00:00:02.260 - 00:00:14.460

Kleinecke and I were the last two to arrive at Altus. She was already there. She was already there. Rose Palmer, do you know Rose?

00:00:15.680 - 00:00:20.540

Rose was at Altus. She was in her class. No, I don't think Rose was at Altus. No. Oh, she wasn't at Altus?

00:00:20.540 - 00:00:40.660

No, it was Ruth Wheeler from Dallas. Ruth Hegman Wheeler. Have you interviewed her? in Dallas. And then, um, LaNita Paul, Pat Hiller, and Ruth, as well as class, as Wings,

00:00:40.960 - 00:00:47.540

Wasp Wings on the wall. Right, and they made her stay. And they had to, they had to stay, she and And paint it over or clean it off.

00:00:47.540 - 00:00:53.040

The other girl had to stay there and clean it up before. Yes. They did it with charcoal. Right, yeah.

00:00:53.100 - 00:01:02.460

And they made What was that girl's name that painted that? That's okay. I've got it, it's in there on the back of that picture. I've got it in Teresa's interview because she talked to you about it.

00:01:02.460 - 00:01:09.520

She told you about that. She told us about it, absolutely. They had to stay and clean that up. But imagine what that story would be.

00:01:09.640 - 00:01:15.280

Oh Lord, the wings were like this. And this great big Fiefanella. We had a party. Do you have a picture of that?

00:01:16.220 - 00:01:29.640

No, no. We had a party the night, it was kind of a farewell party, and we had most of the guys that we flew base flight pilots over, and we fixed fried chicken. I remember I fried fried chicken.

00:01:29.700 - 00:01:42.800

It was the only thing I really knew how to do, and we bought a bunch of chicken with the BX. And I made fried chicken. And somebody else was making mashed potatoes, and we had a Southern fried chicken dinner

00:01:42.850 - 00:01:56.180

for those guys. who stayed in and joined the military. One of the girls did. I'll have to get that picture and look at it again.

00:01:58.620 - 00:02:09.620

Kay left and went on back home to Fort Worth, where she's back with Gunners. I think she's still down there, but nobody ever hears from her. She and I were in the same class. What's your last name?

00:02:09.640 - 00:02:24.240

Kay Kleinecke. That doesn't sound familiar. I'm almost to the point now that if Nancy calls down and says, "Just got an email from somebody whose mother was a WASP," I'll say, "What's her name?"

00:02:24.580 - 00:02:34.580

You know, I've known a lot of them too. Yeah, well, and I can almost know that I've worked with it. You ready to go? I'm ready to go.

00:02:34.680 - 00:02:39.800

Okay. Okay, Betty, what we're going to do, I'm going to start out and I'll— I had a two WASP. I said, "What for?

00:02:39.940 - 00:02:48.060

What did we do?" I said, "Well, you used up all the hot water in England." And she says, "When we came in, we couldn't take a shower 'cause there wasn't any hot water."

00:02:48.060 - 00:02:57.460

And I said, "No, wait a minute, it wasn't the WASP." I said, "You're talking about the ATA girls that went over there with the Ferry Command." I said, "They were not WASP.

00:02:57.600 - 00:03:07.480

None of the WASP went overseas." And she says, "Oh." She says, "Well, I need to apologize then." She says, "I've been mad at the WASP for years

00:03:07.540 - 00:03:14.460

for using up all the hot water." (laughing) Oh, they should have been thankful those girls were there helping us. Yes, I have.

00:03:14.730 - 00:03:23.380

Okay. I'm Deanie Parrish. We're in the home of Betty Riddle in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She was a WASP, Class 44-9.

00:03:24.140 - 00:03:32.340

Today is the 11th of July, 2001. Okay, Betty. Well. Tell us who you are and when and where you were born.

00:03:32.540 - 00:03:48.880

Well, I'm Betty Riddle, as you said. I was born Betty Farrell Martin, M-A-R-T-I-N. I was born in Wetumpka, Oklahoma, and I was born on December 23, 1923, two days before Christmas.

00:03:52.500 - 00:04:14.160

My father was Clarence Martin and my mother was Goldie Mae Crawford. Tell me your earliest remembrances of your parents. Where were you living? We were living in Wetumpka, and my very earliest remembrance—that takes some thinking.

00:04:15.940 - 00:04:29.520

Some of the earliest memories when I was—remembrances are back with watching my father build an airplane. He built an airplane from blueprints when I was about five and six—between five and eight years old.

00:04:30.320 - 00:04:40.760

I used to stand at his knee and watch him sand the wooden grommets that went on the ribs. Was this a model airplane? No, this was an airplane that actually flew.

00:04:40.760 - 00:05:04.180

It was a one-seat Heath parasol, powered by a Henderson motorcycle engine, and had bicycle wheels for landing gears. It was very small, and it flew. He flew it for a year or so.

00:05:04.280 - 00:05:21.060

He did not fly it himself, because at the time he was not a pilot. He taxied it around the field, but he did not fly it himself. That airplane had an untimely demise when his friend was flying it. He came in for a landing.

00:05:22.540 - 00:05:38.860

This was a cow pasture they were flying it from. A cow ran in front of him, and because it had no brakes, he hit it. The airplane was then sold to a movie company, and they had to kill the cow, and it was given to the needy.

00:05:39.000 - 00:05:55.900

"Mama wouldn't touch the meat from it," she said. But that was one of those—during that time was probably the earliest. But that also stemmed my desire to want to fly. When he was building this airplane, was it at an airport?

00:05:56.540 - 00:06:15.460

No. in a little house that sat beside of our house. And it was the house I was born in, and he moved it to one side and used it as a shop. And then he built another house, which is where we lived.

00:06:15.560 - 00:06:31.880

And that house was built when I was about three years old. So I lived in the same house until I left home. And that house still exists, and we tumpka too. Kelly: Was this house in the city, or were you out in the suburbs?

00:06:31.880 - 00:06:44.960

Beall: It was in the city. And in order to—my job back then was to be on my knees in the back of the car looking out the window, because we towed that airplane to this field when we flew it, when they flew it.

00:06:45.640 - 00:06:59.120

And I was to look out the back window and be sure that they did not hit anything with the wings, you know, like fence posts and telephone lines and posts and things like that. And so that's one of the early remembrances, too.

00:06:59.380 - 00:07:11.100

And what kind of car was this? Oh, Lord, I don't— Can you describe it? It was just four-door car, probably a Ford or a Chevy.

00:07:11.420 - 00:07:18.860

I don't know. Did you have siblings? Yes, I have two brothers. Where are they in relation to you?

00:07:19.160 - 00:07:31.160

Well, my brother Johnny was four and a half years younger than me, and my brother Jack was twelve years younger than me. Okay. So you were the only one there when he was building that airplane to be able to watch

00:07:31.260 - 00:07:40.120

it. What did your dad do? My dad was an automobile mechanic as well as a machinist, and he worked for oilfield equipment too.

00:07:40.740 - 00:07:51.620

He was an all-around mechanic. He worked on anything that needed repair, except for a watch. He said he would never work on a watch. His hands were too big.

00:07:53.750 - 00:08:12.960

What are your remembrances about starting school? Was your school near your home? It was about eight blocks away, and I remember going to grade school. Well, the school that I have an unusual background in as much as the grade school I went to burned

00:08:13.060 - 00:08:37.720

down when I was in fourth grade. And then the high school burned down when I was a freshman. So I wound up going to two new schools, but because the old ones burned, we had to go school in shops and churches, wherever they could put a classroom during the interim year

00:08:37.860 - 00:09:01.180

while they were building us new schools. Kelly: In elementary school, do you recall any of your teachers? My primary teacher, first-grade teacher, Miss Allen, and then fourth-grade teacher, I liked her well too, but I've forgotten her name.

00:09:02.550 - 00:09:16.480

Did they have an influence on your life? Yes, I think so. During grammar school, what did you enjoy about school? Did you love school?

00:09:19.470 - 00:09:33.800

Steele: Yeah, I think I enjoyed the friends, because I had girlfriends for the first time in my life. Because being with boys, the neighborhood was filled with boys and no girls. Levy: What did you do during the summer?

00:09:34.020 - 00:09:46.140

Did you go on vacations? Steele: No. We went to the lake. They had boats and motors, and they built motor race speed boats.

00:09:47.520 - 00:10:05.220

We usually went to the lakes and picnics. When there was an air show nearby, we would go there. Every time they would have some kind of an aviation activity, we usually would—he managed to find our way there.

00:10:07.480 - 00:10:18.800

We just visited relatives. On Sundays, we would go out to grandma's and have ice cream and cake. Tell me about your grandparents. They had a farm east of Wittonka.

00:10:18.800 - 00:10:37.760

What kind of farm? Well, they had cattle. They raised all kinds of corn and peanuts and cotton, until cotton became impossible because of the bull weevil.

00:10:37.920 - 00:10:46.980

He used to bring it to town. We lived near a cotton gin. So Grandpa would come by and we'd run out and get on the cotton and ride over to the gin and then walk home.

