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>> Something else, just go ahead and I will bring you back to where I was so that we keep it a little bit in chrono. But we're just going to talk and it's your story, so you tell what you want to. If there's something I ask you that you're not comfortable with, say let's move on.

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>> There are no skeletons in my closet that I know of. >> Right. >> Take that annual pass and I was off and running. >> Okay. I'm going to ask you about that.

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Okay. Rolling. I'm Deanie Parrish. This morning we're interviewing Eleanor Pyle. She was a WASP, class 43-3.

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We are in the conference room of a motel in Merrill, Wisconsin. Today is July 30, 2001. Okay, Eleanor, if you'll start off by telling us your name and when and where you were born.

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>> You want my whole maiden name? >> You bet. >> Eleanor Weddington Owen. And I was born in Muskogee, Oklahoma, December 13th, '22.

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What else? >> Okay. Let me ask you, tell us something about your mom and dad. >> Well, my father was born in Arkansas, went to business school in Texas.

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I think it was Waco, but I'm not sure. I've heard several names mentioned. Went to work for the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad and he met my mother.

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He boarded at her mother's rooming house. My grandfather was 19 years older than grandmother, so that left grandmother a widow at age 42. And in that day and age, what they earned their money

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I was having a boarding house and dad roomed there and I don't know where. I don't know what place that was in. But mother was born in Tennessee, Troy, Tennessee. The family moved to Oklahoma when it was still Indian territory and I don't know why, but

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they did. My father owned a lumber mill, had his leg cut off. And that's about all I know about. I never met my grandparents because they were dead.

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I knew my grandmother, my maternal grandmother. Where did she live when you were a child? My grandmother? McAllister, Oklahoma. That was one of our tracking points.

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I lived in Muskogee and McAllister, I've forgotten. under 100 miles south of there. Her son worked for the same. Well, he worked for Rock Island and Missouri, Kansas and Texas.

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He was telegraph operator. And we used to go down there for Thanksgiving and Christmas and summer vacations. And well, it got to be more of a place I like to go because, you know,

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interesting mother's sister married dad's brother and they lived in Bonham, Texas. And when the depression hit, they came up to McAllister to live with my grandmother. And Uncle Bob went to New Orleans. He worked in the shipyards. But my cousin was nine months older than I, the closest one, and we were great pals. So I used to

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take the annual pass and go down there. And we would visit more often than the three times a year I mentioned. Tell me, what are your very earliest remembrances? Where did you live?

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Miss Coggey? Miss Coggey. You won't believe this, and I can't know how old I was. I remember being in a crib.

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I think I had a diaper on, I don't know, but I remember Mother and my sister came to the door with a bottle of milk, and they gave it to me, and I threw it over the side on the floor. Now, that's all I remember about it at that age, but that's my earliest recollection of

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Do you have brothers and sisters? None alive, and I have no brothers. I had one sister four years older than I, and she died in '67. Dad--mother died.

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Dad died in--well, I don't know, late '60s, '67 maybe. My sister died in maybe '65. He died '67. Mother died '69 or '70, somewhere in there.

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I don't know the exact dates. Your earliest remembrance as a child, where did you live? In a town or did you live out in the country? We had, we lived in a new development and it was a wonderful memory. They built houses then, the bungalows, instead of building them crosswise on the lot the way they do now,

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they built them lengthwise. You entered the living room, dining room behind it, kitchen behind that. And then to the left there's bedroom and bedroom and bath. We had, I don't know, the lot itself was not real wide, but Dad had two lots there. We were east of Muskogee, I have no idea, maybe five, ten miles toward Fort Gibson.

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But I remember that yard and the Oklahoma climate was nice. Now, remember the flowers Mother grew. She had rose bushes and jonfal. Dad had a vegetable garden in the back,

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and I had my little garden patch. And a lot of kids in the neighborhood. We played train up and down the sidewalk. It was well improved.

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And of course, the most exciting time for living there was a geyser. The water main broke out in the road. And we had a geyser that shot up in the air about 50 or 60 feet,

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and that was just totally fascinating. But we had a lot of fun there. Right. To do shopping, did your mom have to go into Muskogee?

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Or were there-- There was a little store. We used to go. I remember she used to let us have a nickel every Saturday.

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That was all the candy and sweet stuff we got. And it was a little store about halfway to town that she did her shopping. She did all of it there, the meat and everything else.

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Of course, Dad grew the vegetables and I don't recall her canning much. She made us learn to like everything. She made us eat one tablespoon of everything, never allowed us to say we didn't like it. The only thing I don't like are cucumbers and that's because I ate all that was left

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and I got sick on them. Where did you start school? In Muskogee, Irving School. Went to the fourth grade.

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Depression hit. Ed was laid off and he was sort of in between for a while. I remember he was everything from a railroad flagman to—well, it didn't last long, a couple of weeks maybe.

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Then he bumped up the line on the Union and Kansas City and St. Louis. I remember he went up there for interviews and to look over the job and he decided on Kansas City. So we moved there.

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What grade were you in then? Fifth grade. Fifth grade. While you were in the Muskogee area, I know that's Indian territory, do you remember seeing

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any Indians? Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Okay.

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When you were growing up, what was a Christmas like at your house? Meager. We didn't have a lot of money. Dad was not a good financial person.

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And he was, well, he was too good hearted. Two or three fellas in the office wanted to make loans and Dad co-signed for them. And the impression hit and guess who paid for them? So we didn't have an awful lot.

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Dad made a good salary, not exorbitant, but it was certainly adequate for us. But we didn't get to use it because he was paying off these loans. Did you have a Christmas tree? Yes, we had a Christmas tree and we usually had two or three gifts, but it was nothing

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elaborate. Do you remember any special gift that you got? No, not particularly. Would your grandmother come for Christmas?

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No. And neither would my aunt that lived in Bonham, Texas, but they always sent a box with little trinkets or something in it. Okay, then let's go back to Thanksgiving when you would go to Bonham. No, we went to McAllister and I remember we had a roasting chicken and I usually,

00:09:04.280 - 00:09:27.000

when did I get the neck? I like the neck. I usually got the neck of it anyway. Well, that wasn't all. I got, you know, sliced meat but I always got that to chew on. Right, and when you would go to your aunt's for Thanksgiving, who else would be there? Well, my grandmother lived with her son, who was the telegraph operator there, and his

00:09:27.170 - 00:09:38.120

wife. His wife was Indian. I don't know if she was full blood, but grandmother never liked her because she had Indian blood. And Aunt Vernon was just about as nice a person as you could ever want.

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But the whole family had it in for her just because she was Indian. My family was prejudiced and they were prejudiced against beauticians. That wasn't a lofty job. I don't know who they thought they were.

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And a waitress or a waiter, they looked down on them. Black people, well they had, they called them darkies, they had them working for them, you know, in Tennessee. I guess my grandmother had quite a bit of money with that sawmill going out in Tennessee

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and they had a colored family, a Negro family that worked for them and she and the little girl were playmates. But I don't know, when I remember anything said, when we lived there in Oklahoma it was discriminating.

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Right. Did you ever get to visit in Tennessee? No. No. Okay. As in your early grade school, how far did you live from school? Oh, five or six blocks and I walked to school.

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Okay. Had to cross the railroad tracks. Okay. Well, in the wintertime, did it get really cold there? Not in Oklahoma, no.

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Right. would get some snow but it would be light snow and didn't amount to much. In those first up until the fifth grade do you recall any of your teachers? I recall the fourth grade teacher and I don't remember her name but I remember she was a

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large woman who had blonde hair, kind of short, and she would wheel the paddle against, there was one little boy named Gerald, I don't remember his last name, but he was forever getting paddled for something. That poor kid, I felt so sorry for him. But I don't know, I was, I wouldn't say I was her pet, but I got treated very, very well there. I'll

00:11:38.340 - 00:12:01.500

tell you, I do not have a good handwriting. I don't think I ever did. We were, we were coached on writing. We had our ovals and the push-pulls. Yeah, but and she had me as a demonstrator at one time, and I couldn't figure out why my My writing was not that good. Now my husband had beautiful handwriting, but I have no artistic

00:12:02.040 - 00:12:27.960

instinct whatsoever. Mechanics are more my brain function. How large was that school? Do you remember how large your class was? Well, I would say that class probably had about 30 children in it. It was not a small school. Muskogee had about 30 to 35,000 people in it when I lived there. And yeah, I was a pretty nice size.

00:12:27.960 - 00:12:39.980

- Muskogee essentially was an oil, oil field. - I imagine, because I remember dad and mother bought a Dodge car and it sat up high the way they do today. You know, the cars sitting up high.

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And mother said that was because it was used in the oil fields to raise the body up. - When you moved from Muskogee, when you're in fifth grade or thereabouts,

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How did you feel about having to change schools? >> I didn't think too much about it. The only thing I felt bad about, we had to leave our dog Pat at home.

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Yeah. Poor Pat. He was a small collie type dog, probably a mixed breed. And, you know, little kids, they're companions. I had a cat named Timothy Titus.

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See, we learned to read in the second and third grade. And we learned our bells. I remember my, what was it, 1B teacher standing up there with cards with the capital letter A

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and the small letter A on the other side. And she made us say A and then the other sound of the small A. And she went through the whole alphabet like that every day. So we learned, I'll have to say, I don't say it's the best way,

00:13:43.100 - 00:13:54.880

I'm a slow reader. And I think if I had a little speed reading pushing it along, I could have done a lot better. Do you recall when you moved, how you moved? Did they have moving vans?

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They moved us, and I remember it went by railroad car. I don't know what hauled it down to the railroad car. I don't remember seeing. It must have been a van of some kind, a truck. Then when you moved, where did you move to?

00:14:11.480 - 00:14:26.340

Independence, Missouri. Dad liked the small town idea. and Kansas City was pretty big. It was 250,000 even then. Now I understand it's in the millions, but nonetheless it was 250,000 then.

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So Independence was about like Marylisle to Wausau. It was about 15 miles east of Kansas City. They had bus service and paved highway, of course. Everything was good.

00:14:42.400 - 00:14:59.760

And Dad used to have to ride the bus. I went into the eighth grade, and then we moved to the city because it was just too strenuous. Dad worked in Kansas City, Kansas, which went all the way through Kansas City to the other

00:14:59.820 - 00:15:18.520

side. He was in the yard office, and it was too hard on him to travel so much, so he had to transfer a couple of times. So we moved to Kansas City and moved to one block east of State Line Avenue so that he

00:15:18.600 - 00:15:32.340

did not have so far to go. And then I went to Westport High, which I guess is still in existence there. Do you recall any of your teachers in high school that might have influenced you? Just one man.

