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... or their mugs or something somewhere. And the last one was to give the final toast after they all died. And so he did, etc., etc., etc. It was a dear story.

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[Alarm clock] Okay, I'm Deemie Parrish. We're in the home of Doris Tanner in Union City, Tennessee. She's a WASA Class 44 W4.

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Today is the 12th of August, 2000. Doris, if you would just start off by telling us your name and where you were born and when, and we'll start with your life and go through it. I'll do it.

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And before you do that, Doris, I'm going to run over here while the camera's running and move this out of my shot. Okay. I don't think we're going to see it.

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I do have other badges I could put on. Now, you don't see it now, I don't think, Nancy. Let's see. I could turn a little bit.

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I don't think we're going to see it, Doris. Yeah. How's that? Okay, I think it's going to be okay.

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Okay. Well, now, what did you say? Start off with your name and when you were born and where and who your parents were and your siblings and go from there.

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Okay. Well, my mother was -- Who are you? Who am I?

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I'm Doris Brinker Tanner. Tanner's my married name. My maiden name was Doris Brinker. I was born December the 6th, 1919, in Dallas, Texas at the Baylor Hospital.

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And my father paid the bill, which was $3.50, and took me and my mother home to Lassiter, Texas, where he ran a little ranch, but his real heart was in music because he was a musician and a drummer, and so he quit the ranching business, which his father had wanted him to do. Instead, he started his own little band, and they did one-night stands all over East Texas.

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And I used to -- when I got older, and he was still playing when I was, oh, six or eight years old, sometimes my grandmother would let me go with him in the old Model T Ford as he and all of his musician friends piled into the Model T to go from one place to another, and I would get to hear them play.

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And so if you can imagine, here's this 8-year-old kid riding all across Texas in an old Model T with a bunch of drunken musicians. But we had a wonderful time. I thought it was marvelous. And Texas is a wonderful place to have grown up in during that time.

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It was a free, wide-open country, and there was no whatever restrictions. Women could do or be just about anything they wanted to be or do. And so I grew up under those circumstances. My mother and father divorced when I was about eight, and mother married a couple of years later.

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She had moved to Dallas and become a bookkeeper and an accountant and a cashier and was working at the Adolphus Hotel. And an interesting side light on that, mother died recently, and we had to clean out her house. And so in going through the attic, I came across this beautiful big picture.

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Really, I should show you a photo of that picture. It's called "The Spanish Cavalier," and it hung in daddy's office. He was the vice president and manager of the Adolphus Hotel. And when he left, he retired, and they moved to Brownsville, Tennessee,

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to pursue the idyllic life of the rural countryside in which you sat around and drank mint juleps most of the time, but it didn't quite turn out that way because the cows all were bawling out in the field and he had to go water and feed the cows.

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But anyway, they moved to Brownsville, and that's how I happened to come to Tennessee from Texas. -Tell me about your siblings. -I have an own sister who is two years younger than I. Her name is Glen Rose.

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She lives in Washington, D.C., Fairfax, really, I think is the place where she lives. And then I have two half-sisters. Sally is 63 years old now, and she is a lawyer in Costa Mesa near Los Angeles, California. She's the brain of the family.

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And then I have a sister four years younger, and she is named for mother. Her name is Carmelene. She's an artist and married and lives in Castle Rock, Colorado. And she's the artist in the family and has an art business,

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an advertising business, and does beautiful, beautiful work and beautiful things. -Tell me about when you started to school. Where did you start elementary? -Elementary school, I went to Stephen J. Hay School in Dallas, Texas

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for my years in grammar school in Dallas. And then I went to Woodrow Wilson High School until my junior year, which was when mother and daddy moved to Brownsville, Tennessee. And so I moved to Brownsville and completed my high school in Brownsville.

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And then I went on to the University of Tennessee at Knoxville. And I chose to go to the University of Tennessee at Knoxville because the boy that I was so desperately in love with at the time, Charlie Taylor, oh, he had this gorgeous black hair and these big brown eyes.

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He was such a doll. So I went to Knoxville to be with-- We went together at least two weeks after I got there. And found out there were other boys just as cute as Charlie.

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I was a tri-del, had a wonderful four years of college. It was the great days of football for Tennessee. They think they're something now, but they couldn't hold a candle to Bob Naylan and Suffrage and Cafigo

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and all of those. We had great football teams. >> Okay. Let us go back, Doris, when you were in school. Do you remember any special teachers that might have influenced you in school?

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>> Yes, I had-- We had some great--Texas had a wonderful school system, absolutely wonderful school system. And public schools, but they were great.

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And I had a math teacher, Mrs. Neblett was her name, and I hated the multiplication tables. But if we learned them, there was an old tamale dealer out on the corner of the schoolyard.

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He had a little push cart, and he pushed all over Dallas with tamales for sale. And if we got it right, and instead of giving us a hundred or an A or whatever, we got three tamales to eat. And they'd bring them in on newspaper.

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Oh, they were so good. That was the real thing. We didn't know about the pure food and drug laws then, and we never got sick, and they were just great.

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They were really delicious. And I had a wonderful writing teacher. Kids can't write now. I don't know how they manage, but her name was Leticia Brown.

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She stood about 4'8", and she looked just like a little powder pigeon, but she could write with both hands simultaneously going this way and this way, and it would come out just perfect. She was a remarkable penmanship, and she had us doing this and this

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until we all learned how to. And Miss Brown would come around, and if you weren't doing your--exactly right, you got tapped on the knuckles with her little ruler until you got it right. And, of course, nowadays that would be abuse,

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and they would probably haul her into court or something. But back then we had teachers like that, a wonderful art teacher, had a wonderful music teacher. We listened to Walter Damrosch.

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I don't know if you ever remember Walter Damrosch, a famous conductor at that time, and we would have Music Appreciation Day. And I got a great education in the public schools of Dallas. >> Do you remember any extracurricular activities that you were involved in,

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in either junior high or high school? >> Well, I was always involved in sports. Mother was a sports addict. We followed SMU's football team religiously in their careers,

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and Mother was also a great golfer. She played out at the Dallas Country Club with Babe Dietrichson and Betty Jamison and some of the great golfers in Dallas, and so I've always loved sports. She would take my sister and take me to the swimming pool,

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and we would take swimming lessons and do all of that while she was out on the golf course playing. So we had a great exposure to sports in Dallas at an early age. I've always loved basketball and baseball and football.

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>> Do you ever remember meeting Babe Dietrichson? >> I don't remember it, no. >> Okay. Do you remember--what were your dreams when you were in junior high and high school?

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>> My dreams--just making good grades and getting through. It was fun. I don't think children were pushed so hard back then. It was not--nowadays we push our children so hard to achieve,

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but back then it was more self-motivation to learn, and I loved school and I loved learning, and I think that's missing in our schools today. Children don't know the joy of learning like we did,

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although I can't say the multiplication tables were any joyful event. >> Do you remember vacations that you might have had? What were they like? >> Wonderful.

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Mother took us--mother was divorced and was working, and she took my sister and me and our babysitter-- she was a permanent live-in babysitter, Maudie was her name-- and she took us all to Galveston to see the ocean.

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We had never seen the ocean. And so we went to Galveston and we spent the whole first day on the beach, and we spent the whole next day in the hospital. We were so sunburned.

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Oh, Mother didn't know, we didn't know, no one told us, but we really got burned and burned good. But I always have loved the ocean ever since that first visit to Galveston. >> Can you tell me what was a Christmas like in your home when you were growing up?

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>> Well, during that period of time, remember we were in a depression. After 1929 in the early '30s up until the time when the war and Lend-Lease started, we were in a depression, and for Christmas it was wonderful. If we got a Hershey bar and a candy bar and an apple and an orange and some peanuts,

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that was wonderful. And Mother would make doll clothes for us for our Christmas presents. And so it was a time--everybody was poor. We didn't know we were poor.

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There was no dichotomy between rich and poor at the time. And so Christmas was more a time of the family being together and just playing and having a good time. >> When you were growing up, where were your grandparents?

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>> Sulphur Springs, Texas, was where my father was from, and his grandparents lived there. His father was a cotton broker, Ed Brinker. He was a Dutchman.

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His family had come from Holland originally to be an overseer on George Washington's plantation. That was my father's grandfather, I think, or great-grandfather. It goes back that far. The Brinkers are all Dutch, as I am.

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So they lived in Sulphur Springs, and I used to spend-- when school was out, I would go to Sulphur Springs to spend the summer, some weeks with them in Sulphur Springs. >> Where were they living in Sulphur Springs?

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Were they in the city, or were they out-- >> 402 College Street, one block off of the square. They had a square. It was a typical Texas town.

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>> Do you remember anything special about your grandparents? >> I remember my grandfather always bought us a case of soda pop when we got there, and that was a real big deal because you didn't just buy a Coke whenever you wanted one. We used to drink Chocolate Soldiers.

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They were so good. It was mostly water with a little brown coloring in it, I think, but they tasted good, and Orange Crush and New Grape and all of those, and we just thought that was a wonderful event to have one soda pop a day.

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My grandmother thought it was terrible. She thought he was ruining our digestive systems, and so she said, "Now you bring me one of those Coca-Colas, and I'll show you what it does to children," and she put a raw piece of bacon down in the Coca-Cola,

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and she said, "Now when I take it out in the morning, you'll see it's all disintegrated. It's just gone. It's just that's what it's done to your stomach." Well, when she took it out the next morning, it hadn't anything happened to it,

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and I've been drinking Cokes ever since. How about your mother's parents? They were dead. My mother's mother died when my mother was just 10,

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and she went to live with her sister who was 20 years older and married and had no children, so she lived with her as she grew up. Her father lived much longer. Pop lived a long time, and he used to take me to the Texas State Fair.

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That was his big thing every year, and he'd give me 40 cents to spend any way I wanted to, and the first thing I got was cotton candy. I don't know if they still have cotton candy or not. It's a big fluffy thing, and there's not much to it,

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but we thought that cotton candy was great, and I think it cost all of a nickel or a dime, and I usually got pretty sick by the time I got home. What were your ambitions when you were in high school, for when you graduated? To marry Clark Gable.

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I saw Gone with the Wind, I think, I don't know how many times, and I still swoon over Clark Gable, but I guess I got the next best thing. What was your social life like when you were in high school? Oh, we had a great time.

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We went out to a little old place that had a little bitty old postage stamp dance floor and danced to what was the name of it, Blueberry Hill, and great tunes. It was a great time of music, a great time to be alive, to dance, and really I guess it was an innocent generation.

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We didn't drink or smoke, and I think the reason we didn't drink or smoke was because we couldn't afford to drink or smoke. We didn't have any money. If we could buy a Coke, it had to last the whole night, but we danced,

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and we had a good time. We enjoyed each other. Could you tell me about your prom? My what? Your prom.

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My prom. High school prom. Don't think we had one. Okay, then tell me about your graduation.

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My graduation was just a standard graduation. We had societies, the Delta Society and the Theta Society or something, the Sigma and the Delta, and we had debates, and we prepared debates on current events,

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and we had recitations and things like that, but we didn't have entertainment much back then. Were you in drama or any plays or anything like that? I was not in the senior play.

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I was on the debating team, and I did that route rather than going into the plays. We did have a senior play. Right. Were you in the band? We didn't have a band.

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Do you remember any special boyfriends you might have had in high school? Let's see, in high school. Well, we didn't do back then. We didn't do back in the late '30s like they do now.

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Now they go steady forever. We didn't know about--we didn't do that. You dated lots of different boys in your class, and that's what everybody did back then, and we just had a great time.

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We had a crowd of us who would go to these parties and things, our class, our whole class. When you graduated from high school, did you know at that time where you were going to school,

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and how did you select that school? Because Charlie Taylor was going to the University of Tennessee at Knoxville, and I thought he was just about the coolest, best-looking thing I had ever seen next to Clark Gable, and because he was going to Knoxville,

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I decided I'd better go too. So he was a senior when I was a junior. And so the year after I graduated--that coming fall-- I graduated in 1937 in the spring, and in the fall I entered

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the University of Tennessee at Knoxville and got up there and went with Charlie for two weeks, and I discovered all these other cute boys. How did your mother feel about your leaving home to go to school? I think she was delighted.

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When you got to the university, where did you stay? In a dormitory. Everybody stayed in dormitories. There was no such thing then much as living out in town, only under very special circumstances.

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What were you going to major in in college, or did you know? I had no idea at the time. Gradually I found my niche in history and decided I wanted to be a teacher, and then I wanted to teach English and history.

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Do you know what made you love history? Was there a teacher or-- My stepfather was very oriented in history, and he really taught us at home,

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and we would have Sunday dinner conversations about who Napoleon was and what Napoleon had done and why Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo, and always our current events, and forever that was just

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the table conversation, and even World War II, he and my husband talked endlessly about the war and events. Tell me about your sorority in college. I was a tri-delta, delta, delta, delta,

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and I'm sorry that every girl who goes to college can't have the experience of a group of about 30 close friends, warm friendships, caring. I still have some of those friendships,

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especially with the girl that was my little sister and the one that was my big sister when I was in college. It was a wonderful, wonderful relationship. We enjoyed it, had good dances.

