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[ Music ] >> A message by Dr. Bruce W. Thielman. Can the dead speak to us? [ Music ]

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>> Let us continue in our worship by giving reverent attention to the reading of God's word as it is recorded in the second book of Kings, the 13th chapter beginning at the verse

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which is numbered 14. Let us be upstanding for the reading of the word. >> Now when Elisha had fallen sick with the illness of which he was to die, Joash, king of Israel, went down to him

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and wept before him crying, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen." And Elisha said to him, "Take a bow and arrows." So he took a bow and arrows.

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Then he said to the king of Israel, "Draw the bow," and he drew it. And Elisha laid his hands upon the king's hands and he said, "Open the window eastward," and he opened it.

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Then Elisha said, "Shoot," and he shot. And he said, "The Lord's arrow of victory, the arrow of victory over Syria. For you shall fight the Syrians in Aphek

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until you have made an end of them." And he said, "Take the arrows," and he took them. And he said to the king of Israel, "Strike the ground with them."

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And he struck three times and stopped. Then the man of God was angry with him and said, "You should have struck five or six times. Then you would have struck down Syria

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until you made an end of it. But now you will strike down Syria only three times." So Elisha died and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land

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in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried low, a marauding band was seen. And the man was cast into the grave of Elisha.

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And as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood on his feet. And may God bless to us and to our understanding. This reading from his holy word.

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You may be seated. Let us pray. In the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

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I would like to begin this morning by sharing with you a story. A true story. And a story which happened right here in the Glendale Presbyterian Church. About seven years ago, one of the fine Christian ladies of this congregation,

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recognizing that she was coming to the end of her life, wrote a will in which she was anxious to express her dedication to Christ as much in her dying as she had been anxious to show her dedication to Christ in all of her living. Very specifically in this will, she left to the Glendale Presbyterian Church for its work.

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$175,000. Now, unfortunately, at the time when this lady died, very shortly after the will was executed, we did not have any type of program designed to assist our membership in the preparation of wills to accomplish those kinds of goals.

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We did not have the counseling service and the expertise available to help people prepare to honor Christ in such a way. And so as a result of the way in which this will was drawn and certain other factors which have since entered into the question, the will has been in a process of litigation

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for seven years. And the costs of that litigation, together with other factors that have entered in, have reduced the value of the bequest approximately $125,000. To this degree, then, this fine lady's wishes have been frustrated.

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And to this degree, the ministry of Christ through this church has been limited. Now, this instance is just one of the reasons why we have proceeded to establish a Glendale Presbyterian Church endowment fund. You received information concerning this new program through the mail this week.

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If you did not receive it through the mail, you may procure it from anyone who is standing at the door as you leave. There will be representatives of the committee there with the material if you would like to see it. And it would be of interest, I am sure, to those of other congregations as

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well as those who are members of this congregation. This program was carefully reviewed by the session on two different occasions and now is presented to you in an effort to make it easier for the members of our church to demonstrate their faithfulness as they go into the kingdom of heaven, even as they have

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demonstrated their faithfulness as they have been a part of the kingdom of Christ in the earthly experience. Now, in order to educate you more concerning this, Mr. Richard Morrow, who is the chairman of the endowment committee, called me and asked me

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if I would talk with you about the influence of posthumous giving. That's a very impressive phrase, and I had to translate it into something a little simpler for me to understand. For me, it came out something like this.

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Can the dead speak to us? Now, when I ask that question, I'm not referring to ghosts and spiritualists and mediums and Ouija boards. I'm asking, is it possible for us to praise Christ with our living, for us to praise

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Christ in our dying? And going beyond that, is it possible for us to so live now that after we have gone, we will have left behind what Tacitus calls a very happy memory of ourselves? When I went to the scripture to explore this theme, I discovered a great amount in the

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word of God which directly pertains to it. The scripture which I just read in your hearing is about a single illustration. Elisha was a strong and a dynamic prophet of God, that scene with the king in which he chides the king for not being aggressive enough in the advance of his faith was typical

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of him. But he came to the end of his days and he died and he was buried. Now, sometime afterwards, we don't know how long, but sometimes afterwards, another funeral was being conducted in the same cemetery in which Elisha was buried.

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And a group of marauding Moabites from a neighboring country saw this funeral and began to attack. The people fled for their lives, but they did not want to leave the body in a position where it could be dishonored by the Moabites.