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My name, I just cannot remember names at all, but I remember I loved math. I always loved math. And this was, I don't know if it was algebra, what grade would it have been? Well, I left there in the eighth grade, so it would have been about the eighth grade.

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And he wasn't the first teacher. Mr. Feinberg or something, it was a German name, was my first teacher. And I really liked him. He was good.

00:16:02.920 - 00:16:10.940

But at any rate, then another teacher took over. And he was good. I'd like to have had him from the beginning. He called it mental gymnastics.

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We'd come into class and he'd throw a whole bunch of crazy questions. Add, divide, to the fifth power, on and on and on. He'd go, "What's the answer?" he'd say.

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And oddly enough, a couple of the kids had learned to do that. But I came in late in the class, or he came in late in our class, I don't know which. So I never really got into that. But I wish I had.

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I think that's a good thing. Right. In high school, did you do other activities other than your academic? Sports. I always loved sports. I was into basketball and baseball, anything they had going. And I walked to and from school. In Kansas City, I had to walk about, I think, two and a half miles, if you count it by blocks.

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It wasn't that far as distance goes. But I remember walking in winter and summer, or spring. In the sports, were you ever on a team in high school or was it just individuals playing? I sure don't remember that. We had teams playing, but none after school that I can recall.

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My girlfriend and I were into tennis. We played a lot of tennis. So we did a lot of sports. In gym, we had a really good gym class.

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We had field hockey and baseball and tennis, basketball, volleyball, and I don't know, something else. But we even had some dancing in there, different kinds of dancing. Were you interested in any particular partner?

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Partner? Dancing partner? Oh, I had crushes on boys all through high school, but they never came around. I don't know.

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I was going to ask you, what was your social life like? Didn't really have a social life in high school. My girlfriend, Betty Parney, she was from Arkansas, and she and her brother, well, I paled around with them, and later on, when I got to be about 16, I dated her brother

00:18:15.740 - 00:18:23.840

a couple of times. Nothing romantic, but we just were together. We were kind of pals. And the one guy, he got killed in the war, too.

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I really liked him a lot. And I don't know why. He wasn't especially handsome. But he was an awfully good tennis player.

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He and his twin brother. And his twin brother, I was really hooked on him. And oddly enough, later on, when I was in Lawrence, Kansas, he was there going to college.

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And I guess we had some casual dates. But he wasn't any fun then. He was a big disappointment. He was dull.

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>> Really was, but I thought he was real romantic when we were in high school. Well, he and his brother were into tennis, winning championships and playing all kinds of tournaments. >> Okay.

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Was there any other thing you were interested in in high school, music or speech or drama? >> The newspaper. I was on the newspaper for a while. Not any major thing, but...

00:19:21.410 - 00:19:31.960

>> As a writer or... Well, I think I contributed some. I don't recall being very active in that. I had too much going otherwise, and being that far from school

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was kind of hard to be there very much. Eleanor, who were your role models when you were growing up? At what age?

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Any age. Who influenced you the most? Well, this is going to sound stupid, and especially world, but Jesus Christ was my role model, and still is.

00:20:03.400 - 00:20:22.340

But I used to, and then later on, this was later on in life when I heard, I read or heard something about a girl wanting to go to a bar with her boyfriend, and she asked her father if she could go, and he says, "Yes, if you'll take Jesus with you." And that stuck in my head.

00:20:24.160 - 00:20:38.180

And I don't know, I don't know really when all of that got started because I was never a church goer. My mother was Presbyterian and my grandmother was too I guess. But she and dad never went.

00:20:38.480 - 00:21:01.860

Now dad had an interesting background because his father, well he had a general store for one thing and he left that for the boys to run. He got interested in alternative healing. Later on he rode on horseback all over the state treating people.

00:21:02.360 - 00:21:25.020

I don't know all too much about that, but in his travels he met this guy Russell who was the forerunner of Jehovah's Witnesses and he got into that religious concept. Mother said, well in fact, Dad never did keep Christmas or Thanksgiving, anything like, well Thanksgiving but not Christmas.

00:21:25.380 - 00:21:45.200

Of course he was working nearly all the time anyway. He worked on holidays. But at any rate, that's, it's just interesting that that became that and as a matter of fact, as I told you before, Dad's brother married Mother's sister and there's only two survivors

00:21:45.200 - 00:22:04.020

from that family. And one, she's 86, she lives in Colorado, Lakewood, it's a Denver suburb. And her father was my Uncle Bob, Dad's brother. And he got her interested, and she belongs to Bible Students now, and they originated

00:22:04.080 - 00:22:18.580

in England under Queen Victoria. But they follow, well, you don't dare tell her she's like Jehovah's Witnesses. She will throw you out of the house. They don't like to be identified that way, but actually they believe an awful lot of

00:22:18.600 - 00:22:31.620

the same things. So I never went that route. I studied into it a while, but I never bought their ideas quite that much. Do you recall your high school prom?

00:22:32.600 - 00:22:39.520

I don't think I went. Did I go? Yeah, I did too go. I went with my girlfriend's brother, Bob Perny.

00:22:41.940 - 00:22:52.820

And what were your ambitions when you were in high school? Flying. That started- When did you first get that idea?

00:22:52.820 - 00:23:03.020

Well I think it started when I was about five years old. I remember, see we had a county fair there in Muskogee and dad and mother used to go and they'd take us. And I'll never forget that.

00:23:03.020 - 00:23:25.840

We were standing there watching an airplane take off and when it made so much noise I ran behind dad and grabbed him around the knees, you know. me to death. And I don't remember anything between that and the time when I was in Independence, Missouri. And anytime an airplane came over, I'd go out and watch it. And all the dates that I had

00:23:26.340 - 00:23:49.700

were flying dates or airplane dates. We used to go to the airport. We'd go out in the car, let's go down to the airport and we'd go watch the airplanes come in. So I have always had that love of flying and I couldn't tell you why. I've asked myself that a hundred thousand times. What in the world got me interested in flying? I don't know. It was

00:23:49.780 - 00:24:10.660

just there, a basic love and I wouldn't turn loose of it. And I know Dad, well I dropped out of college, I only had one year, dropped out of college. Dad said well I'll pay for college but I'm not planning for any flying lessons. So I I went to work, paid for my own flying lessons.

00:24:12.600 - 00:24:29.740

Did you know when you graduated, well first let me ask you about your high school graduation, what was that like? Well it wasn't real exciting or romantic because I wasn't dating anybody in high school. The only one I was interested in was somebody from the airport and that wanted to watch

00:24:29.780 - 00:24:46.000

airplanes with me. Did you have caps and gowns? No, we had graduation dresses. I remember mine was white organza over a pale blue slip, had white butterflies embroidered

00:24:46.080 - 00:24:54.680

on the skirt of it. Neat. When you graduated, did you know where you were going? Had you planned to go to college?

00:24:55.420 - 00:25:09.260

Yeah. Just while I was going to start out there, I thought I wanted to be a journalist. I had toyed with a couple of ideas. I toyed with advertising, that appealed to me too, and being a journalist appealed to

00:25:09.360 - 00:25:33.100

me. So that's what I was toying with while I went to Kansas City Junior College, which was a very high-ranked college, and as I say, only stayed the one year. While you were in school, did your parents participate in any of the activities of school?

00:25:33.160 - 00:25:41.280

No. What did your mom do when your dad worked all the time? Kept house and baked. She loved to cook.

00:25:41.840 - 00:25:47.160

And mother always baked a lot of things. Do you remember anything special? That she baked? Uh-huh.

00:25:47.320 - 00:26:01.460

Everything. I remember Friday nights, we had, she got fish because Catholic people liked fish and it was always fresh. And we had, when we had fish, we always had spinach and lemon meringue pie.

00:26:01.820 - 00:26:12.320

That was the whole meal. Sounds good. Okay, when you graduated, how did you get from home to the junior college? Was it near?

00:26:12.800 - 00:26:21.980

No. It was downtown Kansas City. And oh, I don't know how far out it was. Anyway, I had to take a streetcar in, because that is what they ran then.

00:26:22.160 - 00:26:32.340

Later they had trolleybuses. They were getting those in about that time. But the streetcar ran by our house. That is what I went.

00:26:33.820 - 00:26:48.760

Kelly: At the junior college, do you still have friends that you met? Steele: No. I do not even remember who was in my classes. But at the end of the year you decided to drop out of school?

00:26:49.160 - 00:27:01.640

No, I didn't decide that. A neighbor that lived in back of us was a tower operator at Lawrence, Kansas. And he came over and he asked Mother, he said he knew I was interested in flying. I don't know where he heard that.

00:27:02.440 - 00:27:18.560

But at any rate, he wanted to know, wanted her permission and Dad's permission to let me go to Lawrence, Kansas to work in the tower over there. And so they said, "Okay." He said he had a friend who would get me a room.

00:27:18.860 - 00:27:40.640

She was a really nice lady, too. And funny thing, though, the roommate I had later on found out that she was lesbian. She never bothered me any. In fact, she was in one of the others because she had a boyfriend that she'd go spend

00:27:40.640 - 00:27:56.380

weekend with every so often, but still in all, she claimed she was a lesbian. I don't know, I never discussed the matter with her a whole lot. Well, it didn't really interest me either. How far was that from your family when you went to Mars?

00:27:56.380 - 00:28:10.300

Oh, let's see, sixty miles? Wasn't real far. I came back, when I came back for my private pilot physical, I know I rode the bus back into Kansas City where I had to take it.

00:28:10.340 - 00:28:18.680

Okay. Describe your job at Lawrence. Tower operator? Well, it was a training school then.

00:28:19.340 - 00:28:29.280

What was it? CAP Training School or something. And they had Waco airplanes there. I made friends with one of the instructors.

00:28:29.720 - 00:28:39.440

He took me up riding in that Waco airplane, I know. And it was a nice airplane. Right. At any rate...

00:28:41.500 - 00:29:01.480

After that, when did you start taking flying lessons? Oh, I took that in Kansas City. As soon as I got out of college, as soon as I had the money, I started taking lessons. Got on the streetcar and went down to the airport and started taking lessons then, but I didn't have too many hours in and I had trouble soloing.

00:29:02.240 - 00:29:19.660

Nobody... they wanted me to, I guess, show that I was ready to solo and I didn't do that. I was kind of a dependent person there. So finally there was one redheaded instructor and he took me out to one of these alternate fields and went around a few times.