00:10:47.020 - 00:10:58.320

It was just a block away. So that I remember, too. On this cotton, was it a truck or was it a wagon? Wagon pulled by horses, horse-drawn wagon.

00:10:59.340 - 00:11:13.920

And Grandpa would bring the horses to town and bring his plow and everything, and he He would plow up a garden for Mama. So we made a garden every summer. Kelly: And your other grandparents, where did they live?

00:11:14.150 - 00:11:29.580

Steele: Well, my grandfather and Grandma Martin, my dad's parents, lived about three blocks east of where we lived. My grandfather was a butcher. I guess you would call it he had a livestock.

00:11:29.820 - 00:11:45.740

He had cows, and he would fatten them up and get them ready, and then butcher them and sell them to the markets. At one time, he owned a grocery store. My grandmother, before I was born, she operated a restaurant there in town.

00:11:47.480 - 00:12:04.660

They did a lot of moving around with their restaurants from place to place, because she fed the train crews in Oklahoma when they were building new railroads. That is what brought them to Wetumpka, was they were laying track and she fed the railroad crews.

00:12:05.700 - 00:12:21.480

Once they came to Wetumpka, they stayed there, though. What was the general thing that was done in Wetumpka? Was it a farming— There was an oil boomtown and then farming community.

00:12:22.260 - 00:12:40.380

There was a thriving oil wells and things there at first, but then that did not last very long. It was a very narrow vein of oil, but it was mostly farming. When I grew up, it was farming and just a rural community.

00:12:41.320 - 00:12:59.380

Now it is a ghost town, practically. Kelly: Would you ever go out to your grandparents on the farm and stay? Oh yes, I rode the school bus out and stayed with them a lot. Recall what you did, what you enjoyed doing out at that farm.

00:13:01.820 - 00:13:13.260

Oh, I liked to climb the trees. I used to pick the apples and picked peaches, and Grandma had quite an orchard. I just liked being out there. We used to chase the chickens.

00:13:19.560 - 00:13:30.160

You're not doing that, are you? What was your home like when you were growing up as a child? Christmas was always at my house. We were given a string of lights and we had electricity.

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Where were you at the time? We were at the farm. Tell me about your grandparents. Well, I was talking about Grandpa coming to town with the—

00:13:42.200 - 00:13:54.100

But I also told you without the camera that Grandpa did not get a tractor for the farm until after the war, his first tractor. So he did it all with a team of mules. Kelly: And the other grandparents?

00:13:54.410 - 00:14:13.800

Diven: Oh, now the other grandparents were, I told you about them. He was a cattle buyer. He bought cattle and then butchered them and furnished the local markets with meat. Then he put them on the back of a pickup truck and went around and sold fresh meat to the

00:14:13.900 - 00:14:25.500

housewives around town also. And then my grandmother, I said, ran a restaurant for the railroad workers. They were enterprising people. They did unusual things.

00:14:26.620 - 00:14:46.520

But I also must tell you this, that my grandfather Crawford's, the one, the farmer, his father was in the Oklahoma land run and bought or established a claim in Oklahoma near what is now the present, where the Capitol is. He was a horse dealer.

00:14:46.540 - 00:14:56.540

He sold everything. He bought and sold things. He was a great-grandfather. At one time, he had a cotton yard.

00:14:58.100 - 00:15:11.020

He also had a car dealership for a while. He just was in and out of businesses all the time. That was my grandfather. And Dad worked for him, and that's how he met my mother.

00:15:13.340 - 00:15:29.780

As a young child, Oklahoma is kind of famous for the Indians that lived in Oklahoma. Did you ever have any encounters or know about the Indians? Oh, our town had a lot of Indian people. They were customers of my father.

00:15:29.880 - 00:15:48.900

My father ran his own business, and so he had a lot of Indian customers. We had a large colored section in the town, too, and one of the colored school teachers used to bring their cars to my dad to be repaired also. Where did the Indian children go to school?

00:15:49.120 - 00:16:04.220

They went to school with us. They were in the same school system, but the colored people had their own school. But they went to school with us. As a young child, who were your playmates and what did you play?

00:16:05.040 - 00:16:25.000

Well, we played our version of baseball out in the street in front of the house. And then as much as I was the only girl in the neighborhood, I thought I was a boy too, so I played ball too. And we had, I don't know, we just sort of had makeshift toys.

00:16:26.160 - 00:16:31.940

Do you still have friends from childhood? Yes. You remain friends? Yes, I do.

00:16:32.200 - 00:16:46.440

In fact, this same block, the young man, a fellow that lives down the street, you ask about Indian, he's Creek Indian. He lives on this same block, across the street and down about four houses down. He and I lived two houses apart when we were growing up.

00:16:48.760 - 00:17:03.320

Then there is a high school friend who lives about five blocks from me that I still see. There's about two or three others in town that I have had contact with since I've moved back. So, yes.

00:17:03.800 - 00:17:15.980

Were the Indians given the same status as the white people in that town? Yes. That's great. Describe a typical Christmas when you were growing up.

00:17:16.680 - 00:17:33.840

Oh, that's where we were when we stopped. My aunt bought us a string of lights, so we used to have—we had Christmas at our house in town because we had electricity. But we always had Thanksgiving on the farm, so that was the two holidays.

00:17:34.480 - 00:17:53.440

And we always had Easter on the farm at Grandma's house, too. Describe a Thanksgiving at your grandmother's. Well, it was typical with Aunt Jewel from Oklahoma City would bring the turkey. And Mom would make certain things and bring to the meal, and Grandma would do others.

00:17:54.160 - 00:18:18.120

And Grandma had a wood stove, so everything was cooked on a wood stove. After the war, they had gas exploration on the farm, so then they tapped into the lines and were able to have a gas stove. And then they brought, REA brought electricity to the farm, so they had electricity then.

00:18:19.120 - 00:18:38.980

Would your other grandparents also come? No, no, they died when I was only, I think I was about four when my grandfather died and my father's father, and then when my father's mother died, I was about twelve. So they were never in the picture after that.

00:18:39.400 - 00:18:58.740

But we were close to that side of the family, though, because I have cousins here in Tulsa still that are family from the other side, from the Martin side. Now describe a typical Christmas at your house. Christmas at our house, well, it consisted of the turkey.

00:18:59.040 - 00:19:17.460

Aunt Drew brought the turkey again, and then we had the dinner. There might be several cousins and other family members, other than the immediate family, my grandma and grandpa. And Aunt Jule had no children, so she always came where we were.

00:19:19.700 - 00:19:29.000

It usually had twelve, thirteen people. Maybe had to set the table twice, because there were so many people. But it was always fun. And we opened packages.

00:19:29.420 - 00:19:37.580

Did you have a Christmas tree? We had a Christmas tree. It might be a cedar tree from out on the farm, but it was a Christmas tree. Describe the decorations.

00:19:38.920 - 00:19:54.820

They were glass, and we might have paper chains, might have popcorn, but it was usually pretty loaded with ornaments. But someone gave you a string of lights? An aunt in Oklahoma City, Aunt Nancy.

00:19:57.100 - 00:20:05.300

And you got to put those on the tree? We put those on the tree. We only had one tree, one string of lights, so it was only seven, but it was bright. It was pretty.

00:20:05.300 - 00:20:09.640

Where would you get the tree? Would you go out and chop it down? Yes. We'd go out on the farm and get it.

00:20:10.760 - 00:20:40.700

It was usually an Oklahoma cedar tree, and I'm allergic to them, so. As far as religious celebrations of Christmas, was your family involved in any way? We always had church programs, and I was in the Glee Club and I sang. My family did not attend Sunday school and church regularly.

00:20:40.900 - 00:21:02.620

My mother did more than my father, but Dad always had so much work to do that he used the quiet of Sunday morning at the shop with nobody around to finish up delicate projects. And then when we got involved with the airport, which was in 1939, then Sunday was a big day at the airport.

00:21:03.060 - 00:21:14.140

So there wasn't that much church attendance, but we were still involved. How were you involved with the airport? With the airport? I was the dispatcher.

00:21:14.220 - 00:21:29.860

I wrote out the clearances, and they had to take back during the war years when the airport left its home base. had to carry with them a paper clearance saying where they were going and when they were coming back.

00:21:31.440 - 00:21:45.840

That was my job. And answer the phone and do messages. I learned to drive at the airport on the runways. I soloed an airplane first, but then they found out they needed me to drive to get students

00:21:45.900 - 00:22:02.560

in town, so they took me out in the middle of the runway and taught me how to drive. Then they would only allow me to go to town, Parkhouse Side Street, but I could not drive back because the students, they would make the students drive back because I did not have enough experience.

00:22:05.000 - 00:22:22.780

Let's go back to elementary school. Did you stay at the same school then when you went into junior high school? We did not have a junior high. It was the primary through eighth grade at the same building, Central High School in

00:22:22.840 - 00:22:38.680

Wetumpka. What were your ambitions when you were in elementary up through eighth grade? I always wanted to learn to fly. Every essay, every book report or anything, we always had something to do with flying.

