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Tell me your full name. Dorothy Dodd-Evstein. And where and when were you born? March 1, 1918, in Lansing, Michigan.

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Good. Who were your parents, Dorothy? Eugene Dodd and Mabel Watkins. What did your dad do? He was a purchasing agent for the city of Waterloo and Westview Lake.

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What are your first remembrances as a young child? Well let me ask you, did you have brothers and sisters? Litz: Yeah, but I was the last born by fourteen years, so I always suspected I was an accident. Levy-Royce: You were probably spoiled.

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Litz: One would, right. Levy-Royce: Were you spoiled? Litz: No, because they were all gone. I was the youngest child and an only child.

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Levy-Royce: Right. Where did you go to start school? Litz: In Lansing, Michigan. Levy-Royce: Did you live near the school or did you live out in the country?

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Litz: Actually, we lived right across the street from the school. Do you remember any of your early teachers? No. No, okay.

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When you were a young child, Dorothy, what was it like at your house? Did you celebrate? Yeah, it was gorgeous. We had this house that had a sun porch that had been glassed in, so there was glass on

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three sides. We put the Christmas tree right in the middle of that. My father being a purchasing agent got all kinds of— Why don't I tell you the things that are important to me.

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I had uterine cancer due to having unopposed estrogen for years. I had a hysterectomy and radiation. That radiation ruined my sphincters. For me to have diarrhea is not a little affair.

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Then I had bladder cancer, and he removed that two or three times. Then I had a treatment called BCT, which was an experimental treatment with a bacterial solution put right into the bladder. It was supposed to increase the immune system, and it did because I have not had it since.

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Then I had an obstruction in my bowel and found out it was a colon cancer, about as big as an apple, which was blocking the whole area. After that, I did not have chemotherapy, because they said it was not needed, since it was all contained.

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So then my doctor very smartly followed up on a CEA test, a test for cancer, and found out that my colonoscopy that I had was small colon cancer. But however, when he operated on me, it was in the outside of the colon and it was growing into the bladder and his endogyna.

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So it was a very aggressive tumor. So that's why I had to have chemotherapy. Okay that's my medical history. Tell me about your son.

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You just have one son? Yeah. And four daughters. I gave you most of the information on the questionnaire.

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What I want to know is when did you have your face lift? Two years ago. Oh, you did? You look too good to be in this bed.

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I think I'm very lucky because my hair is just beginning to turn gray and I don't have very many wrinkles. I didn't know that. So whatever.

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Now you want to hear the history of my activism? Levy-Trapp: Absolutely. Litz: Well, let's see, it started—let's see. I joined the Unitarian Church in 1941, and that's what got me out of the conservative

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Republican background that I was in. Let's see, what else? After I got home from the WAAF, since I was brought up as an only child, I really wanted to have a big family.

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Six was my goal. It had got to be enough, three. My husband was a liberal activist. In fact, he once belonged to a communist cell.

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He got me thinking along these lines, too. So when the Vietnam War came along, I was right out there taking place in all kinds of peace marches and stuff. Took some of my kids along to some of them.

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Then when the Women's Liberation Movement came along, I was right in the forefront of that. I think I helped start the chapter now. Then I read Betty Friedan's book and decided I had to go back to work.

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In the meantime, we had built a Franklin Wright house. We made the blocks, and I laid them up, and Sam came home at night and poured the concrete around them. Levy: You built your house.

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When you say you built your house, you built. Litz: I did. Sam was really good at carpentry, electricity, plumbing. So we couldn't afford it otherwise.

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He came to Oakjohn's as a Ph.D. biochemist, but they didn't pay him very much in those days. After getting three master's degrees at Western, I went to work at the VA. I worked with substance abusers.

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I loved it. They did not love me, because they did not think my methods were any good. I didn't think their methods were any good. So I fought and won five sexual discrimination cases from the VA.

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That's an achievement. After I retired from the VA, I wrote a book about my experiences. [phone rings] My goodness.

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I'm going to have to read this book, Dorothy. Well, the doctor might be here then. Hey, Dorothy. Yeah, they really are.

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Kids turned out fine. Okay, and you wrote this book. Yeah. What's the name of it?

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Is Living Killing You? And it's published? I published it. Good for you.

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I couldn't get anybody else to do it. That's a loss for you. Yep. So I think that's most of my important stuff.

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That's incredibly important stuff. That's why I objected to this questionnaire that said, "Volunteer work," and didn't say anything about activism work. Kelly: I guess Spielberg didn't ask that, so I didn't think about it.

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Litz: No, of course he wouldn't. Kelly: Can you tell me what being in the WASP meant to you? Litz: It meant that I have become incredibly famous. It was a wonderful opportunity to meet men.

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I like parties, so it was a wonderful opportunity to party. It has nothing to do with flying, does it? Kelly: Got you on fly, baby. You know, that's the best answer we've had so far.

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Litz: The most honest, anyway. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And that's what this is about.

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And the reason I got into flying in the first place was that a friend of mine who didn't have a college education found out that she could get in if she took a test in a CPT program. And also I found out that if I did have a college education, I didn't have to take the test.

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So I never could resist anything free. Had you already finished college when you went into the WASP? Oh yeah. Wow.

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But then you went back. I was twenty-five. Were you? Uh-huh.

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you went back and took the CPT course though, from the college? Is that how you learned to fly? Litz: Yeah. They gave CPT classes out at Austin Lake here. One of my current boyfriends also took it.