00:29:19.780 - 00:29:32.120

I guess he thought I was safe. Then he said, "Get in and get going." So I did and I bounced it in a few times. But after I made two or three attempts, I came in on a pretty decent landing.

00:29:32.600 - 00:29:45.780

What kind of airplane was that? Oh boy, it was not a Cub. Ironica? Ironica.

00:29:47.360 - 00:30:01.560

That is what it was. It had a little heavier horsepower, a 65-horsepower engine. Did you have any idea of what you wanted to do when you were learning to fly? I did not know what there was to do.

00:30:01.600 - 00:30:14.840

I was open for anything as long as it was fine. Did you know any other girls who were flying? No. You know, there's one thing that I forgot to mention that when we were at that

00:30:18.020 - 00:30:31.000

fair down in Muskogee at the time I told you I was so frightened. I remember one thing about that show. Some woman, and I've been trying to think who could that woman have been. See this was about

00:30:35.960 - 00:31:05.460

1928, I wasn't very old, 22 to 26 years old, yeah I was about 28 or 29. At any rate, she did 32 slow rolls and I remember that, now why that sticks in my head, I don't know, except I watched her do them and I wasn't very impressed, but I just saw that she was rolling over and over and over, you know, and they, over the loudspeaker, they made quite a bit of it.

00:31:06.620 - 00:31:23.820

But I've often wondered who that woman was. I have no idea. So, at any rate. When you went over to Lawrence and started working in the tower, then how often, you had already soloed, right? Yes. And then how often did you get to fly over there?

00:31:24.660 - 00:31:36.920

And was that I don't think I did it I don't really think I did the next thing I applied for since I wasn't sure what I wanted to do I applied For

00:31:38.740 - 00:31:52.560

Air traffic control and I was accepted and sent down to Dallas And I went through about well I also that I guess at that time it had opened up about the wasps

00:31:52.740 - 00:32:09.600

Well, what'd they call them wafts in and all they weren't wafts Well, anyway, whatever they were called That information came out and I applied for that As I say, I lied about it and I was 18 and at that time, I think you had to be 19

00:32:11.080 - 00:32:29.660

I know I was a year too young and Not only that they wanted you to have 150 hours and I had 55 And believe me, when I got down to Houston, I spent practically every night wide awake, mentally doing these maneuvers in my head, so when it got daytime, I'd know how to do

00:32:29.760 - 00:32:42.640

them. And I made it okay. Let me ask you, where you were and what you remember about Pearl Harbor? Well, let's see, it happened, I guess, when I was in Kansas City.

00:32:44.600 - 00:32:53.460

I remember hearing about it, but I didn't understand it really. So I don't think I was totally impressed. It was one of these events. It was like the Berlin Wall coming down.

00:32:53.460 - 00:33:09.000

I wasn't there and I know it happened and that's about it. Kelly: So where were you when you heard about the WASP training program? Steele: Probably in the tower operator job. Probably then.

00:33:09.360 - 00:33:20.540

Kelly: Okay. But then how long was it before you were, that you applied for training and how did you do that? >>It was a form.

00:33:21.480 - 00:33:26.880

It was like your questionnaire. It was a form we had to fill out. What was that? That was civil service.

00:33:27.920 - 00:33:36.900

That's how that came out. And I don't know how I got wind of that. Whether it was in the newspaper. Our newspapers were terrifically good there in Kansas City, I know.

00:33:37.580 - 00:33:52.260

But I don't remember what brought it to my attention was civil service. Let me ask you how your mom and dad felt when they found out you were flying. They were devastated. Of course, later on when I was actually flying and the war was on, mother was real proud

00:33:52.340 - 00:34:01.280

of me. But when they knew I was going to fly, they were crushed, absolutely crushed, both of them. Everybody thought I was nuts.

00:34:01.640 - 00:34:15.500

But I was always the outlaw of the family, as you could probably detect from the beginning. I was out being the tomboy and my sister went to sororities and parties and gave luncheons and that sort of thing. So I was always the outlaw.

00:34:17.160 - 00:34:39.520

When you received word that you could apply for training, what happened next? I got the word when I lived there at Lawrence. Well first of all, as I said, I was accepted into air traffic control training. through about half of that. That was interesting. I enjoyed that. That would be a nerve-wracking

00:34:39.660 - 00:34:59.180

job though. And I never got into the real serious. I only went about halfway through it. And then found out that I was accepted into the WASP. And what did they call them then? It wasn't WAFs. No, it was the WFTD, I believe. Women's Flying Training Detachment.

00:34:59.400 - 00:35:09.980

could be. At any rate, I was told to report to Houston. Did you have to have an interview? No. A physical?

00:35:11.200 - 00:35:22.240

Physical, yes. I remember that physical. Tell us about that. There wasn't anything unusual about it. I came through it with flying colors. I've always been healthy, so I never had a problem with a physical.

00:35:23.620 - 00:35:42.380

So the only time I had a problem was when I went over to, now this backs up a little again, when I went over to get my physical for my private license, I ate a box of candy on the way to Kansas City and it didn't come through very good on the test. So I had to take the test over again.

00:35:44.340 - 00:36:05.440

But other than that, no, I've never had a problem with my... Well, I just thought an army officer giving you a physical, if that was a little... Well, I'm used to male doctors. I still have a male doctor. Yeah, they don't bother me at all. And when your mom and dad found out you were going to Texas to go into this program?

00:36:06.360 - 00:36:16.640

Well, they never prevented me from doing anything. They knew I was headstrong, hard-headed even. So... How did you get from... By train. Dad's train.

00:36:18.980 - 00:36:30.820

Did you know any other girls that were going into training? No. Tell me what happened when you got to Houston. I do not even remember how we got to the airport.

00:36:31.020 - 00:36:36.920

I honestly do not. I do not know how I got there. I cannot remember. But I remember where we went.

00:36:36.920 - 00:36:50.460

We lived in a motel and there was a bio that ran behind us. My roommates were Shirley Angles, who now I guess is in Hawaii. I don't know who the other one was. It could have been Marsha Kort.

00:36:50.540 - 00:37:09.940

I don't know. But at any rate, I remember that motel and then a big tractor trailer hauled us over to the airport every day. had seats along the side, padded seats, benches along the side.

00:37:10.820 - 00:37:24.720

That thing boarded up from the back. What were your expectations if you successfully got through that program? I didn't have any. I just was glad, I was thankful to be able to fly, that's all.

00:37:25.300 - 00:37:41.640

When you first started flying at the Houston Municipal Airport, what aircraft did you fly? We had all the puddle jumpers. All the puddle jumpers were there from Cubs. I don't remember any Aeronicas being there.

00:37:43.940 - 00:37:51.780

And the ones that—I don't remember what I flew. I remember one I flew. What was that real light plane? It was almost like a kite.

00:37:54.320 - 00:38:04.640

I'll never forget. I had one experience there. I had an awful time getting it down, and I think I turned the tower operator gray-headed I think I made about five or six shots at the field.

00:38:06.540 - 00:38:19.420

It was so light, I will think of it probably, the lightest plane they made. It was just like a kite. It was windy. I had a crosswind coming in.

00:38:20.330 - 00:38:34.040

I would get the thing down and at the time I would get it down, whoops, up we would go in the air again. I think, as I say, I made about five or six shots at the field. And finally, I had had a little bit of training on power-on landings.

00:38:35.160 - 00:38:43.320

I thought, "Well, I better try it. It's not going to come down this way." So I put the power on and it came down all right. I'm sure the tower operator was very thankful.

00:38:45.100 - 00:38:51.980

Who were your instructors? Oh, boy, I don't remember. Were they civilians? Where?

00:38:52.260 - 00:38:56.760

At Houston? At Houston. Yes, I believe so. I believe they were.

00:38:57.140 - 00:39:09.920

And the commanding officer, who was in charge? I remember Deedee. Deedee was there in charge of us, but I don't know. Mrs. Deeton.

00:39:10.960 - 00:39:28.140

I remember Lieutenant Fleischman. He had PT training. I'll never forget he told us, he said, "If you'll take five minutes every morning and do these loosening up exercises. One of them was rolling your head around. He said, "If

00:39:28.200 - 00:39:45.920

you do that all your life, you'll be very glad you did." Never did it, of course, but then I remember his telling us to. But I don't remember who the commanding officer might have been there. Did Mrs. Deaton explain to you how you could wash out?

00:39:47.880 - 00:39:57.540

I think she did. She explained everything to us. She was our contact. Did some of your classmates wash out?

00:39:58.500 - 00:40:12.180

I'm sure they did. I'll tell you this, Mabel Rawlinson, no that was over at Sweetwater, that's later on. I'm sure they did, but I don't know. I never socialized around a lot with them.

00:40:13.240 - 00:40:24.800

I remember Ellen Hart and, oh, who else do I remember? Dora Doherty. I was with her all the time. I remember her so well.

00:40:24.880 - 00:40:37.360

She was an awfully good pilot. She really was. I thought I was a good pilot, and that's being somewhat conceited about it, but I really worked hard at it, and I thought I did good.

00:40:38.840 - 00:40:54.980

And Dora Doherty, she was one that I thought, "Boy, she's a jump ahead of me. She is just really good. So strong, so sure of herself and firm in her actions, everything about. And I understand she was one that flew what, the B-29?

00:40:56.500 - 00:41:03.400

She deserved it. She certainly was good. Did you also... Oh, God, switch tapes.

00:41:03.480 - 00:41:09.080

We're going to switch. I don't know her. She was a WEF. A WEF?

00:41:09.400 - 00:41:15.800

WEF. Oh. She was at Love Field. We interviewed her for about six hours.

00:41:18.340 - 00:41:31.300

We are in Houston. I was asking about your ground school classes. They were good. We had really good ground school instructors. I wish I had a better memory for that.

00:41:32.860 - 00:41:46.320

Because my husband has a good memory for airplanes. He does not have a good memory for other things. all of his training in planes. And he talks about different airfoils and what have you.

00:41:46.380 - 00:41:54.960

And we got all of that in ground school. I remember that. And the different flaps and all the different things. He knows all of them by name and who made them

00:41:55.060 - 00:42:07.900

and how they worked. Well, he flew P-38, so he used some of that stuff. - What was your schedule like when you were in Houston? - Oh, I don't know when we started.

00:42:07.960 - 00:42:29.580

I think they picked us up around seven. We went to the cafeteria, it was a room about this size, and had everything on it. All the fruit, they had juices, fruits, and toast, and eggs, and cereal, anything you would want, and sweet rolls, and food I thought was good.