00:22:39.700 - 00:22:52.780

At that point in your life, who were your role models? My father. That's great. Going on into high school, how did your school change?

00:22:52.960 - 00:23:02.180

Did you now change classes? How was it different? Yes, we changed classes. The teacher and the subject stayed in the same room, but we changed classes.

00:23:03.240 - 00:23:25.100

In high school, what did you enjoy studying? I guess I liked science, and I loved Glee Club and music. I guess I liked math. Do you remember any teacher that stands out in your mind?

00:23:25.180 - 00:23:47.800

Yes, there was one teacher that was the math teacher, but he also taught ground school. And his name was Stout, Ernie Stout. And then we had, of course, I was at Home Ec, and my Home Ec teacher was named Mrs. Collins, and she was the one I think I learned most from and liked real well.

00:23:48.180 - 00:24:04.320

And then we had a music teacher, and I do not remember her name, but I enjoyed music very much, Glee Club and music. It is most unusual to have ground school classes in high school. This was not in high school.

00:24:04.580 - 00:24:26.040

This was after school at night. He taught it through the CPT program. I was not officially a part of the CPT, but I sat through the classes, monitored them, because they were being taught and he let me join them anyway.

00:24:26.200 - 00:24:44.520

Even though I was still in high school, he let me sit through the classes. But we had a junior college in our – and it was in the same high school. the same buildings, the same rooms and everything, and was taught by the regular high school teachers, but it was still a junior college, two-year junior college.

00:24:45.060 - 00:24:57.980

And it was through that that the wartime training programs, teaching pilots at the airport, it was through that program. What does CPT stand for? Civilian Pilot Training Program.

00:24:59.540 - 00:25:17.300

And in that program, one of the ten students, one could be a girl. And there were two ladies in town that did learn how to fly. And I guess I thought if they could, I could too. What were your social activities in high school?

00:25:18.740 - 00:25:56.040

Well, we had a rifle range that had been built by the CPC program. And they brought soldiers from Tinker Air Force Base down at this CCC camp and taught them rifle range. So we in town fixed up an empty building for a rec room for those boys.

00:25:56.260 - 00:26:13.600

So the high school girls went up there and learned to dance. We played records and danced and dated the boys. We also had a temporary skating rink that would come to town in the summer, and we'd skate.

00:26:15.300 - 00:26:29.020

I think there was a bowling alley, but I did not learn how to bowl. But mostly going to movies, too, a lot of movies. Did you have one special male friend in high school? No, I did not like him.

00:26:30.480 - 00:26:49.220

I think I was in competition with the guys. I wanted to do male things rather than female things. But I did know how to sew, and I made all my own clothes. I hated cooking, but there comes that role model dad again.

00:26:49.300 - 00:27:01.140

I wanted to be just like my dad. What kind of student were you? Oh, B, C. Describe Glee Club.

00:27:03.040 - 00:27:15.100

That was fun. lot of field trips and we put on a lot of programs around, you know, in town. I loved Glee Club. I loved to sing.

00:27:16.650 - 00:27:30.640

What kind of music do you really enjoy most? I like all music. I think mostly I like pops. In the Glee Club, did you have competition with other schools?

00:27:31.580 - 00:27:49.500

I remember we went to Stillwater for a choral festival one time. I do not remember that. We might have, but I do not remember it. Were you involved in any sports activities in high school?

00:27:50.060 - 00:28:06.320

No. Our principal did not like women to wear shorts, so he discontinued with the basketball team. I played basketball in seventh and eighth grade. But when he came to town, he cut out all basketball for girls.

00:28:07.890 - 00:28:23.160

How was your mom and dad involved in your high school? They were not. Mother was blind. Mother was not blind, but she was night blindness, handicapped in that way.

00:28:23.380 - 00:28:48.760

So she only attended when we kids could lead her to school and back. She had a condition called pigmented retinitis and retinopathy, and she was not able to do anything unless there was a lot of light. However, she did take care of the office at the shop and do all the paperwork, book work,

00:28:48.800 - 00:29:03.820

and so forth. Describe your high school prom. Well, the year that I was a junior, they allowed us to have a dance. Every other year you could have a prom dance.

00:29:06.620 - 00:29:19.280

But the year that I was a senior, there was no prom. How many were in your high school graduating class? About forty, thirty-five, forty. your graduation?

00:29:21.090 - 00:29:38.980

Well, it was held in the high school at the auditorium. We wore caps and gowns, and I got a new dress. And it was fun. After you graduated, what did you do that summer?

00:29:41.520 - 00:29:55.300

I worked at the airport and continued flying. And that summer was the year I got my private license. Let me ask you, describe the first time you went up in an airplane. What was that like?

00:29:55.460 - 00:30:10.640

By myself? No, with somebody. Well, my first flight I was eight years old, and I was in a Ford tri-motor. I enjoyed it.

00:30:11.160 - 00:30:22.120

I liked it. And I think that was a seal, the desire to want to fly, was from that flight on. What did your mother think about that? Mother didn't care.

00:30:22.280 - 00:30:36.600

She used to go with us. And when I finally got my permission to take my first ride, first airplane lesson, I went home that day and I said, "Mom, I had my first lesson." She says, "I knew you were sooner or later."

00:30:37.180 - 00:30:52.180

And how old were you? I was eighteen. In that first lesson, who was your instructor? A man named Gilbert Edwards.

00:30:54.090 - 00:31:05.900

Were there other girls also taking flying lessons when you started? No. I was the oddball. Tell me about just the first solo.

00:31:07.340 - 00:31:20.980

What kind of airplane were you in? It was a J-3 Cub, and it was very uneventful. I was just a little surprised at how quickly it got off the ground and how easy it handled with just me in there by myself.

00:31:21.740 - 00:31:36.420

It was wonderful. Get rid of that screaming instructor. And then you continued flying. What are your remembrances of when you heard about Pearl Harbor?

00:31:37.470 - 00:32:04.440

Well, see, this happened before I started learning. That was December 7th, and I didn't start learning until right after Christmas. My birthday is the 23rd of December, and my first flight was right about that same time. And what I remember about Pearl Harbor was that my cousin and I were coming with another

00:32:04.740 - 00:32:25.900

cousin to Tulsa to help them move, and we heard it on the car radio. We were driving to Tulsa from Wetunka. How did Pearl Harbor change your community, for example? Well everybody did what they could to help with the war effort, and of course all the

00:32:26.060 - 00:32:48.920

boys were suddenly my age were gone. But that's when, of course, we had the pilot training program still going on. And I don't know, I think our town was similar to all other towns. became a Red Cross person.

00:32:50.820 - 00:33:06.920

She could do all sorts of things during the day, but only at night she couldn't. And your job at the airport, describe that job. Well I got out there as early as I could in the morning, and I stayed until after the airplanes were all put away at night, dark thirty.

00:33:07.980 - 00:33:20.380

I was there all day long. I ran errands for them, whatever they had somebody that needed, something they needed from town, I did it. I helped gas airplanes, I helped start them.

00:33:23.500 - 00:33:48.200

Whatever was needed, if I knew how to do it, they treated me just like one of the guys. Levy: When did you first hear about the WASP training program and how? Stenstrom: Well, I was at the airport one day, and Lyle Boren, the local senator, was there visiting with the manager of the airport, and he called me over and told me about it.

00:33:49.300 - 00:34:10.340

By this time, I had quite a bit of time, and he said that I should look into it. Then it was right after that that that newspaper article about the two girls that you took the picture of, that came out in the Tulsa Tribune. It had Betty Smith's address in it.

00:34:10.400 - 00:34:28.660

So I wrote to her and asked her how I got into it. Well, at that point, I was still too young because I was only nineteen or eighteen and a half at that point, and so not quite nineteen. So I just had to put it on hold.

00:34:28.780 - 00:34:49.740

And then later I found out somehow that they had lowered the age limit. So I wrote in and asked about it, and I was made to wait a year because of quotas and my age, I suspect. But there were several in my class, there were about two in my class that were just

00:34:50.000 - 00:35:08.060

barely eighteen and a half. So by the time I got in, I was twenty. Kelly: As you were waiting, then you continued working at the airport? I continued working at the airport, I continued flying, I got my commercial license, and I

00:35:08.160 - 00:35:26.780

passed the written for the flight instructor rating before I got in. What kind of—did you fly other than the Piper Cub? Oh, yeah, I flew Aaronicas and Luscombe—no, I did not fly Luscombe. I flew Aaronicas, Taylor Crafts, whatever was on the airport.

00:35:27.230 - 00:35:41.780

I made sure I flew at them all. Did you do flying other than for just pleasure? Yeah, I used to go with my dad to—we had a satellite operation, and the airport had a satellite operation in Tahlequah.

00:35:42.800 - 00:36:03.680

And I used to go—the day that I took my private license flight test, I did it with an examiner in Tahlequah who had been a former instructor of mine. And his name was Bill Taylor, and he later became a test pilot for Culver. And Al Mooney, a real good friend of Al Mooney, and he's written and he's listed in Al Mooney's

00:36:03.800 - 00:36:18.960

books. And the day that we did—I went up there and took my private flight check. I came home with a propeller strap to the struts of the airplane and cylinders in the back seat of the airplane.

