00:00:19.000 - 00:00:43.460

>> Yeah, I see. >> Okay, tell us what that is, Carolyn. they had us out and this is Colonel Tarchick who has been in the paper on the front page for two days on the front page of the air sea rescue that he made or that his boys made

00:00:44.840 - 00:01:04.980

and I don't know whether you've seen those people in there Helen Sniff is beside me and General Gordon's wife Mary Ann and then that is Hamaca. Hamaca you know is she's either the vice president of the treasure or something of the lost. Now

00:01:08.280 - 00:01:26.820

What did they invite you out there for? They were interested in, they took us in and introduced us to a big auditorium full of about 500 people. And he said, "These are the women "who flew the first military aircraft."

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And they all stood in unison. They saluted in unison and they sat down in unison. And that's the first time that I have ever been, I felt proud of that really

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because nobody's ever done that. - How did you? (laughing) Oh, that's wonderful.

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And the occasion was? - He just wanted people to get washed. - Oh. - They don't know about you.

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- Right. Is the picture, is that one picture, is that Janet Reno? - Yeah, that's when Washington,

00:02:06.140 - 00:02:18.080

that number, did you go to that? - Uh-huh, to the convention. - You know Janet is Winnie Wood's niece. And, um,

00:02:18.080 - 00:02:29.960

Janet's with Winnie on the left. On the left, looking this way. - And the girl with the purse and uniform? - Who's that?

00:02:31.980 - 00:02:39.780

Where was that? - Sorry guys. - Out, um, I guess in Sweetwater.

00:02:43.000 - 00:02:57.080

Except you didn't have that uniform when you graduated, or did you? No, you didn't have that uniform. I'll tell you that we had the--I'm sure that you must have done out there. It could have been at Gunner Field.

00:02:58.100 - 00:03:04.180

Yeah, because when you graduated, you had the tan slot. Oh, you will. Okay. And it was all the girls.

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Yes. Took everybody. I'm going to--. I'm not going to tell you.

00:03:08.820 - 00:03:15.740

- I'm good at this, I'll tell you. - Oh, you will be. It's nothing to it. I'm gonna start off so that we'll have a lead in

00:03:16.180 - 00:03:22.600

so that we know what day it is and that kind of thing. - Okay, I'm rolling. - Okay. - Have fun.

00:03:23.840 - 00:03:36.680

- I'm Deanie Parrish. Today we are interviewing Carolyn Culphelper Miller. She was a WASP class 43-7. We are in her home at Cocoa Beach, Florida.

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Today is the 24th of April, 2003. The videographer is Nancy Parrish. Okay, Carolyn, we'll start off, and if you'll just tell me your full name

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and when and where you were born. - Carolyn Culpepper Thames Miller, Perry, Florida. - Okay. Carolyn, tell me about your mom.

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What was your mom like? A very fiery individual. Really, she had had a hard upcoming because my father had left home when I was about eleven. She made her more determined to become somebody. She ended up a very wealthy woman because at one time she had five dress shops in Jacksonville,

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Florida. And then I think she started out in North Carolina but moved to Jacksonville because of the winters in North Carolina. And your father, do you remember your father?

00:04:51.280 - 00:05:20.600

Hedges. Yes, I do, but he was a very tall, handsome man, a ladies' man. It really is a little hard to tell you. Okay, that's okay. So you were born in Perry. How long did you live in Perry before? I graduated from high school and one year of college I went to Tallahassee.

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Tell me about your grandparents. My grandfather was the first doctor in Taylor County. He was one great guy, I'll tell you. Was this your mother's father?

00:05:37.200 - 00:05:58.800

No, it was my dad's father. I lived with him for a long time after my father left home. He used to take me fishing. He had access, being one of the many doctors in Taylor County, he had access to all the

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fishing ponds in Taylor County. He would take me out in his Model T Ford. In fact, I was about six years old when I was driving that Model T. The only reason like a drive-in because of the ruts. You had to stay in the ruts.

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Levy: Was Perry in Taylor County? Hildebrand: Yes, it was in Perry, Taylor County, yes. It was the county seat. He was the first doctor there, and his brother, younger brother, was judge for twenty-five years until he died. And then the judge's daughter took over as judge.

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Well, when you were growing up, when did you move and live with your grandparents? How old were you? I was around eleven. And before that, did you live in town or did you live out of town?

00:07:05.880 - 00:07:18.780

I lived in town right next door to the Baptist Church. Okay. When you started to school, where did you start to school? In Perry.

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In Perry. Did you walk or did you ride a bus? I walked to school. I took the second and third grade at the same time, and then I took the fifth

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and sixth grade at the same time. So I finished school when I was sixteen. I went on to Tallahassee then. Okay.

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When you were growing up, how did you spend your summer's vacations? Did you have family vacations? Once in a while, somebody would take me to North Carolina with them. Other than that, no.

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In those younger years, up until you moved in with your grandparents, did you live close to them? Yes. Tell me what a Christmas was like in your home.

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Well, it was a great big house right next to the church, and we had pine trees that came right out of the forest right near. Taylor County was the biggest lumber, had the biggest cypress mill in the United States. So it was well known, but we had a very, very happy Christmas.

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Would your grandparents come to your house, or would you go to theirs? I was living with them, my grandparents. Up until you were eleven, though? You know, I don't remember that much.

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Tell me about your mother's parents, those grandparents. Where did they live? They lived in Perry also, but there were always so many children. My mother was one of, I think, seven children.

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My grandparents always had a lot to do with all the children. My brother and I were the oldest grandchildren, so we were sort of ignored because the other kids were younger. Tell me about your brother. Did you have other siblings?

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Lillian: No, just my brother. Was he older? Lillian: He was younger. He was eighteen months younger. So we were very close. So as you grew up, were you interested in playing the things that he played, into sports

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and things, or were you into dolls? Levy: I was more sports. In fact, they said I should have been the boy. [Laughter] What was your favorite sport?

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Tree swinging, hanging by my legs on tree limbs. We finally had one of the toys that our swings attached, you know, that you could swing from them, swing or hang any way you wanted to on them. They had the bars. Kelly: I'm going to go back to Christmas and ask you, did you go out and cut down a

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tree for Christmas? Higgins: We did. Of course, no, but back then, that was so long ago, we didn't have trees brought to town. And would you get the tree several days before Christmas?

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Do you remember any of the decorations, making decorations? Hildebrandt No, I do not remember that. Kelly: Okay. When you started elementary school, are there any teachers in elementary school that you

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remember that made an impression on you? my English teacher, because she said that if we didn't have wars, that the world would be so overpopulated that God made us have wars so that we could kill off some of it. I thought that was the worst thing that I had ever heard. That stayed with me all my

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And now I really believe that she's probably right. Kelly: In elementary school, do you remember being interested in any particular subject? Huddleston: English, I think, was my main subject. Kelly: Living next door to the Baptist Church, were you involved in any of the activities?

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Huddleston: All the time. Kelly: Okay. How about your mom? Was she involved in church?

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>> Yes, she was. She taught Sunday school. >> Okay. >> And my grandfather used to sit out on the steps

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and I would say, "Pap, aren't you going to church?" And he'd say, "No, I built the church, so I don't have to go." >> When you finished elementary school and went on into -- Did you have a middle school or did you go directly into high school?

00:12:44.340 - 00:12:56.520

Huddleston: Directly into high school. What were your ambitions? Huddleston: At that time, I had no idea what I wanted to do. All I wanted to do was go to college for sure.

00:12:58.940 - 00:13:21.160

That was in the middle of the Depression. I went to Tallahassee one year, then my father moved to Atlanta, and my grandfather had died. So my grandmother moved and we had to sell the house. In high school, who were your role models?

00:13:24.330 - 00:13:32.340

You better stop. You can ask it again. Okay. And your role model, do you think?

00:13:32.960 - 00:13:49.720

My grandfather. Not only did he take me fishing, but he always spent so much time with us. Whenever he wasn't out on a call, he was taking us around, playing with us and things. Do you remember any story that he might have told you?

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No, I don't. In high school, what were your ambitions? I just wanted to go to college. Just college?