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We put on formal dances with the long white gloves and the formal evening dresses, and now I think they go in ragged blue jeans. But we had a great time growing up.

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While you were there, did you come home for the summers? Uh-huh, and I worked as a camp counselor, usually at a Girl Scout camp or some camp teaching swimming. I was usually a swimming instructor in the camps

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or a lifeguard or something. As you went on through college, did you become a special-- did you have some special male friends? Well, I think Bill and I became friends

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probably the last part of our junior year. He and I were in the same class, and then I took his ATO pin when we were seniors, and then we went steady our senior year.

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And then, of course, after we graduated in June of '41, then you have December the 6th, 1941, when Moore started. Can you tell me what qualities Bill had that attracted you to him?

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Well, he was tall and good-looking, and he was the only one on the campus who had a car. [laughs] It was nice not to walk everywhere.

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Knoxville's hilly. First week you're in school, your legs get real sore from climbing up and down the hills. While you were in college,

00:22:46.000 - 00:22:56.000

where had your mother and stepfather-- where were they living? They were in Brownsville, Tennessee. Mother died in Brownsville just recently.

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And did you get to visit them quite often? Well, Christmas-- I'd go home for Christmas, and also I'd go home for summer vacations unless there was something going on that I wanted to do

00:23:12.000 - 00:23:23.000

or that Myrtle, my roommate, and I wanted to do. We'd sometimes go and visit some other suite-mates or something like that. And I'd go back to Dallas, too, to visit.

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Can you tell me how your stepfather felt when he realized you were interested in history, that you were going to major in that? He was very pleased.

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He was very pleased and encouraged me, and I think that's why I got into history so much. Plus, I think Southerners are just into history probably more than ordinary.

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Southerners are very big, I think, on history. Do you know what his background was that made him so interested in history? No, except that his mother was from a very prominent family,

00:24:06.000 - 00:24:26.000

the Boyd family in Brownsville. Their roots go way back to the founders of Haywood County, and it's just part of a Southerner's life, I think. When you and Bill started going together in your junior year?

00:24:26.000 - 00:24:37.000

Well, we had known each other from our freshman year. We were in the same class. And we would dance. Back then, the boys broke--

00:24:37.000 - 00:24:50.000

they called it breaking on a girl. And we danced together and would see each other at parties, at the ATO parties or whatever. We'd had a few dates.

00:24:50.000 - 00:25:01.000

His roommate was from Brownsville, Robert Hutchison, was a Brownsville boy and a friend of mine. And when did you become engaged to Bill? Our senior year.

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It, I think, was Christmas of 19-- well, probably Christmas of 1940. Can you tell us about how that happened? How we got engaged?

00:25:15.000 - 00:25:29.000

I think it was an accident. I don't think I knew what I was doing. I really don't. But then I've never really known what I was doing.

00:25:29.000 - 00:25:46.000

What did Bill expect to do after he graduated, do you know? Well, he was already ROTC in college. And after he graduated, he knew he was going on into war. And he knew that he was going to be sent overseas with Patton.

00:25:46.000 - 00:26:00.000

He had been stationed at Fort Bragg. And he came home that Christmas after Pearl Harbor. And I was teaching school there in--I was living there in Brownsville and teaching school at Stanton in a little four-room house.

00:26:00.000 - 00:26:15.000

Mr. Scott was my principal, and I was teaching the 7th and 8th grades all in one room, all subjects. Still can't work the 7th grade arithmetic problems. And he came home that Christmas and said that he felt pretty sure

00:26:15.000 - 00:26:25.000

that they were going overseas. And since they were going overseas, he thought we ought to go ahead and get married right away before he was sent overseas.

00:26:25.000 - 00:26:42.000

And so, well, I said, "Well, I don't think so." And so we talked back and forth, yes and no and yes and no. And finally he said, "Oh, but I might get killed, and I'll never see you again." And I said, "Well, if you promise to get killed, I'll marry you."

00:26:42.000 - 00:26:54.000

So he promised to get killed, but he didn't. He came home. Let me back up just a moment and ask you if you know, if you remember where you were and how you felt when Pearl Harbor happened.

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It was a shock. We couldn't believe it. We heard it on the radio. And it took a long time to really realize what had happened

00:27:05.000 - 00:27:26.000

until we went to church and everybody was talking and all that before we really realized what had happened was real. And it gradually dawned on us that we were going to be at war. Were you and Bill living in the same town at that time?

00:27:26.000 - 00:27:37.000

No, he lived in Union City and I lived in Brownsville. Well, he was stationed at Fort Bragg. He was not living at home any longer. So when he graduated from college, he went right into the Army.

00:27:37.000 - 00:27:45.000

Right. And you were teaching. Mm-hmm, in Brownsville. Living in Brownsville and teaching at school in Stanton.

00:27:45.000 - 00:27:59.000

What subjects were you teaching? Seventh and eighth grades, all subjects. Math, English, spelling, the whole works. Have you kept in touch with any of the children that you taught?

00:27:59.000 - 00:28:22.000

Yes, I kept in touch with May Alice Dunlap, but I understand she's dead now, and the Barnes boy, Sammy Barnes. When Bill and I married, we married at my grandfather's house, which is three miles outside of Brownsville on Highway 80.

00:28:22.000 - 00:28:37.000

And Sammy walked all the way out to Granddaddy's house to see me get married. I thought that was the sweetest, sweetest thing. And they were darling, darling children. I loved them dearly.

00:28:37.000 - 00:28:44.000

I had found my niche teaching school. Tell us about your wedding. Well, it was very simple. It was wartime.

00:28:44.000 - 00:29:06.000

There wasn't even a photographer in Brownsville at the time that I could get and could afford. And so it was a very simple home wedding. The florist just fixed sort of an altar, you might say, with some stands of candles and some gladiolas.

00:29:06.000 - 00:29:21.000

It was very simple. And I wore just an evening dress, and I had one attendant, my sister Glenrose. Were your parents there? No, my grandfather gave me away.

00:29:21.000 - 00:29:45.000

My stepfather's father was in his house that we were married. And Helen Tripp McDow played the music, played the piano. She's an accomplished musician, and she played the wedding. But it was a simple home wartime wedding because Bill had to report in at midnight Sunday night.

00:29:45.000 - 00:30:12.000

And you see, we had to drive all the way from Brownsville clear to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, during that time. That night we went to Jackson for our first night of wedded bliss, and my very practical and very wise mother had packed into my suitcase a big bottle of champagne. And so when we got to the room and opened my suitcase, there was the champagne,

00:30:12.000 - 00:30:31.000

which Bill took downstairs and had the waiter in the dining room, because the New Southern Hotel had a dining room and waiters, and he had the waiter put it in a bucket of ice. And so when we came down, we ordered big steaks, you know, big-time stuff for our first night of our honeymoon.

00:30:31.000 - 00:30:51.000

And he opened the champagne, and we began having our champagne. And by the time the steaks got there, I couldn't even see the steak, much less cut it. So we got back to the room, and I passed out cold. So Bill had a wonderful wedded evening.

00:30:51.000 - 00:31:15.000

We started on the next morning early going to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, in an old jalopy that he had bought from a colored friend of his for the amount of money that he could afford to pay. And we got up around Asheville somewhere, and the car broke down. And so there we were having to get to Fort Bragg by Sunday midnight, and the car broken down,

00:31:15.000 - 00:31:36.000

and here I am with this big bouquet that he had sent. He thought if one gardenia was good, he'd send two dozen. So my bridal bouquet consisted of two dozen gardenias, and it was in the back seat with my wedding dress and everything that I possessed in the world, which wasn't much.

00:31:36.000 - 00:31:53.000

And he worked on the car that second night of our wedded bliss. He was spent trying to get the car to run, finally got the connections with the battery or whatever it was, and we limped on into just a place. I'll never forget it.

00:31:53.000 - 00:32:13.000

It was just a wide place in the road, but there was a general store there. And so they took us in. Of course, it was way up in the middle of the night, and put us in, I guess, a sort of an upstairs room or attic or whatever they had. And all they had was just a straw mattress on the bed.

00:32:13.000 - 00:32:27.000

And so finally we both just got up and set up. The bed bugs were so bad, we couldn't sleep. That was quite a honeymoon. But we finally got to Fort Bragg just in the nick of time.

00:32:27.000 - 00:32:48.000

In fact, we were a little bit late. It was after midnight, but down at the bottom of the sign-in sheet, there was one little space left, and so he got his name in that one little space to show that he got there before they turned the page and started another sign-in sheet. So that was the beginning of our married life, was at Southern Pines.

00:32:48.000 - 00:33:15.000

He had a little apartment rented at Southern Pines while he was stationed over at Fort Bragg. -And what did you do while he was stationed at that base? -Well, the first thing I did was discover that his parents and all of his kin were coming to see us in a week. So a week after we got there, here came 13 relatives to visit us.

00:33:15.000 - 00:33:46.000

His mother, his dad, Uncle Clarence and Aunt Lucille, Minnie, Mike, my sister Glen Rose came with them, and who else? I've forgotten, but there was this huge crowd of people. We had a little two-room apartment, but Bill's mother was a wonderful cook, and she brought all sorts of good things to eat, and she managed beautifully on that little old burner of a little old bitty stove that I had.

00:33:46.000 - 00:34:02.000

-Had you met all these relatives before? -Yeah, they came to the wedding. Most of them came to the wedding. It was a family wedding, a very small family private wedding. -How long were you stationed there?

00:34:02.000 - 00:34:24.000

-He went overseas in October. We married in March. And I actually learned that you bought eggs by the dozen and other things by the pound, and I learned how to cook a little bit, couldn't boil water, and learned how to cook a little bit. And, oh, I could open a can like that.

00:34:24.000 - 00:34:36.000

[Laughs] So he went overseas in October, I think. -How did you feel about that? -About his going overseas? Well, our whole generation thought they'd be home by Easter.

00:34:36.000 - 00:34:57.000

They'd just go over there and knock them off, and that'd be the end of that. They'd be back home in no time. Never occurred to us anybody'd get killed. -So what did you do when he left to go overseas? -I started working at the Army Air Force offices, which was out at Knollwood Field.

00:34:57.000 - 00:35:16.000

I was a clerical. Well, I was a filing clerk, was what I was. I couldn't type. I didn't have any skills, really. I didn't know how to do anything except teach school, so I didn't really have much job. But jobs were very plentiful then during the war because there was such a shortage.

00:35:16.000 - 00:35:32.000

Men were all in the Army. -And was this, what, 1942? -Uh-huh. We married in '42. And then in November of '43, I joined the Air Force and went into pilot training

00:35:32.000 - 00:35:53.000

in the Air Force with Jackie Cochran's newly organized outfit. -Okay. Let me go back and ask you, do you remember the first time you saw an airplane and how you felt? -Well, airplanes, I guess, were not the novelty to me in Texas

00:35:53.000 - 00:36:20.000

that they were to many of the girls because I had an uncle who was only nine years older than I. Edwin was my father's younger brother, much, much younger than my father. And he had a plane and had been flying for some time and had been in the Navy and was a Navy pilot. And so I was around someone who talked aviation and that sort of thing.

00:36:20.000 - 00:36:40.000

And then I worked for the Army Air Force there at No Wood Field, so I was around people who--and living, I mean, you know, and working right there on an airfield. So I guess that's how I got acquainted with it. -Do you remember when you first decided you wanted to learn to fly?

00:36:40.000 - 00:36:59.000

-Well, that was back in college when the old civilian pilot training program was in effect. And when I was making out my schedule for my senior year, I could work that in and we got credit for it. And it didn't cost very much, practically nothing.

00:36:59.000 - 00:37:31.000

And so I had 35 hours for, I think, $35 in private license, and that was how I got into it. Just strictly as something you would do. -Can you tell me about the first time you went up in an airplane, about your instructor, and the first time you soloed? -I can tell you about the first time I soloed, because I got up there and realized that I was all by myself

00:37:31.000 - 00:37:48.000

and that I had to bring that thing down onto the ground. And I circled that airfield six times, trying to get up enough courage to put the thing on the ground. And finally I ran out of gasoline and I had to land. -Were there other girls flying at the same time?

00:37:48.000 - 00:38:23.000

-No. There was one girl for every ten men in the class, and I was the only girl who applied in the class of twenty men. -Tell me about your ground school training. -I know I had a book and I had to study and take a test, but I don't really remember much about it. I think we had, I remember more about meteorology than anything, learning the different kinds of clouds and about the weather.

00:38:23.000 - 00:38:52.000

That's about the biggest thing I remember about ground school. -From the time you finished that course and got married, when was the next time you decided you wanted to fly some more? -I think after Bill went overseas and I was still around the airfield and working in the office, I wanted to do more for the war effort.

00:38:52.000 - 00:39:20.000

And when that opportunity came up, I went from Southern Pines to Washington, to the Pentagon, and was interviewed by Ethel Sheehy, and that's where I met Cochran for the first time. And they interviewed me and I was accepted as a trainee and assigned to Class 44W4. -Do you remember your first impressions of Cochran?