00:36:19.380 - 00:36:36.580

And Dad used to send me out to slow-time engines after he worked on them. He sent me out after he repaired an airplane. Quite often I was the person that flew it to make sure it was all all right after he fixed it.

00:36:37.840 - 00:37:01.260

What happened after you wrote and found out that you would be able to get in? I was told to come to Tulsa and take a test, which I did. And then I just waited. I was sent a list of requirements and so forth that we needed to have, clothing and so forth.

00:37:01.340 - 00:37:19.840

So I just waited until I got my assignment. I was assigned first to Class 445, and then I got a telegram telling me not to come, but to report 447. And then I got another telegram telling me to wait until class nine, 44-9.

00:37:21.300 - 00:37:37.380

So that's when I finally got in, was 44-9. But by that time a year had gone by. What were your expectations for that program? What did they tell you it was all about and what you would be doing if you successfully

00:37:37.520 - 00:37:44.720

completed it? They didn't really tell me much of anything. I just knew I'd fly bigger airplanes, and I figured I'd do whatever they told me to do.

00:37:45.780 - 00:37:52.700

I don't know that I knew. Did you have to take a physical? Oh, yes. I had to come to Tulsa and take a physical.

00:37:54.380 - 00:38:05.820

Was it a military base? Yes. I don't know whether it was here, but it was through the military, and I don't remember now where.

00:38:08.460 - 00:38:29.620

In your flying experience, before you joined the WASP, are there any outstanding incidents that you remember that stick out in your mind? Yes, there's one. I went out with—late in the day, we had a fellow show up at the airport that had a

00:38:29.720 - 00:38:41.580

private license and wanted to fly some. The boss sent me out with him to see if he knew what he was doing, that he'd be safe enough to fly. Of course, I had my commercial by this time.

00:38:44.240 - 00:39:08.180

So I went out with him, and while we were flying, the plexiglass in the overhead window came out. And evidently, a piece of it hit him in the head, and he became very upset and very agitated. And he wanted to shut the engines off.

00:39:10.140 - 00:39:19.880

And I could see that the engine was working fine, and there was no reason for shutting the engines off. And I said, "No." Well, the ignition switches were on the side.

00:39:21.300 - 00:39:34.280

He shut them off anyway. we had an emergency landing. The only field that was available so we could get in without power, where we were, was a cornfield.

00:39:35.320 - 00:39:56.140

So we landed across the crossroads in the cornfield and got it down just short of the fence and landed fine. We got out of the plane, and he was as nervous as he could be. He couldn't even hold a lighter still to light a cigarette.

00:39:57.380 - 00:40:08.980

And all of a sudden, they had seen us go in, so here they came from the airport. My dad looked at me and he says, "Sis, are you okay?" I said, "Yeah, I'm fine." He said, "Well, you know, you're going to have to fly it out.

00:40:09.080 - 00:40:20.460

This is a small field. Do you think you can?" And I said, "Yeah, I can do it." So I did a short field takeoff and took the airplane back to the field, got it on the

00:40:23.480 - 00:40:37.720

The man got in the car and came back to the field. When we got back, he took off. He was from Ada, so he left the field and went on. I did not get scared until I got the plane parked on the line and I realized what I had

00:40:37.720 - 00:40:46.420

done. That was the only really exciting experience I had. And in the WASP, I had nothing. Did you ever fly with that guy again?

00:40:47.160 - 00:41:00.400

We never saw him again. I do not know what happened to him. We never saw him again. Kelly: After you took your physical, did you have a personal interview with anyone from

00:41:00.500 - 00:41:08.980

the Wasp Organization? Diveney: Yes, Ethel Sheehy. I met her in Oklahoma City. I took the airplane and my mother and went to Oklahoma City, and I had a personal interview

00:41:09.040 - 00:41:19.540

with Mrs. Sheehy. Kelly: Okay, that is why we are going to stop and change tape. You are doing great. Stretch, want some water?

00:41:19.960 - 00:41:28.520

I'm going to have my water. My throat's a little dry. I'm letting this roll a little bit. So they don't end up...

00:41:29.540 - 00:41:49.080

Well, I hope I haven't told you anything that's offensive. I don't think we've interviewed anybody, except for Ruth Helm. She did it on her own, her parents were not interested. My dad, his favorite magazine was Popular Mechanics.

00:41:51.060 - 00:42:15.680

And then he also took the aviation publications, whatever they were at the time, I do not know, Flying or something, I asked for help. My father's philosophy in life was, "If you think you can do something, try it. If you get in trouble, ask for help."

00:42:15.800 - 00:42:30.800

He used that with all of us kids. He didn't make any difference between me and the boys. He sat me on a stool and a lathe and let me monitor the thickness of something. He was working just like he did the boys.

00:42:32.920 - 00:42:44.580

One day I had a problem with a propeller. I let an airplane get away from me. It hit a window. It broke out a window and it ruined a propeller.

00:42:45.220 - 00:42:57.500

I had to install the new propeller. Where was I? You were talking about your dad. Oh, my dad's philosophy.

00:42:58.300 - 00:43:21.400

He used that same philosophy with all the boys. My brother, Johnny, the one who died a couple of years ago, he wound up being a diesel. He went into the service and became a military mechanic. And after he got out, he was a mechanic for Navajo freight lines.

00:43:21.400 - 00:43:47.500

He was a diesel engine mechanic and big truck mechanic. And he did have some aviation desires, but he never followed through on that. But my other brother was an aircraft mechanic also. But he went with, as I said in my notes, he wound up being an A&P and was a mechanic for

00:43:47.720 - 00:43:54.020

American Airlines. Kelly: As much as your dad loved airplanes, why did he not learn to fly? Davidson: Well, he did. He did.

00:43:54.470 - 00:44:03.820

He did. Oh, yes. He became a pilot as soon as we got the airplane. The flight school was there in Oklahoma, in Wetumpka.

00:44:03.870 - 00:44:17.540

He did. He just didn't back in those earlier days. That was only a one-place airplane that he built, so there wasn't room for an instructor, too.

00:44:18.440 - 00:44:33.080

But he did, he was a very good pilot. He understood your desire. Oh, yes. In fact, my job, you asked about high school, my job all through high school was to come

00:44:33.080 - 00:44:47.760

to the shop, get my youngest brother, take him home, and take care of him until school was out, until Mom and Dad got home from the shop. Then when I started learning to fly, I still had to look after my youngest brother. So he was the passenger.

00:44:48.160 - 00:45:07.000

After I got my private license, he's the one that was always in the airplane with me. Now, Dad must have been awfully trusting of my abilities in order to let me have Jack in the plane with me all the time. I did not think anything about it at the time, but we just flew.

00:45:09.180 - 00:45:23.840

When I was out practicing Chandel's snap rolls, which I should not have done, but I did, Jack was in it with me. So he never learned to fly. He used to get sick, so Jack did not learn to fly, but he became a mechanic.

00:45:24.100 - 00:45:35.840

Did he come home and tell on you? Evidently. Probably. How were you notified that you had been accepted for training?

00:45:36.320 - 00:45:50.780

I got a letter saying to report for a class in Sweetwater. And take us through what happened then. And how did your mom feel about your leaving? She didn't think anything about it.

00:45:50.780 - 00:46:06.520

She knew it was coming and she accepted it. My mother was also very open-minded about a lot of things. So she did not stop me. I think there might have been a few tears, but they did not stop me.

00:46:06.620 - 00:46:22.480

Anything I wanted to do. Describe your trip to Sweetwater. Well, I had met Mary Woodward here in Tulsa when we were taking our written tests. So she and I went down on the train.

00:46:24.160 - 00:46:51.380

I came to Tulsa, and joined her. We were on a Pullman train and went to Dallas and to Sweetwater. We went right through my hometown on the way down. We stood in the open area between cars, and I pointed out my house to her as we went through

00:46:51.340 - 00:47:06.720

town. Anyway, we arrived in Sweetwater and got to the Blue Bonnet Hotel, which had a lot of other WASPs there when we arrived. And from there on, I'm sure the story is very much like everybody else's.

00:47:06.960 - 00:47:14.240

We wound up out at the base. Kelly: But this is your story. So you tell it the way you saw it. Beall: We went on out to the base.

00:47:14.800 - 00:47:25.520

Kelly: How did you get to the base? Beall: The cattle car came and picked us up. And I remember looking around at these other girls and thinking, "Oh my, what am I doing here?"

00:47:25.520 - 00:47:39.780

I did not know if I could, you know, they seemed so much older and more experienced than me, a lot of them, and yet there were some that were younger. But it was full of excitement. And when we saw the airplanes, oh boy.

00:47:41.520 - 00:47:50.820

Kelly: When you arrived at Sweetwater, did you know what the girls were doing who had already graduated? No. Okay.