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Reifeldt: Why did you want to learn to fly? Litz: Because it was free. When did you hear about the WASP training? Litz: Well, I was going to go into something.

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I was full of patriotism in those days. I was going to go into something. I applied for the Navy, and then this WASP thing came up. I thought, "Well, what the hell?

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I can try that." So I got in. What did your mom and dad think? Well, actually when I got my CPT training I didn't tell my mother for a while.

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Were you ever able to take them up? I took my mother up once. Almost killed her. I went up in a UC-78 flying around the airport in Lansing in a fog. It would have been a short trip.

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Do you want to tell on the tape where you were sent after you graduated from the WASP program? Your stations? Oh, George Field, Illinois. What did you do there?

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Engineering and just piloting. What kind of airplanes there? Mostly AT-11s, UC-78s. But I'm a little bit unclear.

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I thought I checked out in a P-40 there, but according to my logbook, I didn't do that until I was a fourth summoner. Then from George, where were you sent? I was sent to Bryan, Texas for instrument training.

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And then Doris and I went down to Turner Field, Georgia. I am not quite sure where the OCS came in there. Levy: And at Turner, what did you do? Litz: Oh, the stinker.

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Didn't like women fliers, so he had B-25s there and he wouldn't let us fly them. We did check out, but most of the time we spent in an off-airport in the control tower. Did you contact Jacqueline Cochran and tell her, "This is not flying"? No.

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I hadn't learned to be assertive yet. I'm sure glad you did. And were you deactivated at Turner when the WASP was deactivated? No.

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Okay, where else did you go? We went to Colorado Springs. Wonderful time there. And then went to Fort Sumner, New Mexico.

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That's where we were deactivated. Okay. And at Peterson at Colorado Springs, what did you do? Oh, we didn't do anything.

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We just waited for reassignment and had fun. And then at your last base at Fort Sumter? Fort Sumter. What was your assignment there?

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I was co-pilot on a C-53. Were you doing engineering tests? No, we were flying people. People, liaison.

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I would have checked out as a first pilot in a C-53, except for my own stupidity. I managed to fall and hit my head down in Galveston, Texas, when we were taking people for RON. So I spent the last two weeks in the hospital. And after that two weeks we were deactivated. Where did you go after deactivation?

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Kalamazoo. Was that home? No, actually, Lansing. I want to know how you met this good-looking guy that you married.

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Him. Well, he was very shy, and I think I was the only one that was nice to him at Upton's. I talked him into it. What were the qualities that attracted you to him?

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Litz: A high degree of intelligence and a cultural background that I didn't have. When you came to Kalamazoo, did you start back to college to get other degrees? Litz: No. I got married a year after.

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What was your wedding like, Dorothy? It was a traditional wedding. It was at Stetson Chapel, which is up at Kay College. And I had a long white gown and a reception afterwards. And then we went all the way up to Grand Rapids for our honeymoon at the Pantlin Hotel.

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And these days, Dorothy, what are you, tell us about playing bridge. When did you learn to play bridge? Well, my folks were bridge players. So I'd always been some sort of bridge player. But But then when I retired, I had more time to take in more difficult bridge games.

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Three a week, no difficult bridge. And now what makes you happy? Get out of the damn hospital. my health back. Not to have a stomach or diarrhea of the arms. All kinds of negative things.

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Dorothy, during your lifetime, what has gotten you through the bad times? When you've had sad times, what has gotten you through those? The reason I divorced my husband was that I went to a sensitivity group. Do you remember what those were?

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I found out that I had been very passive. Instead of standing up for myself, I sort of just out and cheers. So I came home and got a divorce. How did that affect your children?

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My daughter Margaret, who was only twelve at the time, she was really upset by it. Everybody else I think thought it was probably a good idea. I do not think I can do this much more. Well, I just wondered as the last thing if you would like to tell us what you would say

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to children 50 years from now that you did so much. I don't think I'll be here 50 years from now. Yeah, but they might listen to this tape 50 years from now. And what would you say to them that might encourage them to do things that they didn't dream possible?

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Well, they have always been very big dreamers. I told you about that in the questionnaire. John and Debbie started a small business together. John invented a medical device that puts different kinds of things into your veins without a

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needle. D and Debbie have gone all over the world getting venture capital. I don't think I could improve on them. What would you say to children that you don't know that might encourage them to succeed?

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Read my biography. Okay. Listen, this is one of the best interviews we've done. Oh, good.

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Oh, thank you for doing that. Yeah, thank you for... You've had a wonderful life. Yeah.

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Really. I really have. And aren't you blessed to have those children? Yes.

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Absolutely. My daughter Betsy, my oldest daughter, is an architect in Chicago. She designs hospitals. Really?

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And my youngest daughter, Margaret, just got her Ph.D. in environmental engineering and she just got a tenure track position at the University of Vermont. And let's see what else. How many grandchildren? Nine.

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[laughter] - A legacy that goes on and on. - Yeah, right. - Right.

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- Have they read your book? - Some of them have. - Okay, having written a book, of all the things you've done,

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what are you most proud of? You've done a lot of things. - Getting a divorce, I think. (laughing)

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- You have not lost your sense of humor. - No, that was really important. - Yeah. It was hard to do because everybody thought I was such a rat for doing it.

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I just knew I had to do it. Wow. Well, I wish I had been in your class. Well, thank you.

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We don't want to tire you out. No, we don't. We already have, I think. We're finished with that.

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Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to unclip you here.

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You and your little flying buddy here. Yes. That is so cute.