00:39:20.000 - 00:39:43.000

-I thought she was beautiful. She had such lovely eyes, big, brown, very expressive eyes. And while I was there that day, and I don't know why or how it happened, but for some reason no one else was going to lunch and she was ready to go to lunch.

00:39:43.000 - 00:40:05.000

And Sheehy had something she had to do and somebody else something, so she asked me to go to lunch with her. And so I had lunch with Cochran that very first day, and I'll never forget her. She had on a wool jersey, was very popular back then, and she had on a sort of a turban with a long sort of a funnel trail

00:40:05.000 - 00:40:30.000

and then a big ball of yarn on the bottom of it in this gorgeous black and white dress. And it was--I've forgotten, it was cold, I remember it was cold. And she said, "Oh, I know this great little French restaurant, we'll go there." Well, I didn't know a French restaurant from a McDonald's,

00:40:30.000 - 00:40:47.000

only there weren't any McDonald's then back in those days. But anyway, she took us to this great French restaurant and she ordered. Everything was in French and I couldn't--I just sat there like a stone. I was so awestruck by her anyway.

00:40:47.000 - 00:41:06.000

I could have said more than "May we" or "Silvou play" was about all I could get at. But she ordered for us and we had a delightful lunch. And then when lunch was over, she said, "Oh, it's such a gorgeous day, let's walk back." And so we walked back to the Pentagon from this little French restaurant, wherever it was.

00:41:06.000 - 00:41:22.000

But there weren't so many people there then, and it wasn't so much traffic, and you could do things like that. So we walked back to the Pentagon and I never forgot her. Charming, she could charm the birds out of a tree.

00:41:22.000 - 00:41:38.000

She's a wonderful conversationalist, wonderful conversationalist. They forget that about her. I mean, she would ask questions like, "Well, what do you think the role between men and women is going to be in 1960?"

00:41:38.000 - 00:41:55.000

And I looked at her like--no one had ever even talked about the differences between men and women. I didn't even know they existed. But she was something else. I'll tell you, Cochran has not gotten the--

00:41:55.000 - 00:42:11.000

Better get the camera going. Okay. We're rolling. Well, I think people felt they either really liked Cochran a whole lot, I mean, and adored her, or they loved her.

00:42:11.000 - 00:42:31.000

I mean, you know, there was no--you either loved her or you hated her. She was that kind of person, and I happened to be one that admired her greatly and had a great relationship with her. And I wish she had gotten more credit.

00:42:31.000 - 00:42:47.000

She deserved more credit for what she did. She was really a great gal. And Floyd Odlum, her husband, said to Deaton one time, he wished the girls felt toward Cochran like they felt toward Deaton.

00:42:47.000 - 00:43:11.000

But, of course, we had a much closer relationship, much--I mean, direct proximity with Deaton. Saw her every day, and we didn't with Cochran. But I'm a great admirer of Cochran and what she did. And when we had our reunion in--oh, I can't remember where we had.

00:43:11.000 - 00:43:31.000

We had the reunion at Cochran's house, one reunion, and I'm not just sure-- I guess that was Indio, wasn't it? Isn't that where her ranch was and her house was in Indio? And at any rate, I knew vaguely where Cochran was buried,

00:43:31.000 - 00:43:55.000

and I finally found her grave and her marker. And I told the girls the next day, and so Kay and Jerry and some of the rest of us went out to her grave, and I think now she gets more recognition for what she did than she did at first. - I want to ask you, Doris, why do you think some people disliked her?

00:43:55.000 - 00:44:23.000

- She was very brusque. She could speak in a very sharp manner, and she was very definite and very opinionated and very powerful. And I think that's one reason she rubbed people the wrong way, but she never did me particularly. - After you had this interview with Cochran, did you know that day?

00:44:23.000 - 00:44:40.000

Did they tell you what to expect or if you were accepted or--? - Don't think they did. I think they sent me a letter later. I received the letter, and I was assigned to Class 44W4, which was to start the 1st of November.

00:44:40.000 - 00:45:10.000

Well, actually it was supposed to have started sooner, but there were delays because of weather, and so we didn't--I think that's why some classes didn't start when they should have. At any rate, we were not too far behind, but we did get the doggone-est weather we could possibly have gotten. You just don't enjoy flying in January in Sweetwater.

00:45:10.000 - 00:45:33.000

The winds--well, you remember the winds and the snow and the cold and open cockpits. My mouth--I'd come in with my frostbitten--where my mucus from your nose would drip on your upper lip, and my feet were permanently damaged. My heels still hurt from frostbite.

00:45:33.000 - 00:45:55.000

We didn't have any--at first, we didn't have any--don't you remember? We didn't have any winter flying gear for a long time until the class ahead of us graduated and left us or left their winter flying equipment. We didn't have any winter flying equipment, and the weather can be fierce in Texas and West Texas

00:45:55.000 - 00:46:16.000

in those winter months, but we did finally get boots and fleece-lined jackets and so forth. I think we did. - Could we back up a minute and let me ask you, once you finished the interview, you went back to Fort Bragg, then how did you get from Fort Bragg out to Sweetwater?

00:46:16.000 - 00:46:29.000

- On the train. It was a long ride, too. - Did you know other girls who were in the train? - Didn't know us all. - Did Cochran tell you what to expect if you graduated?

00:46:29.000 - 00:46:46.000

- Mm-mm. - What did you, in looking back, what do you think you expected to do? - I expected to fly off into the clouds with a long white silk scarf floating out behind me, you know, and all this glamour, you know.

00:46:46.000 - 00:47:02.000

There had been a movie. I think Irene Dunn had played the lead and Spencer Tracy had been in it, and oh, it was just so glamorous, and I was just going to float away on a cloud of glamour. Wasn't that way, kiddo.

00:47:02.000 - 00:47:22.000

We worked like dogs in dirty, greasy coveralls. We had to break down an engine. We had some tough ground school classes, but oh, the flying was so wonderful. - When you contacted your husband to tell him what you were about to do, what were his reactions?

00:47:22.000 - 00:47:49.000

- Well, now, Bill was in the thick of battles, and I didn't tell him for a long, long time, and I didn't tell his--well, his parents did know it, but we didn't tell Bill because Bill was fighting his way across North Africa, and we didn't want him to be worried, and so it wasn't until he got to England, until the fighting was over in Africa before I told him.

00:47:49.000 - 00:48:10.000

- Were you able to correspond with him before you went to Sweetwater on a regular basis? - Sure. He said my grandson read some of his letters in my scrapbook and said they sure were sappy. - What did your parents think about your going off to fly?

00:48:10.000 - 00:48:36.000

- Well, you have to remember my mother was like--she was only 43 when I went in, and she was having a baby, and so she was a little bit preoccupied with delivering. She had one child in '37, and then four years later she had another child and a baby, and so Mother was pretty busy.

00:48:36.000 - 00:48:51.000

She didn't really have time to worry about me, and Mother was the kind that-- she was a marvelous mother, a wonderful mother. She thought I could do anything. She wouldn't have been surprised if I had been president of the United States.

00:48:51.000 - 00:49:09.000

She would have expected it of me. So Mother just expected me to succeed at whatever I did. She was the most optimistic--she was just a wonderful woman. - Tell me your reactions when you arrived at Sweetwater and at Avenger Field.

00:49:09.000 - 00:49:25.000

- Well, I arrived on the train, got off the train, and went over to the Sweetwater Hotel and spent that first night at the Sweetwater Hotel along with-- I think there were 95 entering 44W4. There was one girl who was supposed to be there that never did show up,

00:49:25.000 - 00:49:46.000

but if I'm not mistaken there were 95 of us, and we were all milling around, and, you know, there was a little drugstore in there, and we were drinking Cokes and still my favorite, frosted Coke. And I think I've forgotten--maybe it was Scotty McDonald or Madge,

00:49:46.000 - 00:50:09.000

I don't know who, but we decided we would see Sweetwater. It didn't take long. You know, we walked around the square and that was it. - What were your thoughts as far as other trainees who were gathered together

00:50:09.000 - 00:50:28.000

as far as their training compared to your training? - You mean prior to coming to Sweetwater? Well, I thought they all probably were much better flyers than I was. I thought probably I was the dumbest and the least experienced of all of them,

00:50:28.000 - 00:50:45.000

but it turned out that it wasn't so. Poor Bill Ward, who was in my bay, she didn't last but two weeks, and she was a darling girl. But she had learned to fly kind of from her father, I think,

00:50:45.000 - 00:51:06.000

and had never really--well, like most of us had never really done any serious flying. She had just sort of drifted around, you know, over the farm and enjoyed it. And we didn't have that kind of training. We had military training, precise training, as you know.

00:51:06.000 - 00:51:22.000

- How did it make you feel when she washed out? - Determined. They were going to have to kick my butt before I left. I was staying.

00:51:22.000 - 00:51:37.000

I was there to stay, and I dared them to cross my path. And I was so fortunate. The Lord's been so good to me. I don't know why he really shouldn't have wasted his goodness on me,

00:51:37.000 - 00:51:54.000

because I never have been anything but a wild Texas cowgirl, I guess, reprobate. But I got the nicest instructor. Nick Hill was a Christian gentleman. He was a Catholic.

00:51:54.000 - 00:52:12.000

He had a lovely wife who was there at Sweetwater with him and children, and he was just a very, very wonderful instructor. We really loved Nick. Sandifer was in his group of four and me, and we just really--

00:52:12.000 - 00:52:26.000

he really was nice to us and was very patient with us and would go over and over the instructions again and again. And some of them got some doozies. I know Alice got Cernic.

00:52:26.000 - 00:52:35.000

I don't know, but I've heard that Cernic yelled and screamed at them. Who was your instructor? Lamb. Who?

00:52:35.000 - 00:52:41.000

David Lamb. I've heard about him. He was pretty good, wasn't he? So-so?

00:52:41.000 - 00:52:58.000

I didn't really know who the instructors were for Flight 1. Flight 2, we had some that were real dood, but we had some dandies too, some really nice ones. I happened to get one of the really nice ones.

00:52:58.000 - 00:53:04.000

Tell me about ground school. What did you enjoy about ground school? Meteorology. I liked that.

00:53:04.000 - 00:53:20.000

I liked meteorology and studying the clouds and learning the different formations and the weather and what was causing the weather and how to cope with the weather and how to keep up with the wind tea, which changed every 30 minutes.

00:53:20.000 - 00:53:45.000

You'd take off with it in one direction and you'd come in to land in another direction. When you went into training, what made you think you could succeed? My mother expected me to, and so I just expected to. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't, just like it never occurred to me

00:53:45.000 - 00:54:02.000

that anything would happen to Bill when he was overseas. While you were in training, walk us through a typical day. Well, let's see. We went in November the 1st.

00:54:02.000 - 00:54:20.000

The first thing I remember are the typhoid shots. I don't know if you remember that first day and those typhoids. My wife was sore and sick. We had fever and it stretched out on our cots for the rest of the next day, I guess it was,

00:54:20.000 - 00:54:38.000

or when I remember those typhoid shots because they really got to me. What else do I remember? Well, I'd been a Girl Scout and all the Girl Scout camps, so I knew how to square corner a bed and make up a bed and how to do things

00:54:38.000 - 00:54:58.000

because I had been scouting and camping so much. So it was no problem, but we did have to help some of the other girls in our bay who didn't have any such experience with that. So I guess getting everything in those little lockers

00:54:58.000 - 00:55:14.000

and packing up a bunch of stuff and sending it home that I had thought we would need, but which we didn't. The food, I thought the food was wonderful, especially Ma Watlin's biscuits. I loved biscuits and gravy anyway.

00:55:14.000 - 00:55:31.000

We had lots of gravy, not much meat, but lots of gravy, and I loved gravy. She was a good cook. Really, I thought the food was good. Everybody else was complaining. I felt bad because I was enjoying it. Everybody else was complaining.

00:55:31.000 - 00:55:45.000

What was the biggest adjustment that you had to make? Sharing the bathroom. It seemed like you never could get in there when you needed to. I think that was a big adjustment.

00:55:45.000 - 00:56:00.000

I was used to having my own bathroom. It took me a long time before I could sleep on that cot, but after we started training and got into it, you were so tired you died when you hit the pillow.

00:56:00.000 - 00:56:20.000

But at first it was kind of hard, but it was kind of hard to get used to the other girls because I guess I had grown up with a homogeneous group around me most of the time, and we had many, many different types of girls in our outfit.

00:56:20.000 - 00:56:44.000

So you learned a lot about human nature and other people and other habits. Could you tell me some of the backgrounds that some of the other girls had that were different from yours as far as jobs? Well, I think Pat Ballew was in my bay, and she had been a secretary, I think.

00:56:44.000 - 00:57:03.000

Shirley Tannehill was like a typist clerk of some kind. I don't know what Ann Eufor did before she came into the WASP, but one thing that impressed me very much about Ann, she was a chain smoker, and I had never seen--

00:57:03.000 - 00:57:27.000

I had never been around a chain smoker, and a chain smoker lights the next cigarette off of the one that's just gone out, and she smoked a lot, and that was new to me. I didn't know you could do that.

