the next morning and called me the Shirley Temple of the radio. [laughter] And here's a picture of the book my father wrote,

00:39:00.000 - 00:39:15.000

"Flying the States." And a picture of one of the planes we had, a tri-motored Valker. And here's his other book,

00:39:15.000 - 00:39:28.000

"A Fine Family in Greenland." And here we are at some famous club. I've forgotten. I know we were on the radio.

00:39:28.000 - 00:39:38.000

And there's Anita Louise. She was a movie star, very pretty. She liked us. And the other people in the picture,

00:39:38.000 - 00:39:53.000

I think one was an aviator. I can't remember that part. And when we were on the radio, we were on for "Kolkmont."

00:39:53.000 - 00:40:15.000

And we gave out puzzles. And the puzzle was of the flying family in the map. And here's a picture of the lion we had that we called Governor.

00:40:15.000 - 00:40:33.000

She met every governor in the United States. She shook hands with them. And that's why we called her Governor. She slept with me every night.

00:40:33.000 - 00:40:44.000

How old did she get to be? Thirteen. And what happened to her? Well, we lived in the Governor Clinton Hotel

00:40:44.000 - 00:40:57.000

across from the railroad station in New York. And everybody in the hotel loved her. And they knew that she wouldn't hurt them. We never declared her.

00:40:57.000 - 00:41:17.000

She just loved to be held like my cats. And a policeman knocked on the door one day and said we were breaking the law that we couldn't have a full-grown lion in New York City.

00:41:17.000 - 00:41:27.000

She's got to change the title. Oh, fine. I have to go into the chimpanzee. You know Cheetah?

00:41:27.000 - 00:41:39.000

Yeah, I know Cheetah. We had him. Just to you or to the one with-- In Greenland?

00:41:39.000 - 00:41:53.000

No, no, the one in the Rocky Mountains. I told that. Okay, and finish about the lion. Okay, where did I leave off?

00:41:53.000 - 00:42:02.000

When the policeman-- Just say when. Oh, you did. You ready to get set go?

00:42:02.000 - 00:42:12.000

Okay. So they put her in the Central Park Zoo, which broke her heart and our hearts to see her behind those bars.

00:42:12.000 - 00:42:27.000

And in those days, they just had that cage. Nowadays, you know, they're free and they go around the big field. So we moved back to Maryland

00:42:27.000 - 00:42:43.000

since we were all born there. That was considered home. And they bred her to a very handsome lion, and she had cubs, twins.

00:42:43.000 - 00:42:54.000

One was stillborn, and the other she accidentally smothered at about 3 months. So she stopped eating,

00:42:54.000 - 00:43:05.000

and they were very worried about her. So they called us up and told us that she hadn't eaten in 3 days and that she just wanted to die.

00:43:05.000 - 00:43:16.000

Could we come up and see if we could do something about it? So we drove up and went in the cage, and she was very glad to see us.

00:43:16.000 - 00:43:31.000

And she rolled over on her back, and we stroked her and stayed a long time. And then my father got one of his terrific ideas, and we went out and went to the department stores

00:43:31.000 - 00:43:42.000

and the drugstores to try to find her a stuffed lion that we could rub and leave her with the scent of us.

00:43:42.000 - 00:43:58.000

But we couldn't find a lion, so we settled for a teddy bear. And right away she took it and seemed content. And after a couple hours we left,

00:43:58.000 - 00:44:14.000

and they called us a couple of days later, and they said, "The lion's doing great, "and she's eating now, "and she's carrying the teddy bear around,

00:44:14.000 - 00:44:29.000

"and she's cleaning it, and everything is fine." Well, she lived to be 13, and when she died, the teddy bear looked like it was brand new.

00:44:29.000 - 00:44:50.000

There weren't any holes in it, and it just-- she took care of it all those years. How about the chimpanzee?

00:44:50.000 - 00:45:10.000

Well, Daddy knew the trainer, and he was going on a six-week vacation, so he said, "George, how about keeping Cheetah for it? "And I'll bring all his clothes and everything."

00:45:10.000 - 00:45:29.000

And Daddy said, "Oh, sure." So he had a suit for every-- seven suits, one for every day of the week. And when he felt like it, he smoked,

00:45:29.000 - 00:45:44.000

and he went to the toilet like we do, and he certainly didn't have a complex. And he'd sit at the dining room table, and he'd eat with a knife and fork.

00:45:44.000 - 00:45:56.000

And one time--and he teased my dog. We had a collie dog, and she almost had a nervous breakdown. He'd get on her back and play.

00:45:56.000 - 00:46:11.000

He was a jockey, and she-- and then we'd walk down Hollywood Boulevard, and I was alone with her one day. And, of course, everybody was staring and everything.

00:46:11.000 - 00:46:24.000

She didn't like the wind, and this was a windy day, and she was strong. And I was crossing the street, and thank goodness there was a policeman directing traffic.

00:46:24.000 - 00:46:38.000

We got in the middle of the street, and she jumped up on me, and I couldn't get my breath. She just didn't like the wind, and she squeezed and squeezed and squeezed,

00:46:38.000 - 00:46:51.000

and I yelled for help, and the policeman came and put her down, and so we went on our way. But--so we had company one day.

00:46:51.000 - 00:47:04.000

This was about the third or fourth week. And she--there were--oh, gosh, I don't know how many of us. At least eight. Four in my family.

00:47:04.000 - 00:47:16.000

There were about eight. And she was eating, just minding her own business, and then she'd pick up a glass of water and, whoosh, right in your face.

00:47:16.000 - 00:47:26.000

And I'd--[cheers] And she'd be so happy. So then we put her in a chair in the corner with her face against the wall,

00:47:26.000 - 00:47:40.000

and she had to stay there for at least ten minutes. And she--I don't know whether she was really crying or not, but you could hear the sobs. And then we let her come back,

00:47:40.000 - 00:47:51.000

and there was this huge chandelier above the dining room table. So she'd come back, and she'd be real good for the next ten, 15 minutes.

00:47:51.000 - 00:48:04.000

And then all of a sudden, she'd leap up on the chandelier, back and forth, back and forth, and then reach down and deliberately spill something on the table.

00:48:04.000 - 00:48:17.000

So my father, at the end of the fourth week-- I've forgotten the trainer's name-- he said, "Could you come back a little early? Do you have to stay six weeks?"

00:48:17.000 - 00:48:29.000

So he came back, and she was just like some child, you know. You never knew what she was going to do next. And she certainly wasn't dangerous. She was just--

00:48:29.000 - 00:48:51.000

she just couldn't control herself at times. Tell me, Janet, how did you get interested in acting? I think it--first of all, it was natural to me. Whereas it wasn't for my sister or my mother.

00:48:51.000 - 00:49:03.000

They had to make themselves-- it came natural to me. And then when we had our own show, Tony, the director, liked me so much

00:49:03.000 - 00:49:20.000

that he gave me the opportunity to do all these other things. What was the name of your own show? "The Adventures of the Flying Family." We came on, oh, I think a half hour before or after

00:49:20.000 - 00:49:33.000

Jack Armstrong, the all-American boy. And you did that show for how long? I think it was a couple years. Wow.

00:49:33.000 - 00:49:55.000

And that's--we ran out of true stories, so we started making them up, and they were pretty corny. When you were in school, did you take theater or anything? I was in plays, a lot of plays.

00:49:55.000 - 00:50:11.000

And we went to--in New York, we went to a professional school for acting. Do you recall the name? No.

00:50:11.000 - 00:50:22.000

Did your sister also go? Yes. Now, if you asked her right now, she would tell you. I just can't remember.

00:50:22.000 - 00:50:33.000

Then did you do any acting in New York? That was all the Lux Radio Theater. Oh, okay. That's when I traveled from Hollywood to New York.

00:50:33.000 - 00:50:55.000

Whereas when we did our own show, we lived in New York. And we were in Vaudeville on Broadway. We dramatized our experience in Greenland, the one where we were lost and we had the actual enlarged picture

00:50:55.000 - 00:51:19.000

of the iceberg and the one I just showed you as a backdrop. And then we had two microphones. Mother and Daddy were on this one, my sister and I were on this one, and we dramatized everything that happened, but it was on tape.

00:51:19.000 - 00:51:35.000

Of course, the audience didn't know that. And when it came time for me to talk, I just mimicked. I mean, everybody thought it was me, thought it was us, but it really had been previously taped.

00:51:35.000 - 00:51:50.000

And then everybody loved it. It was at the Lowe's State on Broadway, and we always had a packed house. And some comedian was on before us. He was very famous.

00:51:50.000 - 00:52:08.000

I can't remember his name. And then the other act was a pony act, whereas the stage was made up like a department store, and there were these rocking horses rocking back and forth,

00:52:08.000 - 00:52:20.000

and they were real ponies. I can remember because I used to spend all my time petting them in between shows. So we had a radio show at the same time.

00:52:20.000 - 00:52:36.000

We finished the vaudeville. Oh, incidentally, at the end of it, I came out and sang "Shuffle Off the Buffalo." So anyway, we-- Do you have a recording of that?

00:52:36.000 - 00:52:53.000

No. We had a police escort in order to make it to NBC or CBS, whichever it was, on time. Otherwise in the traffic, we never would have made it.

00:52:53.000 - 00:53:10.000

So every day we had a police escort that would get us there. I do remember that. At this point, about how old were you? I was--it was right after the Greenland.

00:53:10.000 - 00:53:24.000

So 15, 16? No, no. That was the next trip. There were three, and we were only on two. So I was--that was '32.

00:53:24.000 - 00:53:38.000

So you were about six? Six, mm-hmm. I remember I had a little trouble reading the scripts. I had to memorize most of it.

00:53:38.000 - 00:53:55.000

At that point, you were mostly doing homeschooling rather than being in school. When we were traveling, yeah, rather than being in school. Okay. When did you start going to school, public school, regularly? About what grade?

00:53:55.000 - 00:54:13.000

Oh, boy. Off and on in elementary. We'd be gone, and then we'd come back, then we'd be gone, and then we'd come back. I went to LeConte Junior High in Hollywood.

00:54:13.000 - 00:54:27.000

I think I finished--that was two years. And then you moved back to New York. Moved back to Maryland. And went to Towson High.

00:54:27.000 - 00:54:49.000

Okay. When you were in high school, did you do extracurricular activities in the school itself? Sports, for example. Oh, I was the star of all the sports. Yeah, varsity, basketball, baseball, track.

00:54:49.000 - 00:55:20.000

I won the 50-yard dash all the time. I went into the county meet, which was right across the street from where my aunt lived. And I got beaten by a nose in the county meet in the 50-yard dash by a real tall girl. I wouldn't have gotten beaten, but I went into my aunt's house and had a glass of wine before the race.