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Uh-huh. Probably be a nurse. That was always, I think, the children's main ideas of things to do as a nurse. Kelly: In high school, did you have extracurricular activities?

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What were you interested in? Huddleston: Basketball, and that's volleyball. Kelly: Were you into any drama or music? Huddleston: Yes, I was in plays.

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We always had plays during the year. And in high school, did any teacher influence you in any way that you recall? Not particularly. What was your social life like when you were in high school?

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Very little. People weren't as social as they are today. In a little town, there wasn't much to do. We did date occasionally.

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Did you have a high school prom? I don't think so. How big was your high school? About how many in your class?

00:15:17.920 - 00:15:31.760

Probably a hundred. The school wasn't very that large. When you were doing sports, did your school compete with other schools in sports? Yes.

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And were you able to compete? I never did get that far in sports. For graduation, did you have caps and gowns? I do not think so.

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But you graduated at Perry. Yes. And then, how did you decide which college you wanted to go to? Well, there wasn't much decision to make.

00:16:01.600 - 00:16:15.980

Tallahassee was fifty miles from Perry, so it was normal that I would go there. However, it was the best college in the state of Florida at that time. Was it a state teacher's college? It was a women's, just a women's college.

00:16:17.100 - 00:16:30.460

And I don't think that teachers were—it was not a teacher's college. And how did you get from Perry over to Tallahassee? Did you have a car? Higgins: Oh, heavens no.

00:16:30.640 - 00:16:39.960

I didn't know any children that had a car, and I was only sixteen at the time when I went up there. But— Kelly: Where did you live when you went to school?

00:16:40.560 - 00:16:51.020

Higgins: I lived at a dormitory. Kelly: And what did you plan to study? Just a regular— Higgins: Business.

00:16:52.160 - 00:17:02.800

And I stayed in business because after I left Tallahassee, I went to Marsh Business College in Atlanta. I graduated from there. Okay.

00:17:03.220 - 00:17:28.560

But you stayed two years in Florida? No, I stayed at Florida State for one year, and then that's when we moved. And why did your family move? Because we had sold the house, my dad moved to Atlanta and I was living with my grandmother

00:17:28.560 - 00:17:45.100

at the time. So we all had to move. And did that include your grandfather, who was the doctor? No, he had died by then. How did that affect you?

00:17:48.820 - 00:18:04.300

Because I love that old man. It's just unbelievable. Kelly: When you moved to Atlanta, where did you live? Dunn: We lived right in Peachtree Avenue.

00:18:04.550 - 00:18:19.660

Kelly: Okay. So when you moved, it was you and your mother and your grandmother and your brother? Dunn: Yes. And then, how did you decide, or why did you decide to go to business school?

00:18:21.530 - 00:18:31.740

Well, that was just the thing to do. It was the finest business school in the South. Had you had some commercial classes in high school? Yes.

00:18:35.000 - 00:18:50.320

So how did you get to school? Did you live close to the school? No, I had to take a streetcar. After I finished the school, then I rode the streetcar.

00:18:51.670 - 00:19:17.240

Can I tell you about how I started my flying? Because I took the streetcar from northeast Atlanta all the way to southwest Atlanta, And maybe got fifteen minutes flying time. Kelly: When did you first become interested in flying?

00:19:17.610 - 00:19:29.140

Huddleston: In Atlanta, when my mother had gotten after me. Now, this is—you're going to have to stop that. I've got to scratch my nose. [Laughter.]

00:19:29.140 - 00:19:49.540

Kelly: Time out scratch. When is the first time that you had an interest in flying? What gave you that interest? When I was working, I had graduated from Marsh Business College, and I was working at Sears

00:19:49.600 - 00:20:13.660

Roebuck, mail order house. I was secretary to the second biggest man at the mail order house. I had encouraged my brother. he had been called up, and I had encouraged him to go into the Navy. And I said, "Don't

00:20:13.740 - 00:20:45.160

go in as an enlisted man. Go in as a cadet, flying cadet." And my mother was so unhappy with me that she was very, very unhappy with me. So I said, "Well, I'll do it myself." And that's the first time I ever had the idea. And I started going out to the Atlanta Airport, which was much smaller at that time.

00:20:46.200 - 00:21:07.700

In fact, it was only three hangars, three ways in. In the meantime, had Pearl Harbor happened? Yes. Do you recall where you were and how that affected you?

00:21:08.200 - 00:21:33.440

I was playing the baby grand piano and my brother and I had lived at a boarding house, a glorified boarding house in Atlanta, not far from where my father lived. It had been built at one time for the governor's mansion. I was playing the baby grand piano when it came over the radio.

00:21:36.520 - 00:21:57.960

Everybody was so—I can't tell you just how upset everybody was, because they said the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. Let me back up and ask you about when you learned to play the piano. When I was about five years old, I started.

00:21:59.500 - 00:22:19.840

In fact, I was given free lessons because my teacher thought that I had so much capability that she wanted to teach me. And was that a love of yours to play the piano? It was.

00:22:22.160 - 00:22:38.780

else in your family musical? Huddleston My aunt was. My father's sister. Kelly Okay. Okay, we'll go back. You wanted your brother to be a naval cadet, and then you decided to fly yourself. How did you find someone

00:22:38.820 - 00:22:49.860

to teach you to fly? Huddleston Because they were giving CPT programs out at the Atlanta Airport. Kelly What is CPT?

00:22:51.120 - 00:23:08.540

Civilian pilot training. How were you able to get into that? I did not join the CPT program, but they had plenty of pilots out there that were instructors. Do you recall why you did not get into that program?

00:23:09.880 - 00:23:27.640

One that was not necessary. there were -- it was for all boys, men, young ones who I think wanted to start a flying program before they got into service. Kelly: Right.

00:23:28.120 - 00:23:35.600

So it really was not open to females. Steele: No. Kelly: Okay. And you found an instructor.

00:23:36.080 - 00:23:51.380

Steele: Yes. What was the first airplane that you ever went up in? Higborne Taylorcraft. And how did that first flying experience affect you?

00:23:52.060 - 00:24:03.160

Did it make you want to do it more? Oh, sure. I loved it. And then you started taking lessons?

00:24:03.640 - 00:24:20.400

Yes. How far would you have to travel? I traveled from northeast Atlanta to southwest Atlanta. And then at night, I was going to Georgia Tech, taking meteorology, navigation, and

00:24:20.400 - 00:24:35.700

civil air regulations. I got my instructor's rating in those. Then I would go from northwest Atlanta, I would go back to take a streetcar back to northeast Atlanta, out where I lived.

00:24:36.080 - 00:24:56.900

So it took me well over an hour to get where I was going. Maybe I would get thirty minutes flying time, maybe fifteen. And then I would go to school at night, and I would land up back at home late, up at work at eight o'clock again.

00:24:57.150 - 00:25:11.300

Kelly: Wow. What did your mother think about your flying? She said, "Now I have two flying." Kelly: In the meantime, what was your brother doing?

00:25:12.060 - 00:25:37.940

Mildred: He went through Navy Cadets, and he went to graduate from Pensacola. Kelly: At the time you started flying, did you know any other girls who were flying? Mildred: No, but I talked one to go out with me. In fact, she finished at the same time and got her private license about the same time.

00:25:38.880 - 00:26:06.940

She and I went out to Sweetwater together. When you first started flying, what did you think that you would do with that flying? Well, I had heard about the WASPs in the meantime. to a man who knew my boss very well. He knew all about it. In fact, the recruiter asked

00:26:07.040 - 00:26:39.460

him if he knew anybody who was interested in flying and he said, "I know this gal down in Atlanta who's worked her tail off and she wants to fly." And he said, "I think you ought would take her. So all he did was -- she called the Atlanta airport when I was making my first and only cross-country. And the tower called me, and I thought surely that I had made some

00:26:39.560 - 00:26:58.640

sort of an error, because I didn't know why the tower would call me on a cross-country. And they said, "Report back here to the tower as soon as you get in." And all they had to tell me was that this recruiter had called me from Charlotte, which was my joy.