00:57:27.000 - 00:57:45.000

Bill Moore lived there in Texas, and I think her dad had a ranch not too far away. Her whole family brought her with all of her-- the whole family came into the bay with her luggage and everything, and most of the rest of us had come on our own, you know,

00:57:45.000 - 00:58:02.000

and so we were just amazed that there was a father and a mother and a sister and all bringing her to training, and that was different that a girl so close-- and I guess she just couldn't take the rigors.

00:58:02.000 - 00:58:21.000

Of course, I'd been on my own in college. I had been away from home for a long, long time, as some of the rest of us had been. Jean Taylor washed out, and she was in medical school and going to be a doctor and chose to come into the WASP, so she discontinued her schooling to become a WASP,

00:58:21.000 - 00:58:41.000

but she--well, you know, you had to have coordination and what all you had to do to get through, and Jean washed out later on. But Bill Moore was the first one to go, and then Hallie Stiers. Hallie couldn't see, and it helps if you can see the ground when you come in,

00:58:41.000 - 00:58:56.000

and she hadn't gotten any glasses. She had some new glasses ordered, and they hadn't come yet, but she made a wonderful establishment officer for us. Do you remember your solo?

00:58:56.000 - 00:59:19.000

I don't think--yes, I remember--what I remember most about my solo is that Nick Hill was determined that none of his four girls were going to wash out. He made us fly and fly and fly and fly. Everybody else in the whole class had soloed except Nick's four,

00:59:19.000 - 00:59:40.000

and we began to think there was something wrong with us, that we better go back home. But he just wanted to be sure we could really handle that plane, and so finally Valoo said to him, "We're the cow's tail of the whole class," and so he sent us up solo and started soloing us the next day.

00:59:40.000 - 00:59:57.000

Okay. Tell me about the airplanes that you flew in primary, for example. We started out on PT-19s. I love that. Wasn't that the sweetest little low monowing? Flew just beautifully, and then they changed us to all the Stearman's,

00:59:57.000 - 01:00:17.000

and it was like driving a Mack truck. Had a narrow landing gear, and you had to know how to land in a crosswind at Sweetwater because you had a wind all the time, and if you got a cross coming across your runway when you're going this way

01:00:17.000 - 01:00:35.000

and the wind is pushing you that way, you had to know how to get into that wind to land and not ground loop. And so Frankie, I think--no, I believe Frankie nosed over. I've forgotten who was the one who ground looped.

01:00:35.000 - 01:01:00.000

I've forgotten. I better not say who they were because they would, I'm afraid, challenge me. Okay. I know that that particular class had something special happen when they finished primary. Would you tell us about that, where they went next as far as training from primary? Oh, we went straight to AT-6s. That's what you're talking about.

01:01:00.000 - 01:01:19.000

Yes, we were the first class. We were the guinea pigs. And our class, they wanted to do it with the male cadets, so they decided they'd try it out on the women because they didn't want to lose any men, and if they were going to lose all of us, the whole class, they'd lose a bunch of women instead of men.

01:01:19.000 - 01:01:41.000

So they put us straight on to AT-6s from the Stearman's and the PT-19. We thought it was wonderful. I joined it. A big shot. Tell me what was so different between the AT-6 and the PT-17s that you had been flying. Well, AT-6 was fast. It was a fast airplane.

01:01:41.000 - 01:01:59.000

You had to be right on the ball with it. The old Stearman, you couldn't make a mistake in that Stearman. It'd just fly itself, but you had to know what you were doing in the AT-6 because it was a very, very fast airplane to fly, a very sweet airplane to fly.

01:01:59.000 - 01:02:16.000

I loved the AT-6. And then from the AT-6, where did you-- Then we went back to instruments on the BT-13. You want to describe what instrument training was about?

01:02:16.000 - 01:02:29.000

Oh. The link trainer, for example, and the hood. Wasn't that something? Yeah, they put us in those little old things and put the hood down over us.

01:02:29.000 - 01:02:51.000

I'll never forget. I don't know who it was. I don't think it was Smith. I can't remember if it was Stamper. I think it was Stamper that put her in it, and she adjusted all the instruments instead of flying.

01:02:51.000 - 01:03:06.000

But I never did like instrument flying until we started actual instrument flying in the planes. The link trainer was just something that you had to learn how to do, and we learned how to do it.

01:03:06.000 - 01:03:23.000

But instrument flying itself was real fun. Staying on that beam and staying where you were supposed to be, keeping the right altitude and everything, it was a real challenge, a real challenge. Could you tell us about your cross-country flight?

01:03:23.000 - 01:03:40.000

Did anything unusual happen on cross-country? I'll say it did. Very unusual. Mary Hassen was killed coming in from a cross-country flight. There was a girl in, I think, 6th, Class 6 behind us,

01:03:40.000 - 01:03:57.000

who was taken off when Hassen was coming in. They had changed the wind sock, the wind tee, rather. I don't know if Mary didn't check it before she came in, but it was a straight-on mid-air collision.

01:03:57.000 - 01:04:10.000

Both girls were killed instantly, and it had a horrific impact on all of our class. Hallie Stiers went out to identify Mary, and she identified her by her ring,

01:04:10.000 - 01:04:26.000

a ring that her father, initial ring her father had given her. And it made us realize, I think, for the first time, that we could get killed, that this was not a game, that this was serious business.

01:04:26.000 - 01:04:41.000

But we mourned for Mary. We really did. And I kept in touch with Miss Hassen for a long time, but I haven't lately. In fact, I think Mary's mother is dead now.

01:04:41.000 - 01:04:54.000

Can you tell us about any compensation her family might have gotten? How was that treated? Oh, I don't think we got any. I don't think there was any compensation for anything like that.

01:04:54.000 - 01:05:10.000

The band were, but we didn't. We were not. We were considered civilians, and we were paid the civilian rate. We were classified, just like any civilian employee of the United States government,

01:05:10.000 - 01:05:28.000

until many, many years later that we became militarized. We were supposed to have been militarized, but there was some sort of congressional legislative hitch in getting the law through or connected with appropriations or something.

01:05:28.000 - 01:05:49.000

And we had a heck of a fight getting our militarization. Going back to your cross-country flights, when you took your long cross-country flight, where did you go? And were there any incidents that happened on that particular flight?

01:05:49.000 - 01:06:03.000

Oh, I think there were 10 or 15 of us who flew west to Santa Fe. We made a triangular course, and one of our stops was Santa Fe. We spent the night in Santa Fe, and it was the first time I had ever stayed in Santa Fe.

01:06:03.000 - 01:06:24.000

It's a very, very interesting place, and I enjoyed it very much. I enjoyed--I had never seen the Chihuahua Mountains, and they were so beautiful--orange and yellow and red and purple-- and such beautiful country.

01:06:24.000 - 01:06:49.000

There's just no experience like an open cockpit flight out west with the sun. It's a wonderful, wonderful experience. I'll always be very grateful. It certainly gave me a new appreciation of the beautiful world that God made

01:06:49.000 - 01:07:11.000

and the diversity. Tennessee, everything's green and trees, and there it's so very, very different. God paints with a master touch. During your seven months in training, what was the one thing you enjoyed the most about it?

01:07:11.000 - 01:07:32.000

Flying, flying, flying, flying. I never got tired of flying, and even when I had to do three periods of pylon eights, I thought I would never conquer pylon eights. You had so much crosswind, and you had to adjust for that wind all the way around

01:07:32.000 - 01:07:50.000

until you made your perfect eight. I hated pylon eights, and it took me three hours before I conquered them. Was there ever a time that you thought you might wash out, and if so, tell us about it. I don't think so.

01:07:50.000 - 01:08:07.000

It never occurred to me. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't finish college or anything that I started. I think I inherited that from Mother. On your check rides--

01:08:07.000 - 01:08:22.000

I'm Dutch, girl. Dutch don't ever quit. Dutch people stand with their finger in the dike until they drop dead. On your Army check rides, were there any unusual circumstances about those?

01:08:22.000 - 01:08:37.000

Yeah, I flunked the first AT-6 check ride, but fortunately I had a very, very fine check ride pilot. His name was Kramer. I didn't really like my instructor much.

01:08:37.000 - 01:09:00.000

He comes to all of Air Wasp--not all of them, but to many of Air Wasp reunions, and he was tough, and he had no use for women much, and very little use for women pilots. But anyway, Kramer gave me a second check ride, and I passed it,

01:09:00.000 - 01:09:14.000

but I didn't pass the first ride from this other whoever it was, check ride Charlie or whoever it was, washout Charlie. Tell us about graduation. It was wonderful.

01:09:14.000 - 01:09:23.000

It was just wonderful. I'm not sure--I think we may have been the first ones to get the uniforms. Do you know? I'm not sure.

01:09:23.000 - 01:09:38.000

I think we were the first ones to be issued the blue uniform, but I'd have to check that to be sure if we were or not. But anyway, we were among the first to get the blue uniforms, and we were so thrilled.

01:09:38.000 - 01:09:52.000

I was, and that Cochran, there again, she's something else. Do you know who made our hats, our berets? Knox, just the leading hat maker in all of the world, you might say. And who made our uniforms?

01:09:52.000 - 01:10:11.000

Neiman Marcus, just the most outstanding store in the South, and they were perfect, every seam, beautiful gabardine. Oh, they were knockouts. They were the wafts and the waves.

01:10:11.000 - 01:10:33.000

Nobody could touch our uniforms. So we were thrilled with graduation day when we put those uniforms on, and it was quite a day. I think--I'm not sure, but I think Arnold--I'd have to look that up.

01:10:33.000 - 01:10:54.000

It was--no, that was the night--the big graduation was March the 19th. We didn't graduate until May the 23rd, I think. And I think the only really big shot was Mrs. Patterson, the Secretary of War's wife, was there.

01:10:54.000 - 01:11:20.000

But Arnold had been there for previous graduations and Cochran, but it didn't matter to me. I'd graduated and I had my wings, and that was phenomenal, a miracle. Can you describe how you felt when you got your orders?

01:11:20.000 - 01:11:34.000

Well, I think I was a little bit disappointed at first because we all wanted to go to the Transport Command. Well, we couldn't all be assigned to the Transport Command, and I didn't know a thing about Douglas, not a thing,

01:11:34.000 - 01:11:47.000

and that's where I was assigned. And two other girls in my class, Standifer and Eufer, were also assigned there. And at first I was disappointed because I wasn't assigned to the Transport Command,

01:11:47.000 - 01:12:04.000

but I loved it after I got out there because I was assigned to operations, and we had a different flight, a different duty every day. Did you have some time off before deporting? We did.

01:12:04.000 - 01:12:17.000

Where did you go? After we graduated, we had two weeks before we were to report for active duty. And so I went to see my aunt and uncle in Dallas, and then I went briefly to Brownsville,

01:12:17.000 - 01:12:35.000

and then I went on to see my mother in St. Louis. And then when my two weeks, when that was up, I caught a flight out of the airfield there in St. Louis and flew back to Pioty, hitched a ride on a B-17 that was coming back into Pioty,

01:12:35.000 - 01:12:54.000

a training flight, and then I got from there on out to--another flight on out to Douglas, Arizona. Do you remember how your mother felt when she saw you in your blue uniform? Oh, she was so proud. They were so pleased, and of course lots of pictures, picture-taking,

01:12:54.000 - 01:13:11.000

and they were real pleased. At this point in your career, did your husband know what you were doing? Let me see. Where was Bill in 19--this was '43, wasn't it? '44.

01:13:11.000 - 01:13:30.000

'44. This was May of '44. May of '44, he's probably back in England getting ready for the Normandy invasion. I'll have to ask him where he was at that time. I don't think I was concerned. I don't think Normandy had happened yet.

01:13:30.000 - 01:13:48.000

I don't think Normandy came until June the 6th, I believe, and so I wasn't worried about him yet. When you got to Douglas, to whom did you report? Colonel Dyer--Dwyer, Dwyer was his name--

01:13:48.000 - 01:14:08.000

and reported, and I think he was dismayed to have any more WASPs on the field. He already had a number of them. I don't think he ever quite knew what to do with us, but I reported to operations to Captain Loomis, and he was great.

01:14:08.000 - 01:14:19.000

He was so nice to us. And where did you live? In the barracks. Were there other WASPs? Were there other women beside the WASPs?

01:14:19.000 - 01:14:36.000

Yes, there were nurses and civilian employees of the base, but we WASPed, sort of, roomed together. It was two bedrooms and a sort of a little living room in the barracks and a bathroom. Who did you room with?

01:14:36.000 - 01:14:52.000

Mary Birch. After she graduated and came to Douglas, Mary and I roomed together for the rest of the time that we were stationed there. Could you tell us about some of the missions that you flew at Douglas? Took three nurses.