00:55:20.000 - 00:55:44.000

And I think that's what made me lose. Otherwise, I could have beaten this girl. What kind of a student were you in high school? In Hollywood, I got marvelous, the best you could get.

00:55:44.000 - 00:56:01.000

Then when we moved back to Maryland, in Hollywood, they made it interesting. You wanted to do the work. And I had a lot of difficulty when I moved back to Maryland. It was like they were standing behind you with a knife.

00:56:01.000 - 00:56:17.000

And I almost flunked the first year. I was okay after that. But their method of teaching was so different. Do you recall any teachers in high school?

00:56:17.000 - 00:56:50.000

Yes, I recall one. She was the principal, and her name was Miss Balls. And she made you feel like everything was evil. I would be holding a boy's hand walking down the hall, and she would say, "That's not allowed here.

00:56:50.000 - 00:57:06.000

You want to grow up and be a prostitute?" She would just say anything. She made everything seem bad. She had gray hair, beautiful complexion.

00:57:06.000 - 00:57:24.000

Nobody liked her. And my music teacher, he was great. And I had a good voice, and I sang lots of solos. My favorite one is "The Lord's Prayer."

00:57:24.000 - 00:57:40.000

And that I could do very well. In fact, I did it not too long ago up here. Did you take music lessons, or it's just a God-given talent? I never took lessons.

00:57:40.000 - 00:58:00.000

I just loved to sing. I would sing, when I had my horse, I would sing, "Dump, dump, dump along the highway," because it was in tune with the gallop. I'd always sing when I was riding.

00:58:00.000 - 00:58:26.000

What was your social life like in high school? There were four girls that I went with all the time and four boys that we dated all the time, and we'd switch around. And my father was extremely narrow-minded.

00:58:26.000 - 00:58:47.000

If you stayed out in the car with him or did a little smooching, he'd come out and get you. And then he put a--we had a stairway and a mirror, so if he sat on the stairway, he could see what you were doing. Then he had a purple light on the porch,

00:58:47.000 - 00:59:16.000

so that if we stood under it and he looked into my face, I would look bilious. He did everything to prevent anything. But my high school was extremely happy, and that's when I was a senior, I think, that my aunt gave me my first horse.

00:59:16.000 - 00:59:37.000

He was two years old, and I had to break him. So I fell off seven days a week, and then six days, and then five days. Finally I got so he couldn't throw me anymore. Where did you keep your horse?

00:59:37.000 - 00:59:58.000

Across the street. This lady had a small stable, and she had gotten rid of her horses. I think there were only four stalls, and I took care of it myself. When your dad would catch you doing something that he didn't approve of, were you punished? No, yeah.

00:59:58.000 - 01:00:08.000

What was the punishment? Well, I was--what do you call it--when you have to stay at home-- Restricted. You're restricted.

01:00:08.000 - 01:00:30.000

Or he used to--I don't think he did it when I was older, but I can remember he'd say, "Put out your hand." I never got spanked, and he would go like this. It would hurt. It would really hurt. Sting, you know.

01:00:30.000 - 01:00:59.000

And I can't remember what it was about, but I ran away from home once in high school. My sister could lie and get away with everything, but I always told the truth and got into trouble. But he knew where to find me. I had--the woman across the street moved away, so I had to board him at a regular riding stable.

01:00:59.000 - 01:01:28.000

So I spent the night at the riding stable, and he knew very well where I was, so he came and got me. When did you really become interested in being a pilot yourself? Well, it was just born in me because of my father. And then, after I graduated from high school--and I had heard about the WASP and read in the paper,

01:01:28.000 - 01:01:58.000

and of course Jackie was my father's friend. Let me ask you to tell me about that friendship. They flew--I don't know how many times--but they flew the first bomber over to Britain together. And they struck up this friendship, which later on was really wonderful.

01:01:58.000 - 01:02:22.000

Was your dad a civilian when he did that? Was he in the military? He--I think it was Roosevelt. He had Hoover. I know what they looked like and everything, but I don't know which one gave him the honorary title of Lieutenant Colonel.

01:02:22.000 - 01:02:41.000

And he wore a uniform, but it was honorary. Right. But when he flew with Jackie across the ocean, it was in uniform? Or do you know? I don't. I can't recall. I have pictures.

01:02:41.000 - 01:03:02.000

Was it an Army Air Force airplane? They flew from Newfoundland, and it was a group, like a squadron of many men. I have a picture of it somewhere. There were like about 20 in the picture, and they all flew over.

01:03:02.000 - 01:03:30.000

And he was bombed once when he was over there, and he ended up inside the bathtub. It had turned upside down, and he was under it. I do remember that. Okay. Let me go back now to you learning to fly. I worked after I graduated from high school at Bendix Radio as a government inspector for the Single Corps.

01:03:30.000 - 01:04:03.000

I used that money to fly up to Westminster, a little airport, in order to learn to fly. I can't remember the name of my instructor. And, of course, after eight hours, I soloed, and when I went into the service, I had the minimum, 35 hours. That's all. When you were in high school, did you have any desire to go on to college?

01:04:03.000 - 01:04:24.000

I wanted to go to veterinary school. And one of the colleges had a wonderful course. They were well known for it. It's right on the tip of my tongue, but I can't remember it. But anyway, that went out the window.

01:04:24.000 - 01:04:48.000

Right. And as much as your sister went on to college, were your parents disappointed that you didn't go on? Not at all. What was their philosophy as far as what you did? I don't know. They were very proud of me, and it was almost taken for granted that I would follow in my father's footsteps,

01:04:48.000 - 01:05:18.000

whereas my sister's eyes were not good at all. She wouldn't have been able to fly. When you graduated from high school as a senior, did you have a prom? Yes. I remember that prom. I was engaged to a fellow. How can you forget a fellow's name you were engaged to?

01:05:18.000 - 01:05:42.000

I can just see his face. We were engaged for a whole week. And I had on a beautiful prom. It was at the country club. And I had—I don't know whether they still have those drinks nowadays or not. It was called a zombie.

01:05:42.000 - 01:06:08.000

And it was tall, and I drank it down, walked out to the swimming pool, walked out on the diving board, and dove in. And when I went home and my mother saw how I looked, I mean, she was really upset. I looked like a drowned rat.

01:06:08.000 - 01:06:25.000

Then graduation, did you have robes? Yes. Yes. Okay. Was there anything special about graduation that you recall? No, only diving off the board.

01:06:25.000 - 01:06:42.000

Right. Did your grandparents come to your graduation? No. No. Then once you graduated, you got a job? Yeah, at Bednicks.

01:06:42.000 - 01:07:02.000

I'm just curious why your dad was not your instructor, teaching you how to fly. Well, it's more or less like driving a car. Your parents just can't do it. You're too close, or you get mad at each other.

01:07:02.000 - 01:07:18.000

Parents just cannot, whether it's driving a car or anything, I don't believe you can teach your child to— I ruined my own son. When he was 12, he said, "Mother, I want you to teach me to fly."

01:07:18.000 - 01:07:40.000

I was instructing at the time, and I took him up, and I did a crazy thing. I spun, just to show off. And afterward, he said, "I don't want to fly. Forget it." I never should have done that.

01:07:40.000 - 01:07:55.000

When you were taking flying lessons, and you heard about the WASP program— Mm-hmm. And my dad took me to Washington. We had an appointment with Jackie. He was with me. Tell me about that interview.

01:07:55.000 - 01:08:16.000

It was very nice. She couldn't have been more polite. She just told me to go get a physical at that base right—Andrews? I don't know. I can't remember.

01:08:16.000 - 01:08:26.000

And I was accepted. What did your mom think about your doing that? Anything was great. Okay.

01:08:26.000 - 01:08:46.000

At that time, what did you think the mission of the WASP was? Why were they organized? At that time, to be perfectly honest, I didn't give it that much thought. I just couldn't wait to get there and fly.

01:08:46.000 - 01:09:08.000

That's as far as I got. Did you know any other girls who were flying? No, I was—No, not at all. And what gave you the courage to decide that's what you wanted to do?

01:09:08.000 - 01:09:25.000

Everything in my life has been an adventure. Otherwise, it was dull. And so that was just another adventure. I couldn't wait. I remember going out on the train.

01:09:25.000 - 01:09:46.000

And they served your—When they served lunch, I guess we were about halfway there. I don't know why I remember silly things like that. And I had never had grits before. And I took one bite and spit it out, and I've never had them since.

01:09:46.000 - 01:10:01.000

I hate grits. And your parents, as far as your leaving home, how did they feel about that? That was fine? That was fine.

01:10:01.000 - 01:10:22.000

Good. Recall for me how you felt or what happened when you got to Sweetwater. Had you ever been to Texas? Yes, only when the governor signed the scroll. Good. When you got off the train, tell me then what happened.

01:10:22.000 - 01:10:43.000

What little I can remember, we went in a big truck. Took us to—through the Avenger Field thing. And I guess the wishing well impressed me the most. That was the first thing I saw.

01:10:43.000 - 01:11:04.000

Describe the wishing well. What was that? It was round. And I don't know whether the Fief and Nella statue was put on it later or not. I remember that once you soloed, they dumped you in it.

01:11:04.000 - 01:11:22.000

That was a regular routine. When you got to Avenger with all your classmates, was Miss Cochran there? Did she speak to the class? I don't—not in the beginning.

01:11:22.000 - 01:11:39.000

What do you recall about that first day? Not much. Just being shown around. We were in the last bay.

01:11:39.000 - 01:11:57.000

The whole—the bays were in a row. I can't remember how many rows there were. But we were in the last bay next to the fence. Because later on I had to use that fence.

01:11:57.000 - 01:12:16.000

That I remember well. And you were in a bay with five other girls. And of course, being my name was Hutchinson, I was in a bay with five other names that began with H.

01:12:16.000 - 01:12:26.000

Tell me about your bay mates. They were wonderful. One of them washed out in the very beginning. She was wonderful.

01:12:26.000 - 01:12:47.000

She had been a policewoman. And she was tall, very nice, and had the most hours. It was usually the ones with the most hours that washed out because they couldn't break their bad habits.

01:12:47.000 - 01:13:18.000

They had been doing them so long. So she was the first one and the only one in our bay that was washed out. The other girls—now this girl was my bay mate. They must have slipped her in somewhere because her name was Elizabeth Erickson.

01:13:18.000 - 01:13:45.000

And we were very close because she looked just like my mother did, if I could show the picture, like my mother did when she was her age. So we got to be very close. Unfortunately, she was killed right in front of me in a traffic pattern.

01:13:45.000 - 01:14:22.000

What was she flying? This was—I'm trying to remember because I think it was in the beginning. So that would have been the PT. I think it was the PT—what was that, '17 or '19?

01:14:22.000 - 01:14:29.000

'17. Stearman? Mm-hmm, the stearman. And she was right in front of me.