00:27:00.440 - 00:27:23.140

Great surprise. Where had you gone on that cross-country? From Atlanta to Macon and some little town in Alabama and back. the time you were learning to fly, was there ever any unusual thing that happened that

00:27:23.140 - 00:27:44.200

you want to tell us about? Lee: No. Everything was okay. Kelly: Okay. So when you came back in and called them, what did they tell you? Lee: She made an appointment and I went through. She said, "I will accept you if you pass

00:27:44.200 - 00:28:02.540

the physical. So I only had to go over to Fort McPherson, which is also in the area of the airport. And I passed the physical, so that was all there was to it. Anything unusual about taking that physical? No, not a thing.

00:28:04.220 - 00:28:10.500

You've been used to a doctor. [Laughter] I was in pretty good shape. [Siren]

00:28:10.660 - 00:28:21.620

Oops. I'll tell you, I was delivered by my grandfather and that was the worst ordeal that my mother had to go through. She was forever embarrassed to face him.

00:28:24.200 - 00:28:40.920

That shows the difference in today. Working at the hospital, it's so funny how people don't care what they show. And I still, I grew up a little bit like my mother, that I don't show everything all the time.

00:28:42.960 - 00:28:59.000

But I was in the room the other day with a man, and the nurses were changing his bed, and he would lie there straight open, wide open legs, legs wide open. He didn't care who saw him. And that happens all the time.

00:28:59.520 - 00:29:07.300

And he didn't have on his pajamas? No. Is that cat bothering you? No, no, not at all.

00:29:11.760 - 00:29:36.920

Okay. After you took your physical, were you interviewed by anyone from the WASP organization? Only the recruiter, but I think after I took the examination, we received Doris, the girl who went with me. In fact, that was Robbie Grace. Her husband was one of the first people

00:29:36.940 - 00:30:03.980

to go to Hawaii. How did you get from Atlanta out to West Texas? Now, that was a great—a real good experience with the girl that I went with, whose father was in the automobile business, gave us a brand new red convertible. Back in those days,

00:30:04.020 - 00:30:32.100

you know, we had tires, no tires, no gas, but he sent us out there with extra tires and all the gasoline that we could have possibly used in a year. And when we pulled up at some hotel in Memphis for our first night, you should have seen the guys that were waiting go overseas. They were stationed there at night. That was the biggest thrill that I

00:30:32.120 - 00:30:58.200

guess all of us ever had, pulling up there, the two girls out on our way to Texas, flying to school. I kept up with this young man for a long, long time that met us out there. Then when you got to Sweetwater, tell me what you saw there. Had you ever been to Texas?

00:30:58.530 - 00:31:19.260

Huddleston No, never been to Texas. I had never seen this much flatland in my life, much desert, I thought it was at the time. When you got to Sweetwater, to the air base, were there already girls in training?

00:31:19.890 - 00:31:45.560

Hildebrandt Yes. This was the seventh class. Do you recall when you arrived at Avenger, what happened? I just think we went into what was called headquarters at the time, and we were interviewed. I don't remember the name of the lady who interviewed us.

00:31:47.020 - 00:32:13.480

Then we were assigned a bay, told how to get there. We were on the very end of the bay—you want to know where it was—to the left of the row, stuck out in the woods. And no woods, but stuck out in the flatland.

00:32:15.240 - 00:32:39.540

When you reported for training, what did you think the purpose of the training girls was? Why were they needed? McMillan: We had no idea. Kelly: But you knew you were going to be flying military aircraft.

00:32:39.920 - 00:33:08.220

But back then it was not that impressive. We didn't realize that we were flying military aircraft for the first time. Levy: Tell me about your bay mates. Mildred: I had six. There were six of us and four California gals. I had never been around

00:33:08.160 - 00:33:32.260

anybody from California. And I thought they were wild because he didn't wear any underwear. They didn't wear nightgowns. And they thought we were the sissies because the girl I went out with wore a nightgown and so did I. And they just thought we were as awful as I thought. We thought they were. But we got along very well.

00:33:32.920 - 00:34:00.480

Do you remember any particular backgrounds they might have had, what they were working in or how they were different from you? Lee: Well, Patty Sears was working for a newspaper. I do not know what Audrey Tardy was doing, but I am sure she had a job.

00:34:10.120 - 00:34:25.560

I just do not remember what Allaire was doing. What was the biggest adjustment that you had to make? Sleeping on cot and breathing that sand. What were those cots like?

00:34:26.480 - 00:34:54.420

as a rock, they were just cuts. I think maybe they had a slight mattress on them, but it didn't feel as though there was a mattress at all. Sixth Ave. was trying to use that one bathroom, was something else. Tell me what a typical day was like for training.

00:34:59.380 - 00:35:19.180

Early, we had a great bugler. She was—at night she could tap. But early in the morning, it was a mad rush to get to the bathroom, brush teeth, try to get out to breakfast.

00:35:21.260 - 00:35:48.880

We were usually on the flight line quite early. And that was, I guess that was all I can remember about the mornings. What was the food like? I don't think we ever really fussed about the food, as long as we got fed, because we

00:35:48.940 - 00:36:07.220

were always hungry. Do you recall what some of the rules were? For example, how could a girl get washed out since she already knew how to fly? I don't really know.

00:36:10.080 - 00:36:31.460

Did any of the girls in your bay, your baymates, wash out? One. It was a girl from South Carolina, and she just couldn't fly. But the rest of us went through.

00:36:34.600 - 00:36:57.400

What was the first airplane that you flew at Avenger? A PT-19, which was Fairchild. How was that different from the airplanes you had been flying? Well, you were not sitting in an enclosed area.

00:37:01.280 - 00:37:20.200

You could open a hatch and you'd be right out in the open. It was a low wing. Previously I had flown a high, above the cabin type with one wing. We didn't have the seats side by side.

00:37:20.500 - 00:37:41.940

We had one in the front and one in the back, the instructor in the back. When you were flying in primary training, did you have other auxiliary fields that you would fly out of? Huddleston Yes, we did.

00:37:44.820 - 00:37:59.900

How many students did your instructor have, do you recall? Huddleston I have no idea. How long did primary training last? Huddleston Now, that question is a little bit hard.

00:37:59.920 - 00:38:09.140

I can't tell you that. Kelly: Okay. And then when you finished primary training, I know there was a wishing well there. What significance did that wishing well have?

00:38:09.470 - 00:38:28.580

Mildred: We all thought that if we threw pennies in it or money, that we would throw it in and hope to heavens that we could pass our tests and whatnot. Kelly: Okay. As far as going from one place to another on the base, going to the flight line, for

00:38:28.580 - 00:38:40.280

example, did you go by yourselves or how did you march? How did you— Ligon: Yes, we did. Usually singing the Zoot Suits and Parachutes.

00:38:40.580 - 00:38:49.660

Clemson: Okay. You want to sing a little bit? Ligon: Not my voice. Clemson: If we had a grand piano, you could play it, right?

00:38:50.100 - 00:39:01.640

Ligon: Yeah. When you finished primary training, did you have some time off? Huddleston No, I do not recall that. I do not think we did.

00:39:01.640 - 00:39:11.700

We went right into basic. While you were in training, did you have weekends off? Huddleston Yes, we did. What did you do on those weekends?

00:39:12.140 - 00:39:26.520

We went headed to town the first thing. Did you recall any of the citizens of Sweetwater that you might have met, or did you have any interaction with the citizens? Huddleston No, we didn't then.

00:39:28.640 - 00:39:43.700

What was there to do in Sweetwater? Very little. We went to the hotel, and we tried to get a room. Maybe a dozen of us would be in a room, but just give us a place to stop walking the street.

00:39:46.500 - 00:40:10.320

and just be away from the field. That was all we wanted. Levy: While you were there during the summertime, did you ever go swimming somewhere? Huddleston: Yes, we went out to a lake. The name of that lake I don't remember. Levy: Tell me about the weather in Sweetwater.

00:40:11.240 - 00:40:42.520

Hot, windy, sandy. The whole state of Texas is so massive that even after I started fearing aircraft, I was just amazed at how fast I could cross a state line after flying in Texas. And when you talk about sand, was there ever a time that you were not able to land when

00:40:42.520 - 00:40:49.680

you wanted to land because of the sand? Huddleston Not when I was there. Okay. It changed.