00:47:51.640 - 00:48:10.840

No. When you got out to the air base, then describe what happened. Well, we were watching the planes fly around, and then they got us all in line and, of course, gave us the customary bedding and clothing and everything else, like showed us our barracks.

00:48:11.480 - 00:48:32.340

And we were in a barracks that where, when we arrived, there were eight of us to one room instead of six, because there were so many of us. There were a hundred and seven, and they were a little short on space. And there were eight of us, and when I went through that door and saw two potties and

00:48:32.420 - 00:48:45.120

two showerheads, and eight women in one room, and the next room eight more, I thought, "Oh Lord, how will we ever work it out? Sixteen people." But it soon worked out.

00:48:45.300 - 00:49:00.300

Describe your bay mates. Well, we had a girl that had been a cab driver in Kansas City. We had a nurse. We had a lady in our class that had been an interior decorator in Milwaukee.

00:49:05.040 - 00:49:30.420

I was one of the youngest ones, so we had teachers and nurses. We had another girl that had worked at an airport like me, so it was a lot of fun. I grew up in a hurry. Kelly: When you saw all those airplanes parked, what was that feeling like?

00:49:30.470 - 00:49:48.380

Litz: It was wonderful. I think that I'd actually get to fly one of them. Kelly: Take us through a typical day. Well, we got up early in the morning to Reveille and trying to fight for a position at the

00:49:48.620 - 00:50:05.160

sink. We only had two potties, that too was an experience. For a young girl who had never had much more than a small town in Oklahoma, it was quite an eye-opener.

00:50:08.580 - 00:50:24.020

We had—I'm not going to mention her name, but we had one girl that carried hundred dollar bills around in her pocket and used to throw them on the bed. I'd never seen that many hundred dollar bills in my life before. It was a shocker that she would be so careless with money.

00:50:26.440 - 00:50:42.600

We had—oh, it was just fun. I grew up in a hurry. Describe ground school. What subjects did you study in ground school?

00:50:42.700 - 00:51:11.680

Steele: Well, we had theory of flight, physics, later code, engines, airframes. I do not know. Did you particularly like one subject that you studied more than the rest? Dornstell: No, it was all intriguing.

00:51:11.830 - 00:51:24.220

Kelly: Okay. When you first started flying, describe your first solo and what kind of airplane were you flying. Dornstell: When I first started learning?

00:51:24.790 - 00:51:38.980

Kelly: At Avenger. Dornstell: At Avenger. I was flying the Stearman, and I had a wonderful instructor. I soloed after about eight hours in the Stearman.

00:51:39.940 - 00:51:59.020

I had a rather unusual experience the day I soloed. There were so many airplanes in the air all at once. I lined up, and then suddenly I realized that I was about to overtake someone. I moved over a little bit in order to have a clear area to be.

00:52:00.140 - 00:52:10.180

And when I did that, I was headed right straight for the Wintee. And I thought, "I can't land here. Look at all those other airplanes. Look at all those instructors and students."

00:52:10.180 - 00:52:27.160

So I pulled it up. And the instructor, meanwhile, everybody there but the Wintee, was looking at this cockeyed pilot that was so close to them. I went on around, I got back in traffic pattern, came back in, made sure that I was lined up

00:52:27.160 - 00:52:42.380

and everything was okay and landed. And when I taxied up to where my instructor was, he says, "Betty, what happened? What were you doing?" And I explained it to him, and he says, "Okay, go make a couple more landings."

00:52:42.380 - 00:52:54.740

So I did. But it scared everybody, them and me. I just knew I was going to get washed out. Describe your training as far as flying.

00:52:55.580 - 00:53:18.000

What kind of stages did you have in flying? Well, we had the Stearman, which was pretty much like what the flying I had done at home, only in a better airplane, of course. And then from Stearman's, we went to the 86 for a transition, and we flew the 86 through

00:53:21.320 - 00:53:40.900

necessary time in that. I think it was about eighty-five hours. And then we were taught instruments in the BT-13, also with time in a link. And then after we got through with instruments, then we were in cross-country phase.

00:53:41.620 - 00:54:08.220

And we were in the Stearman's for cross-country, short cross-countries, and the 86s for long cross-country, and then the BT for short instrument cross-countries. Levy: While you were in training in the Stearman, did all of your classmates, all of your baymates, make it through primary?

00:54:08.380 - 00:54:28.160

Stenstrom: No, we had several who didn't. In fact, our class was about half when we finished. We watched, there were about half of them left. We lost a girl in primary because we were issued a rather ragged-sleeved leather jacket,

00:54:29.420 - 00:54:58.120

and they were real good at hanging on the seatbelt and unlatching your seatbelt. One of our students went out and the instructor turned the airplane upside down and she fell out because her sleeve had caught on the latch and had unlatched her seat belt. And so she parachuted to safety and she resigned.

00:54:58.310 - 00:55:18.360

The minute she got back to the field, it scared her so bad that she resigned. We had that happen to another one of our students, but she held on until they rided the plane, until the instructor finally righted the plane, and she was all right. But let's see.

00:55:19.110 - 00:55:36.860

Kelly: In your bay. Beall: In my bay, we lost one girl that felt like she didn't have the experience, and she resigned. She just didn't feel like she had made a lump.

00:55:37.020 - 00:55:51.580

She resigned and went home. You felt like she just had not had enough background to do it. And that is about it. I think we pretty much stayed.

00:55:54.880 - 00:56:03.680

I think we only had a couple. Kelly: The other seven of you all graduated? That is most unusual, right? I do not remember.

00:56:07.040 - 00:56:32.180

I think we pretty much stayed together all the way through. You described the auxiliary field. They were just wheat fields or fields, grassy fields, and they were just squares with a Winty in the middle, and we flew over there and wherever we landed on them, they were

00:56:32.280 - 00:56:52.280

just grassy fields. What was your idea of what would happen to you after you graduated? What did you think would happen? I do not know that I thought about that.

00:56:53.100 - 00:57:10.320

As far as military status, what were your thoughts? Levy-Angersell: Well, I just figured we'd be in and we'd be part of the military, and we'd just go on flying, do whatever they told us to do. Kelly: When you went from the Stearman to the AT-6, describe your solo in the AT-6.

00:57:10.670 - 00:57:27.840

Levy-Angersell: Oh, that was great. That was really great. Me in control of this great big airplane, get rid of that instructor, that was great. And then instrument training, how did you do an instrument training?

00:57:28.120 - 00:57:48.960

I had trouble with instrument training. I could fly the airplane, but I was—I had trouble with understanding. The instructor that they gave me was a new instrument flight instructor, and I don't think he was giving me clear instructions, because they came—when I came down one day,

00:57:49.100 - 00:58:01.280

why the guy in charge of training called me over and he said, "Betty, what's the matter? You've been doing so well. What's the matter now?" And he double-checked me, because Mr. Brees had not had students before.

00:58:02.820 - 00:58:17.860

So he explained what the procedures were, step by step. And once I got it in my head what he was trying to tell me, then I didn't have any trouble. I got okay after that. But I did have trouble at first.

00:58:20.680 - 00:58:41.920

What did you do with that time off? Well the first pass I got, time off I had, Daddy flew down and got me. I came home, and I was home for a three-day pass. And the second one that I had was, we went to Abilene and rented a hotel room, three

00:58:41.950 - 00:58:58.600

of us did. We were dating boys from Abilene, the P-47 pilots at the time. And we went to—they took us out to the base and showed us that wonderful P-47. And I fell in love with that airplane and wanted to fly it, but I never had a chance.

00:58:59.880 - 00:59:18.000

But that was only one night, I think, that we were over there. And went back to Alice—back to Sweetwater. Then on your cross-countries, where did you go? Did anything unusual happen on the plane?

00:59:18.000 - 00:59:39.240

Steele: No, not really. I was solo in a T-6. Our cross-country, the long one, was to New Mexico and then north to Denver, and then to Kansas.

00:59:39.620 - 01:00:03.880

We were at—I can't remember the name, but anyway, we spent overnight in Lincoln, Nebraska, and then spent overnight in DuMont, Iowa, and back home to Sweetwater, I mean. While you were in training, each month a class would graduate. Describe what would happen on graduation day.

01:00:04.300 - 01:00:20.920

Well, we would march in formation, and we would be at the graduation ceremony and sing songs. And I remember your graduation. That was my first.

01:00:22.660 - 01:00:40.100

And I remember we had just learned how to march, and I was out there in all that Texas heat and sun and marching. Since you love music so much, describe what would happen when you would march. We would sing very raucous songs.

01:00:41.030 - 01:00:46.980

It was a lot of fun. What was your favorite song? Do you recall? Will I say it?

01:00:47.540 - 01:01:02.140

I think "Zoot Suits." And what is a zoot suit? It's mechanic coveralls, which were two sizes too big, but we tied the belt together in front and wore those for flying and ground school and everything else.

01:01:06.010 - 01:01:30.620

Tell me about how you felt when you got your new uniforms and when did you get a new uniform? We got our uniforms just before we went on our long cross-countries, I believe. And I was so proud. They were wonderful, and equally more so when I got my wings.