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So because Elisha's tomb was not finished, they simply quickly put the body into Elisha's tomb and then fled away. But an interesting thing happened. The moment the body of this dead man touched the bones of Elisha, he immediately was

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revived to life again. And this man had new power and new vitality and went on to live once more. Now, that's an extraordinary miracle, to say the least. I don't want to discuss it this morning, except to affirm it as part of the testimony

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of the word of God. But it seems to me to be a picture of what we see every day if we're sensitive to it. How many times do we reach out and touch the bones, touch the lives, touch the teaching and the example of those who have died and gone from amongst us, but we in

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memory go back and touch again, claim again something which they did or said or gave. And when we touch it, we gain new life and new strength and new power just from the act of remembering. Just from claiming once more, which they either tangibly or intangibly left to us.

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We sang about this this morning, a few minutes ago, we sang "Faith of our fathers living still." And there are times when we lay hands on that faith and gain new life from the doing of it. So I would answer the question, can the dead speak to us with a very clear yes?

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And I'm, of course, not referring to spirit wraps on tables or bodies appearing at the command of mediums. The Bible condemns that kind of thing. It certainly has no place in the fellowship of believers.

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I'm speaking instead of the kind of living which is testified to by the author of Hebrews, when he says of Abel, "He being dead yet speaketh." The example of Abel, so noble, so soul uplifting, so heart encouraging, that when we think of Abel, we are still addressed by him and blessed by his very memory and example.

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Or I'm thinking of that which Jesus acknowledged in the experience in which the woman came and anointed his feet with a costly oil. And some of the disciples questioned the expenditure of the money on this oil and said it should have been used for other purpose.

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Jesus commented about that, but then he went on to utter these very significant words. He said, "Wherever the gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman hath done will be told as a memorial to her."

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And here we are, 20 centuries after the event, remembering what she did. And hundreds of thousands have done this before us and hundreds of thousands will do this after us. She is dead.

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We don't even remember her name. No man knows it. But she is still speaking by what she did. For Christians, you see, life is all one piece.

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Part of it is lived here and part of it is lived hereafter. Part of it is an earthly experience and part of it is a heavenly experience, but it is one life. So that in a very real sense, when we are in this life, we can speak to men and to

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angels. When we are in the life which is to come, the other part of the life which we are now enjoying, then too we will speak to angels and to men because of the example, the influence, that which we have left behind.

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Dead, we will still be speaking. And this is what John means when he says in Revelation and the words ring with tremendous impact. "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord.

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Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, for their works do follow them." I was quite surprised to discover that even our federal government recognizes the validity of the fact that the dead can speak to us very eloquently.

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I learned of a Presbyterian elder here in California, for example, who on his retirement received a block of stock in the company for which he had labored for so many years. He took that stock and immediately gave it to the endowment program of his church

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with the condition that the income from the stock would continue to come to him and to his wife for as long as he lived. Now it's interesting to observe what benefits this had for him. First of all, by giving the stock immediately to the endowment fund, he lost

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all capital gain tax liability. Secondly, he was able to spread the gift across his giving for the next five years as an income tax deduction. And then, because the endowment of the church program was better than his own

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investment policies, he doubled the yield on the investment. And then beyond that, he had the satisfaction of knowing that when he and his wife were gone, the income from that money in perpetuity would continue to go toward the support of his church and also, by his choice, toward the support of a

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Christian college, which meant a great deal to him. Now, why does the federal government provide certain benefits to individuals who enter into programs of this kind? Simply because the government recognizes that when good people do good things with

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their funds, those good things benefit all society and therefore society should erect a structure in which those things could be done and encouraged with some benefit. And I appreciate that. There used to be an economist in England by the name of Jeremy Bentham, and he was

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very interested in a hospital in London. He was on the board and he was involved in its work for many years and he died. And when he died, he left his entire estate to the support of that hospital. But he attached a string to it.

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He said in order for them to have the money, they would have to take his skeleton, dry it, clothe it, put a hat on its head, fasten it to a chair, put it on a wooden platform, and wheel it up to the director's table for every meeting of the board of directors of that hospital.