00:40:50.990 - 00:41:04.140

Out of tape. I am all of a sudden feeling really gritty just from listening to you talk. And then we lived right off the Sahara Desert in Tripoli, Libya. So I've had my share.

00:41:04.920 - 00:41:22.040

In Tripoli, I could reach down when we'd get a ghibli through there, reach down through my boobs and pick up a handful of mud, red mud. You had already graduated. Were you aware of what the girls were doing who had graduated?

00:41:24.840 - 00:41:40.060

Not really. I did know that they were sent, some of them, ferrying, but mostly ferrying. That's all that we were interested in at the time. We didn't realize all the other things we'd have to do.

00:41:42.200 - 00:42:03.740

Tell me about your uniforms. What did you wear when you were in training? that were internally too large and wrapped up, belted down here. They were still just—you had to roll them up because they were so long and just wrap

00:42:03.740 - 00:42:16.860

them together because they were so large. Levy: And then for dress? Litz: We had khaki pants and white shirts. Tell me about Brown School.

00:42:19.210 - 00:42:46.900

Lillian: Well, I never liked school. That and Link Trainer were not my favorites. And the Link Trainer instructor told me that I would never fly on an airplane. He said, "You will never fly."

00:42:46.900 - 00:43:08.440

I thought he had put his finger on it to hex me. Apparently, he did not like my training. When you moved on into basic training, tell me about instrument flying. How did you like that?

00:43:10.640 - 00:43:35.060

I enjoyed it very much, because I knew there was somebody sitting in the back seat. One time, when I had to take an exam, we were supposed to fly to the name of the nearest town. We'd fly to Abilene, and I think it was a triangle.

00:43:36.040 - 00:43:58.680

I don't remember the other triangle, part of a triangle. But I had memorized my Dottie's and Ditto's that night, and I made a perfect, absolutely perfect under-the-hood trip. And he was just astounded.

00:43:59.220 - 00:44:20.760

And I didn't tell him, though, that I had memorized it. So I fooled one, I guess. Do you remember, did any particular instructor stand out in your mind? Pinkard, because he used to beat my legs, my knees with a stick, because I'd come in

00:44:20.760 - 00:44:38.220

too slow landing. And he'd really beat my legs, which gave my mother really much anger, because she just thought that that was the meanest thing she'd ever heard. Were you able to correspond with your family while you were there?

00:44:38.450 - 00:44:51.440

Sullivan: Sure. I believe that was the first thing we would do when we got to Sweetwater when we were off on a weekend. We would find a telephone and call home.

00:44:53.490 - 00:45:15.980

Kelly: When you finished basic training, then let me go back and ask you, what kind of airplanes were you flying in basic? And then when you finished that, completed it, what did you fly? Huddleston: AT-6s and then UC-78s.

00:45:16.660 - 00:45:35.680

Okay. Did you fly AT-6s for some period before you went into the twin engine? I think we had to graduate in the AT-6s. How was that AT-6 different from the BT?

00:45:37.230 - 00:45:48.540

Well, the BT was called the bomber—what was that called? The Balti Vibrator. Balti Vibrator, right. Thanks.

00:45:50.280 - 00:46:10.900

But the AT-6 was so smooth and had so much more get-up than the BT-13s, and it was not a vibrator like that. Tell me some of the things you learned in flying. Did you have a lot of aerobatics?

00:46:13.480 - 00:46:40.460

Well, yes, we did, mostly, I think, in the 86. What was the purpose of then moving you into twin engines? Did you take cross-countries in those, or what were you learning? Huddleston I have no idea what the purpose was, but I

00:46:40.560 - 00:46:55.260

just figured that it was just something else in our training, just to give us twin engine. Kelly: When you went into twin engine— Huddleston Okay. Kelly: I'm very happy with you.

00:46:55.800 - 00:47:17.520

Huddleston Yes, I'm sure. Levy: Okay. In Twin Engine, did you fly just with an instructor or did you fly with other trainees? Steele: Never flew with a trainee, but only with instructors. And then when we were assigned

00:47:18.200 - 00:47:44.380

to Gunter, we did fly—in fact, we flew the fellows that were going on leave. Maybe three or four of them would—I'd take them up to Birmingham or someplace to catch—Atlanta, catch flights up. It was the closest place that they could get a good flight out, a civilian flight.

00:47:45.400 - 00:48:08.780

When you finished your training at Avenger, tell me about your graduation. Did any of your parents or anybody come? I think my mother came. General Young's wife made the address.

00:48:10.040 - 00:48:34.080

And it was one of our most important parades that we had ever done. Levy: Was Miss Cochran there? Huddleston No, she was not there at that time. Levy: When you graduated and got orders to report somewhere, did you have a choice of

00:48:34.100 - 00:48:59.360

your assignments? I tell you, we did not, because they assigned me to the West Coast. I told them that my mother was ill, which she was at the time. I asked for the Southeast, and they sent me to Montgomery.

00:49:00.500 - 00:49:18.640

How did you get from Avenger to Montgomery? Levy: That I cannot tell you. I do not even remember. I can tell you how I got from Avenger to instructor school at Randolph.

00:49:18.950 - 00:49:31.200

Kelly: Okay, but you went to Gunter first, is that right? Levy: Yes. When you got to Gutter, to whom did you report? Steele: We were sent to Maxwell.

00:49:35.320 - 00:49:53.100

We reported to some colonel. I have no idea, but he said, "Two WASPs." He was very astounded when we said we were WASPs. He called someone and said, "I have two WASPs here.

00:49:53.180 - 00:50:14.700

What am I going to do with them?" And he said, "Pack them in oil and send them back to the factory." He thought he was talking about engines. My roommate was going with the Commandant of Cadets at the time.

00:50:15.680 - 00:50:42.360

And so he said, "You do not want to fly." I'm trying to think of the name of the bomber, the B-24s. He arranged for us to go to Gunter. How long were you at Maxwell?

00:50:43.480 - 00:50:56.800

Just a few days? Yes, because he wanted to get rid of us. They were as happy as we were to leave. Kelly: When you got to Gunter, what kind of an air base was Gunter?

00:50:57.000 - 00:51:10.900

Was it a training base? Huddleston: It was a training base, yes, and BT-13s. Kelly: What was your assignment? Huddleston: Testing.

00:51:11.380 - 00:51:47.220

Kelly: Could you describe what testing was all about? Levy: Yes, we had a French squadron, and the French could really tear the airplanes up. We would take the airplanes after they were fixed in the hangar, and we had to take them up and do all sorts of tests with them, acrobatics mostly. I was very, very disappointed with

00:51:47.280 - 00:52:15.160

some of our guys who put the things together because they would leave. Wire cutters, pliers, that's the reason I never did fly after I got out, because I had been so scared when I was flying, testing. Were there several WASPs also at Gunter?

00:52:15.860 - 00:52:29.880

No, there were only two at the time. Where did you live? We lived with a doctor who had just recently died, his wife, and a beautiful home, just a beautiful home.

00:52:30.860 - 00:52:46.640

We could walk down the hill to the streetcar, get the streetcar out to the base. Levy: And how did that commanding officer receive you? Litz: Very well. He was quite nice to us.

00:52:46.720 - 00:53:06.140

Levy: While you were at Gunter, were you able to go back and forth to visit your family? Litz: No. Did you stay at Gutter until the Wasps were disbanded? Lippmann: No, I was sent to Randolph Field Instructor School.

00:53:07.140 - 00:53:34.740

There were eleven of us who General Arnold had picked, I guess, to go over. They told us we would never have to instruct. My roommate went with me, and she had known the colonel who was in charge of flying school. We went to see him one day, and he said, "Don't worry.

00:53:35.450 - 00:54:02.500

You won't have to go to finish because you'll be home in two weeks. We've given you the best flying instructors, the best ground school instructors." And he said, "You'll never make it, though." I don't know who that—all of us graduated.

00:54:03.780 - 00:54:24.580

I think there were three who decided to not go finish it, but the rest of us graduated. Levy: And who was teaching you? Were they military or civilian? Levy: When you finished going through school, how long did that school last?