00:42:30.560 - 00:42:43.620

And of course we ate our meals there. What kind of uniforms did you have? Like you saw in the picture, it was khakis. That was what we bought or brought with us.

00:42:44.020 - 00:43:00.600

And to fly in, what did you use? Same thing. It seems to me we had fatigues, like they issued to GIs those overall things. It seems to me, because one of the pictures of me, I'm in that, I was with Marcia Courtney.

00:43:00.660 - 00:43:14.340

I was climbing into an airplane and I had on that, and that was at Houston. So I think they did issue those overalls. While you were at Houston, did they start bringing you in some airplanes that were a little nicer?

00:43:15.360 - 00:43:32.020

No, we had, as I recall, they were all these light planes. We did not get into the BT until we got over to Sweetwater. I remember when they moved us over there. Tell us about that move and why did they move you?

00:43:33.140 - 00:43:43.640

I think they had better facilities over there. Probably the municipal airport there in Houston was needed for other things. I was very glad. They had a horrible smell.

00:43:43.720 - 00:43:57.060

There was a glue factory northeast of the airport. It was horrible. But at any rate— Did a class graduate while you were still at Houston, an upper class?

00:43:59.360 - 00:44:10.620

Maybe over at Ellington? I don't think so. I don't know, but I don't think so. How did you move from Houston to Sweetwater?

00:44:11.060 - 00:44:26.300

Now you've asked me about planes there. I remember flying a BT over to Sweetwater. So we must have had, it just escapes me, I can't remember, but we must have had BTs there at Houston.

00:44:28.040 - 00:44:48.140

Had to have. When you moved and you flew the BT over did another WASP trainee, was she with you? Probably I don't remember that either. We flew the planes over there, so we would have our planes with us, you know. I don't remember getting those BT's in Houston, but we must have.

00:44:49.620 - 00:45:11.100

When you arrived at Sweetwater, what was your first impressions of that field? I don't know. They took us to our quarters and we had, oh, Esther Poole, she was my buddy. She was in the next bed to me, but there were, how many in that room?

00:45:11.860 - 00:45:28.100

Eight, twelve, I don't know, quite a few people in that room. And yeah, Esther Poole. Tell me what those barracks looked like. Sure, I can remember, but I think they were just like a motel type of frame.

00:45:29.280 - 00:45:42.500

It was all one floor. Did you keep your same roommates or did you change? No, same roommates. Mabel Rawlinson had the bed behind me and Esther Poole had the bed beside me.

00:45:43.200 - 00:46:10.140

When you got to Sweetwater, what was your schedule like there? Do you recall? Yeah, let's see. They got us up early and we had to make up the bed first, I know. And then we went over to the mess hall and they had powdered eggs floating in water. But you must remember that.

00:46:14.260 - 00:46:25.800

It didn't bother me too much. I don't remember an awful lot about that. But when you got to Sweetwater, then what kind of airplanes? You were still in primary training?

00:46:26.920 - 00:46:43.060

We must have been in BTs because, as I say, I don't recall the details of it, but we must have gotten BTs there at Houston because we flew them over there. That's how we got there. And I think I was alone. I could have had somebody with me. I don't know.

00:46:44.060 - 00:46:57.140

While you were at Sweetwater, do you recall any incidents that happened while you were there? Well, Mabel Rawlinson got killed. They didn't tell that story right in their account of her.

00:46:58.100 - 00:47:15.800

As I say, she had the bed right behind me and she and her instructor went up for training and they were gone and they just didn't come back. Somebody said they found her shoes in the bottom of the plane. They found the plane, but they don't talk much about that sort of thing.

00:47:15.880 - 00:47:20.600

They just kind of ignore it. Kelly: But they never found her body? Davidson: Oh, yeah. Yes, they did.

00:47:21.100 - 00:47:29.740

And they sent her home. Kelly: Was she on just a regular training flight or cross country? Davidson: No, training flight. It was just a regular training flight.

00:47:30.100 - 00:47:42.480

Kelly: How did that make you feel when her bed was empty? Davidson: Didn't think much about it. I don't know where my head was. I must have been a very self-centered person, that's all I can think of.

00:47:44.000 - 00:47:56.480

I was sad because I liked Mabel and we were not buddies. Like Esther Poole and I were real buddies. We were at Wilmington, Delaware together too. Tell us what you remember about Mabel.

00:47:57.880 - 00:48:18.080

I remember what she looked like. She was tall and slender and her hair was maybe the color of mine or a shade darker. And I did not know much about her because I did not socialize with her. So, one day she was there and the next day she was gone.

00:48:18.500 - 00:48:25.200

What happened to her clothes and her personal things? I have no idea. I have no idea. As I say, they did not talk about it.

00:48:25.280 - 00:48:39.940

You never knew what happened. They just took care of things and you did not know anything. Tell me about some of the phases that you went through in flying at Avenger as far as across country or instruments?

00:48:40.680 - 00:48:53.860

What did you make? I didn't have any problems, nothing unusual. The most eventful thing that happened to me, and I've always kind of felt proud of that,

00:48:54.740 - 00:49:09.020

at one point toward the end, before graduation, they brought an inspector out from Washington, D.C., "Check us out, see how we were doing." And my instructor chose Dora Doherty and me to ride with him.

00:49:09.780 - 00:49:20.080

And I guess I passed because I never heard anything bad about it. And of course on the military records that came through, I did not see anything bad there either. So.

00:49:20.900 - 00:49:39.140

What were the airplanes that you flew at Avenger? the BT-13 and AT-6 and the C-78. Do you recall any of your instructors? I wish I could think.

00:49:39.540 - 00:49:54.080

I'll tell you, if you interview Dora Doherty, she had the same instructor I did. I think she did at Houston, too. If she remembers, well, that's who it was. So she might remember me, too, there, because she and I were on a buddy ride, I know, one

00:49:54.180 - 00:50:01.420

time. Our instructor sent us. How long was your entire training, Eleanor? I think I figured it was about nine months.

00:50:01.480 - 00:50:14.440

It went from January. Well, no, it wasn't either because we graduated, I think, in June. I'm pretty sure we did, sure. Then we went home for a while and then I went on to Wilmington, Delaware.

00:50:15.020 - 00:50:28.620

Okay. While you were at Avenger, did any high-ranking officers come to visit? I don't remember that either. It seems to me we did have.

00:50:29.580 - 00:50:42.460

Well Jacqueline Cochran flew in with somebody once. I never paid a whole lot of attention to that sort of thing. As I say, a very self-centered person. I was so wrapped up in my own world I didn't pay much attention to anything.

00:50:43.140 - 00:50:57.160

I wasn't socializing or what have you. I remember Jacqueline Cochran coming in because she had this green airplane with the wings staggered the wrong way. What kind of plane was that?

00:50:58.180 - 00:51:08.160

You don't remember? Oh, yeah, the lower wing usually is behind it. This one was backwards. Were you the first class to graduate from Avenger?

00:51:08.340 - 00:51:12.980

Yes. Yes. Describe that graduation. Oh, that was nice.

00:51:13.100 - 00:51:31.300

Beautiful day, as I recall, with sun shining, moderate temperature, and we were all lined up. There was a whole gang of us, I do not know how many were in my class. We were all lined up and I remember Jacqueline Cochran starting at the bottom of the line,

00:51:31.620 - 00:51:43.820

pinning the wings on each one and offering congratulations. There was a general with her, I am pretty sure. Well who was it anyway? Probably the one in charge of the WASP.

00:51:44.420 - 00:52:00.140

And the underclassmen, did they march for that graduation? Not that I recall. It didn't last very long. I don't remember any particular ceremony involved with it.

00:52:00.440 - 00:52:12.780

Maybe somebody else will. Did any of your family come for graduation? No. When did you have a choice as far as assignments?

00:52:13.140 - 00:52:22.840

No, I wished I'd had. We were assigned, that's where we went. And I was assigned Wilmington, Delaware. Well, I'd never been there, so I figured that's all right, I guess.

00:52:23.840 - 00:52:38.680

Do you recall what you wore for graduation? We were in our khaki uniforms. And tell us about your wings. Well, they were the standard wing, but it had a shield in the middle of it that said

00:52:38.900 - 00:52:47.160

W-3. So I still have mine. How proud were you when Jacqueline Cochran pinned those down? Well, let's put it this way, I've still got them.

00:52:47.780 - 00:53:01.380

I wouldn't part with those except I am going to give them to my granddaughter when I'm gone. After you graduated, were there some other girls who were assigned with you to Wilmington? Esther Poole, yeah.

00:53:01.760 - 00:53:18.440

How did you get, did you have some time off? Yeah, went home to Kansas City. It seems to me it was about ten days or two weeks, and then I took a train. I must have paid for it because I was too old by then to ride on a pass.

00:53:18.520 - 00:53:38.900

I must have paid for it. I went by train anyway to Wilmington, and I would guess that an Army car picked me up. Do you remember to whom you reported? Well, yeah, the ready room, room about this size, and I remember Nancy Love being there,

00:53:39.100 - 00:53:48.480

and I don't know who was in charge there. I really don't remember. What were your quarters like? Where did you live?

00:53:50.180 - 00:54:00.200

I have to think. I don't remember what they were like at all. That's a blank. I haven't thought of that in years and years.

00:54:02.060 - 00:54:16.240

I don't even know. What was your first assignment when you got to Wilmington? Do you recall? Probably to go out and pick up a pipe or a cup and take it down to Oklahoma.

00:54:19.340 - 00:54:27.540

I don't remember what kind of briefings or anything. I'm sure we had them. I just don't remember. But your assignment primarily was as a ferry pilot?

00:54:27.780 - 00:54:48.440

Yes, yes, and we ferried the PT-19s and the Cubs. That was about all. Do you recall any incidents that happened on any of those trips? Why we where where would you ferry them to? Well the Cubs we took to Fort Sill, Oklahoma and the PT-19s we took to Texas.

00:54:48.960 - 00:54:57.480

Okay, and where would you get them from to take them? Well the Cubs we picked up in Maryland. I don't know where we got them. Were they brand new?

00:54:57.480 - 00:55:15.400

Oh yeah, right out of the factory. Maybe, maybe both of them there. I don't recall where we got the other one. Doesn't seem to me not, but seemed to me it was a different place that we got the PT-19s. But, and then we came back by airline. And that was wartime.