01:14:52.000 - 01:15:13.000

They had to go to a convention or a meeting of some kind, and I flew them in a UC-78, which has three bucket seats in the back, just behind the pilot and co-pilot, and it was a little bit bumpy, and the nurses had never flown much before,

01:15:13.000 - 01:15:31.000

and they threw up all over that airplane, each other, the bucket seats. They must have had a huge meal just before they got on the plane. They really threw up, and when we got to wherever we were going, Phoenix or Tucson, I've forgotten which,

01:15:31.000 - 01:15:49.000

the linemen cleaned my plane out, washed it out. It was just beautifully clean, no odor or anything. When we got ready to return, because I waited there for them until they finished their meeting, then to take them back to home base,

01:15:49.000 - 01:16:04.000

and I didn't even have a purse with me. I had nothing to tip that great, great guy that cleaned out that airplane, and the nurses didn't offer to. I guess they were so used to cleaning up stuff like that in the hospital

01:16:04.000 - 01:16:21.000

that they didn't think you got paid for doing it, so they didn't offer, and I didn't think it was my place to tell them. They were captains, and I was just a civilian, and I have often thought if I ever had a chance to find out

01:16:21.000 - 01:16:39.000

who that lineman was that cleaned out my airplane, I was going to give him a $100 bill, but I never have found him. How were you treated by the male pilots at Douglas? Well, that just depended.

01:16:39.000 - 01:17:00.000

There was one fellow stationed there who hated--I think he hated women, but he just took his--he was on the soapbox about these damn women pilots, and he held forth most of the time slightly drunk or real drunk in the officers' club about us,

01:17:00.000 - 01:17:25.000

but most of them were absolutely wonderful to us, very, very nice, respectful and courteous, and many of the girls met the boys that they married. Mary met and married Clayton Nehmeyer there, and that happened, I think, to numbers of girls.

01:17:25.000 - 01:17:40.000

Of course, it didn't to me because I was already married. Tell me about some of the other duties that you were required to do there or asked to do. I did a lot of slow timing whenever they'd put new engines in the planes.

01:17:40.000 - 01:17:58.000

I would do a lot of slow timing, which was just drifting around and looking at the scenery and enjoying it and singing at the top of your voice, whether you could sing or not. That was fun, listening to the radio, and did a lot of slow timing.

01:17:58.000 - 01:18:19.000

I was transporting the inspector general's representative from one base to another. I had an interesting long flight into San Francisco one time. That was after B-25s came in to Douglas, and it became a B-25 school,

01:18:19.000 - 01:18:38.000

and that was into San Francisco. I was just co-pilot on that for--I think he was a colonel or a major or something, had to go to San Francisco. When we got there, of course, I hadn't even thought to take my trench coat,

01:18:38.000 - 01:18:55.000

and cold-eyed froze my you-know-what off. But anyway, we stayed--I don't know the name of the hotel, but I know we went up, and I think they said it was something called the Top of the Mark.

01:18:55.000 - 01:19:05.000

Now, do you know what the Top of the Mark means? That's a hotel, isn't it? The Mark Hotel? Well, anyway, we had dinner up there, and he invited--

01:19:05.000 - 01:19:21.000

had this friend of his, another officer with him, who had a girlfriend or some relationship, and she cried during the entire dinner, just copiously crying. I don't know if she'd had too much to drink or what,

01:19:21.000 - 01:19:37.000

but I never forgot that weird dinner with those two officers and that crying woman. And cold, oh, it was cold. But anyway, he finished his business, and we got back to Douglas.

01:19:37.000 - 01:19:55.000

I had lots of interesting flights. That was one of them. -Tell us about any others that come to mind. -Let's see, the nurses and the IGs and the flight to San Francisco,

01:19:55.000 - 01:20:16.000

and I had a lot of flights back to modification centers to take the UC-78s to have work done on them. Right offhand, I can't--I'm sure there were lots of others, but I'd have to go back to some of the letters I wrote Mother

01:20:16.000 - 01:20:40.000

to find out what I--I do remember flying into Salt Lake City one really cold night, and I was not the pilot. We were carrying 20 newly commissioned officers and pilots who were being sent overseas to Japan,

01:20:40.000 - 01:20:59.000

and we were taking them into Salt Lake City. And I remember how worried I got because the pilot kept talking about-- and I think I was in a jump seat right behind the pilot and co-pilot-- and he kept talking about his problems with the radio

01:20:59.000 - 01:21:14.000

that he couldn't get in because there was a split beam. And then he ran out of de-icer fluid, and I thought, "Well, we've had it. This is it." And so they were talking about, "Well, now, if we have to crash land,

01:21:14.000 - 01:21:27.000

you be sure and walk east." I thought, "My aching back." [laughs] Walk east in the seven-foot snow drift after a crash? They must be out of their minds.

01:21:27.000 - 01:21:38.000

But anyway, we didn't have any parachutes or anything, but I wouldn't have jumped if I'd had one. But we didn't land at Salt Lake City. We had to land at an alternate.

01:21:38.000 - 01:21:52.000

We had to go around and go to another airport. Okay. Then I think we'd better change films because I'm about to ask her something really-- she said we have about a minute left on this film,

01:21:52.000 - 01:22:00.000

and I said, "I think we'd better change films because I'm about to ask her something very profound." [laughs] Oh, gosh.

01:22:00.000 - 01:22:10.000

Well, I've got to figure out where I was. I think they've already-- Okay, tell us about-- Wait a minute.

01:22:10.000 - 01:22:32.000

I'm going to get up, get my book, and maybe this will help graduation. Yes. I was so impressed that we were having all these big dignitaries come to see us. I mean, Arnold--and we were just a bunch of kids, you know, girls at that--

01:22:32.000 - 01:22:51.000

and here this big wig of the whole Air Force comes to Sweetwater. And we were in--oh, Deaton had us clean that barracks until you could have eaten off of the floor practically. It had to be so clean, and we had to be just so-so.

01:22:51.000 - 01:23:10.000

We had to get everything lined up, our shoes and our locker and everything, just perfect. And so we had worked and worked and worked, getting everything just perfect. And after they finished Flight 1, they were ready to come down. Remember those sidewalks that came down to each bay?

01:23:10.000 - 01:23:22.000

And we were ready to--and so just as they stood there all in formation-- I should show you--shouldn't I show you that picture? She'll put it up behind it. Oh, okay.

01:23:22.000 - 01:23:33.000

Here it is right here. This is the picture. And so Young and Cochran and Arnold and Urban, and behind them-- this is what's unusual about this picture.

01:23:33.000 - 01:24:00.000

If you can see it right back in here, that's Nancy Love. Nancy Love right there and Barbara London. Explain to--they were in the formation, and that was the day, that was the time, that Cochran--that Deaton absolutely got so mad at Dora--not Dora, what's that?

01:24:00.000 - 01:24:07.000

Barbara. Barbara London. London wasn't her maiden name. -Erikson. -Erikson.

01:24:07.000 - 01:24:21.000

She said she wasn't going to wear that blue uniform. See, she was a WAC, and they wore the khaki and the pinks or the greens or whatever it was that they--and she wasn't going to wear-- she wasn't going to put on that blue uniform.

01:24:21.000 - 01:24:42.000

And so Deaton was issuing the uniforms, and they were getting ready for this big to-do. You see all the big brass is there. And Deaton said, "Well, you will wear it, or I'm going straight to Arnold and tell him exactly what you're doing."

01:24:42.000 - 01:24:58.000

And she would have done it too. I wouldn't have crossed Deaton for $1,000, would you? Do you remember why Erikson was there? Yes, she was getting a medal of some kind.

01:24:58.000 - 01:25:17.000

She was getting an award. She had flown--I can't pull that off my mouth or something like that-- and she was getting some kind of award for that. And Nancy Love was there, and Nancy was always a perfect lady.

01:25:17.000 - 01:25:29.000

Tell us who Nancy Love was. Who is Nancy Love? Nancy Love, she was the one that started the WACs. She was the head of the WACs.

01:25:29.000 - 01:25:45.000

Yeah. A lovely woman, a beautiful woman. And Barbara put the uniform on. But I'll never forget that.

01:25:45.000 - 01:26:08.000

Anyway, you see there, Youngton, Cochran, and Arnold, and General Cousins-- that's who that is--and Major Irwin, and right behind Barbara Erikson and Nancy Love, and they're getting ready to come into my bay, into Flight 2. And so I had a little brownie camera swung around my neck,

01:26:08.000 - 01:26:22.000

and I reached it up, stepped outside the screen door, and took this picture right here. And Cochran gave a look that I don't know why I didn't drop dead on the spot because that look should have killed me right then and there.

01:26:22.000 - 01:26:37.000

But when she walked through the door, she cut her eye at me. And, of course, by that time I was back at the foot of my cot and standing at attention for the inspector, and Arnold looked at me and winked.

01:26:37.000 - 01:26:50.000

[laughs] He knew I was in for it, and she had me confined to the post for two weeks, I think, or something like that. Oh, my goodness.

01:26:50.000 - 01:27:04.000

Them was the good old days, kiddo. That's Gene Taylor who washed out. The snow, remember the snow? Oh, it was so cold, so cold out there.

01:27:04.000 - 01:27:26.000

Of course, entering in November as we did, we got December and January weather. That's Mo Miller and Smitty. There we are waiting to go on a cross country. One of the girls was driving that Jeep.

01:27:26.000 - 01:27:42.000

It's just--and this is our graduation here. These women came from Dallas. When you and I graduated, this was our formation. We never did take marching very seriously, did we?

01:27:42.000 - 01:27:49.000

But we were good at it. Yes, we were. We could do to the winds-- wasn't it to the winds--

01:27:49.000 - 01:28:07.000

yeah, to the four winds march, to the four winds march. And we did. We were pretty good at it. And so, Class 44-W4 gets their wings here today. Matilda Euphor is highest ranking WASP class officer.

01:28:07.000 - 01:28:16.000

And that's our diploma and our orders. Where were you ordered to? Greenville, Mississippi. Greenville, Mississippi.

01:28:16.000 - 01:28:36.000

Oh, here it is. We were ungraded, position trainee, $1,800 per annum was what we were paid. Ungraded Army Air Force. And we were promoted to $3,000 per year.

01:28:36.000 - 01:28:51.000

We were big time, lived high on the hog on that. And what did you do with all that money? What did you have to pay for? I had to pay for a lot of stuff.

01:28:51.000 - 01:29:04.000

Didn't we have to pay for all of our stuff? So we needed all of that money to pay for. Well, you can tell how proud I was that day. I was beaming from ear to ear.

01:29:04.000 - 01:29:18.000

I made it! I made it! Thank you, Lord! Thank you, Lord! And tell me about somebody special that came over and pinned on your wings. Oh, my uncle from Waco, Texas, my father's brother, came.

01:29:18.000 - 01:29:33.000

And my Aunt Marie, my mother's sister, bless her heart. She was so impressed with those planes. And here she is with the other women from Dallas who came. Shirley Tannehill's mother and different ones.

01:29:33.000 - 01:29:56.000

And this was General McConnell's secretary, who I knew her at Southern Pines. And she came out for my graduation along with Madge, another one. And this is my uncle from San Antonio, my stepfather's brother. And he came for my graduation.

01:29:56.000 - 01:30:08.000

And pinned my wings on because, of course, Bill was overseas and everybody else was in war service. My dad couldn't come. And here I was stationed at Douglas, Arizona.

01:30:08.000 - 01:30:19.000

This is Captain Loomis. He was in charge of operations. And here are the ones that were in operations-- Bonnie, Edmonds, Mary Birch, Ann Ufer, and Standifer.

01:30:19.000 - 01:30:31.000

And Loretta Drewett. That was across country, and that's what it looked like. That was the base operations at Douglas right there. And there we are.

01:30:31.000 - 01:30:41.000

Did I ask you, did your stepfather and your mother come for your graduation? Who? Your stepfather and your mother. No, no. Mother was tending to babies.

01:30:41.000 - 01:30:55.000

Oh, that's right. You told me. Okay. And he was in war work. They had called him back to run some sort of engine-producing plant in St. Louis that was owned and operated by Ann Iser Bush,

01:30:55.000 - 01:31:15.000

who he had worked for them when he ran the Adolphus Hotel. And so he was called back from Brownsville to St. Louis during the war for emergency purposes. And this is the B-25, which they made Douglas a B-25.

01:31:15.000 - 01:31:29.000

This is the pilot's amplified checklist for the B-25. Can you imagine trying to learn all that? I don't think I did. I think I just got in.

01:31:29.000 - 01:31:45.000

Okay. While you were at Douglas, Doris, do you remember when you first heard that the WASPs were going to be deactivated, and how did that make you feel? I was shocked because we were really needed and flying a great deal

01:31:45.000 - 01:32:04.000

and doing a tremendous service out there. Now, that doesn't mean everybody there was. There are always gold bricks in every outfit, but we were really busy, and so we were really shocked,

01:32:04.000 - 01:32:24.000

and so was Captain Loomis, and we all were. We were all very shocked and disappointed. What do you think the WASPs have accomplished during that two-year period? I think we released men pilots to go overseas

01:32:24.000 - 01:32:47.000

who swung the difference in air power in Europe because the British became superior, but at first the Germans were very superior by our service. I think the fact that if he had needed more women,

01:32:47.000 - 01:33:02.000

we were experimental partly, he knew he could draw on the women power. Arnold knew he could draw on the--he didn't know what women could do. Although he had flown in 1911,

01:33:02.000 - 01:33:24.000

there was no difference between men and women as far as flying ability back then because nobody knew how to fly. He knew he had a vast source of possible pilots if he had to have it. The attrition rate in Europe was lower than he expected, which was wonderful.