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And for over 100 years now, when the minutes of the meeting of the board of that hospital are read, the secretary, with a respectful nod toward the remains of Jeremy Bentham, notes, "Jeremy Bentham present, but not voting." Now, there's a certain sense in which I think that's unfair to old Jeremy, because

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old Jeremy is voting. He invested his life in that hospital. The fortune that he gave to that hospital changed the whole course of the life of that hospital and consequently gave life to many who came there to be healed.

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There's a very real sense in which Jeremy Bentham is living still and is speaking still and is voting still. By his influence, we can almost say that you can touch the bones of Jeremy, and many have, in a sense, and gained life from those bones, just like this man touched

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the bones of Elisha a long time ago. He's dead, yes, but he's still speaking. Now, when you recognize that the dead can still speak to us, you are immediately confronted with another question.

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And that question is this, are we listening to them? Are we listening to what they say? Is their counsel being heeded? As I examined my own experience, it came home to me that in the last few weeks, I've

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been listening a great deal to the voices of my two grandmothers. My one grandmother, who died when she was 89, was very interested in politics. She was right up to her head, only her head was about that high, right up to her head in the activities of her political party.

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And she used to say to me, "The ship of state must be made to sail a straight course." She was particularly concerned about any chicanery, any deceit, any dishonesty in government.

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Now, there have been times in the last few weeks when all this mess in Washington has been spilled out over us, when I've wanted to say, "No more. I can't stand to hear any more about it. I don't understand it.

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It's becoming too confusing to me. I can't keep the incident straight or the name straight. I don't want to hear any more about it. Let's just pretend it didn't happen and go on."

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I've been very tempted to do that. And every time I am, I hear my grandmother saying, "The ship of state must be made to sail a straight course." And so I try once again to be a responsible citizen.

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She's dead, but she's still speaking to me. And I've been thinking a lot about my other grandmother, too. I have a very difficult problem in my own personal life with regard to the expression of love.

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It's very easy for me to stand in this pulpit and to feel and to know and to talk about a love for all of you. I've recently returned from vacation and I couldn't wait to be with you. I've told you before, I've never met a fellowship of people to whom I felt more

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attached than this one. There's a certain sense in which that's very easy. What is hard for me is to enter into deep intimacies with individuals. People sometimes encounter me and go away feeling I'm very cold, heartless,

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professional, not sufficiently sensitive, overbearing, domineering. And I'm sure those things are true. But how do you go about building into yourself when you're 40 years of age an ability to love in singularity?

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I was reading a letter which my grandmother wrote to me when I was in Scotland doing graduate work a long time ago. And the conclusion of the letter she wrote, "I have for you all the love one heart can hold."

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That was true. That was very true. She couldn't have loved me any more than she did. But how did she do that?

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How much love can a heart hold? And how do you learn how to express that? Or better, how do you learn how to accept that? I've been thinking a lot about her.

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She's dead, but she's still speaking to me. In the course of this last week, I've been thinking a lot about the Tropico Presbyterian Church. I never saw that church.

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That church was gone from Glendale before I ever got here. It merged with this congregation some years ago. I don't know how many. What I know about that church, I know from a few people who are part of our

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fellowship now who were part of that fellowship then. Why was I thinking about Tropico this last week? Because after my sermon of last Sunday in which I talked about certain things in our denomination which concern me, someone asked me, "What can we do about that?"

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And I said, "Well, the best thing we can do about that is send the finest young men and women we have into church occupation to change things." And that costs money. That kind of education costs money.

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So we contribute toward the support of our young people who want to move in that direction. And much of the money which we give is out of a trust fund established by that Tropico Presbyterian Church.

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We ordained three young men to the ministry here in June. All three of them had been educated in part by what that church established a long time ago, long before I ever thought of so influencing the denomination. They had already thought it and established the fund which exists to this

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day and is still at work. As a congregation, they are gone. But they are still speaking. Now, we have a tendency when we go back into history to hear the Council of the

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Saints, to think of the greats, you know, Luther and Joan of Arc and Calvin. I'm not talking about those kind of people this morning. I'm talking about very simple, uneducated people like my grandmothers. I'm talking about little congregations like the Tropico Presbyterian Church.

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When we think about the greats, we tend to excuse ourselves. But when we recognize that these people spoke, then I can say to you, as I say to myself, are we listening? As they're speaking still.

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One of the greatest joys I've had in the last year was to meet Mr. John Wallace. Now, John Wallace is 75 years old, a sprightly little guy, bounces around a lot of vim and vigor, little white beard, goatee and mustache.