00:55:15.860 - 00:55:29.340

Oh yeah. And the airlines were crowded. What kind of priority did you have? Oh, we had top priority. Yeah, we got right on. What would you do when you got to an airbase in delivering those airplanes?

00:55:30.200 - 00:55:47.460

Well, we'd report in to the officer of the day or whoever was, I don't know who was in charge there, but whoever it was in charge. And then would you leave your parachute there? What would happen? Oh boy, don't remember that either. Okay.

00:55:47.800 - 00:56:05.260

Don't know what we did with them. get back to your base and then pick up orders to go someplace else. While you were at Wilmington, what was your social life like? Steele: I enjoyed being at Wilmington part of the time.

00:56:06.080 - 00:56:25.920

Actually I got mononucleosis there, but that's another story. At any rate, I was trying to think. I can't remember who my roommates were or anything. Esther Poole, I have a hunch.

00:56:26.060 - 00:56:37.020

We were together nearly all the time. I know we sat. She married a guy that she met there, too, in ground school. He used to sit next to her.

00:56:37.850 - 00:56:53.880

She moved to Ohio. dead now too, but she came to visit me in Kansas City later on. Then were you at Wilmington the entire time until the WASP were deactivated? No, no, no.

00:56:54.000 - 00:57:16.100

No, the story goes on and on. I was there and there's a peculiar thing. I have one major health problem and that is if I have a fever, a cold, a flu, I am non-compensatory I do the strangest things, and that happened to me on one of the ferrying trips.

00:57:16.200 - 00:57:41.100

What they did, the leader, the flight leader, would assign each of us to take the lead every so often. I was put in the lead, and I led us off course, and I think that determined the rest of my future in the WASP, really. That's when I was sent down to Montgomery, Alabama and on into Greenwood. couldn't wander far away, you know, when you're stuck in one base.

00:57:41.920 - 00:58:00.360

So, at any rate, yeah, but that's when I had a cold and it didn't go away. It seems to me I had a cold for about six weeks and I kept on flying. I didn't feel bad, but I just, I felt numb or not numb. As I say, non-compass menace, wasn't thinking clearly anyway.

00:58:02.840 - 00:58:22.980

At any rate, I kept on flying, and I should not have. It went into mononucleosis. I was in the hospital for three weeks, and I met a doctor there, Branch Craig. His father was a doctor in El Paso, and he was a doctor in El Paso.

00:58:23.700 - 00:58:35.400

He later married a girl from Chicago. He was interested in me, but at that point he wasn't really exciting anyway. Kelly: Were you still at Wilmington then? Steele: Yes, yes.

00:58:35.520 - 00:58:48.140

He was the A-doctor there at the hospital, and he treated me. Well, all they did for treatment really was to feed me like a horse. Boy, the meals they'd serve. Well, at any rate—

00:58:49.140 - 00:59:06.660

Kelly: Well, let me ask you, when you let them off course, you eventually ended up at the right place, right? Well, the flight leader came over and took over and I went back into my position. All these ferrying trips, would it be only WASP?

00:59:06.780 - 00:59:19.080

Who else would fly those airplanes? Nobody. I went on a number of ferrying trips by myself too, as I recall. Or at least if I did, I remember flying alone a lot.

00:59:21.880 - 00:59:41.620

One time I know I had done some laundry and I was flying a Cub down to Fort Sill and I had my laundry hanging up on the bars at the top of the airplane all the way down there to get them dry, which worked fine. So I know that I didn't lead any flights after that.

00:59:42.290 - 00:59:56.920

And I don't know if we always flew in a group or not. But then you got orders to go to Maxwell, right? Yes. And there I flew BT-12s, which was a smaller sized airplane.

00:59:57.920 - 01:00:05.300

Nice airplane though. What was the purpose of that? Was that ferrying? I think that was just a transfer point.

01:00:06.000 - 01:00:18.040

They did not know what to do with me at that point. As a matter of fact, I got disoriented even there. How did that go? I was flying the range.

01:00:18.120 - 01:00:32.880

It must have been kind of late. It got kind of late and I remember I landed and it was a strip or a field. I landed anyway. And I let them know that I was going to stay overnight.

01:00:33.230 - 01:00:46.560

It happened to be a farmhouse and a real nice family. I stayed there overnight and had breakfast there and so forth. And I can't remember their names either, but I remember what they looked like, the mother and her son.

01:00:46.730 - 01:00:58.420

They were real nice. Had you had a forced landing? Nothing wrong with the airplane, just me. I still was not feeling good, I guess.

01:00:58.500 - 01:01:14.300

I do not know, but as I say, that has followed me all my life. When I am not feeling good physically with a cold or a flu or something, I can make the craziest mistakes that would never in the world happen to me otherwise. So you landed in their field?

01:01:15.120 - 01:01:22.080

Either that or there might have been a strip there. I don't know what it was. I had no problem with it at all. But you got to spend the night?

01:01:22.540 - 01:01:29.140

Yeah. What was it? The base sent somebody out. That was it.

01:01:29.220 - 01:01:47.960

They sent somebody out to see if everything was okay. And then I guess, I don't know how that worked out finally. I went back anyway. But after that, then I was put on what you call test pilot, which is a ridiculous name.

01:01:48.420 - 01:02:07.240

But after planes came out of the maintenance right, they had us flying them. Bucky and I were partners there. This was at Maxwell? No, I was transferred to Greenwood from Maxwell, Maxwell Field, over to Greenwood.

01:02:09.640 - 01:02:20.280

Bucky and I were the only women pilots there. It was a training base. And some interesting people there. Mickey Spillane was my husband's roommate there.

01:02:22.860 - 01:02:35.220

And Herb Rayner, he flew C-47s. What was he doing? I don't know if he did a slow roll in one, maybe. He was always flying over to Grenada.

01:02:35.220 - 01:02:51.460

He was funny though, but he got transferred out of there. At Greenwood, where did you live? In Berks and with the nurses because they had nurses there and Bucky and I had a room which I

01:02:51.500 - 01:03:14.720

Fixed up they called it the bridal suite I rented a sewing machine downtown and I fixed it all up with curtains and bedspread of fancy frills and what-have-you and Then I don't know Bill and I started dating well he got trans Well, he was an instructor there and I don't really know how I met him exactly.

01:03:15.600 - 01:03:25.080

I don't know where. It might have been at a Christmas party or something. What attracted you to Bill? The fact that he didn't criticize me.

01:03:25.120 - 01:03:39.020

I spent my life with my sister being under the gun all the time. She criticized absolutely everything I did and nothing was right. She had a better way of doing it. And I was so tired of being hounded that way.

01:03:39.320 - 01:03:48.720

And all my dates did that. That either my skirt was too long or too short. My makeup was too heavy or too light. There was always something not right.

01:03:49.240 - 01:03:57.620

And Bill was the only one that never had a comment like that. We would just talk about casual things, you know. That's what it was. Of course, that changed.

01:03:58.340 - 01:04:10.100

I've spent 60 years with that man being criticized for everything I did and did not do. So I guess that's life. Was he an instructor in flying or in ground school? Yeah, no, in flying.

01:04:10.220 - 01:04:20.020

In flying. Do you recall when you were at Greenwood a tornado coming through Greenwood? Hmm, vaguely. I remember a snowstorm.

01:04:21.960 - 01:04:30.660

I don't remember a tornado. I don't think so. Then did you stay at Greenwood until the wasps were deactivated? No.

01:04:32.040 - 01:04:43.200

And as I say, I had a good record. Now, that sounds conceited, but it's the one-- I'm not happy about my leading the flight astray when we were ferrying airplanes.

01:04:43.880 - 01:05:01.040

And I'm not happy about the landing I made unnecessarily, although it was kind of fun. But even so, I was a good pilot. As I say, this inspector that came out from Washington, DC,

01:05:01.560 - 01:05:17.020

I know he gave me a good rating, because I never heard anything bad about it, and I kind of got the impression that he did. I was sent to instructor school, and I don't think they would have done that if I couldn't be trusted.

01:05:18.590 - 01:05:37.860

I was sent to Randolph Field, and that was good. I appreciated that and enjoyed it a lot, too. I got formation flying, acrobatics, instrument training, and an instrument rating too. And then what did you do with all that information?

01:05:38.060 - 01:05:44.120

Did you teach? I resigned. I came back to Greenwood. I was supposed to be an instructor.

01:05:47.580 - 01:05:54.180

I had leave coming. That was it. I had leave coming. It accumulated to almost a month of leave.

01:05:56.680 - 01:06:14.160

Bill and I had been dating and he had never gotten past saying he loved me. But nonetheless, he was transferred out to Salinas, California. My sister lived in the Los Angeles area, Torrance, wherever she lived. I guess she lived in Torrance.

01:06:14.240 - 01:06:31.680

At any rate, I wasn't just winging it out to California for nothing. I knew I was going to go see my sister, which I did. She kind of got me in hot water. She talked me into staying with her for a while, and that made Bill mad.

01:06:32.200 - 01:06:44.760

But at any rate, he was out in Salinas. But the thing was, I had no way of going. We had no transportation during the war. Aerial hitchhiking was the only way to go.

01:06:46.760 - 01:07:05.420

They flew me down to Arkansas to, I can't think of the name of that field, and I've been in and out of it a lot. But it was an Arkansas field, and then from there I caught a plane over to Randolph Field again of all places, right back where it started, two days before.

01:07:06.300 - 01:07:20.480

And I asked about a plane going to California. The only one that was there was General Connell, him and his B-25. And I guess it was okay with him if I rode along. So I got in there.

01:07:20.540 - 01:07:31.740

I had bought one of these paperback books. I was prepared to sit down and read my book all the way out there. And I hadn't any more than gotten settled until a co-pilot came back and said General Connell wanted to see me.

01:07:32.260 - 01:07:49.300

And the first thing he did was say, "Where are we?" And fortunately in my radio training and all, we had just completed the training on Vectoring Inn on three stations. So I came up with it, and then he said, "You take over."

01:07:49.300 - 01:08:00.840

So he wanted to check that out. And that was okay, too. As I say, I was amazed how easy that airplane flew. The only correction he had, he said, "Bring your left wing up a little."

01:08:00.840 - 01:08:20.480

And that was all he corrected me on that. So we went out to Santa Rosa, and it turned out—he asked me—well, he asked me, "What He asked me, "Why are you going out there?" I said, "To see my fiancé."

01:08:21.000 - 01:08:26.280

Who was it? "Well, where is he? Bill Pyle and where is he stationed?" "Well, he's in Santa Rosa."