01:33:24.000 - 01:33:45.000

So pilots who were rotated back to the United States after 25 missions, of course, then we were discharged because there were so many of them coming back, and we were no longer so vitally needed as we were so desperately needed at the beginning of the war.

01:33:45.000 - 01:34:11.000

-Doris, there were WAFs and there were WASPs. Do you have any feeling or did you get any kind of feeling of how the WAFs felt about the WASPs becoming pilots? -Some of them were great gals, and some of them were turds.

01:34:11.000 - 01:34:34.000

Some of them thought that they were so good that nobody could touch them, and who in the--did we think we were coming along doing the same thing that they were doing, which was proving that they weren't so special after all? Not all of them felt that way, but enough of them did

01:34:34.000 - 01:35:03.000

that it gave the whole outfit a bad reputation, which really wasn't deserved because there were really some very, very nice WAFs. -When you were deactivated, where did you go? -I went to Dallas to visit my aunt, and then I went to St. Louis to see Mother.

01:35:03.000 - 01:35:23.000

Then I had to buy some clothes, and then I went to New York with Mary Birch, and I lived together in New York, and I was waiting for the war by 1945. We were deactivated December the 20th of '44. The end is in sight, and I knew Bill would be coming home

01:35:23.000 - 01:35:47.000

because he had such a marvelous combat record of so many-- He could have been rotated before, but he chose because they needed him so desperately, and he was one of the very few experienced combat officers. He stayed to get through Normandy and all the way up to Berlin to lead his division.

01:35:47.000 - 01:36:07.000

-When you got to New York, what did you do? Did you get an apartment? -Yes. Mary and I got a third-floor walk-up apartment. If we hadn't had good legs, we got them because we had to walk up and down three flights to get there, a little tiny, tacky--

01:36:07.000 - 01:36:28.000

But there was no housing available because of the war, and so we were lucky to get that. And so I waited, and then Mary-- She had married to Clayton, and I think she went on because Clayton had gotten home,

01:36:28.000 - 01:36:46.000

and so Mary went with-- And I waited until Bill got home. I think it was May of '45 before Bill got back home. -So what did you do for that five months as you waited? -Shopped. [laughs]

01:36:46.000 - 01:37:04.000

I hadn't had civilian clothes in so long. I didn't know that you could just go into a store and buy a suit or a dress. I had the best time. I had this wonderful salesperson at Bergdorf Goodman, and I just bought clothes up one aisle and down the other,

01:37:04.000 - 01:37:20.000

and starting from underwear out. I love my-- Oh, I bought this good-looking black dress. You remember we used to have wrap dresses. I've forgotten what they called them, and it was so good-looking.

01:37:20.000 - 01:37:48.000

And sometimes we wore hats, and I got this real spiffy, flowery hat that Lily Dachet made. And we went to the Hotel Pierre for dinner after Bill got home, and I had these platform sandals, and the emcee was sort of a comedian that incorporated the audience into his act.

01:37:48.000 - 01:38:10.000

And I was very-- He got me good and put the spotlight on me for my Lily Dachet hat. I've forgotten how to put it. Something that I was a veritable pot of flowers or something some way, and we all got a big laugh out of that, so it was a lovely evening.

01:38:10.000 - 01:38:32.000

And after Bill got home and you left New York, where did you go? We came back to Union City to the farm. Was Bill discharged in New York, or what happened? We came back to Union City, and some months later he had to go over to some center in Arkansas,

01:38:32.000 - 01:38:53.000

and then he had to go back to get his discharge. And when he went back to get his discharge, you stayed in Union City? Mm-hmm. We stayed with his parents in their home right over there until-- And then when he got through with all that, we moved to town

01:38:53.000 - 01:39:13.000

and lived in a little apartment in his aunt's house, which had been his home-- which had not been his home, but had been his mother's home. And then we got our own place. His dad owned some little rental houses, and we moved into one of them.

01:39:13.000 - 01:39:28.000

Okay. And while you were-- After you came back to Union City, tell us what you did. Did you have children? What happened? Well, we didn't have children until later.

01:39:28.000 - 01:39:58.000

I worked--oh, I helped just down at the insurance office, which his brother came home and went into business with his dad. And Bill started farming and just commenced a homemaker's life, kind of, and got involved with civic organizations, the Jaycees.

01:39:58.000 - 01:40:16.000

I was a Jaycee, Bill was a Jaycee, and just got involved in the church and different activities and began to learn to live a small-town life, which was very difficult for me after being in the WASP and the war.

01:40:16.000 - 01:40:40.000

And things seemed terribly dull because I learned to play bridge, and I'd go to bridge club and everybody would talk about diapers and baby formula, and I didn't have any children, and I didn't care what they fed their baby. But I learned to adjust to small-town life, but it was very difficult.

01:40:40.000 - 01:40:59.000

It was very difficult adjusting after the war. And I think that it wasn't just that it was difficult for us, I think it was difficult for many men coming back from the war too. Of course, they had careers that they had to pursue immediately to make a living,

01:40:59.000 - 01:41:13.000

and I think the ones of us who were homemakers had a more difficult time. Right. When was the next time that you got involved with anything concerning the WASP, after deactivation?

01:41:13.000 - 01:41:32.000

Well, I got a letter from--I have forgotten who-- and I should have kept the letter and I should have some memory. They had a reunion of WASP at Erie, Pennsylvania, and I went. Bill was going to something, I don't know what.

01:41:32.000 - 01:41:51.000

He doesn't go to his reunions much. And that was the first one the WASPs ever had. And Mr. Piper furnished the WASPs 300 planes which had to be delivered, and he was going to let us deliver those planes,

01:41:51.000 - 01:42:07.000

and mine was to be delivered to Mayfield, Kentucky, which was not too far from Union City. So at the end of our convention, we all went out and took off in our little Piper cubs and flew away into the--and I flew into the sunset

01:42:07.000 - 01:42:26.000

because when I got to Mayfield, the airport had been torn up and planted in corn and I didn't have any place to land. And it got darker and darker and I got lower and lower on gas, and finally I put it down in a brick yard and got in okay,

01:42:26.000 - 01:42:44.000

and then I had to use my brakes and I just nosed up but very gently. And so I got out and pushed the plane back down again and got my suitcase out and walked over to--I could see the lights across the highway, and it was a dew drop in.

01:42:44.000 - 01:43:04.000

It was a tavern, liquor and a bar like that. And so I called Bill from the bar, and he was at a party, and he said, "Well, I'll be there in two or three hours." Meanwhile, the man who ran--who was in charge of aviation

01:43:04.000 - 01:43:19.000

and had run the airport there insisted on taking me to the hospital for a checkup. He said, "Well, you've got to be in shock." I said, "Okay." So they took me to the hospital, and Bill came to the hospital to get me.

01:43:19.000 - 01:43:34.000

I was perfectly all right. But that was the Piper cub. -Did you do anything to the lights of the town? -Yes, I put them all in total darkness.

01:43:34.000 - 01:43:51.000

When I came in for that landing in the brickyard, I cut the big TVA line with my undercarriage and snapped it right in two. I don't know why it didn't get in my carburetor and tear me all up and crash.

01:43:51.000 - 01:44:05.000

I do know, too, the Lord--it wasn't my time. It wasn't time yet. And that was the funniest thing. [laughs]

01:44:05.000 - 01:44:17.000

Hospitals in darkness. They had to use their cars, you know, the car lights, to see how to get around. I didn't say a word. I just kept my mouth shut.

01:44:17.000 - 01:44:30.000

Oh, my goodness, what about that? How'd that happen? -Did you ever get invited back to that town? -I played tennis there every week with the nicest bunch of women.

01:44:30.000 - 01:44:48.000

They're just a delightful bunch, but they don't know about that. However, they did ask me to come to speak to the First Baptist Church group of some kind on Sunday night and talk about the boss. Do you think I should tell them that story?

01:44:48.000 - 01:45:02.000

[laughs] -That's between you and the Lord. [laughs] -There's the first thing I bought when I got my money to buy a civilian suit.

01:45:02.000 - 01:45:17.000

That was the prettiest beige. Remember shoes? When we wore like that, they were so pretty. -After you went to Erie, then what is the next connection that you had with the WASP?

01:45:17.000 - 01:45:34.000

-We had a big reunion in Dallas. We had one in Indio at Cochran's. -Tell me about that one. -It was great, and she was a wonderful woman.

01:45:34.000 - 01:45:47.000

Have I already told you about Cochran? I met Cochran in Washington. She had an office in the Pentagon. This was before she moved to Fort Worth.

01:45:47.000 - 01:46:08.000

You had to go for an interview with Sheehy and Cochran. I went for my interview, and I went in and was waiting to see her. Finally, Sheehy was getting around to me when Cochran came in the door. -Yes, you did tell us about going to lunch with her.

01:46:08.000 - 01:46:29.000

-I already told you about that then. -Then in Indio, how did she participate in that reunion? -Gosh, I'll have to think about that. She closed the bar down.

01:46:29.000 - 01:47:00.000

I think I remember Deaton telling me she closed the bar at 10 or whatever time, but since I didn't drink anyway, it didn't make any difference to me. But Deaton and a bunch of them went out in the yard and got under the bushes and kept drinking. -Then from that time, I know eventually you became very involved with the WASP organization.

01:47:00.000 - 01:47:23.000

Tell us about that. -I believe it was 1988 that I was elected president of the WASP. I think it was 1985. I served on the State Board of Education.

01:47:23.000 - 01:47:46.000

I had been teaching for about 20 years at the University of Tennessee at Martin. Governor Dunn was elected governor of Tennessee, and he appointed me to the State Board of Education. It was a very challenging job and one which I enjoyed enormously.

01:47:46.000 - 01:48:03.000

After I served on the State Board, then I retired from the university and started playing tennis. -Tell me about teaching at the university. What did you teach? -I taught history.

01:48:03.000 - 01:48:19.000

I taught Western civilization. I just loved it. I have a letter. I really ought to get that letter for you to read because it sounds terrible to say it about myself.

01:48:19.000 - 01:48:34.000

But she said in this letter-- Mickey McBride was her name who wrote me this letter. I'll get it for you and use it if you want to use it. Said that I was the most interesting teacher in the history department,

01:48:34.000 - 01:48:49.000

especially in Western Civ, because most of them would stand up and talk about why Napoleon went across the thing. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I used audiovisuals.

01:48:49.000 - 01:49:01.000

I told them about the WASP and I told them what a sexy creature Cleopatra was and how many men she seduced and yakety, yakety. I love history.

01:49:01.000 - 01:49:12.000

It's so interesting. And why the historians want to dull it up, I do not know. If they'd just let the humanness of the people into it.

01:49:12.000 - 01:49:25.000

So I taught a sort of--I guess you would call it a cultural history, a social and cultural history, which was really just beginning to come into its own. And I had a ball.

01:49:25.000 - 01:49:45.000

And I still get wonderful letters from students I hadn't been. Of course, I had taught for five years in high school before I was appointed assistant professor and then associate professor at UT. - Since the WASP were not given veteran status when they were disbanded,

01:49:45.000 - 01:50:08.000

tell me what part you played in that. - I served on the committee, the militarization committee, along with Bea Haydoo and Margaret Boylan and Quia Wright and Bird Granger and Bruce Arnold and Barry Goldwater was our ramrod,

01:50:08.000 - 01:50:25.000

and made several trips to Washington. And I was in charge of documentation, and so I had to get documentation and proof that we really were military and that we had been promised military status.

01:50:25.000 - 01:50:39.000

And I did that. I researched it and came up with the papers and letters and documentation to prove it to Congress and presented it. - And did you actually go before Congress?

01:50:39.000 - 01:50:54.000

- Not the whole Congress, the committee, the congressional committee that was holding the hearings. And oddly enough, the biggest opponents were the congressmen from Arkansas and Mississippi.

01:50:54.000 - 01:51:11.000

But we finally got it through their thick heads. - Who do you feel was ultimately responsible that was kind of the deciding factor for them to-- - Barry Goldwater.

01:51:11.000 - 01:51:32.000

He is the one who was influential. And Bruce Arnold, he had been a lobbyist, and he really knew how to get around in Washington and the government. And he guided us all the way through.

01:51:32.000 - 01:51:47.000

- Could I ask you, Doris, to you, why was it important for the WASP to be given veteran status? - There were a lot of women coming after us, and they deserve a fair shake, and we didn't get it.

01:51:47.000 - 01:52:04.000

But we didn't care. We were so happy just to be part of the war and the military and to be flying. We didn't ask for any more than that. And it was a different day, a different atmosphere, a different everything.

01:52:04.000 - 01:52:23.000

Now women--but we proved what women could do. They thought that probably in an emergency, crisis in an airplane, women would just get hysterical and go all the places. The WASP proved that we didn't--that if anything,

01:52:23.000 - 01:52:40.000

we were better equipped emotionally to handle it than men were. Especially, remember a girl on a night flight-- I've forgotten her name, but her engine quit on takeoff during a night flight. And she knew just exactly her training.

01:52:40.000 - 01:52:51.000

"Come right straight on in. Don't try to turn. Don't try to go back." So she did. And she brought that thing down and pancaked it in

01:52:51.000 - 01:53:05.000

and landed about 15 feet from the biggest canyon, just a huge that would have--if she had gone 10, 15 feet further, she would have killed her and wrecked the plane and everything else. She kept her cool.