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And he's the most noted artist in the area of stained glass in California today, and one of the most noted in all the world. And I was talking with him about the windows for our new building. And very specifically, I was concerned about the big window, which is going to be

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at the back of the sanctuary over the balcony. It's about 40 feet high, and it's the window you'll see as you'll go out. And sitting at the feet of this man who's taught and studied in Europe and who's on the faculty at UCLA and teaches about stained glass art there, sitting at the feet

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of this man and listening to him talk, he tried to elicit from me what I thought should be in that window. And I said, "I think it should be something that talks about the family of God, the family of God going out into the world so that as our people go out into the world,

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they'll be thinking that they're part of God's family and that the task rests for the whole family to be involved in." And his eyes lighted up. He said, "That's a great idea."

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He said, "I can see hands, black hands and brown hands and yellow hands and white hands and red hands, hands representing all the different colors of Christians. And the hands are joined and the hands are lifted up to God. And some are reaching out and healing and some are reaching out and teaching and

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some are reaching out and baptizing and some are reaching out and preaching and some are guiding. And these hands move out across the earth into all different climes and all different places.

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And it's a great big, swirling mass of hands." And as he talked, the idea of this somehow got through to me and I got caught up in it. He said, "It must be a great symbol, one great symbol which fills the window from

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the top to the bottom, a symbol that's as great as the idea and as great as the family of God. And when people look at it, they'll be awed by it and thrilled by it to think that they're a part of it."

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And he said, "As those hands go up, they must become brighter and brighter and clearer and clearer, stained with the white radiance of eternity," was the phrase he used. He quotes the poets a great deal in his speech.

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And when they get to the very top, he said, "They will be pure because those are the hands of those who have gone before us into the kingdom of heaven and their hands are at work in the family's ministry still." It was all I could do to keep from crying.

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To have this 75-year-old saint talking about the hands that have already gone on but are still part of the family, still reaching out in a variety of different ways, and I thought to myself as he spelled this out to me, I thought of the words that we sang just a little while ago, "Falls on the ear their distant

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triumph song and arms are strong and hearts are brave again." And I thought to myself too, "Am I clasping those hands often enough? Are we listening?" And just one other thought, recognizing that the dead can speak to us and we

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ought to be listening to them, ask yourself this as I have asked myself this, "What are we doing to prepare the message which we will leave behind after we are gone?" Scripture has a great deal to say about this.

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In the book of Numbers, it even tells you how to write a will. I never knew that until I looked it up last week, but sure enough, it's there. And then there are the great words of Peter. Peter has come to the end of his life and he's speaking to those who are very

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close to him and he talks to them of godliness and affection and zeal and endurance, steadfastness, and then he says at the end of this long catalog of things, "I intend always to remind you of these things, though you know them and are already established in the truth that you have.

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I think it right so long as I am in this body to arouse you by one way or another of reminder, since I know that soon I will be putting off this body. I have been told this by the Lord Jesus Christ." And then continuing, Peter, writing in his second epistle, says, "I am going to

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see to it now that after my departure, you may be able at any time to recall these things." He was preparing then, you see, for the message that would be remembered after he was gone.

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Are we preparing? Now, some people, of course, think it's morbid to even talk about what's going to happen after you die. I don't feel that way.

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It's surprising to me that some people who are going away on a three-week vacation will cut off the newspaper and make arrangements for the mail to be picked up, have someone mow the lawn, make sure that it's watered and things are taken care of at the house.

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Yet, having made those preparations for a three-week vacation, they'll make no preparations at all when they go off for all eternity. There's a strange confusion of values in that, isn't there? Sixty percent of the Christians that are in the United Presbyterian Church today

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have, by pretty accurate estimation, never bothered to write a will. It's interesting to know why people don't write wills. Some don't write them because they think only rich people should write wills, which is silly, of course.

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If you have anything at all, when you die, you're going to leave it. And why should only the rich man have the right to say what's done with it? Shouldn't you have that right, no matter how great or small what you leave behind is?

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Are you going to lay that prerogative aside? Some people don't want to talk about wills because they think talking about your will makes you die sooner. Of course, that's just superstition.

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If it does anything, it's the opposite. Because when you've prepared, you're satisfied with what you have done, and satisfaction eases tension, and eased tension will help you live longer, not shorter.