01:08:26.280 - 01:08:44.380

He said, "Oh, that's one of my commands." So he told the radio operator, "Get a hold of so-and-so at Santa Rosa. Have Bill Pyle meet the plane." It turned out the radio operator was a fellow that Bill had been in training with down in

01:08:44.260 - 01:08:57.440

Florida who washed out. They were friends. So at any rate, Bill met the plane and nobody told him why. He thought he was being called on the carpet.

01:08:57.440 - 01:09:16.620

He had been flying under bridges and stuff out there. He thought he was being called on the carpet, but nonetheless, he saw General Connell. General Connell just marched right past him and headed toward the operations. Then he saw me and I guess then he knew what it was all about.

01:09:16.760 - 01:09:31.160

Well, in the meantime, General Connell had told the radio operator that he says, "Contact the St. Francis Hotel. I'm giving a cocktail party tonight. You and Bill come."

01:09:31.160 - 01:09:42.660

So that was okay. Then he said, "I'll get your rooms there." So he had the radio operator arrange rooms for each of us, because we weren't married then.

01:09:44.600 - 01:09:52.700

He did that. We went to that cocktail party. We didn't stay too long, as I recall. We didn't know anybody there.

01:09:53.280 - 01:10:02.920

It was a pretty big party. It was in a room about this size and it was full of people. We didn't stay too long. We went on and had dinner and then went to the hotel.

01:10:03.060 - 01:10:20.820

The next day, General Connell said, "He arranged for us to get married. We didn't plan to get married. He arranged it. He had talked to the man there in charge of the base and the chaplain had everything all

01:10:20.960 - 01:10:28.460

set up. We had two nuns for witnesses. Bill at that time was Catholic. He isn't now, but he was then.

01:10:31.060 - 01:10:39.520

A priest married us and we had two nuns for witnesses. Had Bill asked you to marry him? No. No General Connell arranged it all.

01:10:42.160 - 01:10:49.820

That's pretty strict orders. Yeah. So, anyway, that's about it. And then, how did that go?

01:10:50.400 - 01:10:59.100

I went back to Greenwood. Let's see. What was the date that you married? It was May 20th, 1944.

01:11:01.580 - 01:11:12.940

And we had, I've got pictures of that too. Santa Rosa was lovely. It was a beautiful day and everything was nice. I've got to dig those pictures out.

01:11:13.020 - 01:11:24.500

At any rate. - And by that time you had a different uniform. - Yes, we were in the blue uniforms then. Yes, well also you'll notice in the wedding picture,

01:11:25.040 - 01:11:34.580

that's my blue uniform. - So you were both in uniform. - Yeah, that's true. - Yeah, who gave the bride away?

01:11:35.960 - 01:11:42.080

- Probably one of the nuns, who knows? Maybe another priest. That was whoever was there. - Good.

01:11:42.300 - 01:11:52.440

And then you left and went back to Greenwood? - To Greenwood and resigned. And then I went back. How did I go back?

01:11:53.880 - 01:12:06.180

I don't know, but I went back to... Bill hadn't gone up to, oh yeah, that was, how did that go? Somewhere along the line,

01:12:06.460 - 01:12:25.020

I've got to read my own story again. Somewhere up the line, General Connell loaned us his B-25 to go up to Washington. Bill was transferred to a freighter in Washington for pursuit training. Our P-39s were up there.

01:12:27.580 - 01:12:33.700

So we went up there. Had you met Bill's family before you married him? No. Had he met yours?

01:12:34.000 - 01:12:40.700

No. No, in the war, no. Nobody knew anybody. You just wing it.

01:12:40.700 - 01:12:54.960

And when your mom and dad found out about that, how did they feel? Well, dad said, "You made your bed and I just want to see you lie in it." And mother was a little more charitable. But then you went with Bill up to Washington?

01:12:56.220 - 01:13:14.380

After I resigned, yes. And then, I don't know how I got back to Hamilton Field. Carl and I went to the Officer's Club, some kind of a party there. Might have been his—I don't know if that was before or after.

01:13:14.740 - 01:13:24.460

But then, yes, I went on up to Washington. I went up in a car. Somebody was going up there in a car driving, and there was another passenger. I think she had a baby.

01:13:26.220 - 01:13:38.740

I went along, too. I think I could have ruined his car. Somebody told me I could have. It was—I thought he had a vapor lock in it, because we had that in the airplanes.

01:13:39.720 - 01:13:55.520

When you did, you opened the throttle all the way. At any rate, he was having trouble with his car. I think I turned the ignition off, and it popped out the exhaust pipe, but it cured it.

01:13:55.660 - 01:14:17.480

Whatever it was, it cured it, and we went on up there. Then I took a bus from wherever he dropped me off and went over to the base. I don't remember Bill meeting me or any of that either. I really have no idea how that worked out.

01:14:19.340 - 01:14:31.460

Was he permanently stationed there at that time or just on duty? No, that was training. That was training for him. We met some people that became very, very close friends, Walt and Marge Meyer there.

01:14:31.980 - 01:14:53.120

I remember they had an apricot tree in their yard and uh. And then when Bill finished that pursuit training. All right then oh that's when we were at the party in Santa Rosa. Yes um he went back to Hamilton Field to be shipped out to the uh South Pacific and uh was there.

01:14:53.920 - 01:15:21.520

We we bought a car up there in Washington. It was a Chevrolet a 41 Chevrolet and drove it down And of course everything was on gas stamps. Didn't have enough gas really. But we drove it down there and we were in Van Nuys. That's where he went. And he was in Van Nuys for quite a while. We lived in Barney Oldfield's Caddy House and that was made into a living quarters.

01:15:21.810 - 01:15:49.500

And Walton Marginville and I lived there. So yeah. And then how long before he got orders to ship out? Oh, it wasn't too long, a couple of months, I guess. And then I drove, I was pregnant then, and I drove the car back to Kansas City, and he went overseas. I kept all the letters that he wrote to me from overseas, and he's really enjoyed reading those things.

01:15:49.560 - 01:16:09.860

It's an account of everything that he did and names that he might have forgotten, like I've forgotten so many names. See, that was all included in there. He was never one to sit still and play cards or that sort of thing. He didn't like the food, for one thing, at the base.

01:16:10.440 - 01:16:24.060

He went out looking, and he scoured up fish and chickens from the natives, cooked them in a helmet. He and some other guys. All that's contained in those letters that he wrote back.

01:16:24.260 - 01:16:33.580

Where was he stationed then? Steele: Oh, boy. Luzon. I should not remember.

01:16:33.580 - 01:16:47.860

He is always talking about it. He is reliving World War II right now, so I should know all those names, but I cannot remember. He and T.P. Smith.

01:16:49.380 - 01:17:02.240

You know something interesting, too. One of his tentmates married a girl from Merrill. She was a twin. His tentmate met her in the state of Washington during the war.

01:17:03.820 - 01:17:18.980

They came back here for a reunion about four years ago for a family reunion. Bill got to visit with him again. He's a nice guy. Then he still corresponds with T.P.

01:17:18.980 - 01:17:51.440

Smith and he used to work for, well here we go again, architect from Wisconsin, a renowned architect but, Frank Lloyd Wright, yeah that's probably who it was, yeah that's who it was And they adopted P.P. Smith's form of printing, lettering, that they used. Anyway, he was one of Bill's tentmates.

01:17:52.080 - 01:18:00.920

And he calls every so often, even now. That's great. When you came, when you drove to Kansas City, where did you live then? With your folks?

01:18:01.440 - 01:18:15.500

Yes. My sister came back with me. I went down to, and I don't know how I got there either, but nonetheless, she was in the Los Angeles area and she and her baby drove back with me.

01:18:15.710 - 01:18:25.240

Okay, and then how long before you delivered that baby? In June of '45. Okay. Yeah.

01:18:26.640 - 01:18:32.820

And it was what? A girl? Yeah, yeah, my daughter. She's 56 today.

01:18:33.600 - 01:18:53.780

Not today, but now. Yeah, she's at work now. I was going to bring her. She was laid off, an optional layoff. She asked for it. And she was off for three weeks. Well, actually they were going to give her an extra week, and then they called her back.

01:18:55.040 - 01:19:11.820

But my other daughter was born in New York State after we went to New Jersey. How long did Bill stay overseas before he came back? He came home in '45, it was December of '45. So he was...

01:19:11.820 - 01:19:23.420

And where did he, did you meet him somewhere or did he come... Yeah, I went over to St. Louis to meet him. He mustered out there in St. Louis. And did he then get out of the Air Force?

01:19:23.500 - 01:19:42.040

Yes, yes. And do you recall the meeting when he saw his little baby? I don't know. I'll have to tell you, this isn't a very nice thing to say, but Bill is not a family man. His family is not family oriented.

01:19:43.100 - 01:20:02.780

And he was never raised in that atmosphere. And so, no, I don't remember. I'm sure he didn't ooh and aah and goo-goo over her. But she was a beautiful baby. I'll tell you, I've got her baby pictures and she just was a beautiful baby. And she had hair, real pale blonde hair.

01:20:03.260 - 01:20:17.340

And in the hospital, the nurse had her hair up in a baby curl with a pink ribbon on it. And that was right after she was born. And then how old was she when you moved to New York? Oh, she was about nine months old.

01:20:18.000 - 01:20:34.440

Yeah. And when you moved to New York, where did you live and what did Bill do? Bill went into business. He was in the auto body business. We later moved to Woodcliffe Lake, which was seven miles northeast of Ridgewood.

01:20:34.520 - 01:20:43.760

Ridgewood is where Bill was born and raised. He was trained there, more or less. He did not go to college there. He went to Ridgewood High School.

01:20:46.100 - 01:21:04.260

He learned the business of auto body repair there. Bob Fuell taught him, helped him get started. He did not know whether he wanted to go into photography or auto body repair. He had bought a Japanese camera.

01:21:04.360 - 01:21:16.780

Boy, that thing was like a cannon. He took an awful lot of pictures over there. Well, as T.P. Smith said, out at March Field they were making a museum. He sent all his pictures out to T.P. Smith.

01:21:18.520 - 01:21:35.700

I guess that is where they are now. And we later built a house there in New Jersey in Woodcliffe Lake, beautiful piece of ground, two and a half acres. It was on a hill, it was a sixty-foot level.

01:21:36.460 - 01:21:51.780

What it was, it was a gentleman's estate that had been divided into plots, one acre and two acre plots. And ours was two and a half acres, quite deep, four hundred and thirty-five feet deep, and I think two twenty-five across.