01:53:05.000 - 01:53:28.000

And I think that and many, many, many incidents like that proved that women could really do--and we earned the respect. We earned the respect that we are now finally receiving. Why do you think that the Congress did not militarize us as it was promised?

01:53:28.000 - 01:53:38.000

Men are like that. That's just the way they are. They want to be macho. I think a lot of that has passed.

01:53:38.000 - 01:53:54.000

We're beyond that now. It's a new day. Women are living in a new age, and I am so thankful. I am so thankful, and I'm so thankful that we could help pave the way for Connie and all the girls that are flying now.

01:53:54.000 - 01:54:12.000

Were you able to speak before the Congressional Committee? Yes, I did. I did. Where were you when you found out that they had actually passed legislation which would give the WASPs veteran status?

01:54:12.000 - 01:54:32.000

And how did you feel? Elated, delighted, relieved, happy, ecstatic. You know, you go around with this feeling of an injustice having been done, and you sort of suppress it and don't think about it,

01:54:32.000 - 01:54:55.000

and then it's corrected, and it's just like a new day, a new freedom. I was just overjoyed. And for the WASPs, as far as financial benefit, what benefit? We didn't receive--everyone thinks we're doing it for money.

01:54:55.000 - 01:55:08.000

We didn't get a dime. You could get some educational benefits if you wanted to go back to school, but I don't think many of us did. We were too old by then.

01:55:08.000 - 01:55:23.000

What have you been doing with your life since then? What do you do for activities now? Try to keep from eating. Tell me about your sports activities.

01:55:23.000 - 01:55:35.000

Oh, I love to play tennis. I started playing tennis in 1965. I don't know why. I don't know what got me into it, except I was friends with a girl named Teresa Barnett,

01:55:35.000 - 01:55:48.000

and she played all the time, was a real good player. She said, "Oh, you ought to come on out and get involved in it." And so they had a little group that played on Tuesday mornings. I got me a $35 racket at Walmart

01:55:48.000 - 01:56:07.000

and went up to the tennis court one Tuesday morning. And I went over to UTM. Retired teachers could take courses for free if they wanted to. And so I took tennis and came back and started playing with them.

01:56:07.000 - 01:56:21.000

And it's just a delightful game. It's a wonderful, wonderful exercise. And I'm not going to do push-ups and aerobics. That's boring, but tennis is very exciting, and I love it.

01:56:21.000 - 01:56:38.000

Would you like to tell us about your children? Well, they're wonderful. I have a daughter and a son, and I have three grandchildren. And they're just the joy of my life and Bill's life too.

01:56:38.000 - 01:56:58.000

They live here on the farm, and their grandson is going to be a farmer and take over--he's already taken over the farming. And I have a beautiful granddaughter who is now a registered nurse and just a wonderful person, and she is married now.

01:56:58.000 - 01:57:13.000

She doesn't have any children--well, she hasn't been married very long. But they live here in Union City, and she is working as a nurse in Union City. And then I have a granddaughter, Courtney. That's Natalie, and then my other granddaughter.

01:57:13.000 - 01:57:36.000

Both granddaughters are children of my son. My son is the child of my daughter, and my other granddaughter is Courtney. She has just graduated from high school and is going to enter college this fall and will pursue that until she becomes--I've forgotten just exactly--

01:57:36.000 - 01:57:58.000

some sort of technical thing that she wants to be. Earth scientist? No, it's in the medical field, something to do with records and keeping follow-up things on patients.

01:57:58.000 - 01:58:12.000

I'm not just sure--just some sort of medical technologist, but it's an administrative job. I know that someone in your family is into the political life. You want to tell us about him?

01:58:12.000 - 01:58:31.000

Oh, that's Bill's nephew. His brother's oldest child is John Tanner, and John is a congressman in Washington, and he's going to speak at the Democratic National Convention tonight, I think. At any rate, we're going to watch and hope that we will see John

01:58:31.000 - 01:58:55.000

because he's sort of a leader of the Blue Dogs in Congress, which is the conservative element of Congress, not the far-left wing. He's just a fine young man, and we're very, very proud of John. How are you involved with your church?

01:58:55.000 - 01:59:12.000

We're very active in the Presbyterian Church. We go to Diasburg to the Presbyterian Church of America. Bill has been an elder for many, many years. He has recently chosen not to be re-elected because he's so deaf.

01:59:12.000 - 01:59:41.000

He goes to the meetings and he can't hear the discussion or can't hear the speaker, and even though he uses hearing aids, when he was in North Africa, he had malaria, a bad case of malaria, and they fed him quinine and Atterburn, and it destroyed his hearing. So he's quite deaf, and he can't participate in things anymore like he used to,

01:59:41.000 - 02:00:04.000

and it embarrasses him not to be able to answer if they ask him a question. And so we love our church, and we love the Lord. I wanted to ask you, your life seems like just such a fairy tale, but I know in each of our lives there have been times that have been hard.

02:00:04.000 - 02:00:31.000

I want to know how you got through those times. I think more than anything, the Lord has pulled me through. I think the past couple of years have been especially hard for me, and I lost my mother, who was my dearest friend, and then the next--

02:00:31.000 - 02:00:51.000

in fact, I was still in Mother's house. I think it was the day of the funeral or the day after the funeral. All my sisters and I were still there at home, and after we buried Mother, when I called the doctor, he had done a biopsy and told me that I had a malignancy in my left lung.

02:00:51.000 - 02:01:14.000

And so I had to go immediately over to Jackson for further testing and so forth, and then I went to M.D. Anderson in Houston, and they removed my entire left lung. And of course I went into a deep depression, because I think cancer always kills you. If you get cancer, that's a death sentence within just--

02:01:14.000 - 02:01:32.000

and I feel that way largely because the woman who sat on the pew next to me, Barbara Mosley, had this experience, and they told her, "Oh, we got it all. You're all clear," and she died a year later with cancer. And then my sorority little sister, who was also in the same church with me,

02:01:32.000 - 02:01:52.000

Edna Brayton in Dyesburg, had the same experience. And so it makes you doubtful of your doctors and if what they tell you is really going to be true or not. And so I live with the dread of the recurrence of cancer. I have good days when I don't think about it,

02:01:52.000 - 02:02:15.000

and then I have days when I think, "Well, this is the end. I'm not going to be here but very much longer." And sometimes thinking about death can make you depressed. I know who's on the other side of the door of death,

02:02:15.000 - 02:02:39.000

and I rejoice knowing that I will see Jesus and know him in a more personal way. But I love him, and it's my hope of--he's my hope of eternal life. Wonderful. One more short part of the tape.

02:02:39.000 - 02:02:47.000

Honey, you can't go much past my death. Okay. Rolling? Yeah.

02:02:47.000 - 02:03:03.000

Okay. Doris, as you look back over your life, you have had so many wonderful experiences. Tell me what is the one thing--you've done so much-- what is the one thing that you are most proud of?

02:03:03.000 - 02:03:23.000

I'm stuck out of marriage for 58 years, and I think that's something because everybody is going, "Oh, we've been married five years." And I want to say, "Holy Toledo, you know, you ain't even started yet."

02:03:23.000 - 02:03:49.000

And I think--I hope that--and I think I am to my daughter and my son. My daughter's been married--she's 49. She's been married 25 years now, and my son has been married that long or about that long. I'd have to go look up my dates to be just exactly sure.

02:03:49.000 - 02:04:12.000

Well, I know he's been married because Natalie is--anyway, 20. So I'm very proud of that. In a day when our society accepts promiscuous premarital sex and multiple marriages, which is just the same--

02:04:12.000 - 02:04:41.000

I don't see any difference in getting a piece of paper that says it's okay or just messing around. But I'm very proud, very proud of my children and very proud of my grandchildren. They're wonderful Christians and active in their churches, and I'll knock on wood, they may rob the bank tonight.

02:04:41.000 - 02:05:01.000

That's great. What do you think the legacy of the WASPs will be? They can look at us and they can hear the words coming from us, "Go for it!" Because that's what we did. We went for it, and we proved it.

02:05:01.000 - 02:05:22.000

And because we proved it, they'll know that they can too. And any woman can do anything she sets out her mind--sets her mind out to do if she has the talent and the desire to do it. What do you think your legacy will be?

02:05:22.000 - 02:05:44.000

This house. Lord, I've worked on this house. So somebody's got to come along and inherit this house and take care of it and this farm, this yard, and all this. And my personal legacy I hope will be for them and everyone that I have come in contact with

02:05:44.000 - 02:06:15.000

to know that love is the most important commodity in the world. Love for each other, love for the Lord, living for Him as much as possible. And I hope they'll look back and say, "Well, she was a good old girl." If you could say anything to your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren,

02:06:15.000 - 02:06:34.000

or children that you have never seen or will never see who will be watching you 25 or 50 years from now, what would you like to say to them that might encourage them, give them the courage to excel in something that they never dreamed possible

02:06:34.000 - 02:06:52.000

before they listened to you? What would I say to them? Your grandchildren. I would say to my grandchildren, "You've got my genes, so do whatever you want to do.

02:06:52.000 - 02:07:05.000

You can do it regardless. Don't let anybody tell you you can't. Believe in yourself. Believe in others, and you can do it, and believe in the Lord."

02:07:05.000 - 02:07:18.000

To those children that I don't know, that I have never met, I would say the same thing to them. Believe in yourself. Trust yourself.

02:07:18.000 - 02:07:34.000

Trust your instincts. Go to church. Learn to follow the precepts and the concepts which the church teaches and which Christ taught us, and practice them.

02:07:34.000 - 02:07:51.000

I think you'll have a wonderful life, and the one thing I hope you will have will be a wonderful, joyful life. There will be ups and downs, and there will be bad spots, and there will be crises, but if you hang on to Jesus Christ,

02:07:51.000 - 02:08:02.000

you'll make it through. Amen. Amen. Can I ask you how important is it that kids know the history of the Wasp

02:08:02.000 - 02:08:17.000

in 100 years? Is it important? Well, I don't think it's life-shattering. I mean, you know, they can get by without knowing that there ever existed any--

02:08:17.000 - 02:08:32.000

but it's like any history. If you don't know your past, you're going to make the same mistakes over and over and over. They won't make the mistake of thinking that women can't fly an airplane

02:08:32.000 - 02:08:50.000

or can't do something. I will always treasure--I went to the Air Force Academy as a representative of the Wasp to present our scholarship award to the cadet, the woman cadet graduating out there,

02:08:50.000 - 02:09:10.000

and my escort for my tour of duty or whatever you call it while I was there in Colorado Springs was Eileen Collins. I'm so proud--and Eileen was just--this was right before she got married, and she was just a wonderful escort, and I enjoyed her so much.

02:09:10.000 - 02:09:24.000

She's such a wonderful person, and I want everybody to look at our Eileen and look at the Wasp and know that they can do it too, whatever they want to do. I don't care what it is.

02:09:24.000 - 02:09:44.000

If they want to be a secretary, go for it. No matter what they want to be, they can do it from the highest to the lowest rung. Is there anything that we have left out that you would like to talk about

02:09:44.000 - 02:10:02.000

that I've overlooked that you would like to say? Life is wonderful. You're making it more wonderful. Let me ask Doris because Doris knows about--

02:10:02.000 - 02:10:16.000

A history project. Well, I think what I-- I'll tell you, if they don't know history, if they don't place any importance on history, we're in trouble

02:10:16.000 - 02:10:31.000

because history is so important, not just the history of women, history of our country. Right, and the history of the Wasp is a part of that history. Right, which has been ignored.

02:10:31.000 - 02:10:44.000

So that's the way I feel, but I'm a little prejudiced. I can't imagine why. Oh, you've been great. Thank you so much.

02:10:44.000 - 02:10:52.000

Children are going to enjoy this. I enjoyed it. A hundred, 50, a hundred years from now, I hope so. I hope so.

02:10:52.000 - 02:11:05.000

Now you want to sing? Yeah, what would you like? Anything you used to sing in the cockpit. Oh, what did we sing, Dana?

02:11:05.000 - 02:11:17.000

I don't think she ever sang in the cockpit. Did you ever sing in the cockpit? I did. Because my bay mates wouldn't let me sing in the bay.

02:11:17.000 - 02:11:26.000

I did sing, but that's off, right? Okay, yeah, it's off now. Who did you model for? Neiman's.

02:11:26.000 - 02:11:41.000

You were a model for Neiman Marcus? See, she didn't tell us. And that was in the Dallas Times Herald. That was in the Dallas Morning News.

02:11:41.000 - 02:11:56.000

That was when my uncle was killed in a plane crash. He did a slow roll on takeoff. Oh, really? Some guy the other day was telling me that somebody he knew came across the field in a B-26,

02:11:56.000 - 02:12:08.000

cut one engine, and did a slow roll. And I said, "Sure he did." I don't believe it. Oh, I petted up the girls' caps for a while.

02:12:08.000 - 02:12:15.000

Right. Until they got started. Didn't talk about that either? No.