01:01:32.080 - 01:01:49.760

Did you get to wear the new uniforms before you graduated? We had them about a couple of weeks, I think, before. Describe graduation. Well, my parents came down.

01:01:49.880 - 01:02:18.480

My aunt was there. My brothers were there. We had a party at the Avenger Club in town before graduation. I remember that Cochran gave me my wings, and we were all talking to her afterwards,

01:02:18.960 - 01:02:33.760

and she wanted to know if I wanted her to pin my wings on. I apologized and said no, I was saving that honor for my father. She pulled her hand back real quick and says, "By all means, let your father do it." So my father pinned my wings on.

01:02:36.300 - 01:02:48.120

When did you get your orders? Then immediately. We were sent to Altus Air Force Base, Kay Klinecke and I from my class. What had you requested?

01:02:49.380 - 01:03:09.360

My request was not to be too far away from home, because I knew that we were going to be deactivated, or I felt like we were. And I didn't want to be stuck in some faraway place trying to get home. So I didn't ask for a plane base, I just asked for a close-by base.

01:03:09.880 - 01:03:23.860

And that's when they sent me to Altus. I went home, my dad and mom. I drove home with my dad and mom. And when I got to Wetumpka, I was given three days, I think, to report.

01:03:25.560 - 01:03:38.980

And I wondered how I was going to get to Altus, because that's halfway across the state, or all the way across the state from where I grew up. And Daddy says, "We've got that problem solved." He put me in an airplane that I'd never seen before.

01:03:39.200 - 01:03:54.020

I think it was a Gullwing Waco or a Stinson or something, I don't remember for sure what. It was five passenger, and I took that airplane to Mangum, Oklahoma, and delivered it to the airport there.

01:03:54.690 - 01:04:11.560

I never landed, and I never took off. He said, "You've been flying A-26s, you can fly this thing." He just showed me what I needed to know, and it had a—the brake was a level. You pushed in the top like an old car brake and pulled it up.

01:04:12.340 - 01:04:27.620

And I thought, "God, do I want to touch that thing?" So when I got to Mangum, I went around and made a pass on the field, not knowing how this thing was going to land. And I didn't land the first time.

01:04:28.320 - 01:04:43.360

Came back in, brought it over just over the fence, and dropped it in. And I let it run almost its full course before I touched that break. I landed it three points, no problem. But it was a big airplane.

01:04:44.680 - 01:05:04.560

How did you get from Mangan to Altus? One of the guys at the airport lived in Altus, so I went by pickup truck and delivered to Altus Air Force Base by one of the fellows at the airport. So they had it all worked out for me.

01:05:05.060 - 01:05:18.880

I got there and they took one look at me in this truck and pointed me toward the hospital, which is where we were. We had a wing of the hospital as a WASP barracks. Nancy, you need to stop.

01:05:20.200 - 01:05:46.240

Flew the airplane to Mangum and got a pickup ride to Altus. Let me back up just a minute and ask you, how you met these pilots from Big Springs? Oh, they came to our adventure party. We had that club down there, Adventure Club downtown, and they were there and we were

01:05:46.240 - 01:05:55.120

dancing with them. That is how we met them. Did you meet anybody special? There was one fellow that I did, yes.

01:05:55.780 - 01:06:10.680

I wrote to him all the time that he was in Italy. He did get home. I just found this out last week that he did come home from Italy. And he was a fighter pilot, did all kinds of war work.

01:06:11.780 - 01:06:28.940

And he was from New York. And I just found out through another fellow, through this talk we did the other day, a fellow here in town was down there at the same time. And apparently he's tried to tell me all the years I've been here that he knew me then.

01:06:29.220 - 01:06:49.560

Well, I finally put – something triggered a memory, the wasp tape we showed or something. And evidently, he was part of that group, but I did not know him then, other than just to say hello. But anyway, this guy got back from Europe, but I never did hear from him anymore.

01:06:49.780 - 01:06:58.100

By that time, I was married. (Laughter) Okay, so you went on a truck up to Altus. Got to Altus and checked in.

01:06:58.360 - 01:07:08.100

checked in and then where did you live while you were there? We lived in the psychiatric ward of the hospital. They had made us a base out of that. There were eight of us there.

01:07:09.240 - 01:07:26.080

And we were housed in the nurse's quarters of the psychiatric ward. To whom did you report? Ruth Wheeler was our director, was there on the base. She was the one.

01:07:26.280 - 01:07:41.760

And then we were at base flight on the flight line, and that's when we were assigned to do testing and checking the airplanes after they had been repaired. And I did have one cross country while I was there. I flew into Tinker Air Force Base.

01:07:42.990 - 01:07:58.960

On your testing, what did that consist of? Slow timing engines that had been repaired. One of the flights was they had recovered all the tail, all the fabric-colored covered tail services and ailerons, and I had to be sure they were, I took it out and flew it

01:07:58.980 - 01:08:10.360

to be sure they were hooked up right. What kind of airplanes did you fly? It was UC-78, a twin-engine Cessna, better known as the Bobcat. How did you get checked out in that Cessna?

01:08:10.720 - 01:08:19.440

Ruth Wheeler flew with me for a few hours and checked me out. Did you have to have extra ground school? No. No, okay.

01:08:21.200 - 01:08:37.880

On the one cross-country you did, what was that for? I went with a returned B-17 pilot. He wanted to go up to Tinker to do some business, and he was trying to get a change of base. He hated Altus.

01:08:37.880 - 01:08:56.440

He did not like flying those little paper cubs, he called them. He wanted to get back in B-17s. We went to Tinker and he applied for a transfer. That was over the Thanksgiving holiday, and so we had Thanksgiving dinner that year with

01:08:56.840 - 01:09:09.720

my grandmother's sister and aunt. Kelly: So you had some time off at Thanksgiving? Davis: Just that day, just Thanksgiving day. We flew up on the day before, and then Thanksgiving day he stayed out at the Officer's Club,

01:09:09.800 - 01:09:27.020

and I stayed with my aunt and uncle. And then we had dinner and then went on back to Aldis the next day. What was your social life like at Altus? Officers Club, lunch, we ate all of our meals at the Officers Club.

01:09:28.060 - 01:09:41.560

We rarely left the base because there wasn't too much to do in Altus itself. Maybe go to the beauty shop, but that was it. Describe some of the activities you did at the Officers Club. Singing, piano.

01:09:42.220 - 01:09:59.280

That you have pictures of. Well, I have pictures of pool, I have pictures of bowling, which I did not do, and I have pictures of singing, a group of us singing. Kelly: Why would you be interested in bowling?

01:10:00.380 - 01:10:09.720

Davis: I had never been exposed to it before. It was a little different. Kelly: Did you meet anybody special at Altus? Davis: No.

01:10:10.320 - 01:10:25.620

No, we were only there six weeks. We were just friendly with everybody. Do you remember your reactions when you heard that the WASP would be deactivated? I was very sad, very disappointed that after all that hard work that we were not going

01:10:25.720 - 01:10:40.940

to be able to continue flying them, flying those pretty airplanes. What did they offer you when you got out? Nothing. I did not even get transportation home.

01:10:41.660 - 01:10:53.940

I rode a bus from Altus to Oklahoma City. I got to Oklahoma City and then went home with my aunt and uncle when they went down for Christmas. And I had about a dollar seventy-five or so left when I got home.

01:10:54.040 - 01:11:04.620

I was – no money. While you were at Altus, there were other WASP stations there. Yes. Do you remember one specific WASP and what was special about her?

01:11:06.320 - 01:11:28.000

Well, they were all special, but there's one in particular that I was friendly with. Her name was Anita, and she became a nun after. We were talking one day, and she told me, I said, "We were all talking about what we were going to do when we got out."

01:11:28.040 - 01:11:49.280

She said that she thought she would become a nun. This surprised me a little because most girls of our age were interested in marriage and children and families, but this was her goal. And Ruth Wheeler, she went back to Dallas and married her fiancé.

01:11:50.940 - 01:12:21.620

And Kay Klinecke was another one that had a different direction in her life. I do not know that she had it when we were in the Wasp, but she wound up in Europe and lived over there buying and selling antiques for a dealer in Texas. One of the girls went to the Seattle area and married a doctor, became a doctor's

01:12:21.960 - 01:12:32.060

wife. I lost track of the others. I do not know what they did. What is your opinion of why the WASPs were deactivated?

01:12:32.700 - 01:12:55.160

I think it was politics. I think it was pure and simple. They couldn't have us in the service the way they wanted us, so they sent us home. What do you feel that your experience as a WASP taught you?

01:13:00.960 - 01:13:23.920

Steele: Well, I do not know. It taught me that if you really want something, go after it and get it. And I really wanted to fly those beautiful airplanes. And I had a lot of friends.

01:13:25.360 - 01:13:41.860

It showed me there was a whole wide world out there beyond the one that I had known as a child. Once you were disbanded, did the base do anything special for the Wasp? Well, no.