00:54:25.280 - 00:54:43.880

Huddleston: I think about eight weeks, yeah, probably eight weeks. Levy: And then what was your assignment? Huddleston: We went back to Gunter, and shortly after that, maybe a month or so, I found out I was pregnant, so I couldn't fly anymore.

00:54:45.860 - 00:55:14.440

I had gotten married in the meantime. One of the instructors from the hangar that I was flying out of. What qualities did he have that made you fall in love with him and marry? Well, I looked out the back and watched all of them playing volleyball, and I picked the

00:55:14.500 - 00:55:26.220

guy with the prettiest legs. And he was quite nice. He came from a family of doctors. There, there, I'm associated with the doctors again.

00:55:26.540 - 00:55:56.980

In fact, he had been taken out of the University of Alabama Medical School, which became a subject before we went back into service because they let us out at one time, but he wanted to go back to med school. And I said, "If you could tell me, assure me that we would never have to come back into service like we have now." That was, I guess, when the

00:55:57.120 - 00:56:06.800

Korean War started. Levy: So you were married at Gutter? Lee: Yes. Levy: Tell me about your wedding.

00:56:07.740 - 00:56:21.780

Lee: Well, we had to—I knew I was going to go to flying schools, so we had to do it in a hurry. It was a church wedding. Levy: Did your mom come?

00:56:22.060 - 00:56:37.820

Lee: Mom did come. In fact, she was very disappointed because I did not have a bridesmaid and all the big floral outfits. She had planned a big church wedding, and I said, "Mother, this is wartime.

00:56:38.040 - 00:56:55.820

I cannot do this, not when I am flying anyway." But I went to Atlanta. I got one of the instructors to take me over to see her. I had told -- in fact, I have a picture of us, the three of us, walking the streets of

00:56:55.960 - 00:57:28.780

Atlanta, and my pretty little tiny mother with the big hat on. And they took me over there to tell her that I was pregnant. She said that, "No, to tell her that I was married." Levy: Then did you come back to Gunner and live? Huddleston: Yes.

00:57:28.830 - 00:57:37.340

Levy: You and your husband? Huddleston: Yes. Levy: Then where was your baby born? Where were you? It was born there in Montgomery.

00:57:40.800 - 00:57:57.020

He was. How did you spend your time, once you resigned from the WASP, before the baby came? How did you spend your time? We had a—I guess it was an apartment.

00:57:57.800 - 00:58:11.520

Condos weren't, I don't think, popular then. And it was a nice apartment in Montgomery. Kelly: Did you become involved with the officers' wives? Lee: No.

00:58:13.100 - 00:58:28.980

I don't do that now. I don't belong to any social thing to do with the Air Force, except that it's aliens. Kelly: And your little boy was born there, and then how long did you stay there before you were transferred?

00:58:29.140 - 00:58:49.440

>> Oh, probably two years. And then where was he stationed? I was just trying to think. We went to Mississippi from there.

00:58:50.640 - 00:59:03.320

Biloxi? No, what's just north of Biloxi? Shreveport. We did go to Biloxi, as a matter of fact, but we went to Columbus at one time.

00:59:03.520 - 00:59:13.520

Now, take me back into those years, I cannot tell you everything that happened. Kelly: Okay. But he was in the medical field. Lee: No.

00:59:15.820 - 00:59:28.360

He was a B-25 instructor. In fact, he got the Air Medal for instructing so much. That's another time I caught really the dickens, because he said, "What did you do?

00:59:29.020 - 00:59:48.000

You had to do something." And when he got called to the commanding officer's office, and when he found out he had gotten the air medal, he couldn't apologize enough, because I was accused of writing bad checks. Levy: Were you ever able to fly with him?

00:59:48.320 - 00:59:52.020

Huddleston: No. Levy: Even before you got out of the Wasp? Huddleston: No. Levy: You never flew together?

00:59:52.100 - 01:00:03.420

Huddleston: No. Levy: Okay. And once you left Mississippi, then where were you stationed? Hildebrandt: Savannah.

01:00:05.420 - 01:00:23.320

Somewhere in that time we went overseas, went to Okinawa. Kelly: Where did your son start school? Hildebrandt: In Atlanta. That was after a tour in North Africa, though.

01:00:23.720 - 01:00:39.340

Let me ask you, what was your tour like in Okinawa first? We went there first before you went to Africa, right? Huddleston It was pretty hard. My little boy had two maids.

01:00:39.680 - 01:01:12.080

It took one maid to boil the water, our drinking water, and one maid to look after him. there wasn't enough work around to do, because we had very little furniture. I had two maids. One, they slept in the hot closet. Over there, you had to have a hot closet. But no air. But they didn't mind. It was the first time they had ever slept on a mattress. We covered

01:01:12.080 - 01:01:34.260

our foot lockers with mattresses, and they slept on that. Kelly: And then when your tour was up in Okinawa, were you sent directly to Africa? Huddleston: No. I think that's when we came back to Savannah. Kelly: Okay. And then tell me what it was like in Africa.

01:01:35.400 - 01:02:12.340

It was a wonderful assignment. I had worked on Okinawa in headquarters, and as soon as I got to North Africa, I went to work for Crow Steer Shepard. I was the only woman in the field, and I really had a ball. I worked for the shepherd out of Atlanta. He was the owner of all the equipment, and I was his secretary when he came over.

01:02:13.090 - 01:02:32.780

What kind of equipment was this? They were building a bombing range south of Tripoli, down in the desert. In fact, he did a lot of building on the base, Crow, Steer, and Shepherd. They were a very large outfit.

01:02:33.870 - 01:02:46.620

Did you live on an air base? We lived in downtown Tripoli for a year, and then we moved out to the base for the last two years. At this point, how old was your son?

01:02:50.060 - 01:03:15.340

He was, I guess, in Tripoli, about six or seven. What was your husband doing? He was commander of the weather station. When you finished your tour in Tripoli, where were you sent?

01:03:19.880 - 01:03:31.260

Higginbotham: To Atlanta. We were sent to Atlanta, and that's where my third child was born. Where was your second child born? Higginbotham: Savannah.

01:03:33.020 - 01:03:44.840

Did you like being an Air Force wife? Higginbotham: I loved it. When you went back to Atlanta, what was your husband assigned to do? Huddleston: It had to be weather.

01:03:50.640 - 01:04:05.580

It was in a weather station, but he was ill. He had flown over the Alps and had lost complete control. I must have gotten on the downwind side and sucked into the drafts that they warn you about all the time.

01:04:06.640 - 01:04:28.660

He lost complete control of a C-54, and he never did seem to recuperate from that. So from Atlanta, they sent him to Eglin to— Kelly: When he lost control, did he crash? Huddleston: No, he did not, but he never thought he would get out of it.

01:04:30.030 - 01:04:41.400

Kelly: So mentally— Huddleston: It really bothered him mentally, and he stopped flying when he got back. Did you accompany him to Eglin? Yes.

01:04:42.240 - 01:04:49.720

No. Well, eventually. We were transferred to Eglin. And now you had three boys?

01:04:50.240 - 01:05:00.540

No, I had a girl in the meantime. So now you have two boys and one girl? That's right. At Eglin, did you live on the base?

01:05:01.200 - 01:05:12.080

Yes. Then when your children were growing up, did you have any other children? Were you involved in their activities? Huddleston: Absolutely.

01:05:13.370 - 01:05:27.040

Tell me some of the things. Were you in PTA? Tell me some of the things you did with your kids. Huddleston: In PTA, and I took them always on long walks or played ball with them.

01:05:30.060 - 01:06:02.400

I've sat in a grandstand for hours on end watching my little one play baseball. In fact, there's a man here in town who said that he and I were going to be 100 years old before we ever got out of the grandstand. We kept having children, and it lasted such a long time.

01:06:03.720 - 01:06:31.620

You evidently thought it was important to participate in what they did. Tell me why you think it's important for parents to participate. Well, you really should spend a lot of time with your children, because they need the confidence that I think a parent can give them. They need sports. My daughter went to

01:06:31.800 - 01:07:01.260

FAU down in Delray Beach, in Boca, and she was graduated in the sports field. What does FAU stand for? Florida Atlantic University. What did your children—what were they interested in when they were growing up?