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And some people think it's expensive. It's not expensive to draw a will at all. Most lawyers even have cut rates if a husband and wife both write their wills at the same time.

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And they ought to have separate wills because sometimes, having lived together, they also go together in the same automobile accident or something of that kind. There ought to be two wills in every family.

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And some people say, "Well, there's no reason to hurry about it." Most of the people who die without a will said that at one time or another. No reason to hurry about it. They forget that you don't write a will for your own benefit.

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You write the will for the benefit of the people that are left behind. How can any Christian think about going off into eternity without wanting to leave one last written testimony to his confidence in Jesus Christ? That ought to be a part of every Christian will, an affirmation of faith

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in Christ and the why of it. What Christian would want to go off without providing for his loved ones, making sure that they will be taken care of at least to the degree that he is able to do that?

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What Christian would want to go off without spelling out the details of his own funeral? "Oh, I've seen Christian families do some of the most ridiculous and foolish things.

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And I've seen unchristian families do pagan things." When another Christian has gone on, they don't even know how to deal with having a Christian funeral. It's a testimony to be able to say, "This is the way I want to go off to meet my

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Lord. This is the way what I leave behind is to be taken care of." And what Christian would want to go off without having the opportunity to be as good a steward in his dying as he was in his living?

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I think to the degree that we are able that a tithe at least of every estate should be given to the continuing work of Christ in one way or another. That's one of the reasons we've established this endowment program, to make it easier for people to do that.

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Well, that's all I have to say this morning, I guess. There is one incident that happened to me two weeks ago, though, that might seal this testimony. I was up at Mount Hermon and I was conducting a preaching mission for a

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church there. And there was a very fine fellow there who was the soloist. He was singing the whole weekend through and he sang beautifully. And as the weekend went along, I noticed a deepening seriousness in him.

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Until finally, at the end of my last sermon, the fifth message, I looked down and he was sitting right in the front row, the center seat right there. And he was weeping. I had to talk to some other people before I could talk to him.

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By the time I got to talk to him, his wife was there, she had her arms around him, and his two little boys were there. They didn't understand what was going on, but they were respectful of that moment because they knew it was an important one for their daddy.

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He'd been a Christian for a long time. This was not a conversion experience. But God was dealing with him in a very, very significant way that weekend. I talked to him at some length about it.

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And in the testimony that he offered about what had been happening that weekend, he said something I haven't been able to forget. He told me of how, during the times when he had been sitting under the preaching, there were times when he didn't hear a word I said, that his mind went off and

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claimed again the memories of his mother. His mother was a fine Christian woman. She raised three sons, two went into the ministry, and this man was her oldest son.

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He is in business, but has a strong Christian testimony and sings to the glory of Christ everywhere he has opportunity. And he told me of all the things which she had taught him across the years, and somehow he heard her again and again in the course of that weekend.

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She had a long and a very difficult death from cancer. And all that time she held close to Christ. And the memory of that held her very close to him. So that sitting there in the midst of that group of believers, under the true

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preaching of the word, the Holy Spirit added to these things, the words, the example, the influence, the testimony, the faithfulness of one who is now dead for six years. But was still speaking, still speaking.

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And when he told me of this, I was so moved by it that I can't forget it. And every time I'll hear him sing, I'll not only hear him, but also the voice of his mother. For when those barriers were breaking down inside of him and those log jams

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were being torn apart and the walls were coming down and the windows and the doors of his experience were being opened in new ways by the God dealing with him, it was his mother who had the influence, had prepared her testimony, had sowed the seed.

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It meant so much to me that I wanted you to hear him sing too. So I invited Ron Westgate to come this morning and to sing. Listen, tell me who you hear. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a soul like me.

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I once was lost, but now I'm found. Was blind, but now I see. Through many dangers, toils and snares, I have already come. His grace has brought me safe thus far, and grace will lead me home.

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When we've been there ten thousand years, bright shining as the sun, we've no less days to sing God's praise than when we first begun. Let us pray. Our Father God, the words of thy servant, the Apostle Paul, are much in our hearts at

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this moment. He is dead, but he speaks to us. None of us lives to himself, he wrote, and none of us dies to himself. If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord.

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So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end, Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. O Christ, be our Lord in our living and our dying.

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And O Christ, grant that the message, "We live and leave," might always honor thee. Amen. [ ways to get the book on sale ]