01:21:52.820 - 01:22:10.520

But it was level for sixty feet and then it went down a slope and then there was a big flat land that was farmed, I guess, at one time. That was a kid's playground. And then beyond that were sixteen native white pine trees and we put a fireplace down there.

01:22:10.600 - 01:22:26.780

And then there was a brook that was about twelve or fifteen feet wide that ran, divided the properties. It was a beautiful piece of ground. How far are your daughters their ages between the two daughters?

01:22:26.920 - 01:22:37.440

About two years I guess. Barbara was born in '46. Judy was born in, well, more than that, '48. Barbara must have been born in '48.

01:22:38.160 - 01:22:44.280

Okay. We're going to change that. All righty. We're going to change that.

01:22:44.300 - 01:22:55.340

Moving right along. She still looks great. And he's dedicated now. And we both, we depend on him.

01:22:55.520 - 01:23:09.480

Even if my cat's lost, I tell him, ask God to protect him. And here he comes walking in later on, you know. It just happens all the time. >> Oh, listen, this whole trip for us has been one miracle after another.

01:23:09.480 - 01:23:13.240

>> I'll bet it has. >> We can share miracles at lunch if you want to. >> Yeah, we will. We'll share some.

01:23:13.240 - 01:23:19.060

>> Oh, that sounds good. Yes, I would love-- >> Do you want to leave your glasses on? Is that good there? >> Oh, no, no, I don't-- >> Not a problem if she wants to.

01:23:19.220 - 01:23:30.180

- Well, they'll reflect the light is the only thing. - Okay. As your children were growing up, your two daughters, how did you participate in what they were doing

01:23:30.250 - 01:23:40.200

in school or athletics or whatever? - I did as much as I could. We were something of a fractured family, even though we were together,

01:23:40.360 - 01:23:53.000

but it was the reason I wanted to get out of the East. The children go one way, father goes the other way, and I went one way. And I wanted to move to an area that was more family-oriented.

01:23:53.080 - 01:24:07.100

As I say, he was not family-oriented. And his mother and father were not compatible to begin with. And they were not educated people. They came over here in 1918 or '19,

01:24:07.840 - 01:24:17.680

had five children, lived in a very wealthy town. Ridgewood, New Jersey is one of the wealthiest towns in the United States. And had to keep up.

01:24:17.740 - 01:24:31.320

And then being Catholic, there's a lot of discrimination in the Catholic school. Some of the stories he tells are just awful. But at any rate, it may be just that location, cuz I've met them out here and I don't find that to be true.

01:24:32.900 - 01:24:48.720

But at any rate, I participated in their school activities. And they never were into sports a whole lot. Out here, my daughter was into horses. Nobody ever was interested in flying.

01:24:49.280 - 01:24:58.840

Nobody was interested in archery. My kids all went their separate ways. My youngest daughter likes gardening and she likes writing. She works for a newspaper.

01:24:58.940 - 01:25:13.700

She's a reporter on the little newspaper here in town. And the oldest girl was into horses and she had a couple of horses when she was a teenager. But I never rode. She did.

01:25:14.280 - 01:25:35.800

And of course we're out in the open fields, we're seven miles north of town here. We don't live on a farm, but there are farm fields around us, places where she could ride. And at any rate, I was active and I was interested in everything they did, because my mother was.

01:25:36.180 - 01:25:51.600

Mother was quite a mother. I think of her now and I wasn't near the mother she was, but I learned a lot. And so I was intensely interested in what the children did and their progress, but Bill would never go along with it.

01:25:52.200 - 01:26:04.100

He was always pulling the opposite direction. So we didn't do a whole lot that should have been done. As those children were growing up, did they have the advantage of being able to visit their grandparents?

01:26:04.240 - 01:26:21.360

Well, my grandmother, my mother, came out and lived with us for a while. And they knew their grandmother in New Jersey because she lived in Ridgewood and we were so close by, they knew her then. That side of the family, yes.

01:26:22.680 - 01:26:32.320

And then when did you decide to move to Merrill? 1957. Did you have family in Merrill? No.

01:26:33.240 - 01:26:46.240

We were going, we planned to go to Minneapolis. No, planned to go to Denver, where my mother and dad were. When dad retired from the railroad in Kansas City, they went to Denver, where my cousin

01:26:46.460 - 01:26:56.620

and mother's sister lived. And we were going out there, and we went out there and went along a two-lane highway, and it was sagebrush and no electric,

01:26:56.620 - 01:27:07.880

and they wanted $150 a front foot. So we said, "No, we don't think we wanna go here." So we came back by Minneapolis to see our friends Walt and Marge, who we had met in the freighter Washington.

01:27:08.900 - 01:27:27.120

And they, Walt was the vice president of Fuller Glue Company there. And we came back and we saw them. They were out of town at the moment, but they came back the next day. And we visited with them, and he was the one who said, "You might like Wisconsin."

01:27:27.120 - 01:27:47.300

And he mentioned Black River Falls, Wisconsin Rapids, Wausau, and Merrill. And as most men, as the crow flies, that's how you go home. So we came from Minneapolis across through Black River Falls, and it was not daylight, that was early.

01:27:48.020 - 01:28:03.320

And we came through Wausau, and I said, "This looks good to me." And Bill said, "No, it's still too big." So we came on up to Merrill and he says, "This looks okay to me." And Merrill was much prettier then than it is now because they had big trees growing

01:28:03.360 - 01:28:15.320

on both sides of the street. And the thing that impressed us was it was so clean. All the streets were clean. And we had come from New York State where there was just garbage everywhere.

01:28:15.480 - 01:28:25.980

You go to any of the way sides or anything at all and there's just trash and garbage all over the place. So we were impressed with how clean it was. How old were the girls?

01:28:27.560 - 01:28:36.680

Seven and I guess Barbara was about six or five. No, eight and six I guess. They were young. Young children.

01:28:37.060 - 01:28:51.180

Right. And so then what did, once you got here, then what did Bill do? We started the archery business here, staghorn archery. What got you interested in archery?

01:28:51.300 - 01:29:04.200

We were out in New Jersey. Well, that goes back into Bill's history. In Belgium, archery is a national sport like baseball is here. Bill's grandfather made bows and wooden shoes over in Belgium.

01:29:05.040 - 01:29:19.780

They shoot at a target that's up on a big pole, and the arrows are all painted different so they can identify their own arrows. I don't know how the game is played, but the little boys or somebody retrieves the arrows and so forth.

01:29:20.060 - 01:29:42.620

But at any rate, he knew how to make bows from his grandfather and his father. So he made bows out there. They were so much better than anything on the market, everybody wanted one. So we came out here and we were going to, even though it was not in a city or anything,

01:29:42.710 - 01:29:58.240

I said, "Why don't you do it by mail?" Which we did. And they finally got a good reputation, a good name. The Canadian, well she was from Minneapolis, or maybe not, but at any rate, a Canadian

01:29:58.380 - 01:30:18.320

champion, a German champion, and South African champions. A lot of the naval bases went in for archery in a big way. There was a, Rota was a naval base down in Spain, and they bought a lot of bows. Did those champions, were they using your bows?

01:30:18.560 - 01:30:31.640

Yeah, yeah. And so at any rate, then we made hunting bows and Bill and I got into hunting. We went deer hunting and he did a lot of fishing. We enjoyed living out here.

01:30:32.740 - 01:30:47.760

And the girls, what kind of schools did they grow up? They didn't go to college, either one of them. They regret that. They kind of blame me for that. I don't know. I've kind of had my hands full all my life. Bill has been a real handful, believe me.

01:30:48.380 - 01:31:10.540

And everything I wanted to do, he pulled the opposite way. That was the problem. And when you have a situation like that, you don't make much forward progress. Right. Tell me about your grandchildren. Oh, well, Barbara has five. And Becky's in college now, in her third year of college.

01:31:10.760 - 01:31:34.640

She is at University of Wisconsin, Marathon Campus in Wausau. And then she plans to finish up in Madison at the main campus. Peter is married. Paul is in California.

01:31:34.640 - 01:31:47.800

He is a computer whiz. So he's in California and I don't know what he's doing now with the market going down and so many of them being sold I haven't heard. I've got to call her and ask her what she hears from him.

01:31:51.000 - 01:32:10.800

And Peter, he lives in Wausau, he's married. He married a girl, I met her on the internet, email. She is from Massachusetts and she had a music scholarship. She's a pianist, an excellent pianist.

01:32:10.800 - 01:32:26.460

She teaches music. She was from Massachusetts. And then Becky is finishing up, maybe she's finishing her second year at Marathon Campus, and then she goes down to either Stevens Point or Madison to finish up.

01:32:27.840 - 01:32:48.040

And I've forgotten what she's going to get into, what her major is. And then Michael, he graduates next year from high school and he wants to be a teacher, a history teacher. Do you get to have family reunions now, say the holidays?

01:32:50.320 - 01:33:03.540

Not all too much. They are so scattered. My oldest daughter has two children. Robert is the one in Milwaukee that has the email and the computer and put all the pictures

01:33:03.760 - 01:33:16.960

online. He doesn't get up this way all too often. He never finished his college. He's at his third year of electrical engineering.

01:33:18.240 - 01:33:33.780

He can't get through it because he has a job that's paying him too good to quit and interrupt it and so forth. So he probably never will finish up his college. And Angela, she is the world traveler.

01:33:35.740 - 01:33:58.440

She married a boy who was in the service, and he died of leukemia. He was exposed to something, and he died of leukemia. And he must have left her considerable money, because she is forever traveling somewhere. She's going over to, well, she went to Russia, she went to Spain, she went on a bike ride

01:33:58.500 - 01:34:21.000

to Cuba, she and her dad went there. Well, see, my daughter married the boy across the street, which makes the family close at hand and Clara, she's up here now, she lives right across the street from us, that's Clara's mother-in-law or rather Angela's mother-in-law formerly and she goes down to Florida in the

01:34:21.060 - 01:34:47.360

summer in the winter and she's back up here now but I haven't seen her much she's 90 years old and she's quite spry for her years you wouldn't believe it she's better off with her walking than I am she walks down the road anyway her son Robert lives up the road from us and old Peggy lives in Green Bay although I think she's going to build a house up by

01:34:47.380 - 01:34:55.200

Robert now. So what I'm saying is that family is all around us. Family reunion really isn't. It's every day.

01:34:55.820 - 01:35:05.580

So we don't make a big to do over reunions. Plus the fact that Bill isn't into anything like that. Now my family was. My family was very very limited.