01:14:29.000 - 01:15:01.000

We were doing takeoffs and landings, and an upperclassman came in. And if you remember in those days—it isn't anymore, but a 45-degree angle. For some reason, they didn't see each other, and boom, it was instant. And they asked me to take her things, her personal things, home, and I couldn't do it.

01:15:01.000 - 01:15:18.000

So somebody else did it. And then you just went right on flying. Yeah. But it was hard because she was in the next cot to me.

01:15:18.000 - 01:15:41.000

Right. Tell me about some of the rules. Well, you weren't supposed to date instructors. And a lot of them—I don't know how many—did it and got away with it.

01:15:41.000 - 01:15:59.000

And I didn't. Up until a certain time—I don't recall exactly when that was—we had been in training for quite some time. And I think his name was Richardson Dick.

01:15:59.000 - 01:16:21.000

He was very good-looking and a good instructor. And everybody got away with it because they did it. They had a system and never got caught. But I was just so naive.

01:16:21.000 - 01:16:42.000

I was stupid. So I met him at the corner drugstore. And then we met these two other couples at the local park. And we had gotten some liquor.

01:16:42.000 - 01:17:05.000

You had to—it was terrible stuff because the town was dry. So we spread out our blankets and opened the bottle. And all of a sudden there were the police. None of us had had a drink.

01:17:05.000 - 01:17:16.000

All we had done was open the bottle. So they said, "Come on. We're going to jail." And we said, "What for?"

01:17:16.000 - 01:17:27.000

"There's a curfew here." Well, there weren't any signs. We never knew. So they took us to the police station.

01:17:27.000 - 01:18:04.000

And every minute you were late on the base, you got a demerit. So naturally after seventy minutes, you were washed out. When we got on the way to the station, they were very, very rude. They said all kinds of horrible, nasty things and called us whores and so on.

01:18:04.000 - 01:18:16.000

So we asked if we could make a phone call. We had always heard that you could make one phone call. And they said no. So midnight came.

01:18:16.000 - 01:18:37.000

We knew we were washed out. And they put me in a cell with two other--with two other--no--with two prostitutes. And they put the other two girls in another cell. And it was raining.

01:18:37.000 - 01:18:54.000

And the glass was broken. Of course, there were bars there, but the glass was broken. The rain was coming in. And there were all these dirty, drawn pictures on the wall and bad words.

01:18:54.000 - 01:19:10.000

And the toilet, it looked--I don't think it had ever been flushed. It was sickening. And if you wanted to lay down, you laid down on bed springs. No mattress.

01:19:10.000 - 01:19:39.000

So anyway, come morning, one of our officers came because they were looking for us. We never showed up at the base. So we--and also we were--the fine was different. They had changed from being in the park after curfew to drunk and disorderly,

01:19:39.000 - 01:20:03.000

where they could get a much larger fine. So he got us back and took us back to the base. And we later found out that this policeman deliberately was trying to give Avenger Field a bad name. It would have been in the newspapers, you know,

01:20:03.000 - 01:20:23.000

because he was getting revenge for his wife, who was a nurse, being fired for sleeping with one of the men at the base. So this was his way of getting even. And he was fired.

01:20:23.000 - 01:20:54.000

But we still had to face being with the instructors. So they called us and they had this board meeting. And I didn't know it, but my dear roommate had called my father and told him what happened. So they had the board meeting and we were told that we were washed out for--

01:20:54.000 - 01:21:26.000

not for our flying ability, because of our flying ability, but because we had dated our instructors. So I went back to the base and started to pack. And all my bay mates were in town.

01:21:26.000 - 01:21:57.000

And so I knew I had disgraced my father and so on and so forth. So I turned--we had heaters all the way around. And I shut the windows and turned on all the heaters and moved my cot up there. Fortunately, my bay mates came back from town early and I had just--I had passed out.

01:21:57.000 - 01:22:43.000

So they just took me to the hospital. And then when I came back from the hospital, I finished packing and I called a cab. And I was out under the Avenger Enterprise sign when they called me over the system. And they said, "Janet Hutchinson, please return to the--wherever it was--the office."

01:22:43.000 - 01:23:13.000

So I went back there. In the meanwhile, my father had gone to Washington and talked to Jackie Conklin. And she said, "Well, I can't excuse your daughter and not the other two girls." And I said, "But I can give all three 45 demerits and confine them to the base till the end of the training."

01:23:13.000 - 01:23:32.000

And he said, "Fine." So they called myself back. I was all ready to get into the cab. And the other two girls, they weren't quite--they were still back in their bay.

01:23:32.000 - 01:23:50.000

And we stood in front of the board. I can't remember. I ran into the one I dated at one of the reunions. And you know, nobody at that reunion recognized me.

01:23:50.000 - 01:24:05.000

Nobody. None of the females. And I was talking about him at the time. And I felt this tap on the shoulder and I turned around and it was him. He was the only one that remembered me.

01:24:05.000 - 01:24:16.000

Isn't that strange? And he hadn't changed. Oh, men just don't seem to change like women. He was still good-looking.

01:24:16.000 - 01:24:41.000

This was at one of those-- It wasn't the Sweetwater one. San Antonio, I think. Then you went back to your bay and then what happened for 45 days until you graduated?

01:24:41.000 - 01:24:52.000

Just continued on with the training. Couldn't leave the base. Were you able to go on the cross-country? Yep. Yes.

01:24:52.000 - 01:25:17.000

And what got to me was he said, "I have decided." He never once gave any credit to Jackie Cochran. It was, "I have decided." So when he finished, he said, "Do you have anything to say?"

01:25:17.000 - 01:25:35.000

And I said, "Yes, sir." I don't know what gave me the courage. I said, "It's strange, isn't it, that we're being punished for something that you do every night?" He had dated everybody.

01:25:35.000 - 01:25:45.000

And there was dead silence. Then I turned around and walked out. This was the instructor that you had been with? No, this was the CO.

01:25:45.000 - 01:25:58.000

The CO. Oh. I've never forgotten that either. So at least I had my say-so.

01:25:58.000 - 01:26:20.000

Tell me about any of the cross-countries. Anything happen on a cross-country? I remember my first 500-mile solo night cross-country. And it was a wonderful adventure.

01:26:20.000 - 01:26:49.000

Where did you go? It's gone. All I remember is it was 500 miles. And I could hear the engine, and it seemed like the engine was playing a tune.

01:26:49.000 - 01:27:09.000

I could have written a song, but I don't know music. I don't know notes. But it was a beautiful tune, if somebody just could have written it down. And then I thought I was lost.

01:27:09.000 - 01:27:31.000

I was really getting panicky. And I landed at this airport, and I was in the right place. That's the only thing I can remember about it. What stands out in your mind about the training program itself?

01:27:31.000 - 01:28:10.000

I don't think it could have been any better. I do remember some of the instructors cursing you and yelling at you. When later on as an instructor, I really believe that a student learns much more if you don't do that. But we had a couple of instructors that really yelled and screamed at you.

01:28:10.000 - 01:28:31.000

And I also had some that were just excellent. And all of us felt the same way. We couldn't wait to get up the next morning. And ground school, I had never had physics before.

01:28:31.000 - 01:28:57.000

I was really surprised to get physics in ground school. And Link Trainer I really loved. And I came back to that later, after I graduated, for the advanced instrument course, which was great. What was your favorite thing about ground school, favorite subject?

01:28:57.000 - 01:29:12.000

Morse code. Morse code, yeah. Tell us, what did you use Morse code for? That's a good question.

01:29:12.000 - 01:29:29.000

They taught it to us for some reason, but I already knew it. So it was easy for me. Navigation, perhaps? Yeah, I guess maybe they were still using it then.

01:29:29.000 - 01:29:50.000

Before Doppler radar. Right. Describe what a typical day was like for you at Avenger. Got up at 6.

01:29:50.000 - 01:30:09.000

I had a few minutes to dress. Make your bed perfectly so they could bounce the dime on it. I got a few demerits for that, too. And a few more for not getting dressed fast enough.

01:30:09.000 - 01:30:36.000

It seemed, I think they were picking on me or something. And then we'd go to breakfast, and then out to the flight line. And then to ground school, to dinner, and to town on the weekends. Of course, I never saw that except before all this happened.

01:30:36.000 - 01:30:50.000

I remember going, before I was confined, going to the movies. We liked that. We went every weekend. Did your bay mates pick on you, too?

01:30:50.000 - 01:31:24.000

Yeah, because I was the youngest one in the service. They lowered the age to 18, and I was about 18 and a half or maybe even a little younger. And so they picked on me by tying me to a chair and giving me a crew cut. And I had never had coffee before.

01:31:24.000 - 01:31:51.000

And I think I had, but I didn't like it. And so they opened my mouth and poured coffee down my throat, and they did a couple other things. Oh, I remember something that's terrible. You know, we had our turns of duties, and we'd switch off every week.

01:31:51.000 - 01:32:07.000

I have a picture of me sweeping the floor, and I was dark raving naked. I have that picture somewhere. I was going to say, is that picture available? I was looking for it the other night.

01:32:07.000 - 01:32:29.000

I think I maybe destroyed it or something. We did some crazy things. And I had--we were all very, very close. But this one bay mate of mine was always getting into trouble

01:32:29.000 - 01:32:48.000

and never got caught because we got her out of the trouble every time. I don't know whether it's right to talk about somebody else. I won't say what the trouble was. That would be better.

01:32:48.000 - 01:33:12.000

But we would always get her out of that trouble. She was never caught. And she would even get up or go out in the athletic field. I don't know where she got the booze, and stand up there and take off all her clothes.

01:33:12.000 - 01:33:32.000

And we would grab her before anyone else saw her and carry her back to the bay. She was--but she could fly. I mean, she was very capable. Tell me what significance that fence has to you at Avenger.

01:33:32.000 - 01:33:58.000

Well, after I was confined to the base, I mean, it was a--I think it was-- we had three months to go at least. I and my friends would go on the weekends and bring me back little presents. But one night I couldn't stand it any longer.

01:33:58.000 - 01:34:30.000

So I climbed over that fence and talked to a cow for two hours and just poured out my soul. And he acted like he was listening because he never moved. He just kept looking at me and, you know, they'd wiggle their ears. So anyway, that was my two hours, and thank God I didn't get caught.

01:34:30.000 - 01:34:59.000

That was my two hours of freedom. Is there anything else about the training that you would like to share? I can remember--oh, in primary training, I was-- I ground looped 15 minutes before my check ride.

01:34:59.000 - 01:35:18.000

So I lost all confidence. But when I took the check ride, I don't know what did it, but I passed. Describe for me what is a ground loop. Well, you have to learn to land in a crosswind.