02:12:15.000 - 02:12:39.000

Just need a week to talk to Doris. It was in St. Louis when we went to see Mother and Daddy. That was his aunt and uncle had us for a dinner in Memphis. Oh, I was so proud of that suit.

02:12:39.000 - 02:12:52.000

First thing I had after. Oh, that's a cute picture. After Victory sang. Well, I could have sworn that I had that.

02:12:52.000 - 02:13:06.000

She's got headlines in the newspaper, "War Ends, Unconditional Surrender." I've got some of those too. I have Mother saved all of the war newspapers. I've got a stack like that in there.

02:13:06.000 - 02:13:17.000

Oh, wow. She was a lady before her time. Mm-hmm. Who was?

02:13:17.000 - 02:13:40.000

Her mom. Oh, yeah. I bet she would have been a wasp too if she had been born a different time. Oh, that was just a--

02:13:40.000 - 02:13:47.000

Is that somebody you knew? I guess. She didn't sign it. She just typed it on there.

02:13:47.000 - 02:14:10.000

Some article. Well, I guess I don't, but I thought I had that Easter program of ours. I guess I don't have it. How many out of your bay are still left?

02:14:10.000 - 02:14:15.000

Just you? No, Newford. You and Newford. Me and Newford.

02:14:15.000 - 02:14:37.000

Newford's gone, Pat Ballew's gone, Tana Hill's gone, Taylor's gone, Ward. I don't know about Ward. They're all gone but me and Newford. Yeah, I still have Dorothy Allen and Jane Basler are still alive.

02:14:37.000 - 02:14:47.000

Those are letters of-- What am I looking for? Do you have any idea? No. We're looking for the Sunrise Service.

02:14:47.000 - 02:14:57.000

Do you have it? Uh-huh. I might have sent you a copy for the book. I could have sworn I did.

02:14:57.000 - 02:15:28.000

Program for graduation. Sunrise Service, after graduation. Oh, the stories you're taking that picture, that's funny. I'm just glad they didn't wash you out.

02:15:28.000 - 02:15:47.000

Was there some kind of rule against photography on the bays? Well, you were just--there were rules about everything, so I'm sure there was. It was supposed to all be confidential because they thought we were all going to crack up in two weeks. I cut my long hair.

02:15:47.000 - 02:15:59.000

Oh, my goodness. While you were in training? Clear down to my shoulders. Oh, I don't.

02:15:59.000 - 02:16:06.000

I could have sworn I had it. I have seen it recently. Did you send it to me? I don't know.

02:16:06.000 - 02:16:31.000

I said I probably did. I'm sure I must have when I sent you-- It could be loose in there because-- --since the BT-15, the cockpit stuff.

02:16:31.000 - 02:16:46.000

Well, that's cute. Nance, you don't want to-- Well, pack up and we'll go eat. Oh, listen, we can get something to eat.

02:16:46.000 - 02:18:19.480

Oh, Bill's planning to take us. Yeah. Left something time, went to 4,300 to do stuff. I'd have gone to 10, gotten used to them.

02:18:19.480 - 02:18:34.480

We didn't spend cubs. >> Right, no, that was you. >> Something too low on recovery, throttle back too much in recovery, bank too steep, spins held rather too long,

02:18:34.480 - 02:18:49.480

pop stick fast enough but did not get it all the way forward. I was so scared, I don't know what I was doing. >> But yet it gave you an S. >> Yes, spent late on using rudder to inner spin,

02:18:49.480 - 02:19:02.980

lead off a little to the right side you want to spin as it stalls, S turn, altitude varied too much, slow to correct for drift, pattern too big, coming into the field. [LAUGH]

02:19:02.980 - 02:19:13.980

I'm really big. Base leg out too far, had 1,800 RPMs on base leg, glide was fast. I wanted to get down. >> Wow.

02:19:13.980 - 02:19:25.480

>> Geez. >> Coming on- >> Did you do anything right? >> No, glide was too fast, did not close throttle at 45 degree angle to landing.

02:19:25.480 - 02:19:31.480

I don't know, it gave me an S. >> Right, must have done something right. >> Yeah. >> Wow.

02:19:31.480 - 02:19:37.480

>> That's my instrument. >> Yeah, I remember Kramer, I had Kramer on check rides. >> You did, he was nice. >> He was nice, yeah.

02:19:37.480 - 02:19:46.480

>> He was nice. >> We had one army check pilot that- >> Why weren't we scared? >> I was like you, I knew I could do it.

02:19:46.480 - 02:19:57.480

>> I just thought, I mean it didn't occur to me I couldn't. >> Right, but anyway I took that check ride and passed fine. >> Well here's my- >> But evidently he was-

02:19:57.480 - 02:20:05.980

>> That was my knee pad. >> Oh wow, I didn't- >> Took off cross T. [ Laughter ]

02:20:05.980 - 02:20:13.980

>> Oh this is- >> I'm sure glad you made it Doris. [ Laughter ] >> I just blew my way through.

02:20:13.980 - 02:20:19.480

>> I don't think so. >> That's Miss Patterson at our graduation. >> Oh really? >> Uh-huh.

02:20:19.480 - 02:20:25.980

>> How neat, the secretary, undersecretary of war or something like that. >> Right. >> Yeah, oh- >> Read that.

02:20:25.980 - 02:20:43.980

>> Oh Arnold came for 44-2, the chief signal officer of the USA. Sir, I have the, something to report the following- >> I have the honor to report the following progress made- >> Progress made by me in learning to operate a right airplane.

02:20:43.980 - 02:20:52.980

>> During the week I- >> Can you hold this? >> I have made- >> Twelve flights with an instructor and one flight by myself.

02:20:52.980 - 02:21:06.980

My instructor under the personnel, under- >> That thing that Dayton, Ohio- >> Instead of a history major you should have been a journalism major. But you just did that on your own.

02:21:06.980 - 02:21:16.980

>> And that's a little story about him by his son Bruce. >> Oh really? >> Cookies every Christmas. That was the big deal.

02:21:16.980 - 02:21:26.480

He made them in the shape of horses. >> She's in your flight. >> Well, I'll get my glasses so I can see her better. >> Here we are in our outfit.

02:21:26.480 - 02:21:34.480

>> Yep, mom's got one of those. >> Yeah. >> Favorite writer. He was-

02:21:34.480 - 02:21:44.480

>> I have a Jackie Lake. Jackie Lake was our upper class advisor. >> Yeah, you know what? When we, let's see, how did I contact her?

02:21:44.480 - 02:21:51.980

>> She lives near you. No, she lives in Florida. >> Florida. >> I know she sent her, I think she sent her-

02:21:51.980 - 02:21:58.480

>> Mary Bell's dead. That's Suzy Winston. Madge Leon. >> We did Suzy.

02:21:58.480 - 02:22:04.980

>> That's that big Joe Baker was in your- >> Yeah, she was in my day. >> Was she? >> Yeah, she took care of me.

02:22:04.980 - 02:22:10.480

I was so naive. And Joe was my- >> I have Joe. >> No sir, and I'm telling you, she'd say to those other girls,

02:22:10.480 - 02:22:17.480

you leave her alone. [laughter] Don't you pick on her. Oh, she was great.

02:22:17.480 - 02:22:26.480

Oh, there's Barry. Oh, that's great. >> Starts with a B. Margaret what?

02:22:26.480 - 02:22:32.480

Boylan or something like that. >> Is that B.J. Williams? >> That's Bird Granger. >> Oh.

02:22:32.480 - 02:22:41.480

>> And that's Heydoo. And that's Dora. And Mary Weather or something like that. >> I don't know her.

02:22:41.480 - 02:22:56.480

>> Oh, I can't think of her name. >> And we wore long dresses. And I don't know who, on the day that this class killed in a car accident, not long after that.

02:22:56.480 - 02:23:04.480

>> Oh, wow. >> That's technically- >> She was Williamson. And who are these other?

02:23:04.480 - 02:23:13.480

Collins and Ina Barkley. I think Ina Barkley. >> Ina was in my day, to the nurses who would come in. >> Yeah, I think she did it.

02:23:13.480 - 02:23:19.480

I don't know who else. I don't know Althea. >> She's not a pilot. She's a part of the-

02:23:19.480 - 02:23:25.480

>> What was that? >> I think that's Sylvia. >> Arnold and what was his name? >> That's Urban.

02:23:25.480 - 02:23:32.480

>> Urban. >> I'm trying to get you to say how when you get in the B.T. you had to put the hood over. >> Yeah, to fly.

02:23:32.480 - 02:23:37.480

>> Here's our first site. >> Right. >> And he- >> Right.

02:23:37.480 - 02:23:52.480

>> He was with us, and I had written him when Nancy first started this project, almost three years ago, I guess, two and a half. >> Did you get anything from him? >> No, but he told me, "If you come, you know, I've got things here that you can film, you know, and take pictures."

02:23:52.480 - 02:24:05.480

>> That's my cross country. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, we hear from Jean McCardle all the time on the Internet. >> Isn't that Annabelle and Joe and me and Shirley Tannehill?

02:24:05.480 - 02:24:26.480

She's dead, and that's one of our instructors, and that's Pat, I think. And is that Huffines? >> Yep, looks like her. >> And that girl she ran around with, Huffines, and this is Florine Mansib.

02:24:26.480 - 02:24:34.480

And Millie. >> That's Millie, and that's Mary. >> Mary Birch. >> I don't know who that is.

02:24:34.480 - 02:24:52.480

>> That's Mary. >> I think I have one of your flight, too. This is Susie Winston at the University of North Carolina in Greensboro, and he said that they were doing an archives at the university about women in World War II,

02:24:52.480 - 02:25:13.480

and he had the name of this one wasp and said they wanted to get her oral history to put it in the archives. And I thought, why not? Why not let Susie, let them put her? Yeah, I think I have one of these. >> That's the picture I took and got confined to around my neck and took that picture,

02:25:13.480 - 02:25:24.480

and Cochran looked at me like, you know. >> It goes through you. >> Yeah, just, get you to leave Douglas Air Force Base. This is Jerry Boyne and Beverly Frisbee.

02:25:24.480 - 02:25:35.480

They came along about in the last--look at my pinup girl. >> Oh, my word. >> Wasn't it--what was that artist that did all those? Wasn't Petty, was it?

02:25:35.480 - 02:25:44.480

>> I don't know. >> He did the one of Grebel. >> Oh, no. >> What's that? And this is Bonnie Edmund.

02:25:44.480 - 02:25:48.480

She was a queer. Jean Hickson, she-- >> That was such a thing. >> There's my Uncle Boyd.

02:25:48.480 - 02:25:56.480

>> Oh, how neat. >> This is Sweetwater. Now, here's Kramer. That's Kramer.

02:25:56.480 - 02:26:08.480

>> Oh, yeah. >> I think. >> I think it was '86 that he checked me. This other check ride was for--

02:26:08.480 - 02:26:23.480

>> I remember this vehicle. >> Oh, that lovely truck, yes. >> And this is Mary Margaret Durdable. And I don't know who that girl is.

02:26:23.480 - 02:26:41.480

>> I don't know, pretty girl. >> Mary Margaret Brown. I guess I didn't know. I don't have--

02:26:41.480 - 02:26:51.480

>> She was my favorite person. >> Yeah, I wrote you and said for you to write a letter to Mary Bell. >> Good for you. >> Yes, I did that.

02:26:51.480 - 02:26:57.480

I think I got a card. >> Her daughter emailed Nancy. >> We can't tell. I don't know who those are.

02:26:57.480 - 02:27:05.480

>> Yeah, but this is your flight, so. >> They will-- >> Oh, really? >> She died in a long, drawn-out battle with cancer.

02:27:05.480 - 02:27:11.480

She was a schoolteacher in California. And I've forgotten when that was. >> Welcome to Sweetwater. >> When did we go?

02:27:11.480 - 02:27:17.480

>> Where were you ordered to? >> Greenville, Mississippi. >> Greenville, Mississippi. Oh, here it is.

02:27:17.480 - 02:27:42.480

We were--and we were promoted to $3,000 per year. We were big time, lived high on the hog on that. >> And what did you do with all that money? >> So we needed all of that money to pay for--well, you can tell you today,

02:27:42.480 - 02:27:47.480

I was beaming from ear to ear. I made it. I made it. Thank you, Lord.

02:27:47.480 - 02:27:57.480

Thank you, Lord. >> And tell me about somebody. >> The only thing is-- >> Bounce, do you like bouncing?

02:27:57.480 - 02:28:02.480

>> No, it's okay. It looks great. >> Here's my--they probably asked me to fly. >> Yeah.

02:28:02.480 - 02:28:14.480

Listen, for homecoming, Nancy Erickson, the lead, and then three AT6s. And then Nancy called Joe. I said, "You just got to get your priorities straight." >> That's my other friend.

02:28:14.480 - 02:28:29.480

>> So I stood on the corner. >> Well, when I learned to write, she started me keeping a diary, and I still have my diary that she made me to keep when I was just a child. She gave me a little five-year, and you wrote about that much each day.

02:28:29.480 - 02:28:40.680

But she said, "Now, you have to write every day." And so now I write even though I don't have anything to say except I had catfish. catfish fish fish fish.