01:13:42.200 - 01:13:54.880

We had a private party ourselves in our area where we lived. We had a big room with a couple of picnic tables, and we had a party for the people that we worked with. We cooked a meal for them.

01:13:58.440 - 01:14:07.440

But the base itself did not do anything for us. They just gave us papers and sent us home. Kelly: So you paid for your own going away home? Davidson: Paid for my own transportation home.

01:14:09.600 - 01:14:27.520

I do not even remember how we got to the base to the bus station. Kelly: And from Altus, you went back home? Beall: I went back home, and I stayed home for a while. And of course, there were not that many student pilots around.

01:14:27.620 - 01:14:35.600

I got my flight instructor's rating. I went up and took the flight test for it. I had not done that before, so I got that. Kelly: What did you take that on?

01:14:35.640 - 01:14:53.960

I am sorry. I took it on a J-3 Cub here in Tulsa, out at Commercial Field. And then I went to Oklahoma City and talked to the examiner up there and got my twin engine rating by the fact that I had flown twin engines in the service.

01:14:56.100 - 01:15:19.180

And then I went to work for Douglas for about six months until the end of the war. Okay, describe your job at Douglas. I was an inspector on the 826 tail section, rivets of all things, and brackets and things, blueprint reading and that kind of thing for the 826 tail section.

01:15:20.260 - 01:15:34.700

Where was Douglas located? This was in Oklahoma City. Previously the WASP, I had worked for Tulsa, at Douglas and Tulsa. So when I got out, I decided I wanted to try Oklahoma City, so I went to Douglas there.

01:15:35.680 - 01:15:59.340

Before the WASP, when you worked for Douglas, what was your job? I was an installer of parts that had been on the final line just before it left the factory, of different things that had been skipped when it was going through the line. So I did all sorts of things.

01:16:00.540 - 01:16:13.940

When you went to Douglas and Oklahoma City, how were you treated? Steele: Fine. Were the people around you aware of what you had been doing? Steele: Not too much, no.

01:16:15.460 - 01:16:23.160

Not too much. You stayed with Douglas how long? Steele: Six months. Then why did you leave Douglas?

01:16:23.430 - 01:16:35.760

Steele: Well, the war ended and they let everybody go. They sent you home. We went to work one day and we were given our checks and told that we were through. There was no longer a need for us.

01:16:37.680 - 01:16:50.520

So I went home again. Kelly: And how did your mom feel about that? Davidson: Well, I think she's kind of glad to have me. And a couple of days later, are you ready for this?

01:16:50.540 - 01:17:09.800

A couple of days later, I got a telephone call from a friend of my dad's, wanting to know if I had my instructor's rating. I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, I need someone like you for a job in South Texas."

01:17:09.800 - 01:17:31.780

So I said, "Okay," and I packed my bags and I got on a bus and I went to Alice, Texas. I lived in a motel room and I worked as secretary, flight instructor for the airport at Dallas Canali Flying Service. I taught students.

01:17:32.640 - 01:17:58.700

I took parts from one of the trips I remember, it stands out. I flew a PT-19 with the owner of the airplane and a truck tire to where I was flying for the airport operator there. Were there other girls flying also with you?

01:17:58.800 - 01:18:08.860

Maxine was there. She was flying for an oil company, and she had had the job that I had prior to my taking it. And Anne White was there, but she was not flying.

01:18:12.360 - 01:18:49.880

Where did you live in Alice? I lived first in a motel, and then later I lived with my friends. They bought a house, and I occupied one of the bedrooms in their house. And I told you about taking the truck tire with the PT-19 to a scraped-out strip where

01:18:49.880 - 01:19:06.460

they were building a tank, an oil-filled storage tank, and found it just a few miles short of the Mexican border. Took him down there, delivered the tire, and brought him back. That was an interesting trip.

01:19:08.740 - 01:19:28.160

Another time I went to— Why was that interesting? Because it was trying to find a spot on a road map, not a runway. Another trip that stands out in mind was that I flew a mechanic over to Laredo one time

01:19:28.140 - 01:19:44.800

to pick up an airplane they had bought. And on the way back, after we got started, he turned around and went back to Laredo, because the airplane was acting up and he wasn't about to fly it. We were running out of daylight, but we wound up going back to Alice.

01:19:45.820 - 01:20:02.840

I used the light line to find the airport. Of course, they had runway lights on, and I landed and brought him back. We got back, but it was almost dark when we got back. That was another trip that stands out.

01:20:05.680 - 01:20:22.740

I had several students that I soloed, and I had two forced landings while I was down there. One was due to carburetor ice, and the other one was due to a sticky throttle. I was down there for a couple of years.

01:20:23.080 - 01:20:33.940

Where were these forced landings? Were you able to land back at the base? No, I landed in just fields and started the airplane and took off and went back again. Got back to the airport again.

01:20:35.250 - 01:20:55.020

You know, our training in Sweetwater taught us a lot. So those were interesting trips, interesting flights. What did you do for social activities while you were in Atlas? Well, there was one guy that was a returned P-51 pilot from the war.

01:20:55.440 - 01:21:18.780

I dated him for a while, and I married him and divorced him. They had a baby, so my daughter, I had her. And then I got disenchanted with the whole operation. They were converting—oh, I did a lot of going over to Odessa, Midland, and picking

01:21:18.920 - 01:21:36.400

up BT-13s and bringing them back to Alice, and Stearman's and bringing them back. They were converting to duster sprayers. They were making waves like they wanted me to be a spray pilot, and I didn't want to be a spray pilot.

01:21:36.600 - 01:21:59.380

So I left down there and came home. After I got a divorce from Susan's father, I wound up working. By that time, I was working down at—the same guy that I had worked for before the war had the operation at Ocmulgee.

01:22:01.200 - 01:22:15.860

So I was flying for there and instructing for him. These were students there, and we took two through the junior college that were on GI Bill. So I flew some with them.

01:22:16.880 - 01:22:30.580

And then I met my husband-to-be, because he was one of the instructors at Ocmulgee, and we got married. And that kind of stopped my flying career for a while. Tell me, oh she's not going to be able to tell me that fast.

01:22:31.670 - 01:22:37.760

Change the tape. Okay. Think about it. I want to know the qualities you saw in him that made you fall in love.

01:22:38.360 - 01:22:43.560

Oh. Tell me the qualities about this. Qualities that I saw in Howard? Uh-huh.

01:22:43.820 - 01:22:57.400

Well, he was honest and he was, he'd grown up in Baxter Springs, Kansas and had a lot of the same family backgrounds that I had. And we just clicked. And was he a pilot?

01:22:57.740 - 01:23:19.360

Yes, he was instructor for Bill George down at Ocmulgee, and I was flying there too. And then I only knew the man two and a half months when I married him. I must have saw something I liked. And eventually we moved to Illinois, and he became a pilot for the airport there.

01:23:20.080 - 01:23:42.380

And then he got a job working for Sunstream Corporation, which was a machine tool manufacturing company there. And he became one of three pilots, and he was made chief pilot. And then eventually he ran the whole flight department, which consisted of, oh, at different

01:23:42.460 - 01:23:56.400

times, different airplanes. At one time, five airplanes. And hired and fired pilots. When I was his right arm, I did all the errands and things that he needed that had to be done

01:23:56.500 - 01:24:08.500

to help him. In the meantime, did you have other children? We had Steve, after Howard and I were married, we had Steve. And then thirteen years later, I had Dan.

01:24:10.600 - 01:24:23.020

That's starting over. That's a lot of PTA. Yes. Tell me about some of your children's activities that you participated in or that you attended.

01:24:23.020 - 01:24:40.660

Well, Susan was a scout. I was a scout leader, helped her with scouts. And then Steve was just one of these kids that was into all sorts of things. He was accident prone, seemed like I was running to the emergency room all the time with that

01:24:40.720 - 01:24:51.160

one. But after he grew up, he became a helicopter pilot and went to Vietnam. And he got back okay. His unit was brought back.

01:24:55.060 - 01:25:14.320

But Dan was—he wound up in the Air Force and was a mechanic working on propellers, engines and propellers. How did you feel when your two sons joined the service? Well, I was happy, but I was sad, too.

01:25:15.760 - 01:25:35.660

Because during when Steve joined, it was wartime, and I was concerned about his safety. But when Dan joined, of course, it was peacetime, but they promptly sent him to Guam. And there's an interesting story with that. When he was over in Guam, he was riding a motorcycle, and the road ended and he didn't.

01:25:36.700 - 01:25:54.800

He broke his leg. He was in the hospital. So when I finally got the Red Cross notice that he was in the hospital over there with a broken leg, I wrote a WASP who lived in Guam and asked her to go check on my son and

01:25:54.880 - 01:26:03.380

see if he was all right. I didn't know who she was. She didn't know me. She went over to the hospital and they became great friends, Mary Chappell.

01:26:05.880 - 01:26:15.780

I think I'm right on that one. But anyway, no, that's wrong. I'm thinking of another wife. Anyway, she checked on my son and reported back to me.