01:35:18.000 - 01:35:51.000

And if you can land a stearman with its narrow undercarriage, then you can land anything. And it's easy, fairly easy, if you're landing straight into the wind. But when it's coming from the side, you have to make certain corrections. And if you don't make them correctly, your wing comes up like this,

01:35:51.000 - 01:36:14.000

and you make a ground loop, and it tears the tip of your wing. It just damages it. So this is what I did before my check ride, and it really-- I thought, "Boy, I'm never going to make this." But I did.

01:36:14.000 - 01:36:47.000

Did you have to go before the board for that? No. No. Describe what the auxiliary fields, what they were all about. I can remember going to them to practice landings and takeoffs, and then flying back.

01:36:47.000 - 01:37:12.000

And then when you took off your goggles, I mean, you were a mess. Nothing but sand, you know. You looked like an owl. There was just sand everywhere. That's all I can remember about it. Were you there when it snowed?

01:37:12.000 - 01:37:26.000

No. Just sand? Just sand. What would happen if you were up in the air when those sand storms blew in?

01:37:26.000 - 01:37:43.000

Nothing. You just choked. It was the open cockpit, you know. While you were at Avenger, did Miss Cochran ever come in to visit? Yes, she did. Once or twice.

01:37:43.000 - 01:38:03.000

And while you were there, were you aware of what the girls were doing who had graduated before you? Yes. And then when it became time for you to graduate, did you have a choice of your assignment? Yes, but I didn't get my choice.

01:38:03.000 - 01:38:27.000

My friends did. Everybody in my bay did. But I didn't. I wanted to be with them, and I didn't get to be with them. Tell me about your uniforms. Well, we wore the khaki suits, the khaki pants, and was it a white shirt or a khaki shirt?

01:38:27.000 - 01:38:41.000

White shirt. White shirt. Because we didn't have uniforms. And what did you find? And the zoot suits were huge. They were made for men.

01:38:41.000 - 01:39:14.000

And I looked like a, I don't know what in mine. And I was shorter than most of the girls, and I had to have a lot of pillows in that PT. The first time we went over, I lost my pillows, and I was swaying out in the prop wash. So he immediately turned it right side up.

01:39:14.000 - 01:39:30.000

But what were we saying? About the uniforms. We later got the uniforms. I don't exactly remember when. What was your favorite airplane?

01:39:30.000 - 01:39:52.000

AT-6. What made that special? I don't know. It seemed easier to fly, and it was faster and easier to maneuver. I don't know. It just became a friend.

01:39:52.000 - 01:40:38.000

Did anything unusual happen on any of your cross-country flights? Before graduation, no. During the time you were at Sweetwater, were your family ever able to come and visit? No. I have a letter right here telling them the date and looking forward to their coming, like it was definite.

01:40:38.000 - 01:40:50.000

And they didn't come. And for your graduation, did they come? No, that's what I mean. Okay. Tell me about your graduation. Were there some dignitaries?

01:40:50.000 - 01:41:32.000

Yeah. It wasn't Jackie. I know that half Arnold came, but it wasn't mine. I don't recall. What did your orders tell you? I was supposed to go to Gunner Field, Montgomery, Alabama, which I did. And I had a dog, which I had gotten, forgot to mention her, as a puppy from my laundry woman for $2.

01:41:32.000 - 01:41:59.000

And the first time I took her to a vet, he said, "Do you know you have a purebred white collie?" And I said, "No, I got her for $2." He said, "Well, you're pretty lucky, and she's going to be smart." So I took her to Gunner Field, and we all named, or if you had a puppy, you named it something to do with airplanes,

01:41:59.000 - 01:42:34.000

like prop wash or this or that, and I named mine ETA, ETA for estimated time of arrival. And, oh, she was almost as good as the lion. At Gunner Field, I was a test pilot, a ferry pilot, and an instructor. I did all three things.

01:42:34.000 - 01:43:12.000

And I had this office, little office, with a screen door, and she couldn't go with me on my test flights because she'd get thrown all over the place. But she knew that she could go on one flight a day at 2 o'clock to this auxiliary field in the AT-6. And I'm just guessing that there are 300 AT-6s on the flight line, and mine was 252, of which other pilots flew.

01:43:12.000 - 01:43:32.000

It wasn't just me. So 2 o'clock would come, and I'd get up and put on my chute, and out the door she would go. Otherwise, she'd never move all day long until 2 o'clock. And by the time I got to the plane, she's on the wing.

01:43:32.000 - 01:43:49.000

So they wrote it up in the base newspaper, you know, that they thought this was this dog was some genius. But she knew she could go on that one trip. And you had gotten that dog while you were still at Avenger? Uh-huh.

01:43:49.000 - 01:43:57.000

Do you recall the lady's name? Nope. She was black. And she lived in Sweetwater? Uh-huh.

01:43:57.000 - 01:44:25.000

And, um, Etta lived to be, uh, I can't remember, 12 or something. She died eventually of cancer, but I took her to obedience class, and she just-- After so many months, I had to take her out. She was bored. She did everything so perfectly.

01:44:25.000 - 01:44:39.000

She was so far ahead of the other dogs, but she was bored, so I quit taking her. When you arrived at Gunter, to whom did you report? Do you recall? No.

01:44:39.000 - 01:45:05.000

Okay. Were there already other WASPs stationed there? I was stationed with a girl in our class that I didn't know too well, but I got to know better later. Betty Thompson. They called her Tommy. Do you recall her? Uh-huh. Where did you live when you were stationed?

01:45:05.000 - 01:45:24.000

At the barracks. Oh, no. We lived two different places. We lived--I don't know which one was first. How were you-- Because I remember being in the barracks, and I remember being in this great big colonial house.

01:45:24.000 - 01:45:48.000

And how were you treated by the male pilots at Gunter? Kind of cold. But later, they were--they were nice. What was your social life like at Gunter? I dated, but not very much.

01:45:48.000 - 01:46:16.000

Okay. What was your favorite thing to do? I mean, as far as flying. Was it the testing or the administrative? What did you enjoy doing? I think--that's a hard question. I liked testing, and I liked ferrying. I liked all three, and I was a good instructor.

01:46:16.000 - 01:46:37.000

Good. Were you instructing in instruments or what? No, AT-6. Okay. Do you recall any of your students who went on to be outstanding pilots or--? After they left me, I don't know.

01:46:37.000 - 01:47:00.000

Don't know. Okay. How were you notified that the WASPs were going to be disbanded? I don't know whether they called us up or what. It was a devastating shock, very sad. Okay.

01:47:00.000 - 01:47:22.000

It just--and it happened right before Christmas. It was a bad time, and we were in a state of shock, like everybody, I'm sure. Did the air base do anything special for you when you were dismissed? If they did, I don't remember it. I think I would have remembered.

01:47:22.000 - 01:47:59.000

Okay. When you were disbanded, what did you do? I went home, and some of the girls went home with me. I remember they were there for New Year's. And six of us left to drive to California in a coupe.

01:47:59.000 - 01:48:15.000

And, I mean, it was very uncomfortable. I was in the back with the tree. I remember falling asleep on our lap. And we went out of our way to see the Grand Canyon,

01:48:15.000 - 01:48:43.000

and we went to Lake Arrowhead, where Hallie Stiers had a log cabin. We were there for, I think, six weeks, a bunch of us, twelve of us. And I was with Mary Brodenbach. She became my very best friend and went home with me.

01:48:43.000 - 01:49:00.000

And she was supposed to stay at my house with my mother and I for two weeks, and she ended up six weeks because my horse broke her collarbone. He was very good at throwing people. He also broke my husband's collarbone.

01:49:00.000 - 01:49:16.000

He had collarbone-itis. Whenever he threw you, it was always the collarbone. Anyway, it was beautiful. And I have lots of pictures of Lake Arrowhead with the girls,

01:49:16.000 - 01:49:38.000

building snowmen, and it was beautiful. And then what did you plan to do when the six of you got to California? We went from there down into Hollywood, stayed in a motel.

01:49:38.000 - 01:50:02.000

Then I went to see my sister, and Mary was with me in San Francisco and stayed a while. I had a couple of small adventures there. Well, tell us about those adventures.

01:50:02.000 - 01:50:23.000

Well, my brother--Mary and I--you know how hilly San Francisco is, and we didn't have a car, and we were walking home, and this man pulled up and said, "Would you like a ride?" So we said, "Yeah."

01:50:23.000 - 01:50:39.000

Stupid. And we got there first, and we drove, I think, one or two blocks, and I went like this to Mary. I said, "We live right here," which we didn't, you know,

01:50:39.000 - 01:51:05.000

but he had gotten his thing out of his pants. He was exposing himself. So she caught on, and then we jumped out of the car. But anyhow, we had a nice visit, and then we flew back home.

01:51:05.000 - 01:51:19.000

Anyway, that's when she came to my house and stayed, and that's when the horse broke her collarbone. And then she went home. And then you stayed at home?

01:51:19.000 - 01:51:40.000

Did you get a job? I stayed at home and got married. Where did you meet this young man? We went through high school together--I mean, not together.

01:51:40.000 - 01:51:55.000

We started dating. He went to McDonough, a military school, and I went to Towson High, and I met him at a McDonough dance. And we just--and he had flown.

01:51:55.000 - 01:52:09.000

He was in the service. So we had a lot in common, and he was a great golfer, and so was I. We had that in common. And our parents thought we should marry.

01:52:09.000 - 01:52:23.000

We were more like brother and sister. I'm sure we both felt the same way when we walked down the aisle. We weren't madly in love. We weren't sure.

01:52:23.000 - 01:52:44.000

Where were you married? At the Towson Presbyterian Church, where I sang in the choir. And then I kept teaching. I taught at Rutherford Airport and at Glen Burning.

01:52:44.000 - 01:53:06.000

What kind of airplanes? Cessna, Cessna 120 or whatever it was. And I gave him my paycheck. I was getting him through his last year at Johns Hopkins College,

01:53:06.000 - 01:53:26.000

and he would begrudge me because I kept $5 to--my horse was in pasture, and I had to give him $5 a month for eating the grass. So he begrudged me the $5. Anyway--

01:53:26.000 - 01:53:40.000

So he was in medical school? No, just--no. Hopkins. Johns Hopkins, yeah.

01:53:40.000 - 01:54:09.000

But not the medical. And he finally graduated, and I think he was in real estate for a while. And we lived on Lock Raven Boulevard in the row houses, and I still had my dog. Because I remember his dog house out back.

01:54:09.000 - 01:54:23.000

And then I got pregnant. We both worked at Bendix for a while after I stopped flying. What did you do at Bendix? I did the same thing, government inspector.

01:54:23.000 - 01:54:40.000

And he was something else. I can remember him walking up and down the aisles. And then we'd walk home together before we got a car. First car we had was a Yellech convertible, old used thing.