01:07:03.560 - 01:07:20.940

Were they interested in flying? No, they were interested in dancing, because I ran a dancing school in Bermuda. I made them attend the school. Where did you learn to be a dance instructor?

01:07:21.190 - 01:07:40.480

Higginbotham: When I was growing up, I took ballet and tap in Atlanta. Kelly: Oh, I think I missed some of your growing up. Which did you like better in dancing? Higginbotham: Tap.

01:07:40.550 - 01:07:48.400

Kelly: Tap. Higginbotham: Tap and ballroom. When did you move to Bermuda, after Eglin? McMillan: Yes.

01:07:49.620 - 01:08:02.900

And what did your husband do in Bermuda? Was he stationary? McMillan: He was commander of the weather station. How did you begin a dancing school?

01:08:03.880 - 01:08:35.100

Well, the commander, Dr. Freese, had a ballet teacher for a wife. She and I ran the dancing school. We had to use the base theater. The Air Force let us go in and take all the silver from the buildings down where we repaired

01:08:35.520 - 01:09:03.100

our ship's airplane engines, and we could make costumes. The commander of the base was one of our ushers. My husband was the other, and the children just—my daughter hated it because she was always—she said that big, tall turkey in the center, she was always the tallest.

01:09:06.760 - 01:09:23.280

She didn't like the dancing. Levy: Did your boys ever take dancing? My little one. My big boy didn't. Kelly: Were most of your students dependents?

01:09:23.440 - 01:09:49.320

Higgins: Yes. A few were outsiders. When you finished your tour in Bermuda, then where were you stationed? I think that must have been when we—I cannot tell you. I just do not remember that right now.

01:09:50.940 - 01:10:23.120

Where was he stationed when he decided to retire? It must have been Eglin. I better cut because I'm lost. I flew over Mississippi right during the hurricane that tore up the Mississippi coast, trying

01:10:23.120 - 01:10:43.280

to get out there before he died. And he had lung cancer, and so did my oldest son, had exactly the same lung cancer that he had, because they were both dead within two months after they found out they had cancer, both of them. But my son died in Gainesville, Florida.

01:10:45.480 - 01:11:15.100

Levy: Had your husband already retired when he got sick? Huddleston: Yes, he just retired. Oh, I know now, it had to be '62, because that's the Cuban crisis came up, wasn't it? We lived right across the street from -- that's where we went after Bermuda. We came back to Montgomery, to Maxwell Air Force Base, and he was commander

01:11:15.100 - 01:11:53.280

the weather station there. He made L.C. there. We lived right in front of headquarters, and I can remember all the soldiers marching back and forth. We thought they were going to leave for the Cuban crisis. And you know, that was one outfit. One time that we barely missed getting the atomic bomb on us. We were very lucky. That one is driving me crazy. Are we

01:11:53.360 - 01:12:10.880

about through? How old was your son when he got sick? He was about thirty-nine. He died just after he turned forty.

01:12:12.180 - 01:12:32.900

Kelly: Carolyn, what got you through those sad times? Morgan: Well, I can't really say. I have always been a real churchgoer, a believer in God. I think maybe that was one thing that got me through.

01:12:37.940 - 01:13:11.940

Levy: How did you happen to end up in Florida? McClendon: Because it was my home. When we were in Montgomery, I had bought a house before we went over to North Africa and bought a house here. When it was just a wild seaside town, there was no building at all here. I bought the end of a city block and didn't

01:13:12.000 - 01:13:53.380

know it until we got back from Bermuda. But we decided to come back home. We had to have a real sit-to with the children, though, because my husband wanted to go back to Milton, Florida. I said to the kids, "You know that we have that nice home on the beach. You don't want to go back up there to Milton. They're a different breed of cats up there."

01:13:53.380 - 01:14:11.740

They agreed, but we had an evening of confessions to make, my children. He said, "Don't you influence the kids." I said, "I didn't. I just told them that they wouldn't have a beach when they got to Milton."

01:14:13.900 - 01:14:40.260

Anyway, we wound up here, and that's where he died. He went out to Patrick one day, and he had an X-ray that was completely black. So they sent him out to Lackland just to see what was wrong. I was working in a bank at that time, and I had to get off from work to go over.

01:14:40.840 - 01:14:59.500

Somebody had to work when he was going through that surgery. I took off and was working at a bank. I got a flight out there, and that's when I flew over north of the storm that was hitting the Gulf Coast.

01:15:01.210 - 01:15:17.280

Tell me about your children. Well, Jim was a great big guy. He was the first one. like his dad, looked more like me, but he was built like his father exactly. He was

01:15:17.280 - 01:15:54.420

a big man. He was a very brilliant kid. I have been told more than once that he had a genius IQ. He had one hitch in the Air Force. They took him out of the University of Alabama because there were so many illiterates in Alabama at the time that they didn't have -- now, that you can't use, probably. But they had to take him out of college to go

01:15:54.680 - 01:16:25.520

join the Army. So he went to Germany. In the meantime, he had been in a place in Georgia where most of the guys who went overseas to the Far East this time, or the Middle East— Levy: Camp Stewart? Steele: Yeah, it was Stewart, right.

01:16:26.600 - 01:16:44.780

And it had a snow in Camp Stewart, and all the pipes burst, and all the guys had to sleep in the barracks without heat. And he got very, very sick. And I could tell you a story about that.

01:16:46.140 - 01:17:11.960

I couldn't get in touch with him. So I called the commanding officer's secretary and I said, "This is General somebody's secretary, and the general would like very much to speak with a young man named James Thames." And she put me with him, said, "He's in the hospital, but I'll put you with him."

01:17:11.960 - 01:17:34.300

And they never did know, but they never did know this was Mama talking to me. But I learned something by being in the service, that all you had to be was a general secretary and you could get anything, even though you had to lie about it. Tell me about your daughter.

01:17:35.700 - 01:18:15.200

Well, she's the one that still says that she was the tall turkey in the middle of the dancing school. She has been a very loving daughter, a wonderful daughter. She's married to a dentist down in Boca. I always wondered if she were gay, because she never, ever would wear a dress. So when she married this dentist, I said, "She did buy a dress, but we had

01:18:15.200 - 01:18:43.400

to go to San Francisco to buy it because we couldn't find anything but frills here." We bought a very simple dress for her out there. Her stepson got married not too long the other day, and she still wore a suit. I said, "This is one time you're going to have to wear a dress." And she came home. She went out and bought a black, beautiful

01:18:43.580 - 01:19:12.840

suit, but it was pants still. So I never will see her in anything but pants. But believe you me, she's not gay. She's just a little on the mannish side. Do you have grandchildren? I have one, the youngest. I am a step-grandmother to this young man who is in New York. And

01:19:12.840 - 01:19:56.920

then my youngest son, the youngest child, has a twelve-year-old. He will be twelve May of the Second. He is another brilliant one. He must have taken from his uncle, Jim. But he gets nothing but As in school. He is taller than I am, which he must be about—he will be twelve and he's five-ten now, and a very polite young man. But the children had to

01:19:56.920 - 01:20:20.240

be polite when they were overseas, because they couldn't act up in the officers' club. They better not. Are your children aware of what you did as a WASP? Well, now they are, because I took my daughter out to Texas, out to Sweetwater.

01:20:22.520 - 01:20:35.080

I took my son to Sweetwater, but I took my daughter to the—which is the one that was just before that. What convention? Washington, maybe?

01:20:35.080 - 01:20:44.180

My daughter went to Washington and also to Texas. Not Omaha, no. It was the last one in Texas. San Antonio?

01:20:44.600 - 01:20:58.320

Yes. I'm lost. And she found out about WASP, huh? Yes, she did.