01:26:16.820 - 01:26:27.920

I didn't have to go to Guam, so we do have a sisterhood. How long then did you live there? Did I live in Illinois? Uh-huh.

01:26:28.700 - 01:26:41.880

years. And he was with that same company, my husband was, for twenty-six and a half years until he retired. While you were there, then, did all three of your children leave home?

01:26:42.790 - 01:27:07.920

Yes. Susan went to school at Northern Illinois and became a—she took medical courses. And eventually, right now, she's working for a group of cardiology doctors. And my son Steve was still with Sunstrand, which incidentally has been bought out by

01:27:08.140 - 01:27:29.600

Hamilton or has merged with Hamilton. And so it's Hamilton-Sunstrand. And Steve is a service rep here in town with American Airlines for Hamilton Sunstrand. And Dan didn't go, we left Illinois before Dan left home.

01:27:29.720 - 01:27:40.900

We moved to Oklahoma and it was after we moved to Oklahoma that he finished high school and then went into the Air Force. Okay. Why did you move back to Oklahoma?

01:27:41.420 - 01:27:47.400

Because we had grown up here and we have a lot of family here. Did your husband retire? Yes. Yes.

01:27:48.840 - 01:27:57.140

And once you came back home and your children were gone from home, then how did you spend your time? We traveled. Okay.

01:27:59.160 - 01:28:10.160

And then did you get a hobby? My painting was done when I lived in Illinois. Well he was gone a lot. His job took him out of town for four or five days at a time.

01:28:10.980 - 01:28:26.600

And after Dan got in high school, I did not know what else to do with myself, I took art lessons at Rock Valley College in Rockford with another girl and I, and we took painting classes. We took painting classes from there as well as the YW.

01:28:28.540 - 01:28:38.100

So I got to be pretty good at it. In fact, I sold a few. But then after I came down here, I had lost my buddy. She stayed up there and I did not.

01:28:38.880 - 01:28:51.900

And so I haven't done too many. That one is one that I've done since I've been back. And I had a friend who was painting, a high school friend, and she and I got together and we did a lot of painting too, but she died.

01:28:52.400 - 01:29:06.520

So now my painting buddies are gone. So I'm not active now. And here in Oklahoma now, what are your hobbies or how do you spend your time? I do aerobics at the Y.

01:29:06.720 - 01:29:22.460

I mean at the health club, St. John's Health Club. And go out to lunch with my friends and we WASP here, get together once or twice, at least once a month. And I spent, I run back and forth seeing all my kids.

01:29:23.630 - 01:29:47.500

Let me back up just a minute and I know you've been active with the WASP organization. Tell me some of the things that you have done. I attended a lot of the memorial dedications when they dedicated the statues. I was district director for Region 2 for two years, and during that time I was asked to

01:29:47.580 - 01:30:10.080

take on stores, so I wound up helping with stores for four years. I still attend meetings and conventions and whatever, but I do not have an active job right now. That we're forever being asked, we local girls seem to be putting on programs for groups

01:30:10.140 - 01:30:27.460

around town. We did a program for Angel Flight in Oklahoma City, and we've done programs for some of the schools, and some of the pilots groups. We did a program for the 8th Air Force Group, and we seem to be in demand doing things like

01:30:27.580 - 01:30:41.480

that. What do you think the WASP accomplished? I think we proved that women could do far more than what we were given opportunities to do before.

01:30:42.600 - 01:31:05.980

They discovered that we could handle those airplanes, and they discovered that—I think Women have proved themselves, and the WASP in particular, because we've got a can-do spirit. And evidently, because of us, they've got girls in the military now.

01:31:07.060 - 01:31:34.860

And I had a strange experience happen to me. This last program we did, a man came up to me and he said, "I want to hug a true hero." And I said, "I'm no hero." He said, "Oh, yes you are."

01:31:34.860 - 01:31:50.740

And so I said, "Well, okay, I'll never turn down a hug." It turned out he was an airplane pilot in Vietnam. He did not fly helicopters, he flew planes. I looked over him and I said, "You are a hero."

01:31:50.740 - 01:32:04.260

I said, "I want a hug from a hero too." So that was just a little side thing that happened. I was in a Veterans Day parade one day. I was on the reviewing stand at Veterans Day.

01:32:06.620 - 01:32:24.080

We had people come up to us and thank us for being in the WASP, thank us for what we did. And you know, at the time we did all this, we were just happy to be doing it, just wanting to fly, do what we could to help the war. And how do you think we did help the war effort?

01:32:24.860 - 01:32:47.220

Oh, I think we helped a lot because what we did released pilots to go overseas. And it's too bad it didn't last longer on our part. We could have done more, but I guess the need wasn't there anymore. What is your personal opinion of Jacqueline Cochran?

01:32:48.060 - 01:33:13.060

I thought she was a wonderful person, a real fighter for women's rights. And as far as this organization, what was her importance? Without her, we would not have been an organization. Kelly: Betty, as you look back over your life, everyone has good times and bad times and

01:33:13.340 - 01:33:26.300

sad times and glad times. What got you through the sad times? Beall: Well, my faith in the Lord, definitely. In fact, He was my helper when I had those forced landings, too.

01:33:28.320 - 01:33:50.340

him I don't know that it would have turned out the way it was. There was always a prayer went on and there were in the time that I was heading toward the Winty, "Oh Lord help me get through out of this mess." And he did. In fact he came to me in the voice of my father. It said to me, "Now sis, be careful. Let's

01:33:50.420 - 01:34:16.400

don't mess it up now." And I don't think that was my father talking to me. As you look back over your life, what is the one thing that you're most proud of? Having finished the program, of course I'm proud of my three kids, too. I'm proud of their accomplishments in life, and I'm proud that my husband could accomplish

01:34:16.560 - 01:34:35.620

what he did in his life, too. I felt like I was the one behind pushing. Encouraging, I guess, is a better word. In looking toward the future, when children fifty years from now, or your great-grandchildren,

01:34:36.380 - 01:34:56.660

are watching you on this tape, what would you like to say to those people that might encourage them to reach for something that they think might be impossible? The same thing my dad said to me, "If you think you can do it, try it. If you need help, ask."

01:34:59.340 - 01:35:06.020

That was his philosophy. His philosophy. Is that yours? I would pass that along to my children too.

01:35:09.320 - 01:35:33.060

What do you feel the legacy of the WASP will be? I think it will be an inspiration to young women of the future and young people of all, young women and boys too, men. Because the men will get from it, "Well, if a girl can do it, I can do it."

01:35:33.060 - 01:35:55.340

And the girl can get from it, "If they did it, we can." What do you think your legacy will be? Well, I've tried to live my life the best I could, and I hope I leave behind some good feelings and some love, a lot of love.

01:36:01.160 - 01:36:26.940

I hope my life has been a success and a model for somebody else to—I hope I have been a good person. Is there anything that I have left out of your life that you would like to tell us about? Is there anything that you would like to say to future generations, or anything that you

01:36:26.940 - 01:36:36.160

would like to talk about? No, not really. I think we've covered everything. You've been a joy.

01:36:37.540 - 01:36:45.880

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, now I need to ask. Do you have a favorite word?

01:36:47.820 - 01:37:01.720

What do you know? A bit of surprise when something works, okay. Kelly: Okay, what turns you on now? What makes you excited?

01:37:02.260 - 01:37:09.880

What gets you— Steele: Being with friends and family. Kelly: Grandchildren? Steele: Oh, yes, definitely.

01:37:10.360 - 01:37:27.520

I'm looking forward to having my three little boys up here when I get back from Illinois. And I love calling Kimmy and saying, "Oh, hi, Grandma." And Kelly. I enjoy all my grandkids, and I enjoy the hugs that I get from them.

01:37:30.340 - 01:37:37.060

And I've been very blessed. Kelly: Indeed. Steele: Very blessed. Kelly: Indeed.

01:37:38.600 - 01:37:41.680

Okay. All right. We'll think of something in the car, baby. That's a wrap.

01:37:41.680 - 01:37:47.160

Steele: I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will. Kelly: We will think of something in the car. - And you will think of something that,

01:37:47.220 - 01:37:54.140

well, I didn't ask you. - Well, and we wouldn't have known about the paintings if I hadn't looked over there and seen your name on it. At least I was paying attention.

01:37:54.880 - 01:38:01.080

- Put it in a blue frame. Oh, the frame's lovely. It really is. It just sets it off.

01:38:01.820 - 01:38:14.520

No, I didn't do these two on the wall here. - Did you have any idea that you were talented? - I just used to draw in the margins of my house. So I just wanted to take lessons,

01:38:14.680 - 01:38:27.140

And I talked to my friend, Lenna, one day and I said, "You know what I want to do?" She said, "What?" I said, "I'd like to take some oil painting lessons." She says, "Oh, good!" She'd had some, so we went together and started doing that.

01:38:27.740 - 01:38:36.220

How neat! A particular place I even wrote down on the tape when it was when she just really smiles. Oh, okay. That's going to make a great picture.