01:54:40.000 - 01:55:02.000

And I remember--I don't know what he was doing, but I remember in order for it to start, he had to open up the hood and suck on something. I can't remember what he was sucking on. Then it would start.

01:55:02.000 - 01:55:25.000

So I think I skipped over one thing. Okay, well just back up. I worked at Shepherd Pratt. Oh, that was after we were married, because he promised to meet me halfway, and he never did.

01:55:25.000 - 01:55:43.000

It was before we got the Yellech convertible. I was a secretary and librarian. And you know, Shepherd Pratt's famous world over. It had a lot of celebrities in there that I met.

01:55:43.000 - 01:55:58.000

And I used to also take messages to different wards. And D Ward was the third or fourth floor. That was the worst. You'd always hear this yelling and screaming.

01:55:58.000 - 01:56:18.000

So one day I delivered a message up there, and there was this lady there. She was standing up and smiling. And out came her arms. I thought she was going to hug me. And all of a sudden when I got up close, she went, "Pfft!"

01:56:18.000 - 01:56:43.000

She spit right in my face. And I've never forgotten that either. Anyway, I think I was there nine months, but it was spooky. And when he said--and I had approximately--and I was on the late shift.

01:56:43.000 - 01:57:04.000

Worked from four to midnight. So it was three miles to Towson, and we were halfway, so a mile and a half home. "Oh, honey, I'll meet you halfway." I'm still waiting. He never met me halfway.

01:57:04.000 - 01:57:26.000

And anyway, that was that. You mean he just left? No, he just never bothered to meet me halfway so I wouldn't have to walk home alone. So while we were in the row houses, I got pregnant and fainted one day.

01:57:26.000 - 01:57:48.000

I remember the mailman came and I just got up too fast and I fainted. And then--and I rode my horse up until the day I had him. My mother said it was the horse that did it, but the doctor said I could continue doing anything I was used to.

01:57:48.000 - 01:58:10.000

So I--but Robbie came six weeks ahead of time, and I was at the country club at the swimming pool when my water broke, and it was most embarrassing in front of all those people. So I--one of my friends drove me home.

01:58:10.000 - 01:58:31.000

It was at 1 o'clock in the afternoon, and my husband never came home for lunch, never. But this day he did. So he took me to the hospital, and I went into labor for 10 hours. And they wouldn't give me anything for the pain.

01:58:31.000 - 01:58:49.000

They said I had to help them. See, they knew he was Frank Breach, but they thought they had weeks to turn him. And then he came early, so he wasn't turned. So he came rear first.

01:58:49.000 - 01:59:09.000

And I'm telling you, I could stay in a lot of pain. But, oh, I could hear this awful screaming. I thought it was some animal, and I realized it was me. Then I tried to jump out the window, and they grabbed me.

01:59:09.000 - 01:59:30.000

I just was in absolute torture. So he finally came, and they brought him in to see me, and I could show you pictures. He was the ugliest thing you ever saw in your--ever. He looked worse than the afterbirth.

01:59:30.000 - 01:59:46.000

I mean, he looked like a shriveled-up Chinaman. I'll show you the pictures. He's handsome now. His legs were up like this for I don't know how long, because they had been that way so long.

01:59:46.000 - 02:00:06.000

And they allowed me to go home, but they kept him in an incubator for, I don't know, one or two weeks. And, of course, I didn't breastfeed. And when he came home, I cried. I mean, he was absolutely horrible.

02:00:06.000 - 02:00:25.000

But in three months' time--and I'll show you those pictures--in three months, he was absolutely gorgeous. Gorgeous. It was unbelievable. But it took three months to do it.

02:00:25.000 - 02:00:38.000

So you quit your job when you had the baby. Yes. When he was 18 months old, my husband left me. He was a womanizer.

02:00:38.000 - 02:00:50.000

And one day after our divorce, he married. I never had any other children. Why, yes, I think--yes, he did. He told me about it.

02:00:50.000 - 02:01:12.000

That was--he had just met the girl. And the last I heard, he was on his fourth marriage. So I don't know whether he's still living or not. But he was a womanizer, which I really didn't know until he finally--

02:01:12.000 - 02:01:37.000

One day, he said, "I've been a hypocrite so long, I can't live like this anymore." He said, "I'm in love with somebody else." And I said--and little Robbie was on the John, and we were out in the hall. I said, "How can you leave him?"

02:01:37.000 - 02:01:51.000

He said, "Well, I'll get to see him." And so that was that. And it was kind of friendly. And he had us over to dinner.

02:01:51.000 - 02:02:08.000

She was a nurse. I don't know how long they stayed married. But he and his brother were very much alike. It was like they were having a contest, even in high school, of who could sleep with the most.

02:02:08.000 - 02:02:25.000

They both should have been in the Guinness Book. I'm sure they broke all kinds of records. So what did you do then? After we were divorced, I went back to flying.

02:02:25.000 - 02:02:39.000

My mother took care of Robbie. I never saw him hardly. When I came home, it was his bedtime. And I got very upset.

02:02:39.000 - 02:03:01.000

And I said, "Mother, I never see my own son. What am I going to do?" She said, "Well, you have that chicken house out back with 200 chickens. If I were in your shoes, I'd get rid of all the chickens and make a nursery out of it

02:03:01.000 - 02:03:20.000

and take care of other people's children." So that's how it all began. We got rid of the chickens, and we did the whole chicken out. It was pretty big.

02:03:20.000 - 02:03:34.000

Over. And it looked pretty nice. And I--just mornings, just mornings. Nobody ever heard of daycare then.

02:03:34.000 - 02:03:52.000

Started with five children. One was my own. He called me Miss Janet until he was 15, because everybody else did. Are you ready to change?

02:03:52.000 - 02:04:00.000

I'm going to change, yeah. Okay. Recess. I have a feeling you're going to tell something else that's very interesting.

02:04:00.000 - 02:04:12.000

I'm afraid if somebody made a movie of your life, nobody would believe it. You went from high highs to low lows. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Chicken coop.

02:04:12.000 - 02:04:25.000

Now we're into daycare. So I started with five children. One was my own. It grew.

02:04:25.000 - 02:04:40.000

Did you have help? No. That was in 1953. And then I got up.

02:04:40.000 - 02:05:11.000

I went from five to 20 children. Then I needed help, and I got this help through--I think I put an ad in the paper. Anyway, I got this lovely black person, Doris Alexander, whom we are bosom friends. She sends me a card ever since I've left.

02:05:11.000 - 02:05:31.000

She's never missed one holiday. I have truly never--she worked for me for 29 years, and I have yet to see her frown. The children just adored her. She was so deeply loved by everybody.

02:05:31.000 - 02:05:55.000

Well, after I got the 20 children, my father said, "Well, you're doing pretty well. I'll take this over to school." Well, I was his daughter, and I didn't know how to say no. And he took school over, and I worked for him.

02:05:55.000 - 02:06:25.000

But I will say that I don't think it would have grown had I continued the way I was. He added on another building, which was a classroom. He added on another building, which was another classroom. And he added on above, which was my apartment over the school.

02:06:25.000 - 02:07:00.000

And that's the clock. So it was called Kiddie College, K-I-D-D-I-E-K-O-L-L-E-G-E. And it went on for a total of 39 years. During this time, there was--it started with three-year-olds,

02:07:00.000 - 02:07:15.000

three-year-olds through kindergarten. And we got accredited--we later became accredited. And we later--everybody talked about it. It was in the newspapers.

02:07:15.000 - 02:07:34.000

It was wonderful. Then we bought the house on the corner, and that was another addition, five-year-olds. And my nephew taught there. He later became a professor.

02:07:34.000 - 02:07:53.000

But one of the funny things happened was there was a time-- you might remember the movie stars and everybody-- they had a potbellied pig fad. And Michael Jackson, I know, had one.

02:07:53.000 - 02:08:10.000

Well, we got one. It was up at the pet shop, and I saw it, and I just fell in love. And I bought it--I think it was a female. Or--no, I can't remember.

02:08:10.000 - 02:08:27.000

But it was $1,300. Then it was a fad. You had to pay a lot of money for one. And my dog had a nervous breakdown.

02:08:27.000 - 02:08:53.000

He'd wake up throwing up and howling. I'd be in my pajamas and throw on my robe and take him to this vet that was open for emergencies not far from my house. And gave him some medication. And finally, the second time it happened, he says, "This dog is under a lot of stress.

02:08:53.000 - 02:09:05.000

What's happening at your home?" I said, "Well, I have a pig." And she's very jealous. And the pig can outrun my dog.

02:09:05.000 - 02:09:22.000

I mean, the pig can do everything better, and I think the dog knows it. And he said, "Well, you've got to get rid of one or the other." Well, the kids loved that pig. He was just adorable.

02:09:22.000 - 02:09:41.000

He was allowed to do things that the dog wasn't, and the dog was jealous. And the kids would rub his tummy, and he was in the classroom all day. And we named him Beauregard. And of course we called him Beau.

02:09:41.000 - 02:10:10.000

So I went to California. I guess it was to--I don't know where it was, but while we were there, I called the fella I bought the pig from. I said--and my mother was ill. And it was just too much for me, the whole school and all.

02:10:10.000 - 02:10:29.000

And I don't know whether that was when my father retired. Anyway, I told him, I said, "While I'm away, it'll be easier for me if you sell the pig." And he called me up later, and he said, "The fad's over with. You can't sell him.

02:10:29.000 - 02:10:45.000

You'll have to give him away." So I did. He got a nice farm, and that was that. So no, my father was still there.

02:10:45.000 - 02:11:10.000

So I took a sabbatical, and I got my trainer's license. And for the next ten years, five of which I was away from the school and five of which I came back to the school and did both, until the doctor said I had to give one up.

02:11:10.000 - 02:11:27.000

I fainted in the barn. And he said, "You can't stay up all night and run horses in West Virginia and come back and pick up the 22 kids and teach at school." He said, "You're not Superwoman."

02:11:27.000 - 02:11:49.000

It broke my heart, but I had to give up the horses. But anyway, I trained. I loved it. I trained at Pimlico, Laurel, Dover, Delaware, Pocono Downs, West Virginia.

02:11:49.000 - 02:12:07.000

I adored it. If I had to choose between the horses and flying, it would be tough. But I think I would choose the horses because they have a heart and not a machine. Were you training them to be race horses?

02:12:07.000 - 02:12:27.000

They were race horses. And at first I just had a couple, but then people liked me, and I ended up with nine that I trained for other people, and one was my own. And he is another story.

02:12:27.000 - 02:12:46.000

So I go on with that? Sure. His name was Brasher Falls. That's on my email, only just Brasher, because they said the Brasher Falls was already taken. And he was six years old, never been broken.