01:20:58.840 - 01:21:35.820

And she thinks it's just wonderful. had the best time. I'm trying to remember which. But my youngest son went with me to Sweetwater, and that's where he really found out about the WASPs. I'll show you a picture in a minute. The girls from a bombing school right near Sweetwater—in fact, they are

01:21:35.940 - 01:22:02.900

the girls who are out over in the Middle East now. They said to him one night at a cocktail party that the Wasps had. They said they were going to fly over tomorrow. He couldn't believe that these three good-looking girls were the total drivers of the airplane

01:22:05.700 - 01:22:25.660

the next day. And so she said, "I'm going to tip my wings to you and say hi, Michael." And it was a very low, extremely low overcast. And that bomber came through, and when she tipped her wings, he said, "She waved at

01:22:25.660 - 01:22:42.740

me, Mother." And he's a grown man. He really thinks that girl waved at him. Somebody sent it to you, they printed it out and sent it to you?

01:22:42.900 - 01:22:50.740

Yeah. But I have this picture and all the story on our website. Great. So you can just turn on your computer.

01:22:51.320 - 01:23:00.680

I don't have a computer. Well, that's printed out from the original. We have a copy of that, but it's on our website. We're very proud of those girls.

01:23:01.340 - 01:23:09.240

I should say. Yeah. I'll tell you, you're being right. Tankers, now that's the one thing that I don't know whether it could have held steady enough

01:23:09.380 - 01:23:13.700

to -- Kelly: Right. [Laughter] Huddleston: It had to be awfully smooth.

01:23:14.160 - 01:23:32.400

Kelly: Okay. Let me ask you, Carol, of all the things you have done, and you've done a lot of things, of all the things you've done, what is the one thing that you're most proud of, besides having your family?

01:23:32.400 - 01:23:57.280

Levy: Well, I would say the flying part, because I really enjoyed even going through instructor school. And people say, "You're not an instructor." And I said, "Well, I've got my picture sitting there with all the guys who got through

01:23:57.600 - 01:24:16.760

instructor school." I do not remember the number of the class, but it is a long picture. It is here somewhere. I think that was one of the greatest things that we ever did, was to show that colonel

01:24:16.780 - 01:24:51.320

that we could pass that exam, get through flying school anyway. What is your opinion of Jacqueline Cochran and the WASP program? I think it was a great program. There were an awful lot of tales about Jackie, and I know the guys were scared to death of her. We went back to—we were in Montgomery at

01:24:51.320 - 01:25:24.800

Gunter. They didn't let us do anything for a while. We were at Gunter, but they didn't give us an assignment. And one day, this airplane like Jackie flew, tailed up into the flight line, and the CEO said, "Oh, my gosh." He said, "Jackie's here." Because they had called him from, they all knew what type of airplane she flew. So they were all down

01:25:24.840 - 01:25:58.700

on the flight line looking for who got out of that airplane. They were scared to death. So immediately we got assignments. That had scared them to death. Jackie was a very—although she was born right near where my husband was born, my first husband. She had to have a lot of grit, I'm telling you, a lot of pizzazz because of all

01:25:58.720 - 01:26:31.720

the things that she did. She worked it one way or another, and I think the school was a wonderful program. It sure gave a lot of girls a different outlook on life. Kelly: I know that we've told you about the people of Sweetwater and their intentions to build a museum to the WASP. These are not wealthy people, and yet they're sacrificing

01:26:31.960 - 01:26:52.000

to be able to do this. What would you like to say to those people? They never liked us. You don't have this on. Oh, okay. They never did like the wasps. We were always in their way. We used their legs. We went

01:26:52.040 - 01:27:30.540

out and we were bad girls. All of a sudden now, everybody has come to see about the wasps, come to light. It's all come to light. And I can't understand why they finally -- except it has brought them notoriety. If they wanted to build up the school or the town, it would be a wonderful thing for them. And I can't say more than the way that they had changed

01:27:30.540 - 01:27:53.380

an attitude. When we were out there for that meeting, it was unbelievable. They turned out en masse. The preachers, the lawyers, all the working people in town were ever so good to us. I mean, they couldn't do enough, but it was a far cry from the way it used to be.

01:27:56.120 - 01:28:13.580

Let me ask you, if you could say something to your great-grandchildren or children 50 years from now that might encourage them or motivate or inspire them, what would you like to say to them? You mean in the flying field?

01:28:14.080 - 01:28:35.460

No, not necessarily in the flying field. Just anything that you can say that might give them encouragement to do something special also, or to do their best? Just always be honest and cheerful, if possible.

01:28:36.820 - 01:29:01.600

But that's more, I think, to have an outlook, try to keep a good outlook on life. And they can accomplish anything they want to accomplish. Is there anything that I have left out that you would like to tell us about, or any part of your training, or any part of your married life that you would like to talk about?

01:29:02.840 - 01:29:28.440

I thought of something a while ago, but I cannot think of it now. You mentioned that your son's name was Timms. All my children were Timms. So the Miller, when did you get married again?

01:29:29.240 - 01:29:47.000

About three or four years after he died. And that was a very good marriage. I said, "I never did know you could have fun and be married." The first time, as it's always, children would go to school and work.

01:29:48.980 - 01:30:01.060

And then the second time, it was just nothing but fun. He had the greatest outlook on life of anybody I had ever seen. Is he still alive? No, he died.

01:30:03.080 - 01:30:25.380

So now you have just children and grandchildren left. I have a grandchild. I had my daughter's stepson just had a baby two days ago up at Lake Placid, New York. That has been the greatest.

01:30:26.450 - 01:31:00.140

They asked us if we would write a letter for this baby to open on her sixteenth birthday, which I had never heard of before. I said to her in the letter, "This is your great-grandmother on your father's side." I said, "The one rogue of the family." I just told her that I knew that she might be

01:31:00.300 - 01:31:25.900

following in my footsteps because she was a girl, a night fly. Apa yang Anda lakukan sekarang untuk menghabiskan waktu ini? Saya menemukan beberapa anjing yang berharga. Ceritakan. Selepas 25 tahun, saya berpikir, sepertinya itu si suami kedua saya.

01:31:28.920 - 01:32:17.060

Tidak, itu harusnya suami pertama. Sebelumnya, saya membangun Yorkshire Terriers. I don't know where's the second husband. Anyway, we lived in my old house. It was the big house we bought on the city block. You passed it today. It was just off the ocean. It was such a big one. I just started with these babies and it just grew and grew. I had more Yorkshire

01:32:17.060 - 01:32:47.500

Interior champions for the number of dogs that I had than most anybody I ever knew. They told me so, the other people, the judges. I'm trying to go back in there. What was the name of your first champion?

01:32:48.230 - 01:33:16.460

I want you to go upstairs and look in one of the rooms and you can see all my champions. His name was Flightpath. He came from the Flight Path Kennels over in London, or just south of London. Did you train them?

01:33:16.480 - 01:33:31.720

I trained them, groomed them. That's why I have arthritis in this hand today. They said, "You'll never see a Yorkshire Terrier breeder without a brush in her hand." Kelly: Wow.

01:33:33.480 - 01:33:49.020

I know that you're living on a golf course, so you must have had another love of— Lowry: I played golf all those years. And my young son is a very good golfer, excellent golfer. Kelly: Can you beat him?

01:33:49.940 - 01:34:05.100

Lowry: No, no way. He can hit farther than I can—put farther than I can drive. And I know, too, that you have another love about a hospital. Tell us how you're involved.

01:34:10.560 - 01:34:54.340

Just after I got married the second time, a member of our church, who was the CEO of the hospital asked me if I would be on the board. I said, "No, I have had enough of work in my life." I wouldn't accept. Then finally I got talked into it. Then they can't get rid of me now, except I did resign because I spent 32 years on that board. And that's

01:34:54.340 - 01:35:15.280

long enough somebody younger ought to be on the board. How has that hospital changed while you've been on that board? One time they added four new stories and they're fixing to enlarge it out into the river now, which is a big political mess in the city of Cocoa Beach right this minute, because

01:35:15.180 - 01:35:30.500

they don't want us to fill any part of the river. But we owned 110 acres at one time, and under the river. And we could have filled the entire amount,

01:35:30.740 - 01:35:42.960

but the city doesn't want us to just fill in the edges to straighten out the line. The hospital sits right out in the Banana River, on field land.

01:35:44.700 - 01:35:57.000

It's a little north of here. [ Inaudible ] >> Yeah, ordinarily on this particular day you would be at work, what would you be doing?