01:35:06.240 - 01:35:20.700

I say mother's sister married dad's brother and the children there were two of us and three of them. So that and my grandmother and mother's brother and what have you. That was about the extent of our family but we were extremely close always.

01:35:22.460 - 01:35:34.840

And tell me, Eleanor, how do you spend your time now since your children are all gone from home? Well, I keep trying to get a few minutes to do what I want to do. Everything else is what everybody else wants me to do.

01:35:35.840 - 01:35:56.920

About the time I draw a deep breath, my daughter Judy calls and says, "Mom, when you coming to town again?" "Well, maybe Tuesday." "Well, how about stopping by or let's have lunch or something?" So I'm always on the run. It's what it amounts to. Plus, my energy is down now. Ever since I got rheumatitis, my energy has been cut down quite a lot.

01:35:57.500 - 01:36:18.260

Tell me, Eleanor, what makes you happy? Just what I'm doing. I enjoy being home. I enjoy cooking. I love gardening. I love, oh my, I love my pets. I lost my little dog. I had a Shih Tzu. Had to put her to sleep a couple of years ago. She developed a liver problem. She was only seven years old. Now I have just an alley cat,

01:36:18.360 - 01:36:38.780

but since Panda's been gone, Panda was a black and white marked dog, looked just like a panda bear. So we named her Panda. Buffy my cat, he's just an alley cat. But since Panda's been gone, he thinks he's a dog. And he's funny. He answers me if I come in the room. He'll speak to me and just like Panda used to do.

01:36:39.620 - 01:36:57.100

So. What is your personal opinion of Jacqueline Cochran and the WASP program? Well, I think the WASP program, well naturally it was a lifeline for me. So I think it was a terrific program. And Jacqueline Cochran, I never knew personally, but I certainly admired her.

01:36:57.580 - 01:37:09.860

And I certainly admired what she did for women and women in the service. I never would have had a chance without her. There's no getting around that. And I think she was one terrific woman.

01:37:10.280 - 01:37:28.360

And also a pilot, good pilot. She did not say, oh, what's that other woman that got drowned overseas in 1932 or so? Earhart. Yeah, I never thought she was a really good pilot. She didn't strike me as being a good pilot

01:37:28.840 - 01:37:46.900

I think she was out for the publicity But no Jacqueline Cochran to me was an excellent pilot. I watched her fly I watched her land and very precise in her in her flying Tell me what you know about Nancy Hartman's love

01:37:49.120 - 01:38:05.920

Well, I don't really know anything about her except the Association I had there at in the ready room in Wilmington, Delaware, and you didn't she mainly Associated with the wife. She was extremely friendly But we had nothing to talk about really

01:38:07.500 - 01:38:29.540

Eleanor during your life. You've done so many things. What is the one thing that you are most proud of flying? Absolutely that I said, "You know, if I died tomorrow, put on my gravestone, I've had one really good time on this old earth."

01:38:29.540 - 01:38:37.660

And I have. I have. All the time. During your time on earth, there have been good times and bad times, and there have been

01:38:37.860 - 01:38:46.720

happy times and there have been sad times. What has gotten you through those sad times? I don't think about the past. I wash the past away.

01:38:47.260 - 01:38:56.840

That does not concern me. I am concerned with today. I don't worry too much about tomorrow. I worry about today and I keep an eye on tomorrow to know where I'm going.

01:38:57.400 - 01:39:08.060

I like being prepared. Years ago I learned about the Boy Scout adage, "Be prepared," and that really hit me. I thought, "That's a good idea." So I like being prepared no matter what I'm doing.

01:39:08.720 - 01:39:17.560

That's why I was a little distressed over this situation where I couldn't locate what I wanted. Didn't have time to locate it, really. And I'm not through yet.

01:39:18.000 - 01:39:34.160

night Bill's got about eight guys coming to cut up ten cords of wood and I've got to buzz downtown in the morning and buy all kinds of stuff to make barbecue and get everything ready for him so there's no rest there either. But there are going to be sad times ahead.

01:39:35.200 - 01:39:40.820

What will get you through those sad times? God. See most people don't believe in God. I do.

01:39:41.280 - 01:39:52.540

I don't believe in what people say. If it's in the Bible that says it, that I believe. I don't believe what anybody says. always a wait-and-see attitude that I have toward what people tell me. You may

01:39:52.620 - 01:40:11.440

be right. I would never argue a point unless I could prove it, but I don't worry about what people say. And if people don't like me, well that's okay because you can't expect to like everybody on earth. But I don't worry about a whole lot of things. And I'm the past. I think people's biggest

01:40:11.860 - 01:40:23.440

unhappiness comes from dwelling on the past, and Bill is good at that too. My One of my daughters is good at that. I keep telling her, "Stay away from the past. You can't change it.

01:40:23.680 - 01:40:34.460

That's it." So I don't ever think about that. What do you feel the legacy of the WASP will be? I think courageous women.

01:40:34.810 - 01:40:50.400

I really do. That was when women branched out and really showed their mettle. You know, they weren't just doormats to be stuck in a house and to be a servant. Isn't the way it goes well again that comes from the way

01:40:50.400 - 01:41:09.500

I was raised with the two girls in the family we were always treated as Individuals as people as worthwhile we were never treated as anything else, and if we talked people listened and If I talk too much it got corrected Nonetheless we were never put down and

01:41:10.380 - 01:41:28.280

My sister was the only one that did that to me, and I finally had to come to reason with that situation "Well, you know, I hate it, but if there's one thing I can learn from everything she says, I can live with it." And that's what brought me through. But, at any rate.

01:41:28.680 - 01:41:52.080

What do you feel your legacy will be, or what do you want people to remember about you? Well, probably hard-headedness. I don't quit. I'm not a quitter. When I start something, I stay with it to the end. In looking ahead, children in future generations will be able to watch you and listen to what

01:41:52.160 - 01:42:16.780

you say. What would you like to say to them that might encourage them to try to make something out of their lives? That is a hard one because to me it so much depends on society in that time. Today's society, I would hate to be raising children today because society is so different.

01:42:17.090 - 01:42:30.780

I don't know how I would approach it. I'm hard-headed and I live in the past generation as far as my morals and values go. I'd have a terrible time if I were single. So I don't know.

01:42:30.860 - 01:42:51.480

I think the person just has to keep their head and use common sense and reason, balance. I hate being extremist. I don't like extremism at all. to me is the answer, but I don't go for their loose morals. I'm not a liberal. I'm not a liberal.

01:42:56.300 - 01:43:23.020

Or if you want to say something to your grandchildren. They're doing all right without me, I'll tell you. So I don't know, just keep going, have courage and have faith. And of those three things, courage and faith and keep going, which is the most important? Oh, I would say the faith is the most important thing.

01:43:23.640 - 01:43:37.280

God is the most important thing in life. Life revolves around God. It's a shame people can't understand that, can't believe it. They understand it. As I heard one man say on radio, people know right from wrong, they just won't do it.

01:43:37.520 - 01:43:49.500

And that's exactly where it's at. They know what's right and what's true, but they won't do it. And it's not a popular thing to do, for one thing. They don't like people not agreeing with them.

01:43:51.120 - 01:44:02.680

Is there anything that I've left out that you would like to say, any incident or anything you want to talk about? This is your story. Well, I can't really think of anything.

01:44:03.720 - 01:44:17.140

I have the utmost respect for my mother and dad. I know that. I really do. I did not give them the credit they deserved when they were alive, and that really bothers

01:44:17.240 - 01:44:34.100

me a lot. At any rate, I have no family now, you know, of my own, my own personal family. And my cousins are the closest thing that I have. I'm too old now to go visit them.

01:44:35.240 - 01:44:49.060

I don't want to travel anymore. Can I ask you about your train trip to Avenger? Do you remember anything about that trip? I didn't make a train trip to Avenger.

01:44:50.780 - 01:45:03.940

I flew over there from Houston. Train trip to Houston? I don't even know how I got there, whether I bought a ticket or whether I rode on Dad's pass. I was 18, maybe I could have gone on Dad's pass.

01:45:06.900 - 01:45:20.640

And I don't know how I got from the train station either. How would I have gotten there? I have no idea. -I just wondered if your dad was on the train or if there was anybody you knew on the train. -Oh no, I traveled alone.

01:45:21.020 - 01:45:33.980

-Okay. Do you remember taking any kind of oath To work for you know to go to work to be a WASP trainee And the other thing I was going to ask you is what's your favorite airplane

01:45:36.960 - 01:46:05.300

Hmm I always wanted to fly an a-20 never did so I can't say that's my favorite airplane I don't know. I think I'd like to fly a B-25 too, but I never flew one of those except just that few minutes. I don't know what I would say. AT-6 was always good. I think it's more fun to fly a BT.

01:46:06.700 - 01:46:30.460

Not with the right engine, with a Pratt & Whitney. They're too noisy otherwise. Can you tell me, because I'm not a pilot, can you tell me what it's like to fly outfield? Scared me to death the first time I got on a plane. As much as I wanted to fly, I was absolutely terrified. Came down on the ground shaking, but I figured I couldn't get over that.

01:46:31.300 - 01:46:38.280

And you did it again? Oh yeah. Why? I wanted to fly bad enough. If you want to do something bad enough, you know, you can overcome the odds.

01:46:38.280 - 01:46:49.280

I wanted to fly bad enough that I was going to overcome it. So I finally got used to that feeling. It is a different feeling. Now, there's another feeling that I can't get used to,

01:46:49.360 - 01:46:55.780

and that's like riding in a boat, a rowboat, and that thing bouncing around. That scares me. That just scares me to death.

01:46:56.860 - 01:47:04.760

And you get a little of that, you know, on a plane, but that didn't bother me. That didn't bother me. >> Okay. Do you have a favorite word?

01:47:05.200 - 01:47:36.480

>> No. favorite word? Probably I do but I can't think of it now. Okay. You've been great. This has just been a blessing. I put it that way. Well I'm a big talker. As I say I'm a salesman by nature. For your musical I don't have any talents really except my mouth. You're

01:47:36.480 - 01:47:46.840

We really appreciate this and kids 100 years from now are going to really appreciate it. Well that's good. I think it's a good thing to have. There's so many interesting stories.

01:47:47.700 - 01:48:03.240

Have you had any word from Rean Nielsen? She was from North Dakota. Who else can I think of that I've wondered about? Makes you want to.

01:48:03.260 - 01:48:03.700

Well I haven't.