02:12:46.000 - 02:13:09.000

Now that's unheard of. A horse six years old never had anybody on his back. Never had a tattoo, naturally. So one of my jockey friends broke him, and they let him run at Dover without a tattoo.

02:13:09.000 - 02:13:22.000

After the meet was over, I brought him to West Virginia. Oh no, you can't run this horse without a tattoo. You want to check it, or do you want to just keep going? I bet.

02:13:22.000 - 02:13:40.000

Brasher Falls. I used to spend the night with him in the stall at the racetrack approximately three times a week. He'd always lay down. A lot of horses sleep standing up.

02:13:40.000 - 02:13:54.000

And then I'd put my head on his neck, and that would be that. And he was not like a regular racehorse. He was not high strung. He was like a pet.

02:13:54.000 - 02:14:17.000

And he was affectionate. He was marvelous. And most trainers--I'd hate to say how many--give their horses drugs to make them run faster. Some of these drugs the vet cannot detect.

02:14:17.000 - 02:14:33.000

I never gave him any drugs. I have other horses. I never gave him anything except vitamins. And he was always quiet.

02:14:33.000 - 02:15:04.000

And when he finally got tattooed, it took the man a month or six weeks to visit the tattooed man to come and do it. He would run a mile and a sixteenth, which is--he couldn't run any shorter. And you would take him to the paddock, and all the horses are prancing. And he'd be walking like a cow.

02:15:04.000 - 02:15:21.000

That was sick. And then you could saddle him with one hand. He'd just stay there with his head down, never move. Then he'd go out on the track, and every horse would warm up.

02:15:21.000 - 02:15:36.000

Not him, not Brasher. He'd just poke along, do a little bit of trotting, that's about it. But I would tell the jock, you know, what to do and what not to do. So he'd follow my orders.

02:15:36.000 - 02:15:59.000

So he'd finally get around to the gate. And he'd walk in the gate like he was falling asleep. And the bell would ring, and they'd all--[claps]--and he'd glomp, glomp, glomp. He'd be at least 20 lengths behind the leader, at least.

02:15:59.000 - 02:16:24.000

He'd get to the half-mile pole, and the jockey, which I told him to do it, would show him--that's my bad arm--would show him the whip, just like that, not hitting. And then go--[claps]--and he'd go--[claps]-- and he'd pass each horse and win by five lengths.

02:16:24.000 - 02:16:37.000

He'd always wait to the half-mile pole. He did this five races in a row. He could never go to the front. You know, he'd have to run that way.

02:16:37.000 - 02:17:05.000

And the sixth time, he was claimed. And it was just like as bad as when they took the lion away, you know. I can explain it to you in that if you put a horse in an allowance race with better horses or a stake race, and he's a cheap horse, there's no way he can win.

02:17:05.000 - 02:17:22.000

He's running with better horses. That's how they got better. So he was in a claiming race where he could win with cheaper horses. It's all class.

02:17:22.000 - 02:17:44.000

And so then they put--there's a box, and 15 minutes before the race, you have to put the horse's name in the box. He's for sale, in other words. So if he drops dead in the race, he's still yours.

02:17:44.000 - 02:18:00.000

You just bought him. But then for 30 days, you have to raise him up so he's running with better horses. And that's where he doesn't belong. Do you understand what I mean?

02:18:00.000 - 02:18:21.000

I think so. But anyway, I saw him once after that in the stall way up on the other side of the track, and he knew me. And that was it.

02:18:21.000 - 02:18:36.000

He never won another race. That was it. He just wouldn't run for anybody else. How long did you stay in that training horses?

02:18:36.000 - 02:18:54.000

A total of 10 years. Five, I went back and did both, which was too much, like I said. And five, I was gone from the school completely, just did the training. In the meantime, was your son--had he grown up by that time?

02:18:54.000 - 02:19:13.000

He was growing, and he was at the racetrack. And he would--my aunt gave me a racehorse, Fancy Fleet, Count Fleet, whom you've probably heard of. Was his grandfather?

02:19:13.000 - 02:19:32.000

Anyway, he was famous. And he won lots of races for me. And we used--Tombonium Racetrack, where I raced at times when it was open, was near where I lived, near Kitty College.

02:19:32.000 - 02:19:53.000

So we would come out when it's still dark in the morning, before Robbie went to school, and he'd exercise him the wrong way of the track, because if you exercise him the right way, there's no way you could hold him. I mean, he had a mouth of iron.

02:19:53.000 - 02:20:07.000

So I'd sit up in the grandstand in the dark. I couldn't see them at all. All I could hear was brum, brum, brum, brum. It was really something.

02:20:07.000 - 02:20:36.000

And later, my son worked at the racetrack exercising horses. He'd--before school, he'd get on--I don't know how many-- everybody wanted him, everybody, because he was so good. And he later became a trainer, and he later trained at Hialeah.

02:20:36.000 - 02:20:54.000

So he just followed in my footsteps. And then he decided it wasn't his life. In racing, unless you're the big wheel, you know, like the Kentucky Derby, you're up here, and then you're down here, especially your owners.

02:20:54.000 - 02:21:09.000

You're the greatest thing in the world, the greatest trainer in the world, as long as their horse is winning. But then when the horse gets tired and doesn't run so fast anymore, then you're the worst trainer there is.

02:21:09.000 - 02:21:21.000

That's the way it goes. So-- So when you finished doing that, then what did you do? I have to think a minute.

02:21:21.000 - 02:21:38.000

Oh, my father retired, and I ran the school. I had one horse that I let somebody else train. Let me ask you, in this school, by this time, what ages did you have in school? They're still the same.

02:21:38.000 - 02:21:51.000

Three to kindergarten. Three through kindergarten. And my father had retired, and my mother had retired. So I ran the school until 1991.

02:21:51.000 - 02:22:14.000

And then I came down here to visit my sister on Christmas. And in five minutes, I went to the sales office and said, "I want to--" I knew that I would go on with the school unless I did something that made me retire.

02:22:14.000 - 02:22:32.000

I couldn't retire on my own. It had just been so many years, 39. So I said, "I want a house built beside my sister's. I'm going home, and when it's finished, I'll come back."

02:22:32.000 - 02:22:55.000

And during that time, I was very close to a nervous breakdown. I sold the school for peanuts, and one of my students bought it. He had grown up, you know. And he made it into a gorgeous home

02:22:55.000 - 02:23:18.000

and stayed in it a few years and sold it and make one heck of a profit. But I knew it wasn't-- the nervous breakdown came not from the children, not from the parents, but your modern teachers changed.

02:23:18.000 - 02:23:33.000

They were so dedicated. And later on, the last few years that I was there, if they got sick, they didn't call in. They just didn't appear.

02:23:33.000 - 02:23:49.000

Or if they quit, there was no two weeks' notice. They just didn't appear. And if something wasn't to their liking, they'd talk back to you. It was the teachers that drove me away.

02:23:49.000 - 02:24:04.000

I just couldn't take it anymore, and I tried to make it 40, but 39 years was it. Let me back up a minute. I know I saw a picture of you with a golf club in your hand.

02:24:04.000 - 02:24:18.000

Oh, yeah. I belonged to the Hillandale Country Club in Maryland for many years. My husband and I belonged together before we were divorced. He was a great golfer, too.

02:24:18.000 - 02:24:42.000

And I became club champion, and then my best friend took it away from me, and then I took it back again, and then she took it away from me, and that was the last. Nobody else had a chance.

02:24:42.000 - 02:24:57.000

It was just she and I every year. And today do you play golf? Yes. I had a terrible accident, and I play now almost like a beginner.

02:24:57.000 - 02:25:19.000

I can only raise my arm this high and see it's crooked. And I have learned--when I first went back to golf, I came home and cried because I couldn't play like I used to. But my dearest friend told me to write that all out.

02:25:19.000 - 02:25:37.000

So I wrote it out one day, and at the end of what I was writing, I put, "I'm playing from now on, not for the score, but just to have a good time." And so that's what I've done ever since. It's fine.

02:25:37.000 - 02:25:49.000

Good for you. Did we cover the part about the acting, or did we skip over it? I don't remember. You mean in these pictures?

02:25:49.000 - 02:25:58.000

Yeah, we covered that. Yeah, we covered that. Right. We didn't cover your accident.

02:25:58.000 - 02:26:13.000

Do you want to talk about that or not? It's up to you. It might help somebody else. When I first moved--I didn't drink in Maryland.

02:26:13.000 - 02:26:33.000

On occasion, you know, my husband and I would go to parties, and we might get a little bit loaded. One time I got sick and went-- well, we were still living with my mother and father,

02:26:33.000 - 02:26:55.000

who never drank a drop in their life or smoked or cursed. And one night we went to this party, and I came home, and we were both clobbered. And we were in the next bedroom next to them, and I could hear almost anything. And I had to throw up.

02:26:55.000 - 02:27:23.000

And I knew I couldn't make it to the bathroom. So I opened the window, and fortunately it was raining, pouring down. And I threw up on this slanting roof, so it slid off the roof. And that was the extent of my drinking there.

02:27:23.000 - 02:27:47.000

So when I moved down here, I got in with two girls much younger than myself that I don't know whether I was just naive or stupid. And they drank a lot. One of them had a baby, and she used to carry the bottle in the baby--

02:27:47.000 - 02:27:57.000

what was in the carriage? One of those-- Baskin. No, walkers, you know. And we'd go into bars, and before we even got there, she'd pull out her bottle.

02:27:57.000 - 02:28:19.000

She was something else, a very pretty girl. And they had known each other since they were 13 years old, so they were pretty good buddies, and they always were in some kind of trouble. And so whatever they did, I followed along.

02:28:19.000 - 02:28:43.000

So it started out that I didn't drink a whole lot. Then I drank more and more, and I started drinking for breakfast, you know, just drinking all the time. I lived at this place over here called All Shucks then.

02:28:43.000 - 02:29:02.000

It's changed its name now--Aqua Grill now. I just lived over there. And even I volunteered at the Humane Society and used to take puppies from the Humane Society to the nursing homes.

02:29:02.000 - 02:29:16.000

That was very rewarding. I loved it, especially in the Alzheimer's ward, where the people would have a blank look on their face, and you put that puppy in their lap,

02:29:16.000 - 02:29:40.000

and they just came alive. I know because my mother died of Alzheimer's, and so did my aunt, and it's a sad thing to watch. And I also volunteered at the Hoof, Hounds, and Heart, it was called,

02:29:40.000 - 02:30:03.000

where we taught handicapped children how to ride. And there were a couple times there when I was a little bit tipsy while I was teaching the kids. And so finally the drinking just got way out of hand.