01:35:57.580 - 01:36:13.380

>> I would be on the seventh floor and I go from room to room to ask how they are, the patients, to see if there's anything I can do for them. And it's amazing how they want to talk

01:36:13.380 - 01:36:33.600

and they need somebody to talk with. Because I get there at 8 o'clock and visitors' hours don't start until later. And they all have something to say, men more so than women. But I went into a Marine's room the other day and he was watching TV,

01:36:33.600 - 01:36:46.780

had the TV blasted all over the hospital. And he kept on and I said, "You know, one time I was in the service." And he just didn't want to let me go. But the guys are that way, that they want to talk.

01:36:48.120 - 01:37:05.160

And it's very rewarding because we have a gorgeous hospital that's built, I'll say, right out in the river. And you can see the port from there. And the ships are always coming and going out from the port.

01:37:13.780 - 01:37:29.040

Besides that, every other week I take a complete inventory of that seventh floor. Do you wear a uniform? Yes. I belong as an auxilian.

01:37:30.130 - 01:37:55.720

I wear the pink uniform with the white shirts. I take the newspapers. That's a good way that I have of addressing them at first. I was real unable to start a conversation most of the time because they'd say that

01:37:55.740 - 01:38:18.500

they didn't have anything, they didn't want anything, everything was fine. But I changed the blinds so much because we have such a glare in the hospital sitting out when the sun's out. But they start talking and then they just, even the women sometimes will talk you to

01:38:18.620 - 01:38:42.160

death. But they'll need water, they'll need coffee, they need something all the time and that's what I do is just make them comfortable except when I'm taking that inventory. And that's that is one of the most difficult things I ever did because

01:38:42.820 - 01:39:01.600

people are always changing chairs, changing beds, and they have to know where the beds and chairs, mainly the chairs. They get a lot of company, they go into somebody's room and take their chairs out. And the nurses will start looking for something and they can't find it.

01:39:04.860 - 01:39:15.580

With that inventory they can find it. Have you ever been honored as a WASP? In the hospital? No, any place.

01:39:16.120 - 01:39:42.900

I know not too long ago you went to something with the WASP, when you signed all the autographs, when you were autographing posters. Well, not just this minute, I can't think. But I did make a speech on the eighth grade at the school.

01:39:43.340 - 01:40:09.360

How was that received? Oh, they loved it. They just loved it. The kids just thought that was the greatest thing in the world. And now, my grandson is a sea cadet. He wants to be, but I don't know whether it's a ship. I don't think it's a flying. It's a ship. And I made a speech at Kiwanis over in Cocoa one time with regard to the WASP.

01:40:10.460 - 01:40:21.340

It's always very well received, any kind of a speech, because they don't know anything about them. That's great. What do you feel the legacy of the WASP will be?

01:40:23.640 - 01:40:44.440

I really just can't say. Well, it's just the only thing that—you know that that's the—I have no idea that they will ever put us—except they have already put women back flying. But they are the reason that the women -- and they acknowledge the fact that, in fact, when

01:40:44.500 - 01:41:07.900

we were out at that flyover, when we were out in Texas, where the first wasp got killed, that the young girl sat there and cried. And she said, "If it hadn't been for you all," she said, "we would have never, ever made it."

01:41:07.900 - 01:41:29.900

it would be accepted now. And I think that that's one of the great things, one thing great about the WASPs. That's quite a legacy. I know recently the Dedalians are accepting WASPs into the organization. How does it feel to be able to be a Dedalian?

01:41:31.700 - 01:41:58.800

I think it's quite an honor because I have taken the number of a Miller, a Galen Miller, who was highly decorated in World War I. Since he has died, I can take his number. It's a Miller though. I don't know about any Tims. Have you attended any of their meetings?

01:41:59.460 - 01:42:26.660

I was only one because I had been accepted into the National Unit about a month previously. They were very, very nice. Of course, I knew a lot of the officers out there, the old retired officers. I've lived here fifty years.

01:42:27.460 - 01:42:32.100

Fifty? Yeah. Actually, fifty-two. Wow.

01:42:32.140 - 01:42:43.240

We came here in '51. Wow. Carolyn, what do you think your legacy will be? When you say legacy, exactly what do you mean?

01:42:43.600 - 01:43:00.800

What will you be most remembered for? My mouth, by the hospital, by the board members. I'm the only woman on the board, and I don't take any guff from them. >> How big is that board?

01:43:01.280 - 01:43:20.720

>> It's about 16 members now. >> Good for you. >> And there are doctors and more doctors, and real estate men, a lawyer. >> What do you think you learned from the WASP, from being a WASP?

01:43:20.860 - 01:43:43.860

Well, I think it gives me a lot of confidence, more speaking confidence, except you can't tell it in this conversation. I lost a lot of memory when I was down out so long. And they say that that memory may come back.

01:43:43.940 - 01:43:59.120

In fact, the doctor's wife did tell me that it would come back about, you said you can't expect it to come back within a year, but she said it will gradually come back. This was when you had your fall? Yeah.

01:44:00.460 - 01:44:21.000

And I was out for over a week. Wow. And this doctor's wife is also a physical therapist, has her own office. My old neighbor right across the street, he's a surgeon and she was a physical therapist.

01:44:22.540 - 01:44:39.880

But she said she knows more about it, I think, than he does. Doctors' wives always know a lot. I remember my grandmother could doctor as well as my grandfather could. Did your grandfather ever take you with him on any of his—when he was going to see patients

01:44:40.040 - 01:44:55.320

out in the country? Steele: Oh, yes, he certainly did. He had access to every pond in the county. My mother had known that we were up to our yin-yings and that there were alligator-infested

01:44:55.620 - 01:45:25.960

waters. were back in those days, there were alligators plus, and of course a lot of fish then, too. But we just fished with poles. I went to a lot of calls with him out at the turpentine camps. Florida, Perry, was the biggest cypress country in the world, had the biggest cypress

01:45:25.960 - 01:46:02.680

mill in the world. So there are tons of cypress trees, and you know the cypress only grows out of water. A lot of the sawmill people were patients of his, and he knew he'd never get paid. He would never, ever done a patient. If they didn't pay him, he didn't say anything about it. So he was a wonderful, wonderful doctor.

01:46:03.680 - 01:46:32.980

Would he sometimes get paid in vegetables? Absolutely. We had a smokehouse outside of our house between us and the Baptist Church. And that kept us -- it was always full of venison or beef, hams. So we ate well, although there was no -- back then there was no money. Very little, very few people had any money.

01:46:33.760 - 01:46:53.900

I mean, big -- it was known as big money, which wasn't anything compared to today. But wonderful man. He was really a country doctor. Yes, he was.

01:46:56.280 - 01:47:14.240

What killed him was going out in the middle of the night in a rainstorm in a Model T Ford and getting soaked. He had pneumonia, caught pneumonia when he was out with this sawmill person that never paid him.

01:47:16.500 - 01:47:36.520

Back then we didn't have—what was the name of the— Penicillin? We didn't have penicillin then. He just died because we didn't have—I mean, it was just before penicillin was discovered.

01:47:38.340 - 01:47:56.620

In fact, I think it was discovered when we lived in Atlanta. Don't you know he'd be proud of you volunteering in a hospital? Well, I'm sure he would. He didn't get a chance to work in a hospital, because I don't think that—Perry didn't

01:47:56.680 - 01:48:07.780

have a hospital at the time. They were just country doctors. Do you have anything? No, I keep thinking that they should have named something after him, in Perry.

01:48:09.180 - 01:48:53.680

Levy: Well, the people who remember him, actually the judge's kids did more than the doctor's kids did. My cousin was the head of the school. They have canceled the job now, but they are going to bring it back." And I can't think what the name of it was. He was head of all the schools and colleges in Florida. They had a group that made the decisions for all

01:48:53.700 - 01:49:21.040

the colleges. Man, he was head of that for years and years, until we got a Republican Governor in, Governor Kirk, I can remember his name. But this was Broward Culpepper. Okay, is there anything else that you'd like to tell us, Carolyn? I got the wee-wee so bad I drank a ton.