02:30:03.000 - 02:30:25.000

And one night I had the two of them in my car, and we went to this party. And they were both also on drugs, which is something I never did, but I did drink. And we went to this party and came out, and we were all loaded,

02:30:25.000 - 02:30:42.000

both of them much--I was, but they were much worse than I, if that's possible, it is. So I drove the one girl home, dropped her off, and I had left something in her trailer, so I got it, whatever it was,

02:30:42.000 - 02:30:59.000

and brought it back to the car. It was probably a bottle, I don't know. Anyway, the other girl was in my driver's seat, and I said, "I'm driving."

02:30:59.000 - 02:31:11.000

And she said, "No, you're not." I said, "It's my car." She said, "I'm in bad shape, but you're much worse off than I am, and you have no right driving my car."

02:31:11.000 - 02:31:23.000

Of course, it's easy for me to say that now, because all I had to do was get out of the car. That never occurred to me. So she's big and tough,

02:31:23.000 - 02:31:39.000

and I thought, "Well, she's going to turn this into a wrestling match." So I said, "Okay." And it was pouring down rain, and it was slippery, and the police said we were going 42 miles an hour,

02:31:39.000 - 02:31:58.000

which could have been a lot worse. But anyway, we hit a tree, skidded off the road and hit a tree, and it was all on my side, completely. She had a scratch right there.

02:31:58.000 - 02:32:10.000

And my head went through the windshield. That's where I got these scars. And the lower part of my body was fine. It was from here up, everything.

02:32:10.000 - 02:32:32.000

The shoulders were broken. The elbows were broken. The rib punctured my lung. I was in three different places for a total of three months of torture.

02:32:32.000 - 02:32:48.000

And they--hospitals cannot be kind, and they certainly weren't with me. And I was bandaged so that I couldn't use my hands. I was bandaged all the way.

02:32:48.000 - 02:33:07.000

In fact, by the time I went to the meetings, which I'll tell you about, they called me the claw lady because I wore this-- I had to wear these for I don't know how long, even to bed, that would keep my fingers straight because otherwise the rest of my life

02:33:07.000 - 02:33:33.000

I would have had a fist. I had to put these on there. But after I got out of the hospital, I went to look at the car. At the dump, it was still there, and I was in love with that car.

02:33:33.000 - 02:33:49.000

And her side was just like as neat as my living room. And it was like you're drawing a line right down the middle. And her side was crushed like an accordion, and then there was the hole where my head went through the windshield.

02:33:49.000 - 02:34:05.000

And it was shortly--in fact, the next day-- that nobody had to take me. My friend took me, but, I mean, she didn't-- nobody forced me to go to right up here.

02:34:05.000 - 02:34:29.000

It only takes eight minutes to get there to the Alcoholics Anonymous up at the Episcopal Church. And I've been going there ever since. Same room four times a week for an hour.

02:34:29.000 - 02:35:04.000

On Monday noon, Wednesday noon, Thursday night, and Saturday morning. And I've made wonderful friends. I have relapsed twice. It has taken me four years to get my two-year chip.

02:35:04.000 - 02:35:24.000

And it was--I twice relapsed, or slipped, as you call it, with my next-door neighbor, who's a much younger girl, and she can out-drink the world. And I think she still does, but I have to--

02:35:24.000 - 02:35:52.000

I just can't be with her, because both times I relapsed with her. And I always, always regretted it. And I--as they say, you always have to reach a bottom, which I did. And, of course, some of the women have reached a bottom in different ways.

02:35:52.000 - 02:36:18.000

You know, got arrested or put in jail or just-- I never was approached by a--I guess I was fortunate, lucky-- approached by a policeman. And I've just made some--

02:36:18.000 - 02:36:35.000

in November the 15th, I'll get my three-year chip. It's just wonderful. Now, you see people come and go. They can't always make it.

02:36:35.000 - 02:36:58.000

As far as I'm concerned, I'll be there till I croak. And my friends, gosh, I thank God every night, because we've all been through the same thing, and they have so much in common, like you do in the WASP.

02:36:58.000 - 02:37:10.000

That's why I have seen "League of Their Own." Remember that? Sixty-seven times I've seen it. I made a mark each time I saw it.

02:37:10.000 - 02:37:49.000

It reminds me so much of the closeness we had in the service. You've told us, but tell us again the story about how your hate has diminished. Well, I really hated this woman so much-- hate, loathe, despised, or any other word I can think of--

02:37:49.000 - 02:38:16.000

because of what she did to me. And I told that to our group. I couldn't eat. I had nightmares. Every day, all day, and all night was just her, her, her.

02:38:16.000 - 02:38:32.000

So I told this at one of the meetings, and this man who I admire so much-- he's been 23 years-- said, "Well, you just go home and get down on your knees

02:38:32.000 - 02:38:50.000

and pray for her." I said, "Pray for her? How can you pray for somebody you hate, loathe, and despise?" He said, "Well, you get down on your knees and you grit your teeth,

02:38:50.000 - 02:39:11.000

and it'll be hard at first, but in a couple weeks' time, it'll be easier. And this way, it'll help you so much." So I did as he said, and I got down on my hands and knees,

02:39:11.000 - 02:39:25.000

and I gritted-- grind--I really gritted my teeth. And at first, it was terrible. And then after a couple weeks, he was right.

02:39:25.000 - 02:39:42.000

It was easier, and it got easier. And I would be lying if I said, "It's all gone." The hate was way out here. It's still there, but it shrunk.

02:39:42.000 - 02:40:06.000

And then after I got another car, I was stopped at a red light. And I looked in the mirror, and there she was. She didn't know it was me. And if I had had a gun in that glove compartment,

02:40:06.000 - 02:40:32.000

I would have gotten out of the car and killed her. I know I would have. And then about three months ago, I was in Ace Hardware, and I was buying a turtle statue for my turtle patrol friend.

02:40:32.000 - 02:40:55.000

And I happened to look to my left, and she was sitting on a stool reading the paper. And I just put the turtle down and started shaking and wet. And I literally ran.

02:40:55.000 - 02:41:08.000

I didn't run out the door that was beside her. I ran out the other door. And I knew the manager very well. And I told him, I said, "This woman is certainly not going to stay with you.

02:41:08.000 - 02:41:24.000

She goes from job to job to job, and you better watch that cash register." And sure enough, it wasn't too long later that she told him that she had a sick mother and would be gone for a couple of weeks, and she never came back.

02:41:24.000 - 02:41:38.000

So I don't know where she is now. And he called me. He said, "She's gone. You can come back." So now I can go in there without worrying.

02:41:38.000 - 02:41:50.000

I think that story will help somebody. I hope so. Tell me now, Janet, how do you spend your time? Tell me about the turtle patrol first.

02:41:50.000 - 02:42:08.000

That starts first week in May around the corner, and it goes through about the first week of October at the latest. And we each take a day or two days. You choose your day.

02:42:08.000 - 02:42:29.000

I chose Saturday and Sunday like I've always had, but now I'm only going to walk on Sunday. He gave my Saturdays to someone else. They were people that had walked with us before, but they moved away.

02:42:29.000 - 02:42:39.000

And I don't think they should have their choice when they've been away and come back. But anyway, he gave them my Saturdays. So I'm just going to walk on Sundays,

02:42:39.000 - 02:43:02.000

and you get on the beach at 6 in the morning, and you're pretty much alone, so you feel like you own the beach. And there's a lot to it. I can't imagine how much there is to it, but it's very interesting.

02:43:02.000 - 02:43:20.000

The nests--I'll try to make a long story short. You can't miss them unless you're blind because they look like a tractor's been over it. They're so big, and they make an upside-down V.

02:43:20.000 - 02:43:44.000

They go up this way and come down this way, and you can tell by their tracks what kind of a turtle they are. We mostly--90%, 95% of them are loggerheads. Then there's the leatherback.

02:43:44.000 - 02:43:57.000

It's big, big, big. They all have a different pattern to their shells, so you learn which is which. Then there's a camp, which we never see.

02:43:57.000 - 02:44:17.000

That's the smallest. And then there's--oh, gosh--another one, which we never see. Ridley. We see a leatherback, which is the big one.

02:44:17.000 - 02:44:29.000

If we're lucky, twice a year. All the rest are loggerheads. They're smaller. Then what do you do? Do you chart them?

02:44:29.000 - 02:44:44.000

You put a sign up. You get arrested if you fool with them, and there's a big fine. Some people, you know, they want to sell their eggs. Or an animal.

02:44:44.000 - 02:45:07.000

You have about five or six predators--dogs, raccoons, armadillos. You dig up the nest. Ants. And then they hatch in 55 to 60 days.

02:45:07.000 - 02:45:30.000

Then you dig up the nests, and there are six categories, which I won't bother you with. And you write them all down, the live ones, the dead ones, and you send them in to the state so they have a record.

02:45:30.000 - 02:45:44.000

I wrote it down. You can't believe how many thousands in one year. Oh, I wrote it down. It's in the kitchen.

02:45:44.000 - 02:46:16.000

Okay. Good. Loggerhead nest, 69,657. Loggerhead hatchlings, 3,847,469.

02:46:16.000 - 02:46:36.000

How long do these turtles live? One in a thousand live to maturity. One in a thousand, which is 20 years old because of the predators. One in a thousand.

02:46:36.000 - 02:46:46.000

That's hard to believe. That's amazing. How long is your walk? It's four miles.

02:46:46.000 - 02:46:59.000

We're usually--if there's nothing involved, we're finished at 830. But then if there's a nest, that takes up time. You get on the beach at what time? Six in the morning.

02:46:59.000 - 02:47:20.000

Then if you dig up a nest, you have to do that at dusk because if you find a little live one at the bottom that never got out, he has to be in the dark, and you put him up at the top of the beach. Most people, if they find a little baby, they'll just put him in the water.

02:47:20.000 - 02:47:35.000

No, no. If you put them at the top of the beach, they walk all that way, they get more strength as they go down. Then the waves push them back nine or ten times, and then they finally make it.

02:47:35.000 - 02:47:51.000

If they're too weak, if you find them in the nests, which has happened to me on occasion, they won't make it. So you bring them home, and you just put them in a bucket of sand and put them in the dark.

02:47:51.000 - 02:48:10.000

So by the next night, they're stronger. Then you let them go the next night. So we had two here, the last I remember, my sponsor and I, and we took them down, and one of them was pretty weak.

02:48:10.000 - 02:48:26.000

We know the other one made it. I mean, he was fine, but the other one, there was no way, we put him there so he could die in the water. Wow.

02:48:26.000 - 02:48:44.000

You meet a lot of nice people, and our boss, he's the grandest thing. He is marvelous, and there isn't anything in the world that he doesn't know about turtles. Right. Is this a society that does this, or is it a--

02:48:44.000 - 02:48:57.000

It's just a turtle-- A group of caring people? A group of caring people, the Turtle Patrol, that's what it's called. We have some newcomers.

02:48:57.000 - 02:49:15.000

It changes because people move away, new people become interested. We have a couple from our meetings, husband and wife, that are going to start walking. And then what else do you do with your time, Jan?

02:49:15.000 - 02:49:53.000

The turtles, the meetings, the exercise classes, and going to-- I usually go to the country club once or twice a week with my friends, have lunch, then as a group we have a luncheon with the exercise group. There are 20 of us.

02:49:53.000 - 02:50:13.000

We meet at the country club one month, and the Marriott the next month, different place each month. And I'm on the building committee, and so is my sister, for a new senior center.

02:50:13.000 - 02:50:38.000

So we're just starting, and we're giving out these flyers to everybody that's over 55. And we have a fellow that he's on the building committee. We're either going to use one of these empty buildings back here on Truslow,

02:50:38.000 - 02:50:58.000

or else build a building of our own. So we're meeting once a month for that. As far as your WASP friends, do you still have close friends that you were in training with or afterwards?

02:50:58.000 - 02:51:29.000

My closest friends are all deceased. I'm the only one left in my bay. I have two friends that I knew in my class that live down here at Palm Coast, and the other one I can't remember.

02:51:29.000 - 02:51:53.000

She just moved from Palm Coast. We're good friends, and we get together, but not frequently. We were just a couple months ago, we had the Florida reunion at Titusville, and I went with both of them.

02:51:53.000 - 02:52:07.000

Have you been active as far as the WASP conventions and things that the organization does? Not really. I've been to seven of them.

02:52:07.000 - 02:52:29.000

I counted them. There's some, like Mary, whom I was very close to, Mary Breidenbach, I don't believe she's ever missed one. No, I counted them when I was filling that out,

02:52:29.000 - 02:52:54.000

and I've really only been to about seven of them, maybe more. Let me ask you, of all the things that you have ever done, and you've certainly lived a full life, of all those things, what is the one thing that you're most proud of?

02:52:54.000 - 02:53:19.000

Being a WASP. What is your personal opinion of Jacqueline Cochran? Well, things were said about her, like I think every famous person is not loved by everybody.

02:53:19.000 - 02:53:49.000

But I admired her for what she's done. I have nothing that I can say that is not good, regardless of any of those stories. She did a lot for us, and she was a very--

02:53:49.000 - 02:54:15.000

she was a pioneer, like my father. What do you feel the legacy of the WASP will be? Oh, that's--I don't know how to put things into words. That's very hard for me to answer.

02:54:15.000 - 02:54:33.000

I just don't know how to word it. Okay, then let me ask you, what do you think the WASP accomplished? Everything. I mean, I remember--well, you know, people said, "Oh, men flying.

02:54:33.000 - 02:54:49.000

Oh, this is impossible." Well, we made everything possible. We proved it, like when the men were afraid to fly the B-29. You remember that?

02:54:49.000 - 02:55:17.000

And so easily to catch fire or something. I can't quite remember what it was. But when they saw the WASP fly it, they couldn't refuse. I don't know.

02:55:17.000 - 02:55:35.000

We were out to prove something, that women could fly anything, and we did it. What do you think your legacy will be? I don't know. Would you like me to describe my tombstone?

02:55:35.000 - 02:55:47.000

Sure. It's right over here at the Palm Valley Cemetery. I had it shipped down from Maryland because I didn't know I was coming down here. My sister's next to me.

02:55:47.000 - 02:56:01.000

Her husband's already there. And I don't know what's going to be written on there. I'll leave that up probably to my nephew. He's so good with words.

02:56:01.000 - 02:56:16.000

He should have been a minister. There's a picture of a book, and there's a picture of a horse. I mean, these are carved. And a picture of an airplane.

02:56:16.000 - 02:56:33.000

And that's my life. Says it all. So I'm ready. Every time I go by, I go by there from--you'll laugh--from the Y, where I take my exercise class.

02:56:33.000 - 02:56:59.000

Every time I go by, I wave. If you could say something to children 50 years from now, or when they're watching this video, what would you like to say to them that might encourage them or inspire them? I could say two things.

02:56:59.000 - 02:57:16.000

My father taught me to always have goals. It was more or less drilled into me. You make a goal and you reach it. Then you make another goal and you reach it.

02:57:16.000 - 02:57:42.000

And every goal I made, just like he said, I wanted to fly, I flew. I wanted to act, I acted. I was championship at tennis, at golf. Everything I set a goal to, I did until my accident.

02:57:42.000 - 02:58:00.000

That was the goal. I don't know how to put it. I mean, it was never meant to be, because that wasn't my goal. I didn't want to become a drunk, but I did.

02:58:00.000 - 02:58:29.000

I remember my first--I was invited to my high school right after we came home from the service. They asked me to speak. I spoke about the service. At the end, I said, "You don't realize it, but we'll be going to the moon.

02:58:29.000 - 02:58:44.000

And it's going to happen soon. And one day, you'll probably be living up there." And they all laughed. But that's the closest--

02:58:44.000 - 02:58:59.000

What year was that? '45. We came home in '44, so it was probably '45. I'm sure it was right after I got home.

02:58:59.000 - 02:59:22.000

And all I can say is, just make a goal. And just do your very best to reach it. And when you get there, make another one. It works.

02:59:22.000 - 02:59:43.000

Throughout lifetimes, we all have good times and bad and happy times and sad times. What has gotten you through those sad times? God. I think that's a wonderful place to leave it.

02:59:43.000 - 02:59:57.000

Is there anything that you would like to say, any event that happened or any story you would like to have on this video? Anything I've left out? I think I'm just about--

02:59:57.000 - 03:00:12.000

After you leave, I'll probably think of something. Can I ask, because the WASPs that were killed during training and who can't be here to tell their story, can you tell us what Barbara Erikson was like?

03:00:12.000 - 03:00:20.000

Like my mother was. Yeah. Same personality. Sweet.

03:00:20.000 - 03:00:41.000

Gentle. There wasn't a mean bone in her body. She was just great. She wasn't outgoing or--

03:00:41.000 - 03:01:00.000

She was just a plain, sweet person and always did her best. Never was lousy or bragging. Never was--what's the word? Loud or bragging.

03:01:00.000 - 03:01:18.000

Just--you don't meet-- She was as close to perfect as you can be. When she was killed, do you remember anything about what benefits or anything? Did you have to pick up a collection or anything?

03:01:18.000 - 03:01:37.000

No. I'm pretty sure it was hers, but I couldn't-- I know that we had to pay for all of them going home. That, yes.

03:01:37.000 - 03:01:55.000

I couldn't, and I was supposed to go, too, but I couldn't. I just didn't have the heart, I guess. I just felt I was too emotional. So they sent somebody that wasn't quite so close.

03:01:55.000 - 03:02:02.000

You had the heart. That's the problem, you had the heart. Okay, let me switch gears. I'm going to switch gears.

03:02:02.000 - 03:02:17.000

You talked about a pilot that you did with B.J. Lee. Can you tell me about that? I don't know what year it was. And what it was about.

03:02:17.000 - 03:02:54.000

It was like that other show where you meet somebody that you haven't seen for a long time. It was--I remember when Mary--the two of them were called out first and introduced and all, and then they called me, and I wasn't supposed to, but I took a big bow and I went up and I shook both their hands. There was another show that was really copying a previous show.

03:02:54.000 - 03:03:12.000

Like "This is Your Life?" Or like a person you hadn't seen that had been lost and all of a sudden found or something. But then they asked us all kinds of questions, and they were supposed to ask--are we on now? Mm-hmm.

03:03:12.000 - 03:03:32.000

Oh. Only each of us questions, but I don't remember answering any. I mean-- Okay.

03:03:32.000 - 03:03:41.000

Well, okay, now this is going way back. This is another question. You said you moved to Hollywood. Could that move have had anything to do with the fact that you were acting?

03:03:41.000 - 03:03:48.000

Did you move there? No, it had nothing to do with acting. It didn't have anything to do--okay. I don't remember.

03:03:48.000 - 03:03:55.000

I just wondered. Were you in the Union? My sister could tell you in a minute. Do you remember being in the Union?

03:03:55.000 - 03:04:05.000

No. That was back probably before the Union. Okay, I'm going to turn this off. Well, I just want to know if there is anything else that I'm missing.

03:04:05.000 - 03:04:11.000

Oh, gosh. I don't know what to say. I know what I want to say. What?

03:04:11.000 - 03:04:22.000

I think she was absolutely right when she yelled down those stairs and said, "This is a winner. You're going to love her." And we have.

03:04:22.000 - 03:04:32.000

I just can't thank you enough. As she said, it's been worth the trip if we don't get to interview anybody else. My Lord. This has been wonderful.

03:04:32.000 - 03:04:37.000

Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

03:04:37.000 - 03:04:51.000

I'm sure today some children are going to really enjoy listening to you. Okay. You have a lot to share. I have a--

03:04:51.000 - 03:05:05.000

Which tape do I have of the Wasp? Listen, you said you went to San Antonio. You were at San Antonio. Did you go to the luncheon at Lackland?

03:05:05.000 - 03:05:13.000

Do you recall? Do you remember seeing Julie Jenner kick her leg up in the air? Yeah. Yeah.

03:05:13.000 - 03:05:21.000

Do you remember the rap song? We got the stuff. Yeah. I wrote it.

03:05:21.000 - 03:05:25.000

She recorded it. No kidding. That's my song. Yes.

03:05:25.000 - 03:05:33.000

Yeah, I remember that. It was darling. Yeah. Well, when that convention happened,

03:05:33.000 - 03:05:45.000

that was the first convention that I really got involved in, and they asked me to be in charge of the luncheon. So I said to Nancy, "I wanted something different." I said, "We all--they have speakers for everything,

03:05:45.000 - 03:05:57.000

so I want to do something different." And Nancy's a songwriter also. One of her majors was music. So all of a sudden one day I said to her, "Nancy, I've got an idea.

03:05:57.000 - 03:06:10.000

I want you to write a rap song for the luncheon." And she said, "Mother, rap is not music. If you want it written, you write it." So I did.

03:06:10.000 - 03:06:16.000

Well, I remember it. Everybody loved it. We all shouted and cheered. Right.

03:06:16.000 - 03:06:26.000

So I started writing, and for some reason God just gave me those words. I've never written anything in my life, and they just came out. Never written anything since? Never written anything since?

03:06:26.000 - 03:06:37.000

Yeah. Well, she said it to the beat. Once I started out, I started out with, "Way out in West Texas where the water is sweet, where the rattlesnakes and cactus are six feet deep.

03:06:37.000 - 03:06:44.000

They cut off the top of a big old hill and they named it Avenger. Avenger Field. What a field. Too dusty.

03:06:44.000 - 03:06:54.000

Not fit for humans." Anyway, so I got that much of it, and then took it to her and said, "Here, you know, here's--I'd